Casting for a 470 Nitro Express

[TedH]

By a great stroke of luck, I recently became the proud owner of a new Krieghoff double rifle in 470 NE. It's a beauty of a rifle, but I just can't bring myself to spend the money for a box of factory ammo. The cheap stuff can be found for $275-$300/ 20 rounds. If I'm going to be able to shoot this thing at all, it's going to have to be fed with cast boolits. I'm not finding much in the way of molds and load data. Anyone with experience to share would be great.

[mstarling]

Ted,

I use a 500 grain bullet from a custom mold made by Ballisti-cast. Regulates in my Searcy using 45 gr of XMR 5744. I use Lar45's Carnauba Red lube and it gives me essentially no metal fouling. Accuracy has also been excellent with some single barrel groups being a ragged hole at 100 yards. Is a great practice bullet.

Have hunted it with 85 gr of RL-15.

I also load for the .375 H&H and the .458 AR. Here are the bullets:

http://216.122.235.44/Album/Castbullets.jpg

Not shown is a bullet I make for the 9,3 x 62 and 9,3 x 74R.

Hope this helps some.

Mike

[Beaverhunter2]

Sorry- don't have experience, but while cruising the 'net today I saw some info on .470 NE on ammoguide.com. It said .470NE used a .475 boolit so the molds that fit .480 Ruger and .475 Linebaugh should get you started. Lee and RCBS both make 400gr PB models. Lee also makes a 325gr GC. Probably need "Load from a Disk" to get your powder charges, though.

I was going to say "Good Luck" but it's obvious you already have plenty! :-D

Have fun!

John

[mstarling]

John,

The problem is not that there are not lots of .475-.476 bullets available. Double rifles are regulated (that is the barrels are soldered together in such a way) that they group rounds from the pair of barrels ... without crossing ... close to each other at a specific distance. This is usually 50 yards. The weight (and to a lesser extent the shape) of the bullets used are important as they affect how the rifle regulates.

Finding bullet weight near the jacketed bullet for which the rifle was originally regulated that has a shape that works and can be driven with the same bore residence time ... is just a bit of magic and good fortune.

mike

[TedH]

Thanks for the info Mike. Mine was regulated with Federal 500 gr. ammo. I had considered a mold for a 480 Ruger but figured it would shoot too far from point of aim. I can't find any reasonably priced brass or dies right now anyway. Every place is out of stock. I talked to the good folks at Hornady and they are going to have brass and bullets available later this year. Hopefully they will make some dies that are priced normally too. I just don't see why everything for this cartridge has to be 10X the price of the everyday cartridges. I'm sure it cost's a little more to make the stuff on a limited run, but come on, $300 for 20 rounds of ammo? Gimme a break.

[mstarling]

Ted,

Is an RCBS die set on http://www.accuratereloading.com which is a board you want to join! CH4D also makes dies ... they are cheaper, but required being cleaned up in a lathe.

Brass is a problem right now. The usual suppliers are expensive (Normal, Federal). Jamison International (who bought out BeLL) is buried in military orders at the moment. Hornady is supposed to be coming out with ammo and brass. Should be "less expensive" than Norma, but don't expect miracles.

Drop me a note on e-mail if you want more info, or I can be of more assistance.

Thank you,

mike

[HollandNut]

My doubles regulated fairly well with lighter cast boolits , the 400 for the 480/475 may werk OK ..

Takes a bit of experimenting , but can be done .. Brass is a pain , dies I think mine were about $400 , but doesnt take long to recover that money in a 470 ..

I think then you have the Khoff with the funky safety ...

Usually they are regulated to POA with the right barrel , and the left is brought as close as feasible to the right one .. And that depends on the maker , most high dollar English are happy with 2"-3" at 55m or so ..

Searcy seems to be the tighest I have seen ..

[HollandNut]

I will see if I can find some of my 470 cast data , may put you in the ballpark ..

[TedH]

I'd appreciate it.

[Nakihunter]

I am new here and want info on this old thread. Any updates?

I want to use the Lee mould for 400 gr bullets at 2000 fps or so for a regulated role in a 470 Double rifle.

Please help.

[15meter]

I am new here and want info on this old thread. Any updates?

I want to use the Lee mould for 400 gr bullets at 2000 fps or so for a regulated role in a 470 Double rifle.

Please help.

I use a Noe mold with 5744. You don't need to match either boolit weight or speed to get double rifles to regulate for practice loads.

Pistol weight boolits at slower speeds can usually be regulated quite nicely.

When I get in the shop I'll dig out my 470 N.E. data, currently using Accurate 5744. As soon as I unload some of these I'm going to try some Trail Boss.

I load for the 470, 450,(2) 450/400, 400/350 9.3x74r and an 8x50r, all in double rifles. All but the 9.3 I've gotten to regulate with reduced loads and the 9.3 is getting close to where I want it.

It is a blast to shoot these old doubles with reduced loads.

[fredj338]

I would probably cast for a 470 but really, if you are not going to shoot it a ton & jacketed bullets would be pretty easy, if not a little expensive. Try Accurate for a good mold.

[rking22]

Seems kinda like a great big 22 hornet, like t rex capable :)
Just gotta watch this thread, looks like a rrally cool project!

