Alloy question for .44 Devastator

[Hickok]

Been shooting the Lyman #429640 .44 Devastator boolit out of my .44 mag Super 14 Contender. Load is 19 gr/2400 using ACWW + 2% tin.

Shot through 1 gallon filled milk jugs the boolit looses the hollowpoint portion, (no big surprise) and then continues on as a full wadcutter. Recovered boolits weigh right at 170 grs., with original weight with GC and no lube of 271grs.


First 3 jugs are exploded, burst at seams, with bits of the alloy inside, and some shrapnel holes, and the next 3 jugs have a full wadcutter holes with the boolit stopping in the 6th to 7th jug.

My question, would using 4 parts ACWW and 1 part pure lead, or maybe 3/1 ACWW and pure lead make the hollow point area more ductile and less likely to fragment?

I know the 50/50 ACWW to pure lead and then water dropped is a good hp alloy, but I don't want to do the water quench.

I realize water is a hard test of boolits, and this load would likely do fine on deer as is, just like opinions as to make the "mushroom" stay more intact.

All my cast kills have been with Lyman 429421 and 429244 up to this point.152856

[dkf]

I'd try the 3/1 and shoot them into jugs packed with wet torn up newspaper. All water is abrupt and tends to blow the nose off fairly easy.

[Tackleberry41]

Yea I would imagine hydrostatic shock of water would affect the HP differently than something more solid.

[depoloni]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128091&d=1421797980
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128092&d=1421797980
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128093&d=1421797980
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128094&d=1421797980

Hope this helps some.
EDIT: All testing done in wetstack, not water.

[Hickok]

Depoloni great charts. Can I ask what the boolits were fired into?

DFK, you have a great idea about soaked up newspaper in the jugs. Nice and convenient.

Water is pretty hard and destructive on bullets/boolits.

[depoloni]

That testing was done in wetstack. About 5 feet of newspaper - more than needed, but nice to rotate clean stock from the back to the front as things get beat up.

Personally, I would recommend an alloy with as little antimony as possible "for your load" - those PURE lead boolits performed pretty impressively, but despite the gas checks I still got leading at all but the lightest loads shown.

Based on your OP, I would think that going 3/1 or so with COWW to pure lead would be a good start, air-cooled. I tend to water drop everything admittedly, even pure lead because I can handle/inspect them immediately. You may find that you get even better ductility with a higher proportion of pure to WW. If the HPs are blowing off rather easily (the "lyman" pseudo-alloy above doesn't have as much tin as the real deal, and tended to "shatter" the HP portion off) it's likely your alloy choice is too brittle.

Mind you, I'm just a hobbyist and by no means any sort of expert. Just good at taking notes.

[Hickok]

Depoloni you did a fantastic job on your project. That had to be a lot or work and effort involved. Thanks again for sharing.

[DougGuy]

What's wrong with 50/50+2%? This is a very malleable alloy when air cooled but enough tin in it to keep it from fragmenting.

Our resident down under pig hunter uses this devastator with devastating results in wild pigs, he has posted some impressive kills and some very very impressive boolit performance, at least the ones he recovered.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?281491-A-few-pigs-with-the-44-Devastator-and-a-Ruger-96-44

depoloni, excellent post! Thanks for sharing this with us..

Edit: Also, from a 14" barrel you may have better results with the RF boolit instead of a HP. In 50/50+2% the C430-310-RF does exactly what you are hoping the devastastor will do, it mushrooms out fairly large but since there is no hp to fragment, it stays together much better and retains much of it's weight.

[fecmech]

Personally I would stay binary, strictly lead/tin and somewhere in the 15-20/1 range for the mix. IMO antimony adds nothing good if you're looking for expansion and holding the mushroom form.

[Hickok]

I was leery about the 50/50 ACWW and pure lead being too soft and leading as I also have a Winchester 94AE 20" barrel that I would like to shoot the Devastator in.

I know I can water drop and get hardness, but I want to avoid this process.


I will need to experiment with some various ACWW/ pure lead ratios and see what happens.


Really, the ACWW+2% tin load may perform nicely on deer sized game, as I saw the threads Fenring posted when I first bought the Devastator mold.

[Larry Gibson]

I know the 50/50 ACWW to pure lead and then water dropped is a good hp alloy, but I don't want to do the water quench.

Don't water quench it. Air cool for 7 - 10 days.

That's the alloy I'll use for my Contender or carbine 44 Magnum with the 249640HP. For revolvers I prefer to use a 16-1 or 20-1 lead - tin alloy;

Larry Gibson

152884

[Cowboy_Dan]

I use 50/50 COWW/pure (no added tin) in my dad's Marlin 1894 .44 Magnum. Good accuracy (with the right loads) and no leading (with anything from mild to wild) Just using NRA 50/50 lube, so no special lengths to stop leading and it all comes clean with a dry patch or two. If you haven't tried this alloy in your Winchester, you may be surprised at how clean it can run.

