Venison and GMO corn

[outdoorfan]

Just thought I'd bring this up in case it hasn't been discussed recently.

It my understand that pretty much all corn grown in the US is GMO (genetically modified), unless it's organically raised. Being that eating a "corn-fed" deer is typically preferable by many people, has anyone given thought to their stance on GMO corn and how that is affecting the venison that many enjoy?

I for one have pretty much stopped eating any GMO corn. The deer that I hunt are about 2 miles from the nearest corn field, and I suspect probably eat some corn, although not much. I don't think I would want to bag a deer that has had a lot of its food from corn.

What are your thoughts on this matter?

[Mica_Hiebert]

All corn is gmo! Corn is a man made plant from the original plant maze. Corn cant even grow on its own without human intervention... Any one marketing corn as non gmo is taking your money and laughing all the way to the bank!

[Stewbaby]

My 'over corn' hunting spot

152822

[smokeywolf]

All corn is gmo! Corn is a man made plant from the original plant maze. Corn cant even grow on its own without human intervention... Any one marketing corn as non gmo is taking your money and laughing all the way to the bank!

Was under the impression that what is referred to today as GMOed anything means that the DNA was altered in a laboratory by the introduction of DNA from a completely different and separate species. Is that how maze became corn or was this done by crossing plants within the same or very similar DNA profile.

[starmac]

Hmph, corn doesn't grow here, for that matter neither does deer, but sure wouldn't turn either down if they did.
Beef, basically all beef eats corn, Corn is a huge part of most hogs diet, do you eat bacon, sausage, pork chops or ham,???
Chicken, eggs, hmm, well maybe the eggs don't eat corn, but you get the drift.

[jaysouth]

If you try to pin down the people who are nattering about GMO, the first thing out of their mouth is: "Someday, it might......................."

the ones I see spouting about GMO are obama voters who realized that their warnings about global warming made them look foolish.

[Piedmont]

GMO foods are illegal in Europe. Research in the USA is not undertaken because the powers that be own the politicians and universities (meaning they contribute huge amounts of money to agricultural research, so you better tow the line or we take away your money and you better not research an unpleasant to us topic).

The poster who mentioned corn being fed to cattle, hogs, chicken, etc. is right on the money. Typically beef is fattened at the end of it's life on GMO corn. I don't want to eat that. If you raised the animal you can control its diet, otherwise you are probably being contaminated to one degree or another. It isn't just the GMO aspect, look at what else goes into those animals from injectables to food.

Foods in the US don't even have to be labeled as containing GMOs. Why is that? It is because as soon as that is required many people will stop buying GMO foods.


It is all about the money and as usual, your government doesn't care about your health, they just like to pretend they do when conning you into voting for them.

[outdoorfan]

GMO foods are illegal in Europe. Research in the USA is not undertaken because the powers that be own the politicians and universities (meaning they contribute huge amounts of money to agricultural research, so you better tow the line or we take away your money and you better not research an unpleasant to us topic).

The poster who mentioned corn being fed to cattle, hogs, chicken, etc. is right on the money. Typically beef is fattened at the end of it's life on GMO corn. I don't want to eat that. If you raised the animal you can control its diet, otherwise you are probably being contaminated to one degree or another. It isn't just the GMO aspect, look at what else goes into those animals from injectables to food.

Foods in the US don't even have to be labeled as containing GMOs. Why is that? It is because as soon as that is required many people will stop buying GMO foods.


It is all about the money and as usual, your government doesn't care about your health, they just like to pretend they do when conning you into voting for them.



Yes, this is my understanding too.

My family has been cutting out pesticided gmo'ed food for awhile now, which includes the consumption of animal meat that has been contaminated with such. We grow our own chickens with organic feed (expensive). We buy beef locally (organic) at $5/lb.

I hope this brings about more discussion. My gut feeling is that most people simply aren't aware of it.

[Artful]

Was under the impression that what is referred to today as GMOed anything means that the DNA was altered in a laboratory by the introduction of DNA from a completely different and separate species. Is that how maze became corn or was this done by crossing plants within the same or very similar DNA profile.

http://www.campsilos.org/mod3/students/c_history.shtml


In the Beginning
Corn as we know it today would not exist if it weren't for the humans that cultivated and developed it. It is a human invention, a plant that does not exist naturally in the wild. It can only survive if planted and protected by humans.

Scientists believe people living in central Mexico developed corn at least 7000 years ago. It was started from a wild grass called teosinte (http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/3288/teo.htm). Teosinte looked very different from our corn today.

http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/7247817_f260.jpg

The kernels were small and were not placed close together like kernels on the husked ear of modern corn. Also known as maize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maize) Indians throughout North and South America, eventually depended upon this crop for much of their food.

From Mexico maize spread north into the Southwestern United States and south down the coast to Peru. About 1000 years ago, as Indian people migrated north to the eastern woodlands of present day North America, they brought corn with them.

When Europeans like Columbus made contact with people living in North and South America, corn was a major part of the diet of most native people. When Columbus "discovered" America, he also discovered corn. But up to this time, people living in Europe did not know about corn.

The first Thanksgiving (http://www.autopenhosting.org/mayflowerhistory/thanksgiving.html) was held in 1621. While sweet potatoes, cranberry sauce and pumpkin pie were not on the menu, Indian corn certainly would have been.
https://sercadia.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/corn1.jpg

Today there are many kinds of corn. The most common types are flint, dent, sweet and of course popcorn, all created thru selective genetic breeding to modify the original genome pattern.

GMO
noun
abbreviation

1.genetically modified organism: an organism or microorganism whose genetic material has been altered by means of genetic engineering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_organism

A GMO is an organism whose genome has been altered by the techniques of genetic engineering so that its DNA contains one or more genes not normally found there.

Note : A high percentage of food crops, such as corn and soybeans, are genetically modified.

A more specifically defined type of GMO is a "Transgenic Organism". This is an organism whose genetic makeup has been altered by the addition of genetic material from another, unrelated organism.

This should not be confused with the more general way in which "GMO" is used to classify genetically altered organisms, as typically GMOs are organisms whose genetic makeup has been altered without the addition of genetic material from an unrelated organism.

The first genetically modified mouse was in 1981,[1] the first plant was produced in 1983 [2] and the first genetically modified human (modified mitochondrial DNA) was born on July 21, 1997.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heirloom_plant


An heirloom plant, heirloom variety, heritage fruit (Australia and New Zealand), or (especially in Ireland and the UK) heirloom vegetable is an old cultivar that is "still maintained by gardeners and farmers particularly in isolated or ethnic communities".[1]

These may have been commonly grown during earlier periods in human history, but are not used in modern large-scale agriculture.

In some parts of the world, notably the European Union, it is illegal to sell seeds of cultivars that are not listed as approved for sale.[2]

The Henry Doubleday Research Association, now known as Garden Organic, responded to this legislation by setting up the Heritage Seed Library to preserve seeds of as many of the older cultivars as possible. However, seed banks alone have not been able to provide sufficient insurance against catastrophic loss.[2]

In some jurisdictions, laws have been proposed that would make seed saving itself illegal.[3]

Many heirloom vegetables have kept their traits through open pollination, while fruit varieties such as apples have been propagated over the centuries through grafts and cuttings. The trend of growing heirloom plants in gardens has been returning in popularity in North America and Europe in recent decades.

https://bonnieplants.com/library/what-is-an-heirloom-what-is-a-hybrid/


There is a lot of confusion out there regarding hybrid vs. GMO vs. heirloom plants, especially when it comes to tomatoes. What’s the difference? This simple guide sorts it out for you. (Bonnie Plants offers both hybrid and heirloom varieties, but every plant we sell is non-GMO.)

Hybrid Plants
A hybrid vegetable is created when plant breeders intentionally cross-pollinate two different varieties of a plant, aiming to produce an offspring, or hybrid, that contains the best traits of each of the parents. Cross-pollination is a natural process that occurs within members of the same plant species.

In hybridization, pollination is carefully controlled to ensure that the right plants are crossed to achieve the desired combination of characteristics, such as bigger size or better disease resistance. The process of developing a hybrid typically requires many years.

One example is Juliet, a 1999 All-America Selections winner. This Roma-style grape tomato offers great taste and productivity along with improved disease resistance to increase success in the garden.
Juliet Roma Grape Tomato
https://contentzone-bonnieplants1.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/roma-grape-juliet-tomato-600x600.jpg

Another is Sun Gold, a prolific yellow cherry tomato that’s so sweet and delicious, it’s like candy from the garden.
http://bonnieplants.com/wp-content/uploads/sun-gold-tomatos-on-vine-web-199x300.jpg

In general, hybrids offer some combination of these favorable traits: dependability, less required care, early maturity, better yield, improved flavor, specific plant size, and/or disease resistance.

Hybrid vegetables typically look like the veggies you’d find at a supermarket.

GMO Plants
GMO plants, on the other hand, are the result of genetic engineering. (“GMO” stands for “genetically modified organism.”) This is a process during which the plant’s DNA is altered in a way that cannot occur naturally, and sometimes includes the insertion of genes from other species. All of our plants are grown from non-GMO seeds.

Heirloom Plants

Heirlooms come from seed that has been handed down for generations in a particular region or area, hand-selected by gardeners for a special trait. Heirloom vegetables are open-pollinated, which means they’re pollinated by insects or wind without human intervention. How experts define heirlooms can vary, but typically they are at least 50 years old, and are often pre-WWII varieties. In addition, they tend to remain stable in their characteristics from one year to the next. Many older people have grown the same heirloom tomatoes for many decades.

Many gardeners agree that most heirloom varieties boast greater flavor than that found in hybrids, especially among tomatoes.

Bonnie’s heirloom tomato varieties are clearly marked on the plant tags and trays.

While hybrid plants typically yield a crop that is uniform in both appearance and timing, heirloom vegetables produce a “mixed bag” harvest.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-v3Gmoa88X6Y/UZ0Gyg9iXRI/AAAAAAAAZvk/qA2W5TpKkSw/s1600/heirloom+tomato+varieties.jpg
The harvest may come in less predictably, and fruit size can vary greatly even on the same plant.

Despite their sometimes odd looks and quirky ways, heirlooms bring lots to the table (literally!).
https://contentzone-bonnieplants1.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/pink-brandywine-heirloom-tomato-600x600.jpg
The Amish heirloom tomato Pink Brandywine, for example, yields fruit with an unbeatable flavor in shades reminiscent of a glass of Cabernet.
http://www.doublehelixfarms.com/sites/default/files/arkansas%20traveler3.jpg
Arkansas Traveler, a Southern favorite, originated in Northwest Arkansas prior to 1900 and gradually found its way across the South to North Carolina. Resistant to cracking and disease, this beauty yields delicious tomatoes under typical Southern summer conditions–high heat, high humidity, and drought.

What Kind Is Right for Me?
In the battle of hybrid vs. GMO vs. heirloom plants, we suggest growing both hybrid and heirloom vegetables (especially tomatoes!). Doing so will ensure a reliable, flavorful harvest that offers a lot of variety and, truly, the best of both worlds.


And to further muddy your waters
http://foodbabe.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/OrganicVSnongmo-3.jpg
http://www.bigblogofgardening.com/real-definition-gmo-may-surprise/


According to the USDA’s Glossary of Agricultural Biotechnology Terms, a GMO is “an organism produced through genetic modification.”, which we all knew. However, the same glossary defines genetic modification as, “the production of heritable improvements in plants or animals for specific uses, via either genetic engineering or other more traditional methods.“



Genetic engineering: Manipulation of an organism’s genes by introducing, eliminating or rearranging specific genes using the methods of modern molecular biology, particularly those techniques referred to as recombinant DNA techniques.

Genetically engineered organism (GEO): An organism produced through genetic engineering.

-USDA
Wow. So the USDA’s definition of GMO includes traditional methods like plant breeding via hybridizing (controlled cross breeding by horticulturists); natural selection of open pollinated heirloom varieties (because you’re selecting for certain traits, hence genetically modifying the plant); and natural mutations.

So basically, under the USDA’s definition, anytime a plant is either manipulated in a laboratory, greenhouse, or (possibly) by nature, it’s considered genetically modified. That sort of muddies the waters, doesn’t it? Plants are “improved” for beauty, size, taste, color, or a number of other traits – some to feed us, some just to enjoy. And sometimes that occurs without our intervention, but we like it, so we save the seeds of that plant so that we can grow more of them.

By and large, and what most of us assume when any media organization trots out the word GMO, they’re referring to genetically engineered organisms (which the USDA glossary abbreviates as GEO). Most of us use the terms interchangeably, so why does it matter?

It matters enormously when laws are written. If a law is enacted that restricts GMO crops from being grown in a certain area or included in certain food products , it’s essential that the wording of that law be precise and restrict only those crops that are genetically engineered, and not those modified by traditional, age-old and naturally occurring methods. As we know all too well, if a loophole exists in any law, corporations will find a way to exploit it. And it takes years to re-write a law once it’s on the books, during which time all kinds of damage can be done.

So let’s start using the term GEO instead of GMO. Just so we’re all on the same page.

[starmac]

Lots of organic farmers find themself working the night shift to make a living.
I hear the human race in the US is on the verge of extinction from eating gmo foodstuffs, so the government is bringing in lots of folks from the middle east, to prop up the population.
What I see myself happening is gmo foods making lots of folks fat and some what lazy. lol

[Lloyd Smale]

let me crack a beer and light up a cig and think about my answer:popcorn:

[Rick Hodges]

Hahaha we are all genetically modified....the Darwin factor. The world was starving so we bred livestock that produced more food....and plants that resisted disease and pests and yielded more. Oh no, there are too many people now...how evil that we discovered how to feed them. Lets just go back to those glory years ...you know when we were hunter gatherers and lived to be maybe 30 yrs old.
........and while we are at it lets eliminate all vaccines and let our kids cripple up with polio and have newborns deformed by rubella, how awful we found out how to prevent smallpox and actually stopped it from spreading and................. :groner:

[jsizemore]

Since your worried about eating critters that eat GMO laced food crops, I guess the next boolit you cast will be for the head of lettuce you hunt.

[Newboy]

It seems to me that the genetically modified grains have already begun to affect some people's reasoning abilities.

But, there have always been people afraid of change.

[bedbugbilly]

Here on our farm, we don't have a problem with the deer eating from our corn fields. We've trained them to be "specific vegetarians" . . . they only eat organically grown vegetables that we plant in a special plot for them. The nice thing about it is that while they are eating in the patch, the patch is "naturally fertilized" by them as they munch. Now if we can only get their ecoli infections cleared up . . .

[sparky45]

let me crack a beer and light up a cig and think about my answer:popcorn:
Lloyd's got the right attitude, IMO.[smilie=w:

[GhostHawk]

Control is an illusion. If you think you can control your exposure to GMO foods think again.

The vast majority do not change the end result, the grain at all. And the majority of GMO's at this point prevent damage to plants from corn borer, or are "Roundup ready".

There is a lot of hype and unproven claims regarding GMO foods. If this worry's you, well I'll leave you with your illusions intact. But in my opinion there are bigger things to worry about.

Like what you are going to do when all the hungry people of the world descend on us like locusts demanding food. The population is quickly outstripping our ability to feed it. And people who are afraid of GMO want to take away one of the few tools that actually work!

[outdoorfan]

Hahaha we are all genetically modified....the Darwin factor. The world was starving so we bred livestock that produced more food....and plants that resisted disease and pests and yielded more. Oh no, there are too many people now...how evil that we discovered how to feed them. Lets just go back to those glory years ...you know when we were hunter gatherers and lived to be maybe 30 yrs old.
........and while we are at it lets eliminate all vaccines and let our kids cripple up with polio and have newborns deformed by rubella, how awful we found out how to prevent smallpox and actually stopped it from spreading and................. :groner:


I definitely don't agree with these opinions. Sorry!


Since your worried about eating critters that eat GMO laced food crops, I guess the next boolit you cast will be for the head of lettuce you hunt.

Well, like I said, the nearest corn field is a couple miles away. I still haven't completely given up all gmo yet, and whackin' deer is a lot of fun.


Here on our farm, we don't have a problem with the deer eating from our corn fields. We've trained them to be "specific vegetarians" . . . they only eat organically grown vegetables that we plant in a special plot for them. The nice thing about it is that while they are eating in the patch, the patch is "naturally fertilized" by them as they munch. Now if we can only get their ecoli infections cleared up . . .