[15meter]

223999

This is what plinker loads in a 470 do to an oxygen cylinder:drinks:


This was my Halloween lantern last fall, but upright. Sorry about the sideways photo.

[murf205]

Go to Accurate Molds catalogue and look up a 48-510N. Tom designed this for 470 doubles and it looks like it would be a smash hit (pun intended) on game. You are going to need a TALL reloading press with a big window opening to load this long cartridge. I have used H4831 with good results. Remember this when shooting doubles. Most of the time you need to get the 2nd shot off as soon as you can comfortably get back on target because of the heat transfer to the unfired barrel. Some don't respond to this and some do. Only shooting it will tell you. I use a magnum primer 'cause you are lighting a LOT of powder. It's a hoot to shoot.

[Nakihunter]

Greetings from New Zealand.

Thank you for your reply. I am new to casting. Reloading for 25 years.

I have a Lee 400 gr mold - new. I hope to try casting in the next few days.

We do not seem to have 5744 powder here in NZ. We do get Trailboss, 4350, 4831, Re15 and most of the others. We get Vihtavouri powders here I I have N160 & N560 in stock - 2 or 3 lbs each.

We do not get Ramshot here.

I was hoping to get the 2000 fps with 400 gr cast bullets for a reduced load that would regulate. It would be great to get an even slower load to regulate.

I need to make a decision about what to add to the Wheel weight ingots which I melted up a couple of days ago (another first).
Do I just add 50/50 solder & how much?

Do I water quench them or do I oven heat treat them? I definitely do not want leading in the barrel!

I do not plan to size or gas check the bullets. I will pan lube them. A friend in the US who has shot a lot of double rifles including cast loads does this.

I would appreciate any help.

[15meter]

I know you said you don't get 5744 over there but here is my load:38 grains of 5744 over a standard Winchester primer using a Noe 480-375-RF(GC). Nominal weight of 375. I forgot to write down the as cast weight IIRC ~390 grains. I sized @ .476" and used a gas check.

Tried 40 grains and got very light leading, but my buddy and I shot that rifle until the barrel was WARM.

All 80 are loaded right now, hope to unload some week after next. It's off to Oshkosh and the air show next week[smilie=2:

Trying to drive them @ 2000 fps without a gas check maybe a challenge. Good luck and if I get some unloaded and reloaded with Trail Boss I'll post it.

If I remember[smilie=1:

[15meter]

Go to Accurate Molds catalogue and look up a 48-510N. Tom designed this for 470 doubles and it looks like it would be a smash hit (pun intended) on game. You are going to need a TALL reloading press with a big window opening to load this long cartridge. I have used H4831 with good results. Remember this when shooting doubles. Most of the time you need to get the 2nd shot off as soon as you can comfortably get back on target because of the heat transfer to the unfired barrel. Some don't respond to this and some do. Only shooting it will tell you. I use a magnum primer 'cause you are lighting a LOT of powder. It's a hoot to shoot.

What he says about a TALL press, Rockchucker is not tall enough, I tried. Ended up using my Lyman T-Mag. And yes it is a hoot to shoot.

[243winxb]

Nakihunter

Very little tin is needed if heat treating or water dropping. Other wise 2% tin is good. How much 50/50 to add, no idea. Its mostly a guess what is in the wheel weights.

A minimum of 2% Antimony is needed to heat treat or water drop. May take bullets a week to fully harden. Antimony makes bullets hard and larger in diameter.

If using ww as is, you must oven heat treat. Imo.

A minimum of 15 bhn is needed.

From Rotometals
Basic Rules for Hardening Lead-

For every 1% additional tin, Brinell hardness increases 0.3.
For every 1% additional antimony, Brinell hardness increases 0.9.
For a simple equation,
Brinell = 8.60 (Antimonial Lead) + ( 0.29 * Tin ) + ( 0.92 * Antimony )

[Nakihunter]

I cast some yesterday. I am now looking for the right sizing dies to go with my Lee and Redding single stage press. I found NOE website has the bushing system which looks good and also very reasonable - http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=564_104_410.

Lee do not have a standard product for 476 cal. RCBS do but I am not sure how to use it unless I have a separate RCBS or Lyman lube sizing press

224290224291

[murf205]

Ted, have you slugged your barrel? Before you buy a bushing, I would slug the thing to find out where you are starting from. The Merkel I work with has a .474 but Krieghoff might be different. .002 over is not too much. As much hell as a 470 Nitro raises when you shoot it, the pressures are not all that high, just a LOT of boolit and powder heading out the spout!

[Rcmaveric]

Greetings from New Zealand.

Thank you for your reply. I am new to casting. Reloading for 25 years.

I have a Lee 400 gr mold - new. I hope to try casting in the next few days.

We do not seem to have 5744 powder here in NZ. We do get Trailboss, 4350, 4831, Re15 and most of the others. We get Vihtavouri powders here I I have N160 & N560 in stock - 2 or 3 lbs each.

We do not get Ramshot here.

I was hoping to get the 2000 fps with 400 gr cast bullets for a reduced load that would regulate. It would be great to get an even slower load to regulate.

