how fast is too fast for ww 30/30

[glock3540]

Trying to work up a load for a marlin 336 30/30 with a ranch dog 311-165 cast from acww, checked and powder coated. I've shot loads with 20, 22 and 24gr of H335 with almost identical accuracy. I've loaded up some with 25, 26, 27 and 28gr. If I make it to 28gr, velocity should be around 1900fps. Is this too fast for a hunting bullet (whitetail). I'm concerned about the bullet breaking apart. Fairly new to hunting with cast. I shot a doe last year with a ranch dog 340gr out of my 45/70, cast from ww at about 60yds. The bullet broke in two. Half went right through chest. The other half did an almost 90 degree turn and ended up in a rear ham. I still can't figure out how a bullet could do that.

[Hickory]

I have killed a few deer with the 30-30 using the Lyman 311041 at around 1850 fps.
All were DRT with a lot of damage, I don't feel there is need for a super fast boolit with a BHN hardness of not over 12-14.

[outdoorfan]

You ask a real and legitimate question. I can't answer from personal experience, but from deducing from the experience of others it is my opinion that impact velocity should not exceed much over around 2000 fps with that bullet and alloy/hardness. Remember, impact velocity is what counts.

[JSH]

My first thing is accuracy. 1"@100 is what I look for, but refuse to be satisfied with that most of the time. Always searching for the bug hole loads.

Speed. I don't get too hung up on speed. 1500-2200 should be enough.

Alloy. Folks usually talk hard or soft. In a discussion a while back the subject was brought up. In a hunting bullet I is neither hard nor soft. It needs to be tough.
Hard enough get up to speed with no issues. Hard enough to hold together and drive through.
Yet, soft enough to expand and hold together.
I air cool and use 60-40 or 70-30 with enough tin to get good fill out.
As usual, fit is king.
Jeff

[richhodg66]

FWIW, I used that Ranchdog bullet in a .308 a couple of years ago. Load was 28 grains of IMR4895 and a small tuft of dacron. Alloy was 50/50 COWW to pure with 2% tin. That velocity range oughta be easy to duplicate with a .30-30. The bullet shot through about three feet of deer on a decent buck opening morning of 2012.

[44man]

I have been using 3031 and get a little over 1900 fps.
I don't deer hunt with a rifle so never fooled with alloys.

[lobogunleather]

I've been loading cast bullets in .30-30 for many years. My sons and grandkids send all their brass to Grampa for reloading every year. Probably a hundred deer taken in 3 or 4 states using Winchester 94's and the following load:

1. Full length resized brass, necks expanded on the Lyman M-die
2. Standard large rifle primer
3. 30 grains H335 (couple of times when H335 was unavailable I have used BLC-2, which is pretty near identical)
4. Lee C309-170 cast of 50/50 wheel weights and new linotype metal (BHN about 16-18), Hornady gas checks, NRA formula Alox lube applied in the lubri-sizer with .309 die (basically unsized), firm crimp in the crimping groove.

This load is very close to a duplicate of factory 170-grain loads.

I don't recall ever taking a shot at more than 100 yards, always in the heart-lung area, and I have never had a deer go more than about 30 yards or require a second shot. Penetration has almost always been complete through-and-through with very few bullets ever recovered. Those that have been recovered have shown very little upset or expansion, and little deformation unless a bone was hit (and then these bullets punch right through). These have included Colorado mule deer (usually 150 to 275 lbs) and quite a few southern whitetails (smaller).

Bore cleaning usually requires nothing more than a solvent-soaked patch followed by 4 or 5 dry patches.

I have been present when others took deer with .30-30 factory ammo (jacketed) and the performance has been just about identical.

[white eagle]

there are few cartridges that have velocity caps that are ideal for cast
I believe the 30-30 is one of them(as are the 358 win,45-70)
as long as your accuracy is where you want it you really can't push it
to fast for that cartridge
your alloy of acww should work out perfect
now remember shot placement is also key but it is with most any bullet
enjoy the hunt

[siamese4570]

I killed a nice 8 point last year with the LEE 170 gr boolit at about 1900 fps. I was using straight wheel weights. Worked for me.
Siamese4570

[pls1911]

Many hogs and a few deer have fallen to the Ranch Dog 165 bullet sized .310, gas checked and pushed by 25.5 to 26 grains of Reloader 7.
Velocity will be right at 1900 fps, abd your barrel should be left clean as a whistle.
Out to 100 yards, reliable, full penetration though both shoulders and spine of 180 pound hogs is always expected ...DRT every time with that shot placement.
A good alternative is the SAECO #316 shown along side the Ranch Dog in the attachment.

[akmac]

153313 This is a RD 165g shot from a Marlin 336 with a hardness of about 15. Velocity was just under 2100 fps and the powder 36g of 4350. It hit a Sitka Blacktail that was facing me at 50 yards. The shot entered the neck and the bullet was recovered under the hide on one of the hams. At the shot the buck was DRT. If you think your alloy is a little too brittle you can do wet newspaper testing. I did that with this load and modified my alloy based upon the test.

[outdoorfan]

153313 This is a RD 165g shot from a Marlin 336 with a hardness of about 15. Velocity was just under 2100 fps and the powder 36g of 4350. It hit a Sitka Blacktail that was facing me at 50 yards. The shot entered the neck and the bullet was recovered under the hide on one of the hams. At the shot the buck was DRT. If you think your alloy is a little too brittle you can do wet newspaper testing. I did that with this load and modified my alloy based upon the test.


I think you nailed down the velocity vs hardness level about perfectly, imo.

[outdoorfan]

there are few cartridges that have velocity caps that are ideal for cast
I believe the 30-30 is one of them(as are the 358 win,45-70)
as long as your accuracy is where you want it you really can't push it
to fast for that cartridge
your alloy of acww should work out perfect
now remember shot placement is also key but it is with most any bullet
enjoy the hunt



Marshall Stanton of Beartooth Bullets described a situation where he pushed a 170ish lead bullet to (I think) 2300ish fps. He hit a smallish deer in the spine with it. The bullet flattened out on the spine and didn't break it or penetrate past it. The alloy was acww. He then commented that the same load at around 16 bhn performed admirably. Speed (strike velocity) and bhn have to be balanced.

[Gunnut 45/454]

I have pushed my Lee 170 gr WCWW bullets to 1998 FPS in my Marlin 336. Any faster then accuracy falls of to unacceptable levels . And recoil becomes unpleasant- no pad. Unfortunately I haven't had the bullet tested on game yet. Got close this year maybe next time.