This brings up a good point. I've read first hand accounts of where the animals naturally choose the non-gmo grains when they have a choice between the two.


let me crack a beer and light up a cig and think about my answer:popcorn:

Yeah, let's keep it light-hearted. I realize people will polarize just like in other areas, but I'm more interested in finding out where the percentages are on people that are aware of this vs those who aren't, etc...

[William Yanda]

If my understanding of human digestion is correct, everything we eat is broken down to the molecular level, so it can pass from the digestive system to the circulatory system, the blood. Given that fact, please explain to me how GMO foods differ in effect from non-GMO foods.
I lean toward the anti GMO crowd peddling a bunch of hooey school, but am willing to be convinced otherwise.
Respectfully,
Bill

[WILCO]

What are your thoughts on this matter?

I don't care.

[jcren]

GMO grains may be bad, but as a livestock feed, many commercial producers and feedlots rely on the cheapest source of protein for weight gain. Depending on regional availability, that may be chicken litter(what they scrape up in a poultry barn), chicken byproduct meal(see above plus blood, bone and feathers), urea(concentrated urine or produced from pig and chicken waste), or even meal from dead animals(why "mad cow" spread so fast in Europe). I am a meat and tators guy, but having been involved in cattle my whole life, I am greatful we butcher our own.

[StolzerandSons]

If you eat anything that is pre-packaged or boxed you are probably eating GMO corn, it is in nearly every ready made product on the shelves these days.
I personally have no problem with GMO products from an edible standpoint because farmers have been crossbreeding plants and animals for 1000's of years to improve the traits in them. Doing it in the lab just means you can make the jump in one step instead of ten seasons of growth. Even heritage seeds which we grow in our garden are the product of generations of cross pollinating to achieve the best possible veggies.

What I have a problem with is companies being allowed to sue the farmer next door who isn't using their product because the wind, birds, bees carried pollen from a specific patented GMO product to a field that isn't using that product. I understand that seed labs spend lots of money on R&D to develop and patent a product(seed) but they should not be allowed to sue the guy next door when their product contaminates his crop.

As for the deer, we don't grow corn on my farm but we do grow other rotational crops and I've yet to see any abnormalities with the deer...since my family has owned and farmed this same piece of land since 1868(6 generations) we probably would have noticed if things were going wrong with the crops or as a result of what we plant or the products we use to bring those crops to market.

For those who think they aren't eating GMO's don't kid yourself, even if you grow everything yourself from heritage seeds, grind your own flour and milk your own livestock you are still eating modified foods...nothing today is even close to the animal or plant it was 1000 years ago or even 100 years ago. If it was it wouldn't survive because the bugs(viruses, bacteria, et. al.) we have today would kill it.

[Plate plinker]

Hybridization is no big deal to me, but I am undecided on the Trans DNA thing until I find more good information. As for cattle I have worked a cow or two and realize most people have no idea what ranchers actually do when raising beef.

[KenH]

let me crack a beer and light up a cig and think about my answer:popcorn:

We really NEED a "Like" button! :)

[jcwit]

Heaven forbid we eat GMO anything, all the while on the average we all live longer.

[oldblinddog]

Was under the impression that what is referred to today as GMOed anything means that the DNA was altered in a laboratory by the introduction of DNA from a completely different and separate species. Is that how maze became corn or was this done by crossing plants within the same or very similar DNA profile.

Thinking that GMO is harmful to you is ignorant and closed minded. This isn't Franken-corn people!

And urea is not "concentrated urine". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea

[JSnover]

Other predators don't seem to mind that we eat GMO foods.

[jcren]

And urea is not "concentrated urine".https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea

While that was intended as a simplification of the process, urea is indeed derived from urine and other nitrogen rich waste, as it is primarily a by product of protein metabolism.
Remember, wiki is an open posting site, not a proper dictionary, and can be edited by anyone.

[Piedmont]

Selective breeding is not the same as gene alteration. Gene alteration is pretending to be God, it is Dr. Frankenstein's monster. They do not make sure there are no long-term deleterious effects because we need to get this on the market so we can make more money. We have already been green lighted by the US gov't. If there are long-term problems the tax payers will provide what monetary bailout is necessary. If people die we were just doing what was necessary to "feed the world". We are too big to fail and own the politicians.

You little people just eat the processed and genetically altered foods we tell you. There is nothing to see here. Move along people.

[farmerjim]

I grow my own GMO field corn to bait the deer in to my fields.
The ones with three eyes seem to like it better.
Did I mention I can see the nuclear plant from my deer stand.

[montana_charlie]

Gene alteration is pretending to be God,
Gene alteration is using knowledge and skills that God enabled us to acquire.
How we use those skills is subject to ethical and moral judgements, but those would be more in play if the gene alteration was being performed on God's children, don't you think?

[HABCAN]

IIRC most if not all beef in Alberta is barley-fed..........we don't have yellow fat on the steaks in the supermarkets.

[JSnover]

Selective breeding is not the same as gene alteration.
The intent is the same, just a more effective method and we're not talking about adding hormones or chemicals. If GMO grains could be made to resist parasites and drought and then be grown in Africa to alleviate food shortages, I think God would let it pass.

[472x1B/A]

I don't care.

ME TOO!

I have worked at 7 different grain elevators since 1994. If you could see what I have seen you would never eat ANY foods not grown by your self, to include meats or store bought foods that have anything to do with corn, soybeans, wheat, or oats.

[Hannibal]

We really NEED a "Like" button! :)

You ain't kiddin'. Deer eatin' GMO corn . . . . Holy Moses!

[dragon813gt]

ME TOO!

I have worked at 7 different grain elevators since 1994. If you could see what I have seen you would never eat ANY foods not grown by your self, to include meats or store bought foods that have anything to do with corn, soybeans, wheat, or oats.

And if you ever worked in a restaurant you would never eat out again :laugh:

I'm not a fan of GMOs because the long term effects are not known. But I have a bigger issue w/ high fructose corn syrup and sugar being added to everything. At least sugar is natural.

[Hannibal]

If you eat anything from the supermarket, then you are a fan.

Subsistence homesteaders MIGHT not be included, but I really doubt it.

[dragon813gt]

If you eat anything from the supermarket, then you are a fan.

No, being the only option doesn't mean I'm a fan. I buy as much from local farmers as I can. And I have a garden at home. I eat as little as possible from the grocery store. It's pretty much impossible to not eat GMO at this point. But it doesn't mean I have to like it.

[xs11jack]

I heard that farmers can not save GMO seed and plant it the next year, they must buy new seed every year. This is because GMO seed is patented.
Ole Jack

[bedbugbilly]

This is not intended as a "poke" at the OP by any means. It's just another "general observation". I already posted once but I've enjoyed reading this thread.

What always amazes me is this . . . a lot of the folks against GMO and other such things are those "free thinkers" that also want to "hug trees". Again . . this is not a poke at the OP or any other who have posted. I live about 35 miles from the Republik of Ann Arbor (in MI) which, without getting political here . . . is rather on the "liberal side". All natural foods, anti this and anti that . . . but the point I am heading to is that it always amazes me how there are so many that way who want everything "natural" . . but have no trouble protesting for legalized marijuana, etc. and while I personally am not against it for "true" medicinal needs (I wished it was available when my Dad was dying from cancer 20 years ago) . . there are so many who want it and think nothing of sucking in all that weed smoke in to their lungs and bodies - or worse yet, do it around their children and expose them to it as well. Granted, not all are like that and some have their firm beliefs about "natural" things . . . but there are plenty who want to "talk the talk but not walk the walk". Just a simple observation on my part . . .

I have lived on our farm for a good many moons and have seen a boat load of harvest seasons come and go . . . and I can well remember when crops failed due to fungus, insects, etc. The demand is ever increasing for food but then when steps are taken and advances are made to insure that a crop WON'T fail due to insects, fungus, etc. . . well "heaven forbid". And then on the other hand, there is a demand for food . . . just look at the demand on local food pantry organizations. The majority of it is very legitimate for folks who are out of work and need the help . . and that is what it is all about . . . helping others. But, there are also those who are looking for a "free ride". This past week, I saw a field of pumpkins getting plowed under . . . Halloween is over and the production was more than what sales warranted.
All I could think of was "what a waste". Those pumpkins could have gone to local food pantries . . . but then they would have just sat there as nobody today knows how to cook pumpkins or can it for use . . . it's too easy to just buy "prepared food". And like has already been said . . . everything we eat today has been altered to some extent and to think otherwise is to be living in a dream world. IMHO

[Hannibal]

No, being the only option doesn't mean I'm a fan. I buy as much from local farmers as I can. And I have a garden at home. I eat as little as possible from the grocery store. It's pretty much impossible to not eat GMO at this point. But it doesn't mean I have to like it.

On the contrary, you appear to present yourself as a aficionado. Yes?

[Plate plinker]

I heard that farmers can not save GMO seed and plant it the next year, they must buy new seed every year. This is because GMO seed is patented.
Ole Jack

That true with most all Seed bought from the likes of Monsanto DeKalb...........you name it. They will come after you if you steal their research.

[Hannibal]

That true with most all Seed bought from the likes of Monsanto DeKalb...........you name it. They will come after you if you steal their research.

Seems 'THEY' include cross-pollination into their definition of 'stealing'.

Interesting. Seems like 'THEY' should be the one's liable for the cross-pollination. But, as usual, no one cares what I think.

[dragon813gt]

On the contrary, you appear to present yourself as a aficionado. Yes?

Where did I say that? You having trouble reading?

[Hannibal]

You are attempting to goad me into an altercation on several threads. Not gonna play that game. Good evening, Sir.

[dragon813gt]

You are attempting to goad me into an altercation on several threads. Not gonna play that game. Good evening, Sir.

I could say the same for you. My question was serious. What makes you think I'm an aficionado? I haven't posted one thing that could lead someone to think that.

[rtracy2001]

Back to the original question. . .

Deer a ruminants, like cattle. They can eat and extract nutrients from almost anything. Cattle in India have been known to subsist on cardboard and other detritus found in the streets of large cities. Deer in these parts overwinter on bitterbrush, tree branches, and anything else plant-based that they can find. They still taste good eating that, so I doubt GMO corn is really going to hurt them much.

[Jpholla]

"There's no such thing as a free lunch." "If something seems too good to be true, it probably is." Sayings like these come to my mind. As I understand it, corn contains toxins. Specifically, I think it is some of the oils in it. It is supposedly designed this way to make sick large animals that could decimate the next generation of seeds by eating them all. Some animals can tolerate certain amounts of these toxins found in corn and other foods. But there is a chance that when plants are selectively bred or laboratory modified, the toxins can be multiplied or even new toxins from other added DNA can end up there. Scientists pretend to understand a great deal much more than they really do. About 95% of our DNA is shared with apes. About 11% IIRC, is shared with yeast. Genetics is unbelievably complicated and no one truly understands it, however much they pretend. As a side-note, I recall a documentary on ancient Meso-America stating that only the wealthiest were allowed to eat corn. According to skeletal remains, these people who lived on corn were far less healthy than the common people. Makes you wonder. Something is for sure, something or some things are destroying people's health. Something is causing an explosion in diseases like Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, autism, etc.

[jcwit]

Something is for sure, something or some things are destroying people's health. Something is causing an explosion in diseases like Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, autism, etc.

Older age, we're living longer. Simple as that.

[MaryB]

WRONG! GMO has DNA from a species that is NOT corn. You are talking about hybridization which is selective breeding to get the desired traits.


All corn is gmo! Corn is a man made plant from the original plant maze. Corn cant even grow on its own without human intervention... Any one marketing corn as non gmo is taking your money and laughing all the way to the bank!

[jcwit]

WRONG! GMO has DNA from a species that is NOT corn. You are talking about hybridization which is selective breeding to get the desired traits.

And that makes it bad?

[MaryB]

Please tell me how you selectively breed corn with a bacteria that produces BT toxin? It is IMPOSSIBLE! GMO is putting DNA from an unrelated organism into corn or wheat or soybeans. Someyhing that would happen so rarely in nature that it would not be a part of evolution like hybridization is. Hybrids are taking pollen from a RELATED species and using it to pollinate. So a hybrid tomato is crossed with another tomato and not with some gene from who knows where!


The intent is the same, just a more effective method and we're not talking about adding hormones or chemicals. If GMO grains could be made to resist parasites and drought and then be grown in Africa to alleviate food shortages, I think God would let it pass.

[MaryB]

Until long term studies have been done (and not by the seed companies!) we do not know what effect it will have on us. DNA from what we eat can pass into our blood stream. BT corn has DNA from bacteria that produce BT toxin... do we need our bodies to start producing it? To many unknowns. I eat very little prepared food, and a lot of my vegetables this year have come from my own garden grown from heirloom seeds and fertilized with organic fertilizer and compost from my own yard and kitchen. Beef I buy is grass fed and organic.

So keep on buying untested food(basically a drug!) that is having totally unknown consequences on long term health.


And that makes it bad?

[jcwit]

Right, and they should have done the same when good old Loui brought out the smallpox vaccine.

[jcwit]

Let's sock it to the farmer again.

[Duckiller]

Farmers buy seed corn every year because commercial corn is a hybrid and the corn they raise will not give them the corn they want the next year. GMO may not be great but no one has found any problems with it yet. May need more long term tests but I want to eat in the meantime.

[Piedmont]

Gene alteration is using knowledge and skills that God enabled us to acquire.
How we use those skills is subject to ethical and moral judgements, but those would be more in play if the gene alteration was being performed on God's children, don't you think?

I suppose that would be a degree worse but God's children are unknowingly (in most cases) being subjected to eating plants that have been altered and eating animals that are fed altered plants.

[Piedmont]

The intent is the same, just a more effective method and we're not talking about adding hormones or chemicals. If GMO grains could be made to resist parasites and drought and then be grown in Africa to alleviate food shortages, I think God would let it pass.

But look at what you are saying: God got the creation wrong and if we can just tweak it you think God will give your alteration to his genetic code a pass. Really?

"Aw shucks, guess I did screw that up. You're right little man. Good on you!" Somehow I just can't see that.

[jcwit]

But look at what you are saying: God got the creation wrong and if we can just tweak it you think God will give your alteration to his genetic code a pass. Really?

"Aw shucks, guess I did screw that up. You're right little man. Good on you!" Somehow I just can't see that.

With that logic why do you mow your lawn, cut your hair, or cloth your body? Did not God make all these perfect as well, with no help from man. And further, why would go to a Dr.?

Was not man given all things here on earth for his use, does this not include his brain to use things and improve them also? If not, then we should return to the stone age.

[Jpholla]

Older age, we're living longer. Simple as that.

Possibly, but not all these "brain diseases" affect "old people" and also, while a larger percentage of the population is living to be older, there have always been people living to be old, and before around the 1950's these types of diseases were much, much rarer.

[jcwit]

Possibly, but not all these "brain diseases" affect "old people" and also, while a larger percentage of the population is living to be older, there have always been people living to be old, and before around the 1950's these types of diseases were much, much rarer.

And those who DID live to be older were much, much rarer as well.

Along these lines think of the overall picture. My dad smoked all of his life, and lived to the age of 80, but very few smokers live to 80.

[Piedmont]

And those who DID live to be older were much, much rarer as well.


Are you kidding me? You just admonished me for mowing my lawn and cutting my hair in another post and gave lip service to God. Did you ever check the ages in Genesis? Also, much of modern improvement in longevity is from eliminating infant mortality. There were lots of old people 100-200 years ago but infant mortality was high. It skews the averages.

[jcwit]

Are you kidding me? You just admonished me for mowing my lawn and cutting my hair in another post and gave lip service to God. Did you ever check the ages in Genesis? Also, much of modern improvement in longevity is from eliminating infant mortality. There were lots of old people 100-200 years ago but infant mortality was high. It skews the averages.

No I was not kidding. This is after a 1 minute Google search.

~http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science_of_longevity/2013/09/life_expectancy_history_public_health_and_medical_ advances_that_lead_to.html


~Photo courtesy of Kentucky Cabinet for Health and Family Services
The most important difference between the world today and 150 years ago isn’t airplane flight or nuclear weapons or the Internet. It’s lifespan. We used to live 35 or 40 years on average in the United States, but now we live almost 80. We used to get one life. Now we get two.

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/Authors/laura_helmuth-authorbio.png Laura Helmuth (http://www.slate.com/authors.laura_helmuth.html) Laura Helmuth is Slate's science and health editor.