I need to make a decision about what to add to the Wheel weight ingots which I melted up a couple of days ago (another first).
Do I just add 50/50 solder & how much?

Do I water quench them or do I oven heat treat them? I definitely do not want leading in the barrel!

I do not plan to size or gas check the bullets. I will pan lube them. A friend in the US who has shot a lot of double rifles including cast loads does this.

I would appreciate any help.

If you have access to Lovex powders, D060 is an equivalent powder to 5744. Equivalent means it is not the same, but it is with in 5% of being its equal.

N120 looks like a good powder as well, Its just a touch slower than Reloader 7 and IMR 4198. All of those in this group are equivalents.

[Petander]

Bump.

I'm on this wagon,too. I contacted Vihtavuori about 325 and 400 grain cast loads. They listened and called back the following day with data for N120 and N135 for both bullets.

Important: you can not go below certain fill % , too much empty space is a serious safety issue. My velocities are like stout 45-70 loads, comfortable with a heavy double. Pressure is 2000 bar, max being 2700. Can't go lower with these powders!

I will chime back in with those loads.

[15meter]

May have to make some reloading opportunities in the 470 this afternoon.


It's been awhile since I loaded any. Easy on the hands, not fighting with little bullets. I've got a batch of 204 Ruger that need to be loaded that I've been avoiding for that exact reason.

[Petander]

Yes, reloading 470 NE is fun and easy!

I thought my NOE (pistol) expander would be too short for PB 400 grainers but the bases stay .477 as sized.

I'm comparing coatings now, Hi Tek is good up to 2300 fps / 325 grain in the pic but now I also PC:d some. I got lucky with my RCBS 476 sizer die, it gives me 477 and that works good.

https://i.postimg.cc/qgfyHpNk/IMG-20211019-162331.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/RVkWw6zW/IMG-20211022-WA0001.jpg

[15meter]

Yes, reloading 470 NE is fun and easy!

I thought my NOE (pistol) expander would be too short for PB 400 grainers but the bases stay .477 as sized.

I'm comparing coatings now, Hi Tek is good up to 2300 fps / 325 grain in the pic but now I also PC:d some. I got lucky with my RCBS 476 sizer die, it gives me 477 and that works good.

https://i.postimg.cc/qgfyHpNk/IMG-20211019-162331.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/RVkWw6zW/IMG-20211022-WA0001.jpg

I like the gold ones, they're sharp. Not much of a fan of cotton candy colors for boolits.

Didn't make the reloading opportunities in 470 like I thought, but did make a bunch in 375 Ouch and Ouch, 458 Win Mag, 8x50R, 416 Rigby, 45 ACP, 303 British and 303 Savage.

Making that Lyman polish work overtime tonight. 1/2 tonight, other half tomorrow when I'm at the fall beer festival. They're talking 2"+ of rain between here and Tuesday. Turn up the heat in the shed and start making inroads in last summer's shooting.

Good thing it's turning into reloading weather.

[Petander]

Oh yeah, we got "Reloading Weather" too. Snow.

I'm comparing coating quality,colours don't matter to me.

That Hi Tek Gold holds up to 2300 fps , I'm getting just a tiny shade of gray in the barrel after 20 rounds. It wipes off with Bore Tech Eliminator.

Bright colours are PC from Smoke, the blue one has been very good in other calibers. Gotta let them harden for a week or two before I load.

[15meter]

290907

This be the beast I reload the 470 for, belongs to a buddy, he pays for all the reloading stuffings plus dies, molds and brass. He keeps my favorite beer(and my favorite gin with tonic and fresh limes.) in his refrigerator, provides me with a key to his house with the instructions "if your passing by just stop and get a beer, I don't have to be there".

And I shoot at least half of the rounds that I load for it.

But I'm retired and he is he's still working, I like loading, he hates loading.

It's a tough life, but somebody's gotta do it.

[Good Cheer]

Recently acquired the 525 grain Lyman #470216 for a muzzleloading rifle build.
Thought for sure somebody would be shooting it in the Nitro Express!

[15meter]

Recently acquired the 525 grain Lyman #470216 for a muzzleloading rifle build.
Thought for sure somebody would be shooting it in the Nitro Express!

I think that mold will drop a boolit that is too small. I'm sizing mine @ .476, not sure the 470216 will drop a boolit large enough.

[reedap1]

Petander et al,

Some great information on loading PC cast bullets in the 470 Nitro Express. I have been experimenting also using an RCBS 500-grain mould casting from COWW and PC'ed. In your experiences how have your guns regulated using your loads? I'm finding that I can get good velocity light loads that are clean burning and fun to shoot but regulation is always a challenge. I try to adjust powder charges to get them to regulate at 50-75 yards in my Krieghoff.

What have your collective experiences in this regard been?

Thanks

Paul

[15meter]

Lighter boolits have worked most of the time for me. Pistol boolit light. I am using a 480 Ruger boolit for the 470.

Only exception to the rule has been a William Evans double in 8x50R. That one likes standard weight boolits.

8 rounds off hand, 4 each from two shooters can be covered with a beer can.

At 50 yards, didn't think my or my buddies eyes were that good anymore.

And I load for 450 N.E. (2 rifles), 450/400, 400/350, 400/360 Purdy, 8x50R and 303 British in double rifles.