[iraiam]

I use Pb/Sn for hollow points and some I use Pb/Sn/Cu if I really want it tough. No Antimony at all. The bad part about adopting this was it's been more expensive, as I had to invest in some pure materials. The good part is my hollow points stay together and expand well.

[Hickory]

Been shooting the Lyman #429640 .44 Devastator boolit out of my .44 mag Super 14 Contender. Load is 19 gr/2400 using ACWW + 2% tin.

Shot through 1 gallon filled milk jugs the boolit looses the hollowpoint portion, (no big surprise) and then continues on as a full wadcutter. Recovered boolits weigh right at 170 grs., with original weight with GC and no lube of 271grs.


First 3 jugs are exploded, burst at seams, with bits of the alloy inside, and some shrapnel holes, and the next 3 jugs have a full wadcutter holes with the boolit stopping in the 6th to 7th jug.

My question, would using 4 parts ACWW and 1 part pure lead, or maybe 3/1 ACWW and pure lead make the hollow point area more ductile and less likely to fragment?

I know the 50/50 ACWW to pure lead and then water dropped is a good hp alloy, but I don't want to do the water quench.

I realize water is a hard test of boolits, and this load would likely do fine on deer as is, just like opinions as to make the "mushroom" stay more intact.

All my cast kills have been with Lyman 429421 and 429244 up to this point.152856

What you have discribed is almost identical to the test I performed when I switch from the Lyman 429421 to the Devastator.

I have found that over 1200 fps that 16/1 lead works the best for retaining boolit weight, but frontal section will still shed. Less then 1200 fps the hollow point section will shed less and the killing power is the same out to 50 yds.

No matter how much weight the boolit has lost, keep in mind, the damage it can do has already been done inside the deer. And what is left of the boolit, if it is still moving is still doing damage.

I use the 429640 HP Devastator because where I hunt there can be up to 25+ people per square mile and if I can't drop a deer within 20 yards of shooting it, more likely then not someone else will get their tag on it.

[Lloyd Smale]

I used 5050 ww/pure. any harder and the bullets tend to loose there nose rather then expand. With the gas check velocity isn't a problem with that allow. I shot a 1000 lb cow buffalo with that bullet cast out of 5050 out of my 44 mag at about 1200 fps and the two guys with me both said it was the quickest kill they've seen on a buffalo with any gun. It basically had its feet taken out from underneath it. Shot was at about 50 yards and the bullet went in behind one shoulder and at least part of it blew out the far side. That translates into penetrating two or three deer so you sure don't need it any harder. That alloy gave nice mushrooms in wet print and like I said when I went to 2 parts ww and 1 part pure I allways recovered the bullet shank with the nose blown off. Since the buffalo ive killed a couple deer and one pig with that bullet using that alloy and it preformed flawlessly.

[dubber123]

There are a lot of variables, but the last test I did with 50/50 WW-Pb+2% tin was a plain based boolit in a 4" .44 Mag. The velocity was well over 1,300 fps., and no leading at all. It also shot into 1" at 25 yards with iron sights, about as good as I can do. I was quite surprised at the lack of leading from this 9 Bhn boolit. I do know this alloy expands very well and holds together at 850 fps. You are going to be MUCH faster from your 14" barrel, so only testing will show what is going to happen. Should be great on deer.

[Hickok]

You fellows have put me on the right track and saved me a lot of time and effort.

I knew I would get some good advice from you all!

A little leading in a hunting load isn't a concern, just didn't want to have to clean a barrel that looked like a smooth bore, so I brought topic here.

Again thanks to all of you.

[Hickok]

Got out today and chronographed some loads in a few of my .44 Magnums that may be of interest. Pact 1 chronograph. 50 degrees.

All loads sized .431", Hornady gas checks, and lubed with TAC 1 LUBE. ACWW+ 2 % tin.
WW .44 mag. cases and Winchester primers.
Lyman #429640 Devastator 274gr with lube and GC, 19 gr/ Alliant 2400 powder ( new, fresh, just bought recently)

T/C Contender MGM Super 14" 1564 fps.

Win. Model 94AE 20" barrel 1619 fps.

Ruger SBH SS 7.5" barrel 1290 fps.

[gwpercle]

I don't have any cool charts, but a little experience.
Just try 50/50 and omit the water cooled dropping song and dance . It's not too soft and just might surprise you.
Out of a 44 magnum at 1200 fps , don't make the mistake of pushing them too fast, it will be a devastating load ........ Just try it once on game .
Gary

[dubber123]

It might be worth mentioning I have pushed the same 50/50 +2% alloy to 2,150 fps from a lever gun with no leading at all, and excellent accuracy. With a reasonably smooth bore, I doubt you will encounter any issues at the speeds you are running.