You may well be living your second life already. Have you ever had some health problem that could have killed you if you’d been born in an earlier era? Leave aside for a minute the probabilistic ways you would have died in the past—the smallpox that didn’t kill you because it was eradicated by a massive global vaccine drive (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/su48a6.htm), the cholera you never contracted because you drink filtered and chemically treated water. Did some specific medical treatment save your life? It’s a fun conversation starter: Why are you not dead yet? It turns out almost everybody has a story, but we rarely hear them; life-saving treatments have become routine. I asked around, and here is a small sample of what would have killed my friends and acquaintances:

[jcwit]

Are you kidding me? You just admonished me for mowing my lawn and cutting my hair in another post and gave lip service to God. Did you ever check the ages in Genesis? Also, much of modern improvement in longevity is from eliminating infant mortality. There were lots of old people 100-200 years ago but infant mortality was high. It skews the averages.

Neither you nor I have any idea what the average was in the time of Genesis.

You claiming "lots" is nothing more that a subjective term. Lots has no meaning as to numbers.

[jcwit]

Are you kidding me? You just admonished me for mowing my lawn and cutting my hair in another post and gave lip service to God. Did you ever check the ages in Genesis? Also, much of modern improvement in longevity is from eliminating infant mortality. There were lots of old people 100-200 years ago but infant mortality was high. It skews the averages.


admonish
[ad-mon-ish] /ædˈmɒn ɪʃ/
Spell Syllables



Synonyms (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/source-synonyms)
Examples (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/source-example-sentences)
Word Origin (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/source-word-origin)


verb (used with object) 1. to caution, advise, or counsel against something.

2. to reprove or scold, especially in a mild and good-willed manner: The teacher admonished him about excessive noise.

There is the meaning of admonish, all I was doing was pointing out the lack of your logic, no scolding involved.

Hey, even I mow my yard, or at least I used to.

[Piedmont]

jcwit, Actually I am 54 and, no, I have never been saved by modern medicine. I have had many people I know die, often I think modern medicine and modern lifestyles helped them along, and am now growing my own food with heirloom seeds, no less. The last time I saw a doctor was long ago. You have handled this verbal jousting well so I will stop now but with one exception. If you look at Genesis and actually believe it, rather than thinking it a fairy tale, the normal lifespans back than were incredible to a modern mind.

By the way, the first to clothe man wasn't man, it was God. That is a passage worth looking at and thinking about. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. What did God clothe them with? It wasn't fig leaves.

I'll stop now. I'm not much for arguing but have been looking into this GMO issue the last year and find it disturbing. Peace.

[jcwit]

jcwit, Actually I am 54 and, no, I have never been saved by modern medicine. I have had many people I know die, often I think modern medicine and modern lifestyles helped them along, and am now growing my own food with heirloom seeds, no less. The last time I saw a doctor was long ago. You have handled this verbal jousting well so I will stop now but with one exception. If you look at Genesis and actually believe it, rather than thinking it a fairy tale, the normal lifespans back than were incredible to a modern mind.

By the way, the first to clothe man wasn't man, it was God. That is a passage worth looking at and thinking about. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. What did God clothe them with? It wasn't fig leaves.

I'll stop now. I'm not much for arguing but have been looking into this GMO issue the last year and find it disturbing. Peace.

I have been saved by Faith & modern medicine, had polio at the age of 13, parents were told I'd likely not live, I did, I was told I'd never walk again, I did, in fact I served 8 years in the U.S. Army. Way back in 2000 came down with cancer, Faith & modern medicine brought thru a sickness the Dr. said I never live thru 2 months.

I also believe in Genesis, but no one has any idea what the average life span of the average person living at that time was, whether one of the tribes or not.

Yes God clothed man & woman with skins, it is written in the book as such. Genesis 3:21

Man has invented many things, meds incl. with the mind God has given him.

[Idaho Mule]

Wow!!! This thing BLEW UP!!! Agriculture is agriculture folks. If you're gonna whine about it make sure not to do it with a mouthful of food. JW

[jcwit]

Wow!!! This thing BLEW UP!!! Agriculture is agriculture folks. If you're gonna whine about it make sure not to do it with a mouthful of food. JW

That it is, and how right you are................

[Rockydog]

Gentlemen, The BT in GMO BT corn stands for bacillus thuringiensis, a naturally occurring bacteria in soil that has insecticidal properties. Corn was modified to produce this bacteria to control corn ear worms and rootworms. If you've ever husked sweet corn and found ear worms in the kernals you might feel differently about the use of BT corn. The root worms attack and destroy the corn's root system. This leads to much lower yields because the corn cannot absorb nutrients from the soil and the corn plant root system cannot support the plant. It simply falls over and dies. 20 Years ago we controlled root worms on the corn by using Organo Phosphate Pesticides. This stuff was so deadly that 2 teaspoons full would kill a full grown cow in about a half hour. People cried and whined about these terrible insecticides and their indiscriminate killing of earthworms and other beneficial insecticides. In response geneticists came up with BT corn that produced a relatively harmless, corm worm specific, natural bacterium. For their efforts and the dollars they invested they get only belly aching from those who don't know the background and progress this represents. By the way, bacillus thuringiensis bacterium has had the approval for ORGANIC FARM use for over 50 years. Organic farmers may apply the bacterium directly to soils and crops with wheeled equipment and crop dusting planes. So much for organic purity.

This goes right along with RBST free milk. All milk from all mammals contains Somatatrophins. The milk from ALL cows contains, appropriately named, Bovine Somatatrophin (BST). In the 1980s Monsanto developed a way to manufacture synthetic BST. They did this in much the same way that we manufacture human insulin. The BST producing gene is spliced to a fast growing bacteria. The bacteria is killed by pasteurization leaving behind the recombinant BST (rBST). Cows injected with rBST eat more feed and produce more milk. This is done in the same sized facilities, requiring the same capital investment with the same labor cost as that cow producing less milk. BST and rBST are virtually indistinguishable in milk both in structure and quantity. More importantly, both are simple proteins that are completely digested in the human stomach with NO hormonal properties. The resulting efficiencies are one of the things that keep some farmers farming. Consumers want the best food, bug free, GMO free, hormone free, disease free, etc. And they want it cheap. Sorry folks. No such thing as a free lunch.

Sorry for the rant but I worked as farmer from the age of about 6 until I was 32. Then, for the last 30 years, I have worked in on farm quality control for a major food manufacturer. It gets really frustrating to listen to the buzzwords come and go, to watch farmers continuously try to meet consumer expectations and get no compensation for trying to do so. RD

[starmac]

Possibly, but not all these "brain diseases" affect "old people" and also, while a larger percentage of the population is living to be older, there have always been people living to be old, and before around the 1950's these types of diseases were much, much rarer.

Lots of things to think about comparing an old person in the fifties, to an older one these days .
Just an example, how many old guys in the fifties spent a few drug induced years back around 1910 or so.
By the same token, how many hyper kids were drugged back then to calm them down? Progress has up sides, as well as downsides.
I have read where medical proffessional folks consider alzheimers (spelling) to be a man made disease, mostly caused by visiting doctors too much. I don't know if there is any science or truth to that, but years ago, folks seldem went to the doctor when they had a splinter in their finger, and it is common these days.

[kens]

A more specifically defined type of GMO is a "Transgenic Organism". This is an organism whose genetic makeup has been altered by the addition of genetic material from another, unrelated organism.


​Does this mean that Bruce Jenner is also a GMO??

[Lloyd Smale]

God created every plant on earth and every chemical we use to treat them. God also created cancer and every other disease. God didn't want us to live here forever he wants us to come back to him in heaven. Ever think that maybe these side effects and diseases they cause aren't part of Gods plan to slow the population growth until we come up with better ways to feed the earths population?

People put way more thought into staying alive then they do on how to spend the time they have here doing what Jesus said we must. If your the type that stresses over everything you eat and breath then your probably not going to live a bit longer then some layed back fat guy that smokes. Stress kills as much or more then cancer does. I figure I have on shot on earth. Ive made it 60 years and if you would have asked me at 20 if I would have made it this far id have probably laughed in your face. Personaly id rather live 70 years eating food that tastes great, having an occasional beer and enjoying life then I would if I made 80 eating rabbit food and running around with a doctors mask on to filter the pollution and germs. Genetically altered plants are NEEDED to feed the population of the earth and will be need even more in the future. Sure you can say maybe we have to many people and should address that but I doubt if your going to volunteer to help those numbers.

[jcwit]

Two very thoughtful and informative posts without all the fear mongering in earlier posts. Thanks very much to Rockydog & Lloyd Smale for their posts.

[farmerjim]

Two very thoughtful and informative posts without all the fear mongering in earlier posts. Thanks very much to Rockydog & Lloyd Smale for their posts.
+1 From a soils chemist and farmer

[bnelson06]

Gmo corn is selling for less than $4 a bushel and organic corn is over $12........ Now if everyone decided to go organic we would cut supply by about 2/3 because of the gmo benifits. Now while world demand goes up and supply goes down what do you think your bag of corn chips is going to cost, or pork, Beef, you name it. Bet the average lifespan goes down due to starvation because you were worried about getting cancer when you were 75.

[blackthorn]

When we overpopulate the earth, God (in the form of Mother Nature) will sort things out! Just like the animals that run a circle every 7 years (or so). The key to a manageable population lies in education. Just look at who is over producing offspring. China took a stab at population control using legislation and as far as I can see, that has not worked too well. Personally, I do not worry too much about when my end will come, but I do try to use common sense and the health benefits "man" has developed. I have no intention of going before I have no other choice. That said, I do believe a person should have the right to choose to die with dignity, rather than being kept alive just for the sake of prolonging life.

[Geraldo]

Possibly, but not all these "brain diseases" affect "old people" and also, while a larger percentage of the population is living to be older, there have always been people living to be old, and before around the 1950's these types of diseases were much, much rarer.

Not so fast. Psalm 90, written around 1000BC, says "Seventy is the measure of our years, or eighty for those who are strong."

Low average life span had a lot to do with infant mortality and childhood diseases that have largely been stopped by immunization. Those diseases are making a comeback because some are afraid of vaccines because celebrities with no medical or scientific knowledge told them they should be.

Are autism and Parkinson's really more common now? We've learned a lot since the 1950s, so we diagnose specific things that used to go under generic labels. Also, there have been changes in criteria for diagnosing these diseases. Autism in particular covers a very wide range.

So is it worse or are we just more aware than we used to be? In either case I'm grilling a steak tonight from a cow that undoubtedly ate GMO corn and I won't lose a wink of sleep over it.

[Walkingwolf]

Save the trees!

[MaryB]

Except that they have discovered that GMO crops are not producing more than standard hybrids!


God created every plant on earth and every chemical we use to treat them. God also created cancer and every other disease. God didn't want us to live here forever he wants us to come back to him in heaven. Ever think that maybe these side effects and diseases they cause aren't part of Gods plan to slow the population growth until we come up with better ways to feed the earths population?

People put way more thought into staying alive then they do on how to spend the time they have here doing what Jesus said we must. If your the type that stresses over everything you eat and breath then your probably not going to live a bit longer then some layed back fat guy that smokes. Stress kills as much or more then cancer does. I figure I have on shot on earth. Ive made it 60 years and if you would have asked me at 20 if I would have made it this far id have probably laughed in your face. Personaly id rather live 70 years eating food that tastes great, having an occasional beer and enjoying life then I would if I made 80 eating rabbit food and running around with a doctors mask on to filter the pollution and germs. Genetically altered plants are NEEDED to feed the population of the earth and will be need even more in the future. Sure you can say maybe we have to many people and should address that but I doubt if your going to volunteer to help those numbers.

[jcwit]

They are when you take into account the corn borer & root worm problem. And that Mary is a fact.

As always, Progress is a terrible thing!

[outdoorfan]

Mary, thanks for your comments. I agree with your position and appreciate your insight.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I am not a tree hugger, that's for sure.

I think I understand that GMO is probably not any good for our health. And I don't consider living longer to be an advantage if one's life is dependent on medication (pharmacy) to keep things rolling. However, drugs aren't all bad all the time, as far as I'm concerned. But I reckon people 100 years ago who lived till they were 60-80 years did so with less aches, pains, and issues than those today. People's lack of nutrition (eating real food) is catching up to them in many cases.

The topic of vaccines got thrown into the mix here. From the reading I've done, I don't believe vaccines as a whole are of any real benefit. I feel they are a detriment to good health, for the most part. Antibiotics can sure be helpful and have their place. Antibiotics can also be found naturally in herbs/plants if people care to learn of such.

I agree that just about anything packaged that is not organically certified is going to be loaded with garbage. I agree that there is no free lunch, and that growing these plants is a lot of work and costly. Same with feeding one's livestock without gmo grains.

[outdoorfan]

I found this documentary (Genetic Roulette) to be very helpful and eye-opening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAMlir8oprw

[outdoorfan]

The elites seem to eat an organic diet, while pushing gmo's on the public: http://healthimpactnews.com/2012/both-romney-and-obama-eat-organic-while-pushing-gmos-for-others/

[Stewbaby]

Nutsss

[starmac]

LOL Do the elites live any longer.
Doctors push all kind of junk drugs, vitamins, whatever pays them. The last I heard they didn't, on average live any longer than most gang members.

[jcwit]

The topic of vaccines got thrown into the mix here. From the reading I've done, I don't believe vaccines as a whole are of any real benefit. I feel they are a detriment to good health, for the most part.


REALLY, You actually think that way??

How do you think we put a stop to small pox, polio, whooping cough, measles, and other sickness.

Ya, they are a detriment to health.

[jcwit]

But I reckon people 100 years ago who lived till they were 60-80 years did so with less aches, pains, and issues than those today. People's lack of nutrition (eating real food) is catching up to them in many cases.



All the while the average age was 30/40 years old.

[jcwit]

And I don't consider living longer to be an advantage if one's life is dependent on medication (pharmacy) to keep things rolling.



Somehow I bet you'd change your mind if you needed to take an insulin shot once or twice a day or die.

Or needed to take 3 pills a day to keep your kidneys in operation or die.

You might disagree now but when the time came????????????????????????????????????????????

[outdoorfan]

All the while the average age was 30/40 years old.

Sure. I suppose penecillin (spelling) had a lot to do with that.


REALLY, You actually think that way??

How do you think we put a stop to small pox, polio, whooping cough, measles, and other sickness.

Ya, they are a detriment to health.

Weren't those viruses already in decline at the time the vaccines came out? Have you ever read about where vaccines originated from and the concept behind them?


LOL Do the elites live any longer.
Doctors push all kind of junk drugs, vitamins, whatever pays them. The last I heard they didn't, on average live any longer than most gang members.

Take a look at the presidents of the last 30+ years. Living pretty dang long, aren't they? Hmmm.

Doctors are largely ignorant about nutrition. Keep in mind their training is largely controlled by big money pharma.

[jcwit]

Sure. I suppose penecillin (spelling) had a lot to do with that.
.

Penicillin came into common use about in the 1940's, long after you'er 100 years.

[jcwit]

Weren't those viruses already in decline at the time the vaccines came out? Have you ever read about where vaccines originated from and the concept behind them?
.

No they were not in decline, take it from a polio survivor, from the 1950's.

But if you wish to continue to believe such, have at it. Just please don't try to pass this misinformation on to others.

Really you need to get a grip on life.

[jcwit]

Doctors are largely ignorant about nutrition. Keep in mind their training is largely controlled by big money pharma.

Sure, that's why my Dr. Has me on a diet, because he is ignorant about what I'm to eat.

Makes perfect logic to me.

[outdoorfan]

Penicillin came into common use about in the 1940's, long after you'er 100 years.

Thank you for pointing that out. I arbitrarily pulled that "100 year" figure out of the hat, so to speak.


No they were not in decline, take it from a polio survivor, from the 1950's.

But if you wish to continue to believe such, have at it. Just please don't try to pass this misinformation on to others.

Really you need to get a grip on life.

I believe what I posted is reasonably accurate and not misinformation. I encourage you and anybody else who wants to learn more about this to read the book by Tim Oshea, The Sanctity of Human Blood (Vaccination is not Immunization).

Is getting a grip on life mean that I have to accept every form of propaganda that comes my way through television or government? Mansanto is not our friend. Maybe they are your friend, but likely not mine.


Sure, that's why my Dr. Has me on a diet, because he is ignorant about what I'm to eat.

Makes perfect logic to me.

First, I'm not classifying every doctor this way; only the majority. If you go find an herbologist, and ask them what kinds of food your body actually needs for good cell growth, you will find that most doctors are not trained with that knowledge in mind. That's what I meant. True nutrition; what your body really needs.