[W.R.Buchanan]

And I load for 450 N.E. (2 rifles), 450/400, 400/350, 400/360 Purdy, 8x50R and 303 British in double rifles.

that's great,,, But do you have an Ice Boat?

We moved out of MI in 1956, I was 6, but if we had stayed I would have gotten involved with that sport. I did Hobie Cats out here in the Pacific Ocean which are similar but not nearly as fast. I've heard your 15M boats are good for 5X the speed of the wind in a Broad Reach? That could get downright scary on a brisk afternoon!

Randy

[Petander]

My 470 NE plinker bullets are pistol bullets for 480 / 475,too. I have the Lees and:

This is the new to me 405 grain (with my alloy) "Smoke blue" pill from Mihec. It got dark but the load seems to regulate good @ 50 meters, a paint bucket cover was jumping around a lot. About 2000 fps, Vihtavuori N135.

I seat these fat nose bullets a bit past the crimp groove for reliable,easy chambering. The black in the necks is graphite dust, I forgot to wipe in the hurry to the range... daylight time is getting short around here.

https://i.postimg.cc/FHQ36VB6/IMG-20211101-163101.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/mkfQCvKm/IMG-20211101-162514.jpg

[15meter]

that's great,,, But do you have an Ice Boat?

We moved out of MI in 1956, I was 6, but if we had stayed I would have gotten involved with that sport. I did Hobie Cats out here in the Pacific Ocean which are similar but not nearly as fast. I've heard your 15M boats are good for 5X the speed of the wind in a Broad Reach? That could get downright scary on a brisk afternoon!

Randy

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X9VEM4KdgSY

Silver helmet is me, I own 3, my daughter has one. I've been doing for 45+ years now.

Dumbest sport ever invented.

One in the video belongs to a buddy, I was just out joyriding. 32 feet of Sitka Spruce and Mahogany adrenaline.

That day we clocked 56 mph on the GPS on mediocre ice and not enough wind.

[15meter]

My 470 NE plinker bullets are pistol bullets for 480 / 475,too. I have the Lees and:

This is the new to me 405 grain (with my alloy) "Smoke blue" pill from Mihec. It got dark but the load seems to regulate good @ 50 meters, a paint bucket cover was jumping around a lot. About 2000 fps, Vihtavuori N135.

I seat these fat nose bullets a bit past the crimp groove for reliable,easy chambering. The black in the necks is graphite dust, I forgot to wipe in the hurry to the range... daylight time is getting short around here.

https://i.postimg.cc/FHQ36VB6/IMG-20211101-163101.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/mkfQCvKm/IMG-20211101-162514.jpg

Nice looking!

[Petander]

My Dalmatian coating.

https://i.postimg.cc/NM4cQhrL/IMG-20211103-185811-773.jpg

[Petander]

I fired some Dalmatians @ 50 meters after firing ten Smoke's Blue ones to warm up. Too dark to chrono,cloudy and a little rain all day. But this MP 405 grainer is going about 2000 fps.

https://i.postimg.cc/YSYdGfWP/IMG-20211104-170644-129.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/CxmDxcJ7/IMG-20211104-155622.jpg

All in black, standing, nothing phenomenal but I'll check the regulation better after I'm sure of this iltalian non-TGIC coating holding up. Spread could be much worse,based on what I've seen on the few doubles I've handled.

https://i.postimg.cc/KzYgSmx5/IMG-20211104-160652.jpg

[longbow]

Looking good!

That is a nice looking double rifle and nice looking rounds.

Good that they seem to be grouping reasonably with something other than the load the gun was regulated with.

Longbow

[Petander]

Good that they seem to be grouping reasonably with something other than the load the gun was regulated with.

Longbow

This is the BIG dark area, there are rules and logic to how these rifles behave when fired. But there's still luck involved when you change everything about the load. You can predict but...

With Lee 325 grain, N120, everything goes up and left. Both barrels! This rifle has a scope mount as you may have noticed, I have not used the scope yet but I have the idea to adjust the scope for those light bullets @ 100 m. If they group there. If not, I'll set the scope for 380 HP:s, wherever they regulate best. Varmints,you know.

I'm surprised that the trajectory is this close,too. I used the 50 m blade here. Standard load 500 gr @ 2250 is quite a bit different in recoil....

[Petander]

I like this 405 grain Mihec load @ 2000 fps. VV N135. Regulated good @ 50 m, low velocity spread.


https://i.postimg.cc/KjkY2BBg/IMG-20211111-WA0004.jpg

[Petander]

I put a Leupold Freedom 1,5-4x24 on. The old scope was horrible.

Checked regulation from ouch @ 75 meters. 405 grain Mihec @ 2000 fps.

https://i.postimg.cc/sxYqvDW9/IMG-20211112-WA0005.jpg

I put the right barrel "on". Then see what the left does.

https://i.postimg.cc/2ScJqt1J/IMG-20211112-WA0003.jpg

Left barrel over-regulates as expected. The bullets cross at ~50 m or so, perfect for practise. I could up the charge and get them closer,re-zero, but my idea here is a plinking load. Fast practise up to 50 m is just fine.

https://i.postimg.cc/zvrPZZQL/IMG-20211112-WA0004.jpg

Each barrel seems to group ok by itself. Merkel did good - and so did Mihec.

