Lyman 358156 HP how fast?

[Old Ironsights]

When shot without a GC, how fast can I reasonably expect to shoot a 358156 before it starts leading like a bevel base?

Assume 50/50 alloy.

[JayinAZ]

My non-HP 358156 cast from ww are good to go under 1000 fps without a check installed. I use jake's purple lube.

[HeavyMetal]

I'm not sure what you mean by a "50/50" alloy? 50% WW and 50% Linotype?

The truth is, in my experience anyway, that leading is only partially prevented by the alloy mixture.

You also need a boolit lube that works in the load your working with!

By the way the whole idea behind the gas check was to use it as a "scraper" to prevent leading when shooting very soft alloys!

You also haven't said what caliber your shooting?

In the 357 in a 4 or 6 inch barrel and using something like Zambini red I doubt you'll ever get leading.

Change this to a 35 Remington in a 14 inch Contender or one of the rifles chambered for the same round and you could push yourself into "Leadsville" real quick!

I am in the process now of collecting the current crop of boolit lubes and intended to do an in depth experiment and find out which one gives the best velocity and minimal, if any, leading.

Considering the amout of choices out there I thought, at one time, this might be impossible to do.

With my discovery of the lube formulas "Sticky" I realize that a good many of them are the same basic formula with a different coloring agent added!

I plan to sort through them select as many different "formulas" as possible then run same boolit, same alloy, same load, same barrel, same day testing!

So I'll say you need to think about what lube your using and adjust accordingly.

In the mean time I suggest you need to post more intel as to the caliber, barrel length and weapon your using for a more in depth answer to your question.

[Old Ironsights]

by 50/50 I mean WW to PB.

I will be shooting these out of either a Ruger SP101 (2.5") or a Rossi 92 (20")

I'm not looking to drive them fast per se - that's pure WW & GC land - but I'm wondering what the upper limit will be before there gets to be significant performance degredation without the GC squaring up the base.

I will probably be using Titegroup as the powder and (because I have a bunch) LLA as lube.

BTW, I already shoot these super slow in pure pb - over 1 to 1.5gr Titegroup...

[HeavyMetal]

Your performance issue is going to depend strictly on your ability as a caster!

The gas check, as mentioned earlier, is used as a scraper to prevent leading. It also "seals" the base of the boolit when it exits the muzzle.

We've all heard about bad muzzle crowns affecting accuracy, running with out a gas check is going to be the same thing in reverse, in theory!

If the base area/ last driving band is filled out properly, nice and square no rounded edges at all, the gas check area should perform as a "boat tail"!

If it doesn't touch the muzzle on exit it should not throw off the shot. Again the only way this will work is if the boolits are perfect! This is the reason GC boolits are reported to fail in accuracy with out the GC: they are not perfect when loaded! A GC allows a considerable amount of "oopsie" in casting and will still shoot wellwith the gas check installed!

Now lets talk lube! LLA won't be an issue in the Ruger, you don't have enough barrel for "speed" related leading so concentrate on building a load that stays within the performance levels of your alloy, in this case nothing hotter than 38 special plus P, and your good to go.

In the rifle I think you need to create another alloy and explore a different lube.

WW and PB mixed together creates an alloy with no tin, and low antimony content. This menas the alloy won't harden if you heat treat or water drop! If you want to use this boolit in the 20 inch rifle barrel cast pure "clip on" WW metal and use a better lube. Lots of good lubes out there I just mention the zambini red as an example.

I'm not sure of you resources but if you can buy or trade for some of the type metals do so.

The resulting alloy will make much better rifle boolits.

I can understand not wanting any additional expenses in the cost of making ammo but quite honestly there is a point of "no return" when trying to save a penny and what happens then is your not getting the performance you want or might possiblely need.

Give this some thought. In the end you might be better off using the Lyman boolit for serious wrok and getting a mold that does not use a gas check for "plinking"!

[Bass Ackward]

by 50/50 I mean WW to PB.

I will be shooting these out of either a Ruger SP101 (2.5") or a Rossi 92 (20")




If I had to guess and that is all we get, I would water drop those. The thin bands on the 358156 rely on the check as the widest drive band. That and along with the Ultra fast powder choice will surprise me if you get over 800 fps without leading. That's water dropped. That means two different charges for the rifle and handgun cause 20" is going to produce way more velocity.

Close this out for the record with what you find.

[Junior1942]

With straight AC WW alloy and two coats of LLA you could get 1750 - 1800 fps from the rifle with zero barrel leading. With your soft alloy, I guess 1650 fps and leading will start.

In my Rossi 92, I shoot the similar RCBS 38-158-SWC and Lee C358-158-F to 1817 fps with Lil'Gun and get no leading--bullet is AC WW alloy.