This thread is supposed to be about gmo corn and the eating of venison that has been affected by it. I was curious as to what other people felt about this. Thank you all for commenting, and if there is any more comments relating to gmo's, I would welcome that discussion. Vaccines and other topics are for another thread. Thanks!

[gwpercle]

Can't eat venison - GMO corn.
Can't eat red meat and chicken - antibiotics
Can't eat fish - mercury
What's left ?

Maybe the vegans have it right...no wait pesticides !
I can't eat nothing no more !
SOYLENT GREEN...yeah, that's the ticket !

Gary

[Elkins45]

A more specifically defined type of GMO is a "Transgenic Organism". This is an organism whose genetic makeup has been altered by the addition of genetic material from another, unrelated organism.


​Does this mean that Bruce Jenner is also a GMO??

Nope, he still has the same DNA and the same pesky Y chromosome.

[jcwit]

I believe what I posted is reasonably accurate and not misinformation. I encourage you and anybody else who wants to learn more about this to read the book by Tim Oshea, The Sanctity of Human Blood (Vaccination is not Immunization).

Is getting a grip on life mean that I have to accept every form of propaganda that comes my way through television or government? Mansanto is not our friend. Maybe they are your friend, but likely not mine.





But yet you will accept the propaganda from this self proclaimed skeptic, he's not even a Dr., he doesn't even have the cojones to put anything out about himself on his own web page. Ya, I looked him up, so he wrote a book, so did Hitler.

~http://www.timoshea.com/p/about-me-and-why-y.html

[Elkins45]

Science is bad, learning is bad, progress is bad. Back to the old ways. Turn off the lights and live in a cave. 40 years is enough for anyone.

This is like an old folk's home on the Internet.

[outdoorfan]

Can't eat venison - GMO corn.
Can't eat red meat and chicken - antibiotics
Can't eat fish - mercury
What's left ?

Maybe the vegans have it right...no wait pesticides !
I can't eat nothing no more !
SOYLENT GREEN...yeah, that's the ticket !

Gary


I hear ya. I have the same frustrations as I've been learning how to navigate my way through this. Ultimately, it seems to boil down to:

1. Eating foods and meats that you've grown yourself under your own control (usually mean quite an expense and labor)

2. Buying certified organic (huge expense)

3. I forgot what I was going to put here (LOL!)

It is a hardship (imo) and is something for those who take it seriously to grow into rather than diving into all at once.

I respect those who don't care and eat gmo, although it makes it harder for those of us who don't want to. Why? Because if more people demanded non-gmo foods, than that's where the efforts would probably be.

Regardless, to each their own. No problem.

[Hannibal]

I'm not sure the point at which this thread rounded the corner and became entertainment, but it has certainly become an interesting read.

:popcorn:

[jcwit]

Very similar to threads regarding flu shots.

[outdoorfan]

But yet you will accept the propaganda from this self proclaimed skeptic, he's not even a Dr., he doesn't even have the cojones to put anything out about himself on his own web page. Ya, I looked him up, so he wrote a book, so did Hitler.

~http://www.timoshea.com/p/about-me-and-why-y.html




You're right, and I understand where you're coming from. No problem. You are in with the masses (it seems), and the masses have always been and will always be more easily manipulated.

There are medical doctors who have wrote about the same things as Tim. No problem. And I will not spoon feed you. No problem. Like the masses out there, you can't seem to get past the surface of these topics. No problem.

I do not have a monopoly on truth, and neither do you. However, I'm pretty sure I'm in a mindset that's closer to the truth than you are. No problem, and no disrespect intended. Now, this thread is about gmo corn and gmo foods in general, especially as it relates to the deer we shoot and eat. If you'd like to discuss other things, please do so in another thread. Thank you!

[xdmalder]

I raise my own sheep and have my own garden with heirloom veggies. My family of five rarely goes shopping. I go hunting for deer and turkey and fish for my other meat. It is a different and less convenient lifestyle but still doable and most people could do the same. The key word here is convenience. People are so busy with their other lifestyle that food and family take a back seat these days. Look at divorce rate. Look at obesity. Look at welfare. People want to take the easy road. But the facts are today's food supply is well short of nutrition and minerals. That is what we need to eat in order to survive. That is why people have to eat so much. In order to get the nutrition and minerals. And we still don't get them because there isn't any in the soil anymore. Yes we have higher yields then ever per acre. But the net worth is MUCH lower. My family also makes nearly all of its own medicine and we haven't been to a doctor in years except once for stitches (which cost $1000 for 8 stitches in a hand, are you kidding me!). We have even had three children without any doctors.

Another thing that comes to mind is the food pyramid. Man that way off. It was implemented in order to have a cheap source of food the government could supply it's population. There is nothing more than I hate then government interference. Seriously, have they ever been right about anything. Democrats or Republicans?

Anyway the GMO corn is here to stay and the deer will eat it. But it is not their only source of food. Gonna have to take some good with the bad I guess. Don't have too much of a choice anymore. Unless we go get our deer from Alaska where they can't grow unhealthy corn that produces a lot of bulk in order to slowly kill off the unwanted population

[jcwit]

You're right, and I understand where you're coming from. No problem. You are in with the masses (it seems), and the masses have always been and will always be more easily manipulated.

There are medical doctors who have wrote about the same things as Tim. No problem. And I will not spoon feed you. No problem. Like the masses out there, you can't seem to get past the surface of these topics. No problem.

I do not have a monopoly on truth, and neither do you. However, I'm pretty sure I'm in a mindset that's closer to the truth than you are. No problem, and no disrespect intended. Now, this thread is about gmo corn and gmo foods in general, especially as it relates to the deer we shoot and eat. If you'd like to discuss other things, please do so in another thread. Thank you!

But it's more than obvious that it's the masses that are living longer.


I'm pretty sure I'm in a mindset that's closer to the truth than you are.

Nothing more than your opinion. Me, I have science and facts to back me up, if nothing else, twice as long a lifetime.

Plus the greater yields of GMO corn because of their resistance to root worms and corn borer helps feed the world & brings the farmer greater profits. If it did not the farmer sure would not pay the extra for the seed. Nothing more than simple logic, which seems to be seriously lacking here.

No, I do not have a monopoly on the truth, but it sure doesn't take a rocket scientist to use google search.

[jcwit]

Another thing that comes to mind is the food pyramid. Man that way off. It was implemented in order to have a cheap source of food the government could supply it's population. There is nothing more than I hate then government interference. Seriously, have they ever been right about anything. Democrats or Republicans?


Well, World War 2 comes to mind!

And they didn't do to bad writing the Constitution.

Furthermore being as they screw up everything "in your opinion" how have we lasted so long as a free nation. Don't like it, leave, sheep and all, BTW, if you do let us know how the Dr.s are in your new country when you get old and do need them.

[jcwit]

Anyway the GMO corn is here to stay and the deer will eat it. But it is not their only source of food. Gonna have to take some good with the bad I guess. Don't have too much of a choice anymore. Unless we go get our deer from Alaska where they can't grow unhealthy corn that produces a lot of bulk in order to slowly kill off the unwanted population

Seriously? How back backing those statements up!

[xdmalder]

Somebody has some serious momma issues

[Elkins45]

I'm not sure the point at which this thread rounded the corner and became entertainment, but it has certainly become an interesting read.

:popcorn:

I think it was around post #1.


unhealthy corn that produces a lot of bulk in order to slowly kill off the unwanted population

Given that we are living longer than ever it seems to be doing a poor job of it.

[oldblinddog]

:redneck:

[starmac]

Gmo products is all about the yield. As far as needing it to feed the world, baloney!!!!!
The govt pays many farmers to not crow crops on lots of land.
I do not know about everywhere, but in the part of New Mexico I lived in, if you put your land in a crp program for ten years, then wanted to farm it again, you could never farm ANYTHING for human consumption on it again. I presume if one sold the land, the new owners could do what they want, but that is just an assumption.
As far as killing us, well it must be a slow death. I would never loose any sleep wandering if any deer I shot had ingested some farmers corn or not.

[MaryB]

And I live in the middle of farm country. More and more are going away from high priced GMO seed because of insect and weed resistance to the genetic modifications. http://modernfarmer.com/2013/12/post-gmo-economy/ When I was loading corn for the corn stove the guy running the grain elevator said 60% of what I was getting was a non-gmo corn that has much higher sugar levels for the ethanol plants. It also burns hotter saving me fuel!


They are when you take into account the corn borer & root worm problem. And that Mary is a fact.

As always, Progress is a terrible thing!

[MaryB]

Farmers I buy beef from haven't bothered to get an organic certification but they are basically organic. Drugs only get used on sick animals and that is rare for them. They eat grass and are on pasture and are far healthier than feedlot beef is. They sell direct and with the processing fee I paid $3.25 a pound this year. My pork and chickens are raised the same way. The farmers are making a good living, the local meat processor is making a living and I am getting high quality meat for far less than what the grocery store meat costs.


I hear ya. I have the same frustrations as I've been learning how to navigate my way through this. Ultimately, it seems to boil down to:

1. Eating foods and meats that you've grown yourself under your own control (usually mean quite an expense and labor)

2. Buying certified organic (huge expense)

3. I forgot what I was going to put here (LOL!)

It is a hardship (imo) and is something for those who take it seriously to grow into rather than diving into all at once.

I respect those who don't care and eat gmo, although it makes it harder for those of us who don't want to. Why? Because if more people demanded non-gmo foods, than that's where the efforts would probably be.

Regardless, to each their own. No problem.

[outdoorfan]

And I live in the middle of farm country. More and more are going away from high priced GMO seed because of insect and weed resistance to the genetic modifications. http://modernfarmer.com/2013/12/post-gmo-economy/ When I was loading corn for the corn stove the guy running the grain elevator said 60% of what I was getting was a non-gmo corn that has much higher sugar levels for the ethanol plants. It also burns hotter saving me fuel!

That is great news I wasn't aware of! I live an hour north of the metro (not too far from you). Maybe the same things are happening up where I live.


But it's more than obvious that it's the masses that are living longer.

Nothing more than your opinion. Me, I have science and facts to back me up, if nothing else, twice as long a lifetime.

Plus the greater yields of GMO corn because of their resistance to root worms and corn borer helps feed the world & brings the farmer greater profits. If it did not the farmer sure would not pay the extra for the seed. Nothing more than simple logic, which seems to be seriously lacking here.

No, I do not have a monopoly on the truth, but it sure doesn't take a rocket scientist to use google search.

It's interesting how "science" can be created by organizations with lots of money. They can create their own version of events (facts), pay witnesses to repeat it over an over again, and pay defenders to defend it in court. They have their bully guys to make sure other more accurate versions of the same events don't get heard. Sigh...

I think I mentioned this already, but living longer and living a longer more quality life are not necessarily the same thing. It is my understanding that most people today need meds to cure their ailments, aches, pains, etc. I know a few people who are in their 60's-80's who don't need meds. Why, because they have taken care of their bodies through proper nutrition.

The system is apparently designed to keep people alive longer, but at a huge price. That price is in more than just dollars and cents.


I raise my own sheep and have my own garden with heirloom veggies. My family of five rarely goes shopping. I go hunting for deer and turkey and fish for my other meat. It is a different and less convenient lifestyle but still doable and most people could do the same. The key word here is convenience. People are so busy with their other lifestyle that food and family take a back seat these days. Look at divorce rate. Look at obesity. Look at welfare. People want to take the easy road. But the facts are today's food supply is well short of nutrition and minerals. That is what we need to eat in order to survive. That is why people have to eat so much. In order to get the nutrition and minerals. And we still don't get them because there isn't any in the soil anymore. Yes we have higher yields then ever per acre. But the net worth is MUCH lower. My family also makes nearly all of its own medicine and we haven't been to a doctor in years except once for stitches (which cost $1000 for 8 stitches in a hand, are you kidding me!). We have even had three children without any doctors.

Another thing that comes to mind is the food pyramid. Man that way off. It was implemented in order to have a cheap source of food the government could supply it's population. There is nothing more than I hate then government interference. Seriously, have they ever been right about anything. Democrats or Republicans?

Anyway the GMO corn is here to stay and the deer will eat it. But it is not their only source of food. Gonna have to take some good with the bad I guess. Don't have too much of a choice anymore. Unless we go get our deer from Alaska where they can't grow unhealthy corn that produces a lot of bulk in order to slowly kill off the unwanted population

Thanks for commenting. Yes, I agree that the agrarian lifestyle is difficult and not very rewarding (financially), except in our overall health, which matters a lot. Good point on the soil being in general depleted of the nutrients needed to grow good food.

I am slowly learning this process of moving away from convenience foods to the more wholesome stuff in it's raw form.

[outdoorfan]

Farmers I buy beef from haven't bothered to get an organic certification but they are basically organic. Drugs only get used on sick animals and that is rare for them. They eat grass and are on pasture and are far healthier than feedlot beef is. They sell direct and with the processing fee I paid $3.25 a pound this year. My pork and chickens are raised the same way. The farmers are making a good living, the local meat processor is making a living and I am getting high quality meat for far less than what the grocery store meat costs.

You've tapped into a gold mine. We pay $5/lb for our certified beef (it's local), which is a good price. But I'd rather have it like you, finding local farmers who don't have the cost of the expensive certification and can therefore offer their excellent products (organically raised) at a lower price.

[outdoorfan]

Unless we go get our deer from Alaska where they can't grow unhealthy corn that produces a lot of bulk in order to slowly kill off the unwanted population

I think you're referring to the "soft kill" agenda, which has been well documented. Still, I believe people's pocket books trumps all. If more people demanded better food, with the understanding that it will cost more, than I believe GMO's wouldn't stand a chance.

[TXGunNut]

I like fat deer but I REALLY like fat feral hogs. The sow I killed last year had so much fat that I haven't had to use fat from domestic hogs to make sausage all year. I figure they're eating the same GMO corn but my feral hog never encountered antibiotics or any other drugs, neither did my deer.

[jcwit]

And I live in the middle of farm country. More and more are going away from high priced GMO seed because of insect and weed resistance to the genetic modifications. http://modernfarmer.com/2013/12/post-gmo-economy/ When I was loading corn for the corn stove the guy running the grain elevator said 60% of what I was getting was a non-gmo corn that has much higher sugar levels for the ethanol plants. It also burns hotter saving me fuel!

I too live in farming country, and that link is 2 years old.

There's a farmer 3 miles from my front selling raw organic milk for $8.00 a gallon. He used to sell it in Chicago, but no longer, something about crossing state lines.

[jcwit]

I think you're referring to the "soft kill" agenda, which has been well documented. Still, I believe people's pocket books trumps all. If more people demanded better food, with the understanding that it will cost more, than I believe GMO's wouldn't stand a chance.

So document your so called "soft kill". Otherwise it's nothing short of internet hogwash.

Quick folks, grab the tinfoil.

[outdoorfan]

So document your so called "soft kill". Otherwise it's nothing short of internet hogwash.

Quick folks, grab the tinfoil.

I would appreciate it if you would refrain from posting any further on this thread that I started. I can see very clearly the type of mentality that you have. You have stated your position very well. Thank you for that. And now you are acting in a way that is childish. I would prefer to not have you dominating this thread anymore with your "opinions". Thank you.

[outdoorfan]

I like fat deer but I REALLY like fat feral hogs. The sow I killed last year had so much fat that I haven't had to use fat from domestic hogs to make sausage all year. I figure they're eating the same GMO corn but my feral hog never encountered antibiotics or any other drugs, neither did my deer.

Well, you have a good point, which is why I still eat deer that I suspect have had some gmo corn in them, even though I am trying to stay clear (when I can) of gmo's. And like another poster stated, they do eat other things besides corn.

[tonyjones]

outdoorfan,

I am not aware of any studies documenting the change in nutrient content of deer that have been fed corn, GMO or otherwise, as opposed to their native diet. However, there is a vast amount of scientific literature on the nutrient content of grass fed beef and bison as opposed to those that have been fed corn. Grass fed beef and bison have the same healthy ratio of omega 3 and omega 6 EFA's as wild caught salmon. Further, grass fed beef and bison have high levels of CLA while salmon does not. There is also a lot of data that confirms the health benefits/nutrient content of pastured pork and poultry as opposed to that which has been produced conventionally. Ranchers that produce grass fed/pastured animals tend not to use growth hormone or antibiotics and most are happy to provide certification of same. The nutrient profile of grass fed IS superior. Similarly, the health benefits of eating grass fed/pastured is considerable.

I strongly suspect that venison from an animal that has existed on it's native diet as opposed to that which has eaten a considerable amount of corn, is superior from a nutritional standpoint.