[W.R.Buchanan]

15 meter,, very cool video! 56 MPH? not bad. Was Gretchen Whitmer chasing you? Almost seems like too much fun!

We came out of Okemos just east of East Lansing in 1956. I was back in 1958 and 59 for the summer with my dad. Haven't been back since.

Randy

[Petander]

15 meter,, very cool video! 56 MPH? not bad. Was Gretchen Whitmer chasing you? Almost seems like too much fun!

We came out of Okemos just east of East Lansing in 1956. I was back in 1958 and 59 for the summer with my dad. Haven't been back since.

Randy

Randy, do you know what the topic is?

[longbow]

Is that your own range? Looks like just the one lane and berm, or are there others well separated?

That is a nice gun! I am jealous!

Also, a question... It seems most double rifles are set up for same POI at a specific range, I think usually 50 to 100 yards. Why? If the barrels were parallel and shot to POI with a couple inches (50mm) or so between center of groups why would that be a bad thing?

If I had a double rifle and I could aim at a bullseye at 100 yards and have the right barrel group 1" to 1 1/2" right and the left barrel group 1" to 1 1/2" left (or whatever the center distance is) I'd be quite happy. If you knew which barrel you were shooting you could easily compensate by holding one way or the other a bit. These aren't bench rest guns after all.

It just seems like trouble to pick a distance and try to make both barrels shoot to same POI there. I guess for the relatively short range the guns are intended for it doesn't really matter but I always wondered why have a crossover point? If you wanted to shoot 200 yards, which isn't really far, you'd have to compensate for the crossover.

Nonetheless, that's how they seem to be made.

I am still jealous!

Longbow

[Winger Ed.]

What a beautiful rifle.

I shot some 405s in .45-70 in a rather light weight Marlin at about 15-1600 fps.
It took a lot of shoulder rubbing and head scratching to figure out which end of it was more dangerous than the other.:bigsmyl2:

[Petander]

Longbow, that's the way all sxs double guns behave. Regulation is off if the barrels "cross" like here.

There's only one specific load that goes parallel because the barrels recoil both sideways and up. In this case it is a 500 Woodleigh with 110 grains of Vihtavuori N160 @ 2250 fps @ up to 75 m. Change anything,like powder, and both poi :s change. Even if the velocity stays the same, barrel time and poi's change.

Regulation changes with the shooter,too. Better british manufacturers let/want the customer to come in and test shoot the particular rifle / load combination. Then regulate accordingly. Your hold & recoil most probably differ from mine.

So, when I know it regulates within, say 2" up to 75 meters, like this does with 500's, I don't need to think about it. But with these practise loads I have to take what I get, in this case 50-60 meters crossing. Could be much worse.

[longbow]

I thought the barrels were set up to converge at a specific distance with the regulated load. Not so?

Longbow

[Petander]

Is that your own range? Looks like just the one lane and berm, or are there others well separated?

That is a nice gun! I am jealous!



Longbow

Yes this is our local hunting club's cabin / cottage / range. A whopping five minute drive from my home. My winter season is just about to begin.

Luxury things like this made me move back to the countryside some 25 years ago.

There are two different, big proper shooting ranges with moving moose targets, trap range, 22 range etc within 15 minutes drive.

[Petander]

I thought the barrels were set up to converge at a specific distance with the regulated load. Not so?

Longbow

This is what usually happens at some distance , but , the idea is to make them shoot parallel. Very delicate business, add a scope and everything changes because of the weight change.

[longbow]

Okay then, I just did a bit of reading on regulating barrels:

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/understanding-the-regulation-of-double-barrel-rifles.54344/

Something I was neglecting in my thoughts was the recoil effect of the two barrels being offset from the centerline of the gun.

I wouldn't have thought it would make that much difference but so it does!

An O/U makes more sense in that regard but I still prefer SxS double barreled guns.

Interesting stuff!

Longbow

[Petander]

Interesting stuff!

Longbow

It sure is!

A friend of mine had a Merkel 8 mm sxs , I helped with regulating it. There were small hex screws at the muzzle to adjust left barrel poi. I should have bought that gun... he sold it for too cheap imo.

I used almost 100 bullets when tweaking the gun and load. It kicked quite a bit... horrible triggers... but still kind of nice.

[longbow]

Nice that you have good shooting facilities so close to home.

I can't complain compared to many I guess as we have one reasonably large collection of shooting ranges and archery range about 45 minutes away one way, a shotgun range about 20 minutes away and a small "rustic/spartan" rifle and handgun range about 15 minutes in a different direction.

It makes things much easier when a guy is working up loads as you are for your double rifle.

If you had to drive 1 hour or more to get to the range it takes more planning and likely results in less time at the range.

Your pics of the range, gun and ammunition are very nice... and the targets are looking good too!

Longbow

[Petander]

Yeah, I'm a member in a few shooting clubs. One club meets at a 300 m range, it's a two hour drive for me but worth it. People drive from much longer distances to shoot.