[Blackwater]

Hickock, I think you've gotten some real good advice above. All I can add is with the old Lee 150SWCHP that I once shot a lot of in .357. I did a good bit of experimenting with that bullet, and FWIW, I found that with straight COWW's, I needed to add about 4-6% tin to the mix to keep the malleability high enough to keep the noses from blowing off in fragments. The 50/50 mix should do about the same without such a high demand for tin, and the guys have given plenty of testimonials to that. I'd believe them completely. My experience tended, I think, to indicate that the more antimony in the mix, the more tin will be required to keep the bullet from being brittle, and having the nose shear off. At any rate, as you originally loaded them, or in 50/50, or pretty much any other alloy, I think you're in really good territory for a hunting bullet. I don't have that mold yet. So many molds, so little time and money! Good post and good replies.

[Lloyd Smale]

its a great bullet. A few years back we tried to copy it in a custom mold that would produce more then one at a time but that bullet just never shot as well as the original. To bad because making one at a time is a bit tedious.

[Hickok]

It might be worth mentioning I have pushed the same 50/50 +2% alloy to 2,150 fps from a lever gun with no leading at all, and excellent accuracy. With a reasonably smooth bore, I doubt you will encounter any issues at the speeds you are running.That is great to hear, as I want to shoot some out of my Winchester 94 AE. I was surprised at how close the velocity was between the 14" MGM barrel and the 20" Lever Action barrel. I guess the 2400 powder is an efficient burn at about 16" of barrel in this caliber/load situation, not gaining a lot after that barrel length.

Would be interesting to give H110 a try in the same barrel lengths with the boolit and see the results. Maybe another project for me in the future. Right now I am happy with the 2400 speeds and accuracy.

[Hickok]

Hickock, I think you've gotten some real good advice above. All I can add is with the old Lee 150SWCHP that I once shot a lot of in .357. I did a good bit of experimenting with that bullet, and FWIW, I found that with straight COWW's, I needed to add about 4-6% tin to the mix to keep the malleability high enough to keep the noses from blowing off in fragments. The 50/50 mix should do about the same without such a high demand for tin, and the guys have given plenty of testimonials to that. I'd believe them completely. My experience tended, I think, to indicate that the more antimony in the mix, the more tin will be required to keep the bullet from being brittle, and having the nose shear off. At any rate, as you originally loaded them, or in 50/50, or pretty much any other alloy, I think you're in really good territory for a hunting bullet. I don't have that mold yet. So many molds, so little time and money! Good post and good replies.Blackwater I completely agree. All the fellows saved me a lot of trial and error. Today the pot will get some 50/50 WW and pure lead, it's raining outside and a perfect day to enjoy casting.

[Hickok]

its a great bullet. A few years back we tried to copy it in a custom mold that would produce more then one at a time but that bullet just never shot as well as the original. To bad because making one at a time is a bit tedious. Lloyd if looks account for anything, the Devastator sure does look "nasty", along the lines of the old 45acp "flying ashtray."

My main concern for starting this topic was from reading that some casters water-quenched the 50/50 to harden, and yet have a malleable hp. As I tend to cast a large amount of boolits to always have a good supply that may set for a long time before use, I didn't want to think about whether the hardening would age soften over time. May or may not be a concern, but I just didn't want that nagging thought bugging me. Also didn't want the hassle of water quenching, as I have done it before, but would rather avoid it. Leading was also a concern, but I see it should not be a problem, and I don't mind a little leading in a hunting load as the old Indian said, "One shot good, two shots maybe, three shots never!" In practice shooting, a cleaning after 5 or 10 rounds is no hassle.

I know some shun cast hp's, and I will still be also using my tried and true SWC's that have worked excellently on game for me, just wanted to get experience with this Devastator after all the good reports and results other here have posted.

[Larry Gibson]

Out of my 8.4" Contender (was shortened from 10") barrel 19.5 gr Alliant 2400 under my 275 gr 429640HP (COWW + 2% tin, mixed 50/50 w/lead, AC'd) gives 1443 fps at 32,100 psi(M43). I consider 20 gr Alliant 2400 to be max under that bullet at a measured 34,800 psi (M43). Accuracy is excellent with both loads.

I prefer H110 though with that bullet. I use 23 gr which runs 1486 fps from the Contender barrel at 30,22 psi(M43) with even better accuracy than with the 2400. That is my hunting load in my Ruger 50th Anniversary FT with 6 1/2" barrel running 1360 fps. It runs 1575 fps out of a 16" M94 Winchester. At 25 gr H110 the Devastator runs 1705 fps out of the M94 right at 35,000 psi(M43) (psi measured in the Contender barrel).