Regards,

Tony

[outdoorfan]

Tony, I agree with you 100%. I am not aware of any studies done on the nutritional content of deer when there is some gmo corn in their diet (it certainly doesn't seem to make them taste any worse, as far as I'm concerned); but if anybody bothered to watch that link that I posted, it would seem that animals that have been eating gmo grains are going to be much less healthy than ones that aren't. I don't want to use the terms "always" and "never", but it seems that the general trend would have to be there.

[jcwit]

I would appreciate it if you would refrain from posting any further on this thread that I started. I can see very clearly the type of mentality that you have. You have stated your position very well. Thank you for that. And now you are acting in a way that is childish. I would prefer to not have you dominating this thread anymore with your "opinions". Thank you.

So you can post your opinions,such as they are, but others can not post?

Looks like censorship to me. How so is Internet hogwash childish?

And where is your document supporting what you say?

And just how am I dominating?

[jcwit]

All I'm asking is support your opinions with current facts, which no one has done. Postings claiming I've read this or heard that hold no water.

[Geraldo]

Science is bad, learning is bad, progress is bad. Back to the old ways. Turn off the lights and live in a cave. 40 years is enough for anyone.

This is like an old folk's home on the Internet.

:drinks::drinks::drinks: You've got my vote for best post ever!

[xdmalder]

All I'm asking is support your opinions with current facts, which no one has done. Postings claiming I've read this or heard that hold no water.

Plenty of info out there. I really don't feel like caving in to your obsessive ranting. Mary gave you a sight and blew it off by saying it is "2 years old?". Seriously. And your dominating this thread by nearly making 25% of the comments. 30 out of 125.

[jcwit]

Well I'm off the VA Hospital for tests today, so you folks have a good time. I'm likely getting tests because of my old age of 72, having nothing to do with anything I ate, but I have no studies to support this.

By supporting facts, these sould be actual studies made by Universities or folks knowing what they are talking about, after all anyone can write a book and lots of folks fall for it.

Furthermore the link supplies is nothing more than a Magazine for farmers.


I really don't feel like caving in to your obsessive ranting.
No reason you need to, just stating my opinion which is supported by others here that likely know whereof they speak, see posts 70, 73, & 75.

Have fun.

[outdoorfan]

God created every plant on earth and every chemical we use to treat them. God also created cancer and every other disease. God didn't want us to live here forever he wants us to come back to him in heaven. Ever think that maybe these side effects and diseases they cause aren't part of Gods plan to slow the population growth until we come up with better ways to feed the earths population?

People put way more thought into staying alive then they do on how to spend the time they have here doing what Jesus said we must. If your the type that stresses over everything you eat and breath then your probably not going to live a bit longer then some layed back fat guy that smokes. Stress kills as much or more then cancer does. I figure I have on shot on earth. Ive made it 60 years and if you would have asked me at 20 if I would have made it this far id have probably laughed in your face. Personaly id rather live 70 years eating food that tastes great, having an occasional beer and enjoying life then I would if I made 80 eating rabbit food and running around with a doctors mask on to filter the pollution and germs. Genetically altered plants are NEEDED to feed the population of the earth and will be need even more in the future. Sure you can say maybe we have to many people and should address that but I doubt if your going to volunteer to help those numbers.

Lloyd, I don't know if GMO crops are needed to feed the earth's population, but I have a feeling it isn't. That is my opinion because I am not an expert and don't really know. If anybody watches that link that I posted to "Genetic Roulette", it should be both eye-opening and thought provoking to see deeper into what GMO is about.

I do believe that God is sovereign over everything, and He uses evil to advance His purposes, as well. It says in Leviticus 19:19 - "...Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed..."

I'm not exactly sure what that means, but I'm pretty sure the idea of GMO, and the purpose behind it, is abominable in the eyes of the Lord.

I agree that worrying about anything is also considered sin by God. So, people that are always worked up over stuff are not helping their health at all. Stress can really weaken the immune system, I have no doubt.

[outdoorfan]

Gentlemen, The BT in GMO BT corn stands for bacillus thuringiensis, a naturally occurring bacteria in soil that has insecticidal properties. Corn was modified to produce this bacteria to control corn ear worms and rootworms. If you've ever husked sweet corn and found ear worms in the kernals you might feel differently about the use of BT corn. The root worms attack and destroy the corn's root system. This leads to much lower yields because the corn cannot absorb nutrients from the soil and the corn plant root system cannot support the plant. It simply falls over and dies. 20 Years ago we controlled root worms on the corn by using Organo Phosphate Pesticides. This stuff was so deadly that 2 teaspoons full would kill a full grown cow in about a half hour. People cried and whined about these terrible insecticides and their indiscriminate killing of earthworms and other beneficial insecticides. In response geneticists came up with BT corn that produced a relatively harmless, corm worm specific, natural bacterium. For their efforts and the dollars they invested they get only belly aching from those who don't know the background and progress this represents. By the way, bacillus thuringiensis bacterium has had the approval for ORGANIC FARM use for over 50 years. Organic farmers may apply the bacterium directly to soils and crops with wheeled equipment and crop dusting planes. So much for organic purity.

This goes right along with RBST free milk. All milk from all mammals contains Somatatrophins. The milk from ALL cows contains, appropriately named, Bovine Somatatrophin (BST). In the 1980s Monsanto developed a way to manufacture synthetic BST. They did this in much the same way that we manufacture human insulin. The BST producing gene is spliced to a fast growing bacteria. The bacteria is killed by pasteurization leaving behind the recombinant BST (rBST). Cows injected with rBST eat more feed and produce more milk. This is done in the same sized facilities, requiring the same capital investment with the same labor cost as that cow producing less milk. BST and rBST are virtually indistinguishable in milk both in structure and quantity. More importantly, both are simple proteins that are completely digested in the human stomach with NO hormonal properties. The resulting efficiencies are one of the things that keep some farmers farming. Consumers want the best food, bug free, GMO free, hormone free, disease free, etc. And they want it cheap. Sorry folks. No such thing as a free lunch.

Sorry for the rant but I worked as farmer from the age of about 6 until I was 32. Then, for the last 30 years, I have worked in on farm quality control for a major food manufacturer. It gets really frustrating to listen to the buzzwords come and go, to watch farmers continuously try to meet consumer expectations and get no compensation for trying to do so. RD

I forgot to comment to this. Thanks for posting. You are saying that the BT is harmless. That's where I have big concerns. There seems to be plenty of evidence to the contrary. I guess time will continue to tell, but right now there seems to be some real health-related issues with the processed food that people eat. Whether BT is a contributor or not, it seems that it could be.

I totally agree that people generally want too much in the sense that they want cheap quality food. No free lunch. Right on!

[outdoorfan]

By supporting facts, these sould be actual studies made by Universities or folks knowing what they are talking about, after all anyone can write a book and lots of folks fall for it.



Of course you have a good point, but the problem as I see it is imbedded in my previous post when I briefly described how organizations with lots of money can create their own science (version of events). Then they can control the propagation of it, while limiting the voices of those who disagree. The masses then gravitate towards these "facts", which they hear all the time on TV, etc.

It is very obvious to me that you are one of those folks who buys into their "facts", and needs to see the data coming from one of their universities, etc to believe what is being said. I will not waste time trying to convince you of otherwise, because I've wasted too much time in the past with people of your mentality. I don't disrespect you. You simply fall in to the category of the masses. You have your place in the structure of things. I accept that it is the way it is. No problem. I don't worry about it or lose any sleep over it.

But here's where I wish people like yourself could expand your understanding and see beyond the surface info. There are many people who are experts in the field but perhaps don't have the paper credentials that people like you are looking for. They sometimes (not always) bring expert technical facts to the table that those with paper credentials will not or are ignorant of. Remember, often times those with paper credentials, as it applies to the medical, pharma, financial, scholastic, you name it field are tightly controlled by the structure they are in. That structure was set up by powerful people who have an agenda to push. And most of the time the info seen on TV is a result of decisions and agendas set long ago by people most of the population is not even aware of. Not rocket science.

[outdoorfan]

Science is bad, learning is bad, progress is bad. Back to the old ways. Turn off the lights and live in a cave. 40 years is enough for anyone.

This is like an old folk's home on the Internet.

I for one do not believe that science is bad at all when applied with caution under the fear of God. The term "progress" is so subjective. Progress for what. Progress towards individual freedom, progress towards socialism. Progress could mean anything. Electricity sure is nice, isn't it. It was progress. However, the technology boom has also created an environment where families spend less time together. Is that a good side affect? Umm, no!

I say that science and learning is good. Progress is subjective. There are too many people that are applying what they've learned in ways other than in the fear of God, who initially set up this world that we live in in perfection.

[montana_charlie]

But here's where I wish people like yourself could expand your understanding and see beyond the surface info. There are many people who are experts in the field but perhaps don't have the paper credentials that people like you are looking for.
That is probably true. But, there must be something about those 'experts in the field' which others can use to accept that the claimed expertise exists.

You could tell us that a guy named Fred told you that GMO corn will slowly kill you.
In order to believe Fred, we need to know something about how Fred came to have this knowledge.
If you can't ... or won't ... tell us what makes Fred the expert to believe, we will look elsewhere for information which CAN be evaluated by the relative expertise of the source.

You see, the 'surface info' that you pass along from 'whomever' isn't sufficient to make us regulate our entire lives to comply with it.
You need to tell us that Fred is the source of your information, and why we should trust Fred ...

[oldblinddog]

Of course you have a good point, but the problem as I see it is imbedded in my previous post when I briefly described how organizations with lots of money can create their own science (version of events). Then they can control the propagation of it, while limiting the voices of those who disagree. ...

Do you have any actual, documented proof that this happens?


It is very obvious to me that you are one of those folks who buys into their "facts", and needs to see the data coming from one of their universities, etc to believe what is being said.

Yes, that would be be actual, documented proof. Anything else would be no more than idle gossip with no credibility what-so-ever.

Full disclosure, I attended Texas A&M University and my major was Animal Science, I learned artificial insemination in 1973 for cows, been raising cows, horses, pigs, dogs for a long time, and the crops to feed them and me/us. But since I am a University trained scientist I suppose that makes me unqualified. Oh, by the way, I fly a jet airplane for a living also.

You may be entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to your facts.

[Rick Hodges]

The problem with unqualified uneducated "experts" is way too often they collect a herd of equally unqualified sheep to lead astray....does the Rev. Jones and Ghana ring a bell? He most assuredly told his folks he was acting on God's instructions.....I bet some of them wished they checked out his "qualifications" a little better before they drank the Kool-Aid.

[Elkins45]

The problem with unqualified uneducated "experts" is way too often they collect a herd of equally unqualified sheep to lead astray....does the Rev. Jones and Ghana ring a bell? He most assuredly told his folks he was acting on God's instructions.....I bet some of them wished they checked out his "qualifications" a little better before they drank the Kool-Aid.

Wonder if that kool-aid was sweetened with genetically modified high fructose corn syrup?

[montana_charlie]

Wonder if that kool-aid was sweetened with genetically modified high fructose corn syrup?
If that were true, it wasn't the GMO sweetener that killed 'em.

[pressonregardless]

Wonder if that kool-aid was sweetened with genetically modified high fructose corn syrup?

Nah, most likely Aspartame.

[jcwit]

I will not waste time trying to convince you of otherwise, because I've wasted too much time in the past with people of your mentality.


LOL, Is this a kind way of calling me stupid. You don't know me from adam, nor do you know anything about my mentality.

[jcwit]

He uses evil to advance His purposes, as well.



Oh Really? Now that is a revelation for sure. You better do some serious reading of your Bible, and some serious soul searching.

[xdmalder]

Oh Really? Now that is a revelation for sure. You better do some serious reading of your Bible, and some serious soul searching.

Let's see: the flood, the entire book of Job, Revelations, the crucifixion. That took me about ten seconds of thinking.

[jcwit]

Let's see: the flood, the entire book of Job, Revelations, the crucifixion. That took me about ten seconds of thinking.

You also need to do some serious soul searching. I feel sorry for you.

Lets see, the flood destroyed the evil peoples of the world.

The trials of Job were just that, trials.

The Crucifixion, saved us all from the death of sin. If you refuse to see that as a good thing you really have a problem.

Revelation, all to be seen in the future, not even going to go their.

Might be well if you studied The Catechism for a start.

Took me way, way longer to type this out than to come up with the reply.

[xdmalder]

Yes the Lord stood by while all this happened because why? He has had a plan from the beginning. I stopped being spoon fed long ago. I suggest you do the same

[xdmalder]

I understand that you are Catholic and must be spoon fed. Your papacy requires it.

[jcwit]

I stopped being spoon fed long ago.

Whatever you say, but do not tell me what to say or think.

Say what you will, but back it up with facts, you say it's all out there, so show it, and be sure it's credible, not out of some mag.

[jcwit]

I understand that you are Catholic and must be spoon fed. Your papacy requires it.

Wrong again, Catholics are not the only ones who have and study a Catechism.

Better try again!

[xdmalder]

Ok so Lutheran. Just like I was. And it's the small catechism. I really don't care what the catechism has to say. I have the truth. It's called Scripture.

[jcwit]

I understand that you are Catholic and must be spoon fed. Your papacy requires it.

But then too, the Catholic church is the one founded by Paul, in Christ's words he was the rock.

[jcwit]

Ok so Lutheran. Just like I was. And it's the small catechism. I really don't care what the catechism has to say. I have the truth. It's called Scripture.

Then you better study more, I'll say 10 Hail Mary's for you.

[xdmalder]

The Catholic Church was founded by Paul!:? You really do believe everything you are fed

[jcwit]

Well I did make an error, after all I am human.

Peter, if you wish to really get into it, Jesus Christ of course, who is the founder of Christianity.

[jcwit]

And now xdmalder, it's time for you to ender the dark side, never to bee seen by me again. ByBy

[xdmalder]

Sorry Peter didn't either. Keep reading. Bye bye. OK I'll give you the answer. It was the Roman emperor Constantine.

[MaryB]

Modern farming strip mines the nutrients form the soil.


That is great news I wasn't aware of! I live an hour north of the metro (not too far from you). Maybe the same things are happening up where I live.



It's interesting how "science" can be created by organizations with lots of money. They can create their own version of events (facts), pay witnesses to repeat it over an over again, and pay defenders to defend it in court. They have their bully guys to make sure other more accurate versions of the same events don't get heard. Sigh...

I think I mentioned this already, but living longer and living a longer more quality life are not necessarily the same thing. It is my understanding that most people today need meds to cure their ailments, aches, pains, etc. I know a few people who are in their 60's-80's who don't need meds. Why, because they have taken care of their bodies through proper nutrition.

The system is apparently designed to keep people alive longer, but at a huge price. That price is in more than just dollars and cents.



Thanks for commenting. Yes, I agree that the agrarian lifestyle is difficult and not very rewarding (financially), except in our overall health, which matters a lot. Good point on the soil being in general depleted of the nutrients needed to grow good food.

I am slowly learning this process of moving away from convenience foods to the more wholesome stuff in it's raw form.

[MaryB]

And in 2 years more farmers went away from GMO to better performing hybrids.


I too live in farming country, and that link is 2 years old.

There's a farmer 3 miles from my front selling raw organic milk for $8.00 a gallon. He used to sell it in Chicago, but no longer, something about crossing state lines.

[MaryB]

OMG a magazine for FARMERS who grow corn(and other things)... imagine that! SHEESH!

\
Well I'm off the VA Hospital for tests today, so you folks have a good time. I'm likely getting tests because of my old age of 72, having nothing to do with anything I ate, but I have no studies to support this.

By supporting facts, these sould be actual studies made by Universities or folks knowing what they are talking about, after all anyone can write a book and lots of folks fall for it.

Furthermore the link supplies is nothing more than a Magazine for farmers.


No reason you need to, just stating my opinion which is supported by others here that likely know whereof they speak, see posts 70, 73, & 75.

Have fun.

[jcwit]

That magazine gives no links to facts, you believe everything written in the gun mags?


And in 2 years more farmers went away from GMO to better performing hybrids.

Says who? Show the stats.

[MaryB]

Gee I dunno the LOCAL FARMERS who hate Monsanto? Hybrid seed is half the price of GMO and when margins are slim on farm profits it makes a huge difference. My little town is mostly farmers and most stopped by to check out my new garage and talked about yields, what seed they bought etc. My garage is the first new construction in 5 years... Monsanto has treated farmers like ****, no wonder they are returning the favor!

http://www.non-gmoreport.com/articles/january-2015/more-farmers-plant-non-gmo-this-year-some-considering-organic.php

http://naturalsociety.com/record-us-farmers-switching-non-gmo-crops-2015/

[jcwit]

OK, I'm to take your word for it after you've talked to farmers from your small town as facts as to which corn is being planted nation wide.