I bought a 44 mag S&W #29 a couple of years back. Gentleman who sold it lives in southern Finland near big cities ,(big is relative) , he said there's no places where one can shoot a big handgun anymore.

I even got my own 470 proof bullet trap in that "home range" of mine. I donated the trap to our club, everyone liked the idea. Better be prepared for enviromadness.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Randy, do you know what the topic is?

Petander: I am a known "Thread Hijacker" with many priors.

I do like your gun. Do you hunt Polar Bears with it?

Randy

[longbow]

Better be prepared for enviromadness.

and collecting lead for recycling!

How is a .470 bullet trap made... AR plate and sand filled?

Longbow

[Petander]

Petander: I am a known "Thread Hijacker" with many priors.

I do like your gun. Do you hunt Polar Bears with it?

Randy

Mostly elephants.

[Petander]

and collecting lead for recycling!

How is a .470 bullet trap made... AR plate and sand filled?

Longbow


There's a cylinder. Everything is made of thick, heavy steel.

Here you can see the cylinder design. It was built to take 45-70.

https://i.postimg.cc/nzy0nV8n/IMG-20211114-WA0001.jpg


https://www.google.com/search?q=bullet+trap&client=firefox-b-m&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBt8GTqpf0AhWPk4sKHaRmAh0Q_AUIBigB&biw=360&bih=674#imgrc=9AdVBll2Ww6ieM

[longbow]

Good idea! with tangential entry there shouldn't be impact damage and no sand to sift through.

Longbow

[15meter]

Randy, do you know what the topic is?

Randy and I hijacked the thread for a little bit.

Ice
Is
Nice

Check post #35

[Petander]

Good idea! with tangential entry there shouldn't be impact damage and no sand to sift through.

Longbow

It sort of grinds the bullets a bit. My lead recovery rate is 50%. Lots of black dust.

Topic drift is okay, our elephants are pink.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Plus that you do have Ice in Finland, and I bet they race Ice Boats there too. Huh?

Somehow shooting your .470 NE at Pink Elephants from your Ice Boat just seems like the ultimate far north shooting experience !!!

I'll be stopping by next week to put it all together. [smilie=w:

Randy

[longbow]

I am a bit surprised that much lead is ground/splattered off but I guess with glancing off the angled plates then spinning wildly around the tube a guy should expect some loss. Have you tried melting the black dust? If very fine lead I guess it would tend to oxidize quickly and be lost as dross anyway... even if it is lead.

I'd have to think the ultimate would be shooting the .470 at pink Finnish elephants while being pulled by reindeer in a large sleigh! Just one man's fantasy!

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

We definitely want videos of anything related to shooting Pink Elephants!

Randy

[Petander]

Have you tried melting the black dust? If very fine lead I guess it would tend to oxidize quickly and be lost as dross anyway... even if it is lead.


Yes,I tried melting it all. Black is heavy but won't reduce back into the alloy.

After a few 45-70 or 470 rounds the trap looks like something is burning, grey "smoke" is coming out. Cylinder surface is quite rough inside. Bullets really get ground up. Handgun bullets survive much better.

[longbow]

I'm betting the fine dust oxidizes quickly so won't melt into your lead. It may be possible to reduce it back to metallic lead using charcoal. Might take high temperatures though and be too much effort.

That .470 is hard on powder and lead!

[15meter]

Plus that you do have Ice in Finland, and I bet they race Ice Boats there too. Huh?

Somehow shooting your .470 NE at Pink Elephants from your Ice Boat just seems like the ultimate far north shooting experience !!!

I'll be stopping by next week to put it all together. [smilie=w:

Randy

Count me in!:Fire:

[Petander]

That .470 is hard on powder and lead!

Yes two boxes (40 rounds altogether) of 400 grn plinkers every week means 50 kg of alloy and 10 kg of N135 per year. 111 lbs and 22 lbs respectively. Just for one gun. But this is also huge savings when you think of it...

Figuring out that ice boat now...

[Thumbcocker]

Yes two boxes (40 rounds altogether) of 400 grn plinkers every week means 50 kg of alloy and 10 kg of N135 per year. 111 lbs and 22 lbs respectively. Just for one gun. But this is also huge savings when you think of it...

Figuring out that ice boat now...

Spoken like a true boolit caster. 111 pounds of lead and 22 pounds of powder to "save" money. I salute you sir.

[Petander]

Must check this Mihec HP version next. Too much rain lately.

With the same charge, I guess these will cross earlier than solid ones.

https://i.postimg.cc/MK0P4pbw/IMG-20211114-WA0003.jpg

[murf205]

We definitely want videos of anything related to shooting Pink Elephants!

Randy

We need to know what is in that drink as well!
Petander, although I am not in pain any more, one of the drawbacks to having a prosthesis for a shoulder joint is that my surgeon told me to lay off the big kicking guns. I sure miss the challenge of shooting the 470 accurately (sort of).

[longbow]

Looks like you've got a colour match for the pink Finnish elephants anyway!

Just get that POI sorted out and you're good!

Longbow

[sigep1764]

2080 rounds a year, sounds like you're on a mission to see how long it takes to wear it out! Im on the same mission with a 270 and boolits at 1500fps. I don't think we are gonna wear them out.

[Petander]

Guns are made for shooting.