Larry Gibson

[fredj338]

I am also a lead/tin guy when it comes to LHP. Antimony just makes the alloy brittle & the HP frags. Even with that I still got fragged noses at vel over 900fps. SO on my dev mold I had a cup point made. It does quite well at higher vel. I also had Erik @ HPMS remove the pesky gc, I don't need it for vel I shoot. The original design works well for a lower vel self defense bullet, but for hunting I want the bullet to stay together & penetrate all the way thru.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/44-272.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/44-272.jpg.html) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/44-272-1K.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/44-272-1K.jpg.html) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/44-265.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/44-265.jpg.html)

[Lloyd Smale]

I wouldn't water drop them. Your going to make them brittle and what happens with that bullet is the whole nose fractures instead of mushrooming. 5050 air cooled ww/pure works great on hps and yes it can lead in a questionable gun but like you said you don't need to go out and shoot a 100 of them. by the way I don't have ANY leading problems with them in my guns. Now if it were a plain based bullet it would probably become a problem. What ive found is any softer and accuracy suffers drastically. Any harder and accuracy may improve but the bullet just doesn't do what a hp is designed to do.
Lloyd if looks account for anything, the Devastator sure does look "nasty", along the lines of the old 45acp "flying ashtray."

My main concern for starting this topic was from reading that some casters water-quenched the 50/50 to harden, and yet have a malleable hp. As I tend to cast a large amount of boolits to always have a good supply that may set for a long time before use, I didn't want to think about whether the hardening would age soften over time. May or may not be a concern, but I just didn't want that nagging thought bugging me. Also didn't want the hassle of water quenching, as I have done it before, but would rather avoid it. Leading was also a concern, but I see it should not be a problem, and I don't mind a little leading in a hunting load as the old Indian said, "One shot good, two shots maybe, three shots never!" In practice shooting, a cleaning after 5 or 10 rounds is no hassle.

I know some shun cast hp's, and I will still be also using my tried and true SWC's that have worked excellently on game for me, just wanted to get experience with this Devastator after all the good reports and results other here have posted.

[DougGuy]

Hickok at the velocities you are wanting to run your devastator, it might be a good thing to pick up a RF mold and just try some of the slightly heavier flat noses out of the Lee mold. With the gas check you can run softer, I am having great accuracy with 50/50+2% alloy I can dig a thumbnail into, and you would still get expansion. It may even prove to be a more effective killer if it comes to be that you get the same or near the same expansion as a HP, but the boolit retains a much higher percentage of it's weight because it isn't a HP. It's definitely worth comparing the two.

[Hickok]

Doug I know whereof you are thinking. I wish Lee would make a .44 mold that is along the lines of their 358-158RF in about 260-270 weight, I would buy it immediately! I really like that boolit in my .357's. The 310 heavy weight RF they make is just to heavy for my needs.

I have an older .44mag Smith Model 29 that has large .433" cylinder throats that I was thinking of ordering a custom mold for and a.44 RF or a WFN boolit in about 260-270 gr. would be great.

The Keith SWCs have always performed great on deer and blackbear, just broadening my experience and fun with new ideas, as we can never have too many boolit molds!:lovebooli

I just cast some Devastators 50/50 COWW/Pure Lead, now I will let them set for about two weeks and give them a try.

[DougGuy]

Somebody makes a mold that is the Lee RF boolit with the gas check shank deleted off it, the boolit is shorter and about 280gr I want to say. Don't know the thread it's in at the moment but I thought it was a good idea.

Seems to me like the longer nosed boolits like the LFN have to be flung pretty hard to be accurate, at least they do in my 7 1/2" SBH, but the Lee RF nose profile is shorter and it stabilizes at a slower velocity so I don't use the LFN boolits.

[Mal Paso]

MP Molds makes the Devastator with out gas check and if you can wait for a group buy you can get it with no pins or blank pins. It's the right weight and was a very good RNFP even before Lyman put a hole in the front.

If it sounds interesting email Miha, he seems too busy to update his website. You never know what he might have in stock.
He cuts 44s .432" and .434".

[Grendel99]

I've had great success with the Lyman 429640 on several deer. All but one dropped on the spot. The one buck that didn't, went maybe 10 yards with a huge blood trail. I recovered one from a buck shot head on. Found the bullet in the opposite side knee. Sheered it's nose off but still retained 200 of its original 275 grs. Cast of ACWW with a touch of tin and 20 grs of 2400. In my Super Blackhawk Hunter they did 1350 fps with good accuracy. I plan on trying this bullet with some percentage of pure lead simply because I came into a bunch for free. While my current alloy doesn't make pretty mushrooms, it leaves nothing to be desired in the performance category on game.

It's a great bullet even cast with plain old ACWW's. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on bigger game. Hopefully I'll get to smack a hog with one before too long.