OK, I get it. LOL

Those are your stats?

I'm thinking the first 3 words of above post says it all.

[MaryB]

I didn't say nationwide! You are putting words in my mouth! I said more and more farmers are going away from GMO and posted links proving it.

[xdmalder]

Do you really think the farmers are planting GMO corn to feed the world. They are doing it to feed their family. Fuel prices are outrageous. Seed prices are outrageous. Do you even know what new field equipment costs. $50,000 for a new center pivot. $500,000 for a new combine and head. They need the higher yields to just stay afloat. The American farmer is in debt to their eyeballs. They have no choice. I get that. But being efficient with their land they are not.

[oldblinddog]

How many is "more and more"? And where can I find this number? The links you provided are liberal websites/blogs with an agenda. Animal rights was top of the list...

The author of the second link merely quotes most of the article from the first link. Her website: http://yogaforthenewworld.com/

I especially liked her entry in "breaking news" on how "scientists" have "proven" that we are living in a computer generated matrix.

Here is a different perspective: http://www.agprofessional.com/agprofessional-magazine/GM-food-production-increasing-169514076.html

https://itif.org/publications/2015/02/23/policymakers-guide-gmo-controversies

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0111629

Some info on non-GMO production: http://extension.psu.edu/plants/crops/news/2014/02/non-gmo-grain-production shows that it is a regional niche market.

Pros and cons:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-truth-about-genetically-modified-food/ There are six pages to this article. Be sure and read all of them.

http://biomed.brown.edu/arise/resources/docs/yw10_1.pdf

And last:

You are more likely to get hit by an asteroid than to get hurt by GM food http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2013/10/15/organics-versus-gmo-why-the-debate/

[jcwit]

I didn't say nationwide! You are putting words in my mouth! I said more and more farmers are going away from GMO and posted links proving it.

No, I am not putting words into your mouth. More and more is subjective, could be 1 or 2, could well be 100's, as well as thousands. Your mention of a "few" ?? local farmers from your small town, "how small is small" shows little to nothing.

So where are the links??

All I see is what someone claims with no back up.

[MaryB]

All you want is an argument, I posted links to Minnesota farm resources. If you don't like them to bad. Go do some research and find out! GMO is not yielding better anymore due to insect and weed resistance, it is requiring just as much herbicide and insecticide as a hybrid and hybrid seed is half the price. Farmers are business people and they plant what yields best for the dollars input!

[jcwit]

All you want is an argument, I posted links to Minnesota farm resources. If you don't like them to bad. Go do some research and find out! GMO is not yielding better anymore due to insect and weed resistance, it is requiring just as much herbicide and insecticide as a hybrid and hybrid seed is half the price. Farmers are business people and they plant what yields best for the dollars input!

Better read post # 161 and while you're at it check out the links he provided.

We just believe 2 different theories, and I'll place my bets on science for success in the future. After all, new ideas is what brought us out of the caves.

To think we'll go back to the old ways is nothing short of folly, even most of the Amish have advanced beyond the old way, other than in the use animal labor of course. Oh I know, some one will come with an Amish man or 2 who still do it the old way.

Oh well, such is life.

[oldblinddog]

All you want is an argument, I posted links to Minnesota farm resources.!

No, you posted a link to an organic crop magazine/website with an anti-GMO agenda. Hardly objective reporting.

[outdoorfan]

That is probably true. But, there must be something about those 'experts in the field' which others can use to accept that the claimed expertise exists.

You could tell us that a guy named Fred told you that GMO corn will slowly kill you.
In order to believe Fred, we need to know something about how Fred came to have this knowledge.
If you can't ... or won't ... tell us what makes Fred the expert to believe, we will look elsewhere for information which CAN be evaluated by the relative expertise of the source.

You see, the 'surface info' that you pass along from 'whomever' isn't sufficient to make us regulate our entire lives to comply with it.
You need to tell us that Fred is the source of your information, and why we should trust Fred ...


Yes, of course. And I agree with you. No problem there at all. What I meant by surface info is more or less info that has been generated by big corporations and then propagandized by them through their various power centers. The masses believe the info they output as being legitimate even though there will be many instances where they are outright lying in order to gain control. It's these lies that end up being believed more than the truth. Nothing new here. I can't believe there are people who don't understand this, like jcwit.

[outdoorfan]

Do you have any actual, documented proof that this happens?

Yes, that would be be actual, documented proof. Anything else would be no more than idle gossip with no credibility what-so-ever.

[/FONT] Full disclosure, I attended Texas A&M University and my major was Animal Science, I learned artificial insemination in 1973 for cows, been raising cows, horses, pigs, dogs for a long time, and the crops to feed them and me/us. But since I am a University trained scientist I suppose that makes me unqualified. Oh, by the way, I fly a jet airplane for a living also.

You may be entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to your facts.

There are many instances. A couple that I am somewhat familiar with are: the creation of the federal reserve system (Jeckyll Island), how the AMA got control of the medical system, and the research committee that Norman Dodd headed up back in the 50's to find out about the un-American activities of the various big-name families. Norman Dodd was interviewed by G. Edward Griffin. I'm sure the interview is public. I've watched it.

This is normal stuff that the masses aren't aware of.

And I'm sure you're very good at what you do, both in flying and in your knowledge of animals. No problem here. I absolutely did not mean to insinuate that having a college education meant that you were taught nothing but lies. I have never said that, so I'm sorry if it somehow was implied.

[outdoorfan]

The problem with unqualified uneducated "experts" is way too often they collect a herd of equally unqualified sheep to lead astray....does the Rev. Jones and Ghana ring a bell? He most assuredly told his folks he was acting on God's instructions.....I bet some of them wished they checked out his "qualifications" a little better before they drank the Kool-Aid.

And again, I don't disagree with you at all. However, sometimes there are people in their respective field who are experts who are telling the truth, even if they don't have the support of the majority of their peers.

[outdoorfan]

LOL, Is this a kind way of calling me stupid. You don't know me from adam, nor do you know anything about my mentality.

I know your mentality from the way you are posting, if in fact you are posting what you believe. And I've once asked you kindly to take your opinions elsewhere since you've already stated your bias multiple times. And this isn't your thread. It's mine, and I'm asking you a second time to leave, please!

[outdoorfan]

And last:

You are more likely to get hit by an asteroid than to get hurt by GM food http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2013/10/15/organics-versus-gmo-why-the-debate/

I have such a hard time believing this. It so flies in the face of the learning I have done elsewhere. I realize it does come down to who people want to believe. I'm very sceptical of it. No doubt, that is my bias.

[oldblinddog]

Outdoorfan, in the quote above of my post (#133 which is here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?291647-Venison-and-GMO-corn&p=3434300&viewfull=1#post3434300) you have deleted part of the post and inserted other text which was not a part of the original post. If you did this inadvertently please correct your post immediately!

[outdoorfan]

Sorry about that. I think I fixed it.

[outdoorfan]

Folks, I am to blame too for allowing this thread to get off track. Let's try to keep it to GMO corn and deer. I think perhaps it's run it's course. Thanks.

[jcwit]

I know your mentality from the way you are posting, if in fact you are posting what you believe. And I've once asked you kindly to take your opinions elsewhere since you've already stated your bias multiple times. And this isn't your thread. It's mine, and I'm asking you a second time to leave, please!

Why should I take my opinions elsewhere anymore than anyone else that does not agree with your propaganda. At this point this is an open discussion open to anyone.

You are correct it is not my thread, no more than it is anyone else, by you being the OP does not make you the owner.


take your opinions elsewhere since you've already stated your bias multiple times.

And you sir have done the same, both with your opinions and your bias. By asking me to leave and in so many words to "shut up" you really are showing your bias. Much the same as todays college students are.

And again, you have no idea of my mentality, non at all.

[oldblinddog]

I have such a hard time believing this. It so flies in the face of the learning I have done elsewhere. I realize it does come down to who people want to believe. I'm very sceptical of it. No doubt, that is my bias.

As already stated, you are not entitled to your facts. If you have been told incorrectly and failed to discern the truth, that is your problem. But an opinion based on invalid information is worthless.

[MaryB]

Organic farms in MN, at least some of them. If they have not registered on the do not spray map they aren't on here.

http://www.mda.state.mn.us/~/media/Images/food/organic/organicfarms.gif

[Rockydog]

Attached is a link for the University of Minnesota 2014 Seed corn trials. In these trials over 100 different hybrids, many with more than 1 GMO trait, were planted, harvested and rated for measured yields. I see virtually no difference to conclude that non GMO hybrids are out yielding GMO hybrids. University data with nothing to hide, gain or lose. Make your own conclusions. http://www.maes.umn.edu/sites/maes.umn.edu/files/2014%20Corn%20Grain%20Final.pdf For those not familiar with growing corn, RM means days to calculated relative maturity. Traits are genetic differences built into corn. Dashes in the traits column indicate non GMO corn.

[xdmalder]

Attached is a link for the University of Minnesota 2014 Seed corn trials. In these trials over 100 different hybrids, many with more than 1 GMO trait, were planted, harvested and rated for measured yields. I see virtually no difference to conclude that non GMO hybrids are out yielding GMO hybrids. University data with nothing to hide, gain or lose. Make your own conclusions. http://www.maes.umn.edu/sites/maes.umn.edu/files/2014%20Corn%20Grain%20Final.pdf For those not familiar with growing corn, RM means days to calculated relative maturity. Traits are genetic differences built into corn. Dashes in the traits column indicate non GMO corn.


No colleges don't take sides at all.

The Minnesota Corn Evaluation Pro-
gram is conducted by the University
of Minnesota Agricultural Experiment
Station to provide unbiased informa-
tion for use by corn growers when
they choose which brand of corn to
buy and grow. The program is financed
in part by entry fees from private seed
companies that chose to place their
entries for testing.

Paid for by seed companies. I mean why would they want to sell their highest priced seed anyways? Colleges are about as liberal as they get.

[smokeywolf]

How many is "more and more"? And where can I find this number? The links you provided are liberal websites/blogs with an agenda. Animal rights was top of the list...

The author of the second link merely quotes most of the article from the first link. Her website: http://yogaforthenewworld.com/

I especially liked her entry in "breaking news" on how "scientists" have "proven" that we are living in a computer generated matrix.

Here is a different perspective: http://www.agprofessional.com/agprofessional-magazine/GM-food-production-increasing-169514076.html

https://itif.org/publications/2015/02/23/policymakers-guide-gmo-controversies

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0111629

Some info on non-GMO production: http://extension.psu.edu/plants/crops/news/2014/02/non-gmo-grain-production shows that it is a regional niche market.

Pros and cons:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-truth-about-genetically-modified-food/ There are six pages to this article. Be sure and read all of them.

http://biomed.brown.edu/arise/resources/docs/yw10_1.pdf

And last:

You are more likely to get hit by an asteroid than to get hurt by GM food http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2013/10/15/organics-versus-gmo-why-the-debate/


Actually http://www.agprofessional.com/agprofessional-magazine (http://www.agprofessional.com/agprofessional-magazine/GM-food-production-increasing-169514076.html) is a paid public relations firm that is contracted to cast their clients businesses and industry in a positive light with the consumer public.

"geneticliteracyproject" is run by Jon Entine. If you do a simple internet search you'll find that Jon Entine apparently has a history as a speaker for or on behalf of biotech.

Anytime sources are quoted, there's a fair to middlin' chance those sources may have something to gain from pushing their info or statistics which is also oft times cherry picked to produce the desired effect.

The only sources which can be believed are those who don't stand to benefit from their opinions and publications. Those kind of sources are very difficult to find on either side of an issue. Especially one where unimaginable profits are at stake.

[xdmalder]

Actually http://www.agprofessional.com/agprofessional-magazine (http://www.agprofessional.com/agprofessional-magazine/GM-food-production-increasing-169514076.html) is a paid public relations firm that is contracted to cast their clients businesses and industry in a positive light with the consumer public.

"geneticliteracyproject" is run by Jon Entine. If you do a simple internet search you'll find that Jon Entine apparently has a history as a speaker for or on behalf of biotech.

Anytime sources are quoted, there's a fair to middlin' chance those sources may have something to gain from pushing their info or statistics which is also oft times cherry picked to produce the desired effect.

The only sources which can be believed are those who don't stand to benefit from their opinions and publications. Those kind of sources are very difficult to find on either side of an issue. Especially one where unimaginable profits are at stake.


Couldn't said it better myself

[oldblinddog]

Anytime sources are quoted, there's a fair to middlin' chance those sources may have something to gain from pushing their info or statistics which is also oft times cherry picked to produce the desired effect.



The same can be said about every link or source cited for non-GMO. The point is that there has developed a niche market for "organic" foods and also non-GMO crops and this is still a place where a farm or business can do what is best for them. If a farm grows organic crops that does not make him/her/them virtuous. And, if an agri-business company like Monsanto develops GMO seed in an effort to help feed the people of the world, it is not evil because it is attempting to gain a positive return on investment. You people act like profit, the same thing the organic farmer is trying to do, is evil if it made in a way you don't approve. Or maybe it is because it is too much and that makes it unfair. This is no more than the same thing that liberals do when they try to block Walmart from coming to "their" town because it puts their high priced mom and pop stores under stress from increased competition. Sam Walton was nothing but a 5 and dime in Arkansas that became successful, the same thing the other mom and pop stores in the liberal states would do if they could. They don't because they don't have the brains to succeed evidently. Their only recourse is to try to block competition politically, something that is antithetical to everything this country stands for and principles upon which it was founded. You people, by describing your imagined enemy as evil, solely motivated by gross profits, are engaging in the same thing. Or, maybe you are just blindly following along behind someone with an axe to grind (or profit to be made). It reminds me of the ignorant masses that blindly follow Al Sharpton every time he shows up at another tragedy to race bait. You certainly are not looking at the available evidence that might give you any inkling of insight into the issue. Do you think that all the people that Monsanto (and other GMO producers, Monsanto is not the only one) employs are evil and interested in nothing but profit? They believe in what they are doing just as much as organic farmers and seed producers do. Open your minds and look at all the evidence available. Do you believe in climate change? If so, do you believe it is man caused? Think about this: climate change and organic farming are usually promoted by the same group of people. What do they want to control? Why, the whole world of course! Their goal is world socialism. Just like the propaganda they are teaching in our schools, this so called controversy about GMO crops is just another tool in their quest. Don't be manipulated by failing to get all of the facts before you make up your mind.

Freedom from government, the free market, and an open mind are the only solution. Otherwise we will be living in caves again in another generation.

[jcwit]

Some thought provoking info for you folks.

~http://www3.forbes.com/investing/the-richest-person-in-every-state/22/



Seed genetics entrepreneur Harry Stine has built the richest fortune in Iowa on a small farm outside of Des Moines. Stine grew up the son of a hardscrabble farmer and began dabbling in seed breeding in the 1960s. Dyslexic and mildly autistic, but a savant with math and data, Stine quietly built some of the most genetically robust and highest-yielding soybean seeds in the industry. He was one of the first to patent the genetics of the soybean in the early 1990s and, as a savvy businessman and formidable negotiator, landed lucrative deals licensing the genetics to industry heavyweights like Monsanto and DuPont. Stine Seed still reaps millions annually from these contracts. It develops corn genetics and biotechnology traits for the seed industry as well.



Harry Stine’s current passion project is starting to take root with corn growers and could revolutionize the corn industry: seeds bred to thrive when they are densely planted, dramatically increasing farmers’ harvests. A farm-boy born with an entrepreneurial bug, he owns a small home a couple hundred yards from work and drives a Ford F-150 to the Stine Seed headquarters, where his four children work as well. He’s an avid table tennis player and enjoys hunting morel mushrooms

[oldblinddog]

What the left wants:

http://youtu.be/hQvsf2MUKRQ

and then:

http://youtu.be/FQXAqP6ReqY

I know these are hard to understand, the quality of the recording, etc., but please give it a listen. This is where planned parenthood came from [http://www.dianedew.com/sanger.htm]. The left does not care if the people of Africa/Asia die of starvation. They have an agenda and it is not what they tell you down at the organic health food store.

http://youtu.be/IaH0Ws8RtSc

http://youtu.be/Vwfir3jh1V4

[JWFilips]

I would rather eat the deer then anything I can buy in a store

[oldblinddog]

I would rather eat the deer then anything I can buy in a store

Me too!