My shoulder will wear out soon anyway, I rather shoot fun guns as much as I can, because I still can. Glucosamine saved my shoulder.



Looks like you've got a colour match for the pink Finnish elephants anyway!

Just get that POI sorted out and you're good!

Longbow

POI with these 400 plinkers is good up to 60 m where they cross. The only way to fix it further out is to move to full house 500 grainers which regulate good up too 100 m, haven't tried further, no need. 50 m is a long Elephant shot, good practise distance. 15 m is more probable.

Or go crazy and tune the left barrel POI towards the right "dead on" -one with a heavier charge/bullet... yeah colour coded rounds, pink for left only.

Absinth for the drink, gives you many colours!

[longbow]

I guess crossing at 100m with the 500 gr. and full load makes sense since the gun is intended for big critters at relatively close range, not varmints at 400 yards.

You did say the individual barrels group well with the lighter boolits though... right? If so one barrel could be used for longer range shooting couldn't it? Just save sight/scope settings. A .470 has to be able to reach out and put the hurt on water jugs a past 100m... not that blowing them up at 60m isn't fun!

Longbow

[Petander]

Yes excellent grouping for individual barrels at 75 m with 400 plinkers. Holes touching.

Past 100 m is a challenge for beer cans / open sights and I don't feel it necessary. This is a DG gun and has rear sight blades 25,50 and 75 m. I' m not trying to make this a sniper rifle. The scope it came with is a fixed 1.25x magnification, scopes are mostly for verifying ammo. You don't want a 4x scope when a buffalo is charging at close range.

And my Mihec plinkers are dead on with 50 m blade @ 50 m. Trying to keep this simple. Think shotgun-like fast situations and a fast second shot.

In the ideal world, barrels never cross. Bullets go parallel in a 1" tube forever. My 500 Woodleighs do that up yo 100 m, haven't checked longer.

[longbow]

While maybe a bit overkill that .470 would be an interesting gun for a wild boar hunt.

Do you get the big Russian boars there?

I am not much of a hunter these days but I would like to shoot a wild boar or two.

We don't have any close but they are spreading through most of the US and we now have a population in Alberta due to escapies from farms where they were introduced for meat and hunting... but I don't have a .470 NE double rifle!

Longbow

[Petander]

While maybe a bit overkill that .470 would be an interesting gun for a wild boar hunt.

Do you get the big Russian boars there?



They are invading! No overkill at all plus that quick second shot. I could actually use this 400 plinker, it's like a hot 45-70 . I need to check that 325 Lee too. Only got the velocity, 2300 fps. Boars are fast so...

Some boars were in cameras this fall, eg. a herd of six quite near here. Our club president ordered hunters to get them boars whenever possible.

[murf205]

Our club president ordered hunters to get them boars whenever possible.

I don't believe you can kill them as fast as they can multiply. Here in the southeast you can't for sure. Our super conservative game and fish dept here in Alabama even gives permits to hunt them at night(gasp)! Just 10 or 12 years ago, we had 0 hog problems on the property I hunted on and now they have all but put a stop to the planting because they root the food plots up so bad. Those 6 on your camera will be over 50 in a yr if you don't get busy with that 470. Good luck brother, with that big double it should be fun.

[longbow]

I'd like to hop on a plane and come over to help you thin that herd a bit but being a foreigner I bet there's a ton of paperwork and expensive nonresident hunting licenses.

I was reading about the wild pig problem in Hawaii so had wanted to try pig hunting on our last trip there but... being a foreigner there was expensive nonresident hunting license plus you have to go with a guide or local resident. I would have thought they'd welcome the help! Well, I guess they do but they don't make it cheap or easy.

Also, I had no .470 NE to use!

Longbow

[Petander]

Look what The Cat dragged in:

https://i.postimg.cc/BZ1svGsW/IMG-20211123-194827-167.jpg

Feels like Christmas.

[W.R.Buchanan]

While maybe a bit overkill that .470 would be an interesting gun for a wild boar hunt.

Do you get the big Russian boars there?

I am not much of a hunter these days but I would like to shoot a wild boar or two.

We don't have any close but they are spreading through most of the US and we now have a population in Alberta due to escapies from farms where they were introduced for meat and hunting... but I don't have a .470 NE double rifle!

Longbow

But you do have a Shotgun, and You can shoot slugs in it!

Randy

Petander: My cat rolls up in a ball like that too. In fact he looks alot like yours., This is TAZ!

[longbow]

True Randy... but no hogs nearby and it's a thread about .470 NE.

I'd like to say I'm trying to stay on topic but you know me!

We do have hogs in Alberta now which is only a day's drive. I may head that way to chase a hog one day. No Finnish pink elephants there though!

Longbow

[Petander]

https://i.postimg.cc/P59qx77k/IMG-20211125-WA0001.jpg

[15meter]

Look what The Cat dragged in:

https://i.postimg.cc/BZ1svGsW/IMG-20211123-194827-167.jpg

Feels like Christmas.

Need a full frontal shot of the cat, looks like multiple cats(like dozens that looked the same over the decades) that hung around at the family farm for the last 45+ years. Last one migrated to the next door neighbors house after I sold the farm this past winter.