[outdoorfan]

Actually http://www.agprofessional.com/agprofessional-magazine (http://www.agprofessional.com/agprofessional-magazine/GM-food-production-increasing-169514076.html) is a paid public relations firm that is contracted to cast their clients businesses and industry in a positive light with the consumer public.

"geneticliteracyproject" is run by Jon Entine. If you do a simple internet search you'll find that Jon Entine apparently has a history as a speaker for or on behalf of biotech.

Anytime sources are quoted, there's a fair to middlin' chance those sources may have something to gain from pushing their info or statistics which is also oft times cherry picked to produce the desired effect.

The only sources which can be believed are those who don't stand to benefit from their opinions and publications. Those kind of sources are very difficult to find on either side of an issue. Especially one where unimaginable profits are at stake.

Isn't that the truth! 3'd party testing is where I go to look where I can and if it exists. Too many "wolves in sheeps' clothing" with big corporate ties in the bunch.

[outdoorfan]

I would rather eat the deer then anything I can buy in a store

Hey, can't argue too much with that.

[outdoorfan]

The same can be said about every link or source cited for non-GMO. The point is that there has developed a niche market for "organic" foods and also non-GMO crops and this is still a place where a farm or business can do what is best for them. If a farm grows organic crops that does not make him/her/them virtuous. And, if an agri-business company like Monsanto develops GMO seed in an effort to help feed the people of the world, it is not evil because it is attempting to gain a positive return on investment. You people act like profit, the same thing the organic farmer is trying to do, is evil if it made in a way you don't approve. Or maybe it is because it is too much and that makes it unfair. This is no more than the same thing that liberals do when they try to block Walmart from coming to "their" town because it puts their high priced mom and pop stores under stress from increased competition. Sam Walton was nothing but a 5 and dime in Arkansas that became successful, the same thing the other mom and pop stores in the liberal states would do if they could. They don't because they don't have the brains to succeed evidently. Their only recourse is to try to block competition politically, something that is antithetical to everything this country stands for and principles upon which it was founded. You people, by describing your imagined enemy as evil, solely motivated by gross profits, are engaging in the same thing. Or, maybe you are just blindly following along behind someone with an axe to grind (or profit to be made). It reminds me of the ignorant masses that blindly follow Al Sharpton every time he shows up at another tragedy to race bait. You certainly are not looking at the available evidence that might give you any inkling of insight into the issue. Do you think that all the people that Monsanto (and other GMO producers, Monsanto is not the only one) employs are evil and interested in nothing but profit? They believe in what they are doing just as much as organic farmers and seed producers do. Open your minds and look at all the evidence available. Do you believe in climate change? If so, do you believe it is man caused? Think about this: climate change and organic farming are usually promoted by the same group of people. What do they want to control? Why, the whole world of course! Their goal is world socialism. Just like the propaganda they are teaching in our schools, this so called controversy about GMO crops is just another tool in their quest. Don't be manipulated by failing to get all of the facts before you make up your mind.

Freedom from government, the free market, and an open mind are the only solution. Otherwise we will be living in caves again in another generation.


Good post, and much of it I agree with.

I've seen local organic farms here (even by the Amish) that are being done for no other reason than to make a profit. They cut corners when they can, and their own beliefs on personal nutrition are not compatible with people are are eating organic foods to further their health.

Also, I've caught wind once or twice of substances that the (I think) FDA has allowed certified organic farms to use that are highly questionable at the least in terms of food safety to the people who will ultimately consume those foods.

[xdmalder]

Yeah I don't trust the organic label either. When I say organic I am most always talking about what I grow and I know what's been done with it.

[tonyjones]

USDA Certified Organic certification tells one two things that are useful to know, in my opinion. One is that the food is non GMO and the other is that chemical pesticides have not been used. The consumer is free to exercise their own judgement. TJ

[StolzerandSons]

§205.601 Synthetic substances allowed for use in organic crop production.

In accordance with restrictions specified in this section, the following synthetic substances may be used in organic crop production: Provided, That, use of such substances do not contribute to contamination of crops, soil, or water. Substances allowed by this section, except disinfectants and sanitizers in paragraph (a) and those substances in paragraphs (c), (j), (k), and (l) of this section, may only be used when the provisions set forth in §205.206(a) through (d) prove insufficient to prevent or control the target pest.
(a) As algicide, disinfectants, and sanitizer, including irrigation system cleaning systems.
(1) Alcohols.
(i) Ethanol.
(ii) Isopropanol.
(2) Chlorine materials—For pre-harvest use, residual chlorine levels in the water in direct crop contact or as water from cleaning irrigation systems applied to soil must not exceed the maximum residual disinfectant limit under the Safe Drinking Water Act, except that chlorine products may be used in edible sprout production according to EPA label directions.
(i) Calcium hypochlorite.
(ii) Chlorine dioxide.
(iii) Sodium hypochlorite.
(3) Copper sulfate—for use as an algicide in aquatic rice systems, is limited to one application per field during any 24-month period. Application rates are limited to those which do not increase baseline soil test values for copper over a timeframe agreed upon by the producer and accredited certifying agent.
(4) Hydrogen peroxide.
(5) Ozone gas—for use as an irrigation system cleaner only.
(6) Peracetic acid—for use in disinfecting equipment, seed, and asexually propagated planting material. Also permitted in hydrogen peroxide formulations as allowed in §205.601(a) at concentration of no more than 6% as indicated on the pesticide product label.
(7) Soap-based algicide/demossers.
(8) Sodium carbonate peroxyhydrate (CAS #-15630-89-4)—Federal law restricts the use of this substance in food crop production to approved food uses identified on the product label.
(b) As herbicides, weed barriers, as applicable.
(1) Herbicides, soap-based—for use in farmstead maintenance (roadways, ditches, right of ways, building perimeters) and ornamental crops.
(2) Mulches.
(i) Newspaper or other recycled paper, without glossy or colored inks.
(ii) Plastic mulch and covers (petroleum-based other than polyvinyl chloride (PVC)).
(iii) Biodegradable biobased mulch film as defined in §205.2. Must be produced without organisms or feedstock derived from excluded methods.
(c) As compost feedstocks—Newspapers or other recycled paper, without glossy or colored inks.
(d) As animal repellents—Soaps, ammonium—for use as a large animal repellant only, no contact with soil or edible portion of crop.
(e) As insecticides (including acaricides or mite control).
(1) Ammonium carbonate—for use as bait in insect traps only, no direct contact with crop or soil.
(2) Aqueous potassium silicate (CAS #-1312-76-1)—the silica, used in the manufacture of potassium silicate, must be sourced from naturally occurring sand.
(3) Boric acid—structural pest control, no direct contact with organic food or crops.
(4) Copper sulfate—for use as tadpole shrimp control in aquatic rice production, is limited to one application per field during any 24-month period. Application rates are limited to levels which do not increase baseline soil test values for copper over a timeframe agreed upon by the producer and accredited certifying agent.
(5) Elemental sulfur.
(6) Lime sulfur—including calcium polysulfide.
(7) Oils, horticultural—narrow range oils as dormant, suffocating, and summer oils.
(8) Soaps, insecticidal.
(9) Sticky traps/barriers.
(10) Sucrose octanoate esters (CAS #s—42922-74-7; 58064-47-4)—in accordance with approved labeling.
(f) As insect management. Pheromones.
(g) As rodenticides. Vitamin D3.
(h) As slug or snail bait. Ferric phosphate (CAS # 10045-86-0).
(i) As plant disease control.
(1) Aqueous potassium silicate (CAS #-1312-76-1)—the silica, used in the manufacture of potassium silicate, must be sourced from naturally occurring sand.
(2) Coppers, fixed—copper hydroxide, copper oxide, copper oxychloride, includes products exempted from EPA tolerance, Provided, That, copper-based materials must be used in a manner that minimizes accumulation in the soil and shall not be used as herbicides.
(3) Copper sulfate—Substance must be used in a manner that minimizes accumulation of copper in the soil.
(4) Hydrated lime.
(5) Hydrogen peroxide.
(6) Lime sulfur.
(7) Oils, horticultural, narrow range oils as dormant, suffocating, and summer oils.
(8) Peracetic acid—for use to control fire blight bacteria. Also permitted in hydrogen peroxide formulations as allowed in §205.601(i) at concentration of no more than 6% as indicated on the pesticide product label.
(9) Potassium bicarbonate.
(10) Elemental sulfur.
(11) Streptomycin, for fire blight control in apples and pears only until October 21, 2014.
(12) Tetracycline, for fire blight control in apples and pears only until October 21, 2014.
(j) As plant or soil amendments.
(1) Aquatic plant extracts (other than hydrolyzed)—Extraction process is limited to the use of potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide; solvent amount used is limited to that amount necessary for extraction.
(2) Elemental sulfur.
(3) Humic acids—naturally occurring deposits, water and alkali extracts only.
(4) Lignin sulfonate—chelating agent, dust suppressant.
(5) Magnesium sulfate—allowed with a documented soil deficiency.
(6) Micronutrients—not to be used as a defoliant, herbicide, or desiccant. Those made from nitrates or chlorides are not allowed. Soil deficiency must be documented by testing.
(i) Soluble boron products.
(ii) Sulfates, carbonates, oxides, or silicates of zinc, copper, iron, manganese, molybdenum, selenium, and cobalt.
(7) Liquid fish products—can be pH adjusted with sulfuric, citric or phosphoric acid. The amount of acid used shall not exceed the minimum needed to lower the pH to 3.5.
(8) Vitamins, B1, C, and E.
(9) Sulfurous acid (CAS # 7782-99-2) for on-farm generation of substance utilizing 99% purity elemental sulfur per paragraph (j)(2) of this section.
(k) As plant growth regulators. Ethylene gas—for regulation of pineapple flowering.
(l) As floating agents in postharvest handling.
(1) Lignin sulfonate.
(2) Sodium silicate—for tree fruit and fiber processing.
(m) As synthetic inert ingredients as classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), for use with nonsynthetic substances or synthetic substances listed in this section and used as an active pesticide ingredient in accordance with any limitations on the use of such substances.
(1) EPA List 4—Inerts of Minimal Concern.
(2) EPA List 3—Inerts of unknown toxicity—for use only in passive pheromone dispensers.
(n) Seed preparations. Hydrogen chloride (CAS # 7647-01-0)—for delinting cotton seed for planting.
(o) As production aids. Microcrystalline cheesewax (CAS #'s 64742-42-3, 8009-03-08, and 8002-74-2)-for use in log grown mushroom production. Must be made without either ethylene-propylene co-polymer or synthetic colors.
(p)-(z) [Reserved]
[65 FR 80637, Dec. 21, 2000, as amended at 68 FR 61992, Oct. 31, 2003; 71 FR 53302 Sept. 11, 2006; 72 FR 69572, Dec. 10, 2007; 75 FR 38696, July 6, 2010; 75 FR 77524, Dec. 13, 2010; 77 FR 8092, Feb. 14, 2012; 77 FR 33298, June 6, 2012; 77 FR 45907, Aug. 2, 2012; 78 FR 31821, May 28, 2013; 79 FR 58663, Sept. 30, 2014]


§205.603 Synthetic substances allowed for use in organic livestock production.

In accordance with restrictions specified in this section the following synthetic substances may be used in organic livestock production:
(a) As disinfectants, sanitizer, and medical treatments as applicable.
(1) Alcohols.
(i) Ethanol-disinfectant and sanitizer only, prohibited as a feed additive.
(ii) Isopropanol-disinfectant only.
(2) Aspirin-approved for health care use to reduce inflammation.
(3) Atropine (CAS #-51-55-8)—federal law restricts this drug to use by or on the lawful written or oral order of a licensed veterinarian, in full compliance with the AMDUCA and 21 CFR part 530 of the Food and Drug Administration regulations. Also, for use under 7 CFR part 205, the NOP requires:
(i) Use by or on the lawful written order of a licensed veterinarian; and
(ii) A meat withdrawal period of at least 56 days after administering to livestock intended for slaughter; and a milk discard period of at least 12 days after administering to dairy animals.
(4) Biologics—Vaccines.
(5) Butorphanol (CAS #-42408-82-2)—federal law restricts this drug to use by or on the lawful written or oral order of a licensed veterinarian, in full compliance with the AMDUCA and 21 CFR part 530 of the Food and Drug Administration regulations. Also, for use under 7 CFR part 205, the NOP requires:
(i) Use by or on the lawful written order of a licensed veterinarian; and
(ii) A meat withdrawal period of at least 42 days after administering to livestock intended for slaughter; and a milk discard period of at least 8 days after administering to dairy animals.
(6) Chlorhexidine—Allowed for surgical procedures conducted by a veterinarian. Allowed for use as a teat dip when alternative germicidal agents and/or physical barriers have lost their effectiveness.
(7) Chlorine materials—disinfecting and sanitizing facilities and equipment. Residual chlorine levels in the water shall not exceed the maximum residual disinfectant limit under the Safe Drinking Water Act.
(i) Calcium hypochlorite.
(ii) Chlorine dioxide.
(iii) Sodium hypochlorite.
(8) Electrolytes—without antibiotics.
(9) Flunixin (CAS #-38677-85-9)—in accordance with approved labeling; except that for use under 7 CFR part 205, the NOP requires a withdrawal period of at least two-times that required by the FDA.
(10) Furosemide (CAS #-54-31-9)—in accordance with approved labeling; except that for use under 7 CFR part 205, the NOP requires a withdrawal period of at least two-times that required that required by the FDA.
(11) Glucose.
(12) Glycerin—Allowed as a livestock teat dip, must be produced through the hydrolysis of fats or oils.
(13) Hydrogen peroxide.
(14) Iodine.
(15) Magnesium hydroxide (CAS #-1309-42-8)—federal law restricts this drug to use by or on the lawful written or oral order of a licensed veterinarian, in full compliance with the AMDUCA and 21 CFR part 530 of the Food and Drug Administration regulations. Also, for use under 7 CFR part 205, the NOP requires use by or on the lawful written order of a licensed veterinarian.
(16) Magnesium sulfate.
(17) Oxytocin—use in postparturition therapeutic applications.
(18) Parasiticides—Prohibited in slaughter stock, allowed in emergency treatment for dairy and breeder stock when organic system plan-approved preventive management does not prevent infestation. Milk or milk products from a treated animal cannot be labeled as provided for in subpart D of this part for 90 days following treatment. In breeder stock, treatment cannot occur during the last third of gestation if the progeny will be sold as organic and must not be used during the lactation period for breeding stock.
(i) Fenbendazole (CAS #43210-67-9)—only for use by or on the lawful written order of a licensed veterinarian.
(ii) Ivermectin (CAS #70288-86-7).
(iii) Moxidectin (CAS #113507-06-5)—for control of internal parasites only.
(19) Peroxyacetic/peracetic acid (CAS #-79-21-0)—for sanitizing facility and processing equipment.
(20) Phosphoric acid—allowed as an equipment cleaner, Provided, That, no direct contact with organically managed livestock or land occurs.
(21) Poloxalene (CAS #-9003-11-6)—for use under 7 CFR part 205, the NOP requires that poloxalene only be used for the emergency treatment of bloat.
(22) Tolazoline (CAS #-59-98-3)—federal law restricts this drug to use by or on the lawful written or oral order of a licensed veterinarian, in full compliance with the AMDUCA and 21 CFR part 530 of the Food and Drug Administration regulations. Also, for use under 7 CFR part 205, the NOP requires:
(i) Use by or on the lawful written order of a licensed veterinarian;
(ii) Use only to reverse the effects of sedation and analgesia caused by Xylazine; and
(iii) A meat withdrawal period of at least 8 days after administering to livestock intended for slaughter; and a milk discard period of at least 4 days after administering to dairy animals.
(23) Xylazine (CAS #-7361-61-7)—federal law restricts this drug to use by or on the lawful written or oral order of a licensed veterinarian, in full compliance with the AMDUCA and 21 CFR part 530 of the Food and Drug Administration regulations. Also, for use under 7 CFR part 205, the NOP requires:
(i) Use by or on the lawful written order of a licensed veterinarian;
(ii) The existence of an emergency; and
(iii) A meat withdrawal period of at least 8 days after administering to livestock intended for slaughter; and a milk discard period of at least 4 days after administering to dairy animals.
(b) As topical treatment, external parasiticide or local anesthetic as applicable.
(1) Copper sulfate.
(2) Formic acid (CAS # 64-18-6)—for use as a pesticide solely within honeybee hives.
(3) Iodine.
(4) Lidocaine—as a local anesthetic. Use requires a withdrawal period of 90 days after administering to livestock intended for slaughter and 7 days after administering to dairy animals.
(5) Lime, hydrated—as an external pest control, not permitted to cauterize physical alterations or deodorize animal wastes.
(6) Mineral oil—for topical use and as a lubricant.
(7) Procaine—as a local anesthetic, use requires a withdrawal period of 90 days after administering to livestock intended for slaughter and 7 days after administering to dairy animals.
(8) Sucrose octanoate esters (CAS #s-42922-74-7; 58064-47-4)—in accordance with approved labeling.
(c) As feed supplements—None.
(d) As feed additives.
(1) DL-Methionine, DL-Methionine-hydroxy analog, and DL-Methionine-hydroxy analog calcium (CAS #'s 59-51-8, 583-91-5, 4857-44-7, and 922-50-9)—for use only in organic poultry production at the following maximum levels of synthetic methionine per ton of feed: Laying and broiler chickens—2 pounds; turkeys and all other poultry—3 pounds.
(2) Trace minerals, used for enrichment or fortification when FDA approved.
(3) Vitamins, used for enrichment or fortification when FDA approved.
(e) As synthetic inert ingredients as classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), for use with nonsynthetic substances or synthetic substances listed in this section and used as an active pesticide ingredient in accordance with any limitations on the use of such substances.
(1) EPA List 4—Inerts of Minimal Concern.
(2) [Reserved]
(f) Excipients, only for use in the manufacture of drugs used to treat organic livestock when the excipient is: Identified by the FDA as Generally Recognized As Safe; Approved by the FDA as a food additive; or Included in the FDA review and approval of a New Animal Drug Application or New Drug Application.
(g)-(z) [Reserved]
[72 FR 70484, Dec. 12, 2007, as amended at 73 FR 54059, Sept. 18, 2008; 75 FR 51924, Aug. 24, 2010; 77 FR 28745, May 15, 2012; 77 FR 45907, Aug. 2, 2012; 77 FR 57989, Sept. 19, 2012; 80 FR 6429, Feb. 5, 2015]

Maybe if more people went to the source for information they would actually know what is allowed to be used to produce "organic" products. Read these lists and understand these are straight from the Code of Federal Regulations not a magazine or a blog or an opinion piece. These are exactly what the Gov't allows to be used on food labeled "Organic".