Curious if those genes are world wide.

It's name was Stupid. It was for the most part anti-social to the guy that fed and built the heated water bowl AND made sure that it was kept full even in -15 degree weather last winter.

Until the last 3 weeks before the farm was sold.

THEN it turned into a buddy. I named it Stupid 10 years ago and the name still fits.

And yes, it's a shameless thread hijack. Not even the first on this thread. I'm a bad person. Just ask my wife.

[Petander]

15Meter, catjacking a thread is absolutely fine.

Here is my next test, a NLG / BB bullet from Accurate. Very interesting. I used a 16 BHN alloy, maybe harder, will know in a couple of weeks. I also double PC:d some other colours, this "Antique" is single coat because clear coats great and thick. And for the looks,of course.

Mold is not seasoned yet, got it two days ago. But I gave it five heat cycles (30 min in a 200°F oven, one hour cool down to room temp) . Acceptable bullets started dropping after six pours and tendency for tinning was not bad at all.

https://i.postimg.cc/Wbm3XsFv/IMG-20211210-WA0002.jpg
390 grains for those ~2000 fps 25-75 meter plinkers,again.

[murf205]

Petander, that boolit looks like a moose thumper as well as a plinker. Tom does beautiful work, let us know how it shoots. BTW since catjacking is allowed here is the queen of our house.292915

[Petander]

I even found a mint CH Trim die for this. $40. Thank you Russ.

Some Fleabay 470 NE trim die prices are just out of this world. Hundreds. I almost lost all hope.

https://i.postimg.cc/FsLGSx4n/IMG-20211211-WA0000.jpg



Need a full frontal shot of the cat, looks like multiple cats(like dozens that looked the same over the decades) that hung around at the family farm for the last 45+ years. Last one migrated to the next door neighbors house after I sold the farm this past winter.

Curious if those genes are world wide.

Here you go:

https://i.postimg.cc/nVsNdBxq/IMG-20211210-WA0012.jpg

As long as there's a cat, there's hope.


Petander, that boolit looks like a moose thumper as well as a plinker. Tom does beautiful work, let us know how it shoots. BTW since catjacking is allowed here is the queen of our house.292915

Great mold,I'm excited about this. And sweet Queen!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Sometimes life is just too much!

Randy

[15meter]

I even found a mint CH Trim die for this. $40. Thank you Russ.

Some Fleabay 470 NE trim die prices are just out of this world. Hundreds. I almost lost all hope.

https://i.postimg.cc/FsLGSx4n/IMG-20211211-WA0000.jpg




Here you go:

https://i.postimg.cc/nVsNdBxq/IMG-20211210-WA0012.jpg


As long as there's a cat, there's hope.



Great mold,I'm excited about this. And sweet Queen!

Apparently those genes are worldwide. Stupid, the cat at the farm could be your cat's twin.

[Petander]

https://i.postimg.cc/HW3pbWhb/IMG-20220516-145329-977-2.jpg

Claybirds break good with both barrels up to 50 meters with Mihec 400 grain GC bullet, PC:d .477 @ 2000 fps. Vihtavuori N135. I neck size and use a NOE expander before seating the bullets. Regulation was a big,nice surprise,barrels are 4" apart @ 75 meters with this bullet.

Barrels stay very,very clean.

Fast fire practise is great fun with this "Marlin level" economy practise load.

[Petander]

Now I loaded 400 grn bevel base NLG bullets from Accurate. First time shooting these,they are .477 plus PC.

I used the same charge as for Mihec 400 GC:s for 2000 fps. I didn't feel like shooting groups so I put some claybirds on the 75 meter berm and started shooting them, the scope @ 4x .

Both barrels broke every clay I shot at, I stopped after six and moved on close to shoot the rest, practising fast shouldering and quick doubles. Amazing regulation for a practise load if you ask me. Me happy!

Oh and the barrels show no visible leading with eyeglasses. Two dry patches,then normal Ed's Red cleaning.

https://i.postimg.cc/W1J9L71f/IMG-20220518-175838-693-2.jpg

[W.R.Buchanan]

Taz likes your pretty boolits. Randy300344

[Petander]

Taz likes your pretty boolits. Randy300344

https://i.postimg.cc/CKQxkqpr/IMG-20220520-200224-751-4.jpg

[Petander]

Oops.

Only 40+ reloads, never full sized. 20 full 500 grn loads, 20+ 400 grn practise loads.

https://i.postimg.cc/hthLSX2p/IMG-20220520-210831-116-2.jpg

[elk hunter]

Have you been annealing the necks? If not it's probably not too late to start. If you have been annealing, any case will fail if reloaded enough times. It hurts more when they're big, hard to find and expensive.

[lar45]

I shoot a 500gn cast, from a Mountain Molds mold, at 2150 with RL15 and a tuft of Dacron, Fed 215s of course.

http://www.lsstuff.com/pics/guns/470ne/470ne-03.jpg

[15meter]

Stupid, the last photo I took just before I went to the closing on the farm.

Pretty sure the cat knew it was the last time.

300560

After about 6 months with the new owners, she migrated to the neighbors. Apparently the cat liked their brand of cat food better than the new owner's brand at the farm.