[StolzerandSons]

And a list of other things that are allowed in processed "organic" products:

§205.605 Nonagricultural (nonorganic) substances allowed as ingredients in or on processed products labeled as “organic” or “made with organic (specified ingredients or food group(s)).”The following nonagricultural substances may be used as ingredients in or on processed products labeled as “organic” or “made with organic (specified ingredients or food group(s))” only in accordance with any restrictions specified in this section.
(a) Nonsynthetics allowed:
Acids (Alginic; Citric—produced by microbial fermentation of carbohydrate substances; and Lactic).
Agar-agar.
Animal enzymes—(Rennet—animals derived; Catalase—bovine liver; Animal lipase; Pancreatin; Pepsin; and Trypsin).
Attapulgite—as a processing aid in the handling of plant and animal oils.
Bentonite.
Calcium carbonate.
Calcium chloride.
Calcium sulfate—mined.
Carrageenan.
Dairy cultures.
Diatomaceous earth—food filtering aid only.
Egg white lysozyme (CAS # 9001-63-2)
Enzymes—must be derived from edible, nontoxic plants, nonpathogenic fungi, or nonpathogenic bacteria.
Flavors, nonsynthetic sources only and must not be produced using synthetic solvents and carrier systems or any artificial preservative.
Gellan gum (CAS # 71010-52-1)—high-acyl form only.
Glucono delta-lactone—production by the oxidation of D-glucose with bromine water is prohibited.
Kaolin.
L-Malic acid (CAS # 97-67-6).
Magnesium sulfate, nonsynthetic sources only.
Microorganisms—any food grade bacteria, fungi, and other microorganism.
Nitrogen—oil-free grades.
Oxygen—oil-free grades.
Perlite—for use only as a filter aid in food processing.
Potassium chloride.
Potassium iodide.
Sodium bicarbonate.
Sodium carbonate.
Tartaric acid—made from grape wine.
Waxes—nonsynthetic (Carnauba wax; and Wood resin).
Yeast—When used as food or a fermentation agent in products labeled as “organic,” yeast must be organic if its end use is for human consumption; nonorganic yeast may be used when organic yeast is not commercially available. Growth on petrochemical substrate and sulfite waste liquor is prohibited. For smoked yeast, nonsynthetic smoke flavoring process must be documented.
(b) Synthetics allowed:
Acidified sodium chlorite—Secondary direct antimicrobial food treatment and indirect food contact surface sanitizing. Acidified with citric acid only.
Activated charcoal (CAS #s 7440-44-0; 64365-11-3)—only from vegetative sources; for use only as a filtering aid.
Alginates.
Ammonium bicarbonate—for use only as a leavening agent.
Ammonium carbonate—for use only as a leavening agent.
Ascorbic acid.
Calcium citrate.
Calcium hydroxide.
Calcium phosphates (monobasic, dibasic, and tribasic).
Carbon dioxide.
Cellulose—for use in regenerative casings, as an anti-caking agent (non-chlorine bleached) and filtering aid.
Chlorine materials—disinfecting and sanitizing food contact surfaces, Except, That, residual chlorine levels in the water shall not exceed the maximum residual disinfectant limit under the Safe Drinking Water Act (Calcium hypochlorite; Chlorine dioxide; and Sodium hypochlorite).
Cyclohexylamine (CAS # 108-91-8)—for use only as a boiler water additive for packaging sterilization.
Diethylaminoethanol (CAS # 100-37-8)—for use only as a boiler water additive for packaging sterilization.
Ethylene—allowed for postharvest ripening of tropical fruit and degreening of citrus.
Ferrous sulfate—for iron enrichment or fortification of foods when required by regulation or recommended (independent organization).
Glycerides (mono and di)—for use only in drum drying of food.
Glycerin—produced by hydrolysis of fats and oils.
Hydrogen peroxide.
Magnesium carbonate—for use only in agricultural products labeled “made with organic (specified ingredients or food group(s)),” prohibited in agricultural products labeled “organic”.
Magnesium chloride—derived from sea water.
Magnesium stearate—for use only in agricultural products labeled “made with organic (specified ingredients or food group(s)),” prohibited in agricultural products labeled “organic”.
Nutrient vitamins and minerals, in accordance with 21 CFR 104.20, Nutritional Quality Guidelines For Foods.
Octadecylamine (CAS # 124-30-1)—for use only as a boiler water additive for packaging sterilization.
Ozone.
Peracetic acid/Peroxyacetic acid (CAS # 79-21-0)—for use in wash and/or rinse water according to FDA limitations. For use as a sanitizer on food contact surfaces.
Phosphoric acid—cleaning of food-contact surfaces and equipment only.
Potassium acid tartrate.
Potassium carbonate.
Potassium citrate.
Potassium hydroxide—prohibited for use in lye peeling of fruits and vegetables except when used for peeling peaches.
Potassium phosphate—for use only in agricultural products labeled “made with organic (specific ingredients or food group(s)),” prohibited in agricultural products labeled “organic”.
Silicon dioxide—Permitted as a defoamer. Allowed for other uses when organic rice hulls are not commercially available.
Sodium acid pyrophosphate (CAS # 7758-16-9)—for use only as a leavening agent.
Sodium citrate.
Sodium hydroxide—prohibited for use in lye peeling of fruits and vegetables.
Sodium phosphates—for use only in dairy foods.
Sulfur dioxide—for use only in wine labeled “made with organic grapes,” Provided, That, total sulfite concentration does not exceed 100 ppm.
Tetrasodium pyrophosphate (CAS # 7722-88-5)—for use only in meat analog products.
Tocopherols—derived from vegetable oil when rosemary extracts are not a suitable alternative.
Xanthan gum.
(c)-(z) [Reserved]
[68 FR 61993, Oct. 31, 2003, as amended as 68 FR 62217, Nov. 3, 2003; 71 FR 53302, Sept. 11, 2006; 72 FR 58473, Oct. 16, 2007; 73 FR 59481, Oct. 9, 2008; 75 FR 77524, Dec. 13, 2010; 77 FR 8092, Feb. 14, 2012; 77 FR 33298, June 6, 2012; 77 FR 45907, Aug. 2, 2012; 78 FR 31821, May 28, 2013; 78 FR 61161, Oct. 3, 2013]

[smokeywolf]

The above is a good reason to grow your own or know your farmer really, really well.

[MaryB]

Why I buy from locals! I grow a lot of my own veg plus I am a member in a CSA that a friend owns. I help weed out there so I know the stuff is not getting doused with chemicals.

[jcwit]

Every thing we eat is composed of chemicals and most of those listed occur naturally in nature anyway.

What a joke.

But as always do as one wishes.

Just don't put misinformation out there for others to follow.

[StolzerandSons]

Every thing we eat is composed of chemicals and most of those listed occur naturally in nature anyway.
What a joke.
But as always do as one wishes.
Just don't put misinformation out there for others to follow.

That's why I posted the actual CFR so there wouldn't be any misinformation about what is and is not allowed to be used on products that are labeld "organic".
It's not a study, a blog, a magazine or an opinion, it is the exact regulations that the Gov't(USDA, FDA, Alphabet soup, et. al.) uses for "organic" products for the publics consumtion.

I didn't make any comment on whether those things listed were good or bad, I posted factual information from the source that regulates the industry. You can take away from those lists whatever you want to believe but they are not a joke or misinformation they are the facts straight from the source.

[outdoorfan]

USDA Certified Organic certification tells one two things that are useful to know, in my opinion. One is that the food is non GMO and the other is that chemical pesticides have not been used. The consumer is free to exercise their own judgement. TJ

I agree with this, at least for the most part. But, where something has to be certified by any form of governernment, AND, when the grower is only interested in profit, will make for a direct line for shortcuts and substances used that will not be what the typical organic consumer wants. This is my opinion, of course, but I think it's sound. In other words, "organic" consumer beware!

[outdoorfan]

That's why I posted the actual CFR so there wouldn't be any misinformation about what is and is not allowed to be used on products that are labeld "organic".
It's not a study, a blog, a magazine or an opinion, it is the exact regulations that the Gov't(USDA, FDA, Alphabet soup, et. al.) uses for "organic" products for the publics consumtion.

I didn't make any comment on whether those things listed were good or bad, I posted factual information from the source that regulates the industry. You can take away from those lists whatever you want to believe but they are not a joke or misinformation they are the facts straight from the source.



Thanks for posting that list. Although many of those things appear to be "natural", in my opinion it gives lots of flexibility to the growing organic industry to apply tactics that the consumer doesn't want.

We don't use hardly anything in our gardens, and I suspect most of you have have posted here don't either.

[GabbyM]

We use no pesticides on our GMO corn. Used to use tons of it in the old days. Besides being Roundup resistant the GMO corn we plant is not susceptible to worms like corn borer. I'll reiterate for you thick headed out there. We use zero pesticides in our corn production. Don't use any on the soy beans either.

Also using chemical weed control negates the need to till between the rows with a row crop cultivator. This alone saves copious amounts of fuel. Plus helps prevent soil erosion. No cultivating also increases yields since you don't tear roots and damage the plant in other ways. Soil moisture is also lost with tillage.

No government man in a black suit has ever visited me to order the use of GMO seeds.
Most of the scare propaganda over GMO grain. Comes from China and Japan as they manipulate the grain markets to there advantage. Generally with the help of minions on the China payroll at the USDA and people like Hillary and Obama who run there campaigns on China money. Non of this has anything to do with nutrition. I think Obama is in Europe at a climate change summit as I write this. It all just keeps piling up.

[outdoorfan]

Thanks for sharing your methodology.

The issue then is still the stuff in the corn, for those who are concerned over that.

[GabbyM]

Thanks for sharing your methodology.

The issue then is still the stuff in the corn, for those who are concerned over that.

What "stuff" are you referring to? Stuff being such a technical term and all. Do you mean starch and oil?

[smokeywolf]

Every thing we eat is composed of chemicals and most of those listed occur naturally in nature anyway.

What a joke.

But as always do as one wishes.

Just don't put misinformation out there for others to follow.

jcwit, you, perhaps better than others, certainly understand that the chemicals found in nature, just like the chemicals in the pharmaceuticals that keep you alive are only safe if consumed in known and controlled amounts or dosages.

I try to take in generous amounts of anti-oxidants. However, some known sources of anti-oxidants such as blueberries, carrots, beets and especially spinach and rhubarb also have quite a bit of oxalic acid in them. Oxalic acid works in concert with (binds with) calcium in the intestines to produce crystals that collect in the kidneys to form "stones". I'm one of those unfortunate individuals who is prone to these "calcium stones".
I watch my intake of berries, plums, carrots and certain leafy greens. I just plain don't eat spinach, chard or beets.

It's fine that many, if not most of these chemicals found in GMOs are also found in nature. As long as the levels duplicate nature and there are no other chemicals that may react (like a bad drug interaction) badly with those "naturally occurring" in the plant.

[jcwit]

That's why I posted the actual CFR so there wouldn't be any misinformation about what is and is not allowed to be used on products that are labeld "organic".
It's not a study, a blog, a magazine or an opinion, it is the exact regulations that the Gov't(USDA, FDA, Alphabet soup, et. al.) uses for "organic" products for the publics consumtion.

I didn't make any comment on whether those things listed were good or bad, I posted factual information from the source that regulates the industry. You can take away from those lists whatever you want to believe but they are not a joke or misinformation they are the facts straight from the source.

What a joke, wasn't directed at you or what you posted.

It's a joke, folks get all wrapped up in this "organic" issue at all.

People are eating what's available to them whether it be in the city or in the country, people are going to the Dr's for health issues and getting shots to keep from getting sick. Thousands upon thousands are getting killed by drunk drivers and those using cell phones.

And all the while the avg. age of people is twice as long as it was 100 years ago.

YUP! We got a lot to worry about GMO crops and GMO fed deer. We got a lot to worry about organic crops and organic fed deer.

It's a joke!



I agree with you Stolzerandsons. I think?

[jcwit]

jcwit, you, perhaps better than others, certainly understand that the chemicals found in nature, just like the chemicals in the pharmaceuticals that keep you alive are only safe if consumed in known and controlled amounts or dosages.

I try to take in generous amounts of anti-oxidants. However, some known sources of anti-oxidants such as blueberries, carrots, beets and especially spinach and rhubarb also have quite a bit of oxalic acid in them. Oxalic acid works in concert with (binds with) calcium in the intestines to produce crystals that collect in the kidneys to form "stones". I'm one of those unfortunate individuals who is prone to these "calcium stones".
I watch my intake of berries, plums, carrots and certain leafy greens. I just plain don't eat spinach, chard or beets.

It's fine that many, if not most of these chemicals found in GMOs are also found in nature. As long as the levels duplicate nature and there are no other chemicals that may react (like a bad drug interaction) badly with those "naturally occurring" in the plant.

Right you are!

What's the old saying? All things in moderation?

[smokeywolf]

Right you are!

What's the old saying? All things in moderation?

Except for vintage shootin' irons.

[jcwit]

There are exceptions to make the rule true.

[StolzerandSons]

What a joke, wasn't directed at you or what you posted.
I agree with you Stolzerandsons. I think?

My bad, unfortunately that is one of the disadvantages with this form of communication it's hard to tell exactly who is speaking to who during any given point in the discussion.

Wow that's a rare occurence, usually I'm fairly disagreeable according to my wife. haha.

[jcwit]

True on all forums, we have no way of seeing facial expressions, tone of voice and all the other ways we communicate.

Take care, and have a good one.

[GabbyM]

I'll toss this tidbit out here fyi.
I have central nervous system damage from handling herbicide when I was a kid. The granules we used to load into planter mounted boxes to spread on the rows. Bags were light so a youngster could lift them while the big boys lifted the forty pound seed bags in. Respirators were supposed to be in use but I never in my life saw anyone use one. It's my opinion things are much better now on both ends of the food chain. Producer and consumer.

[jaysouth]

GMO 'activists' like global warming bots need a real religion with a real prophet. Remember al gore promised us that NYC would be underwater by 2013.

GMO "science": Someday it may.......................

[xdmalder]

Right you are!

What's the old saying? All things in moderation?

So tell me how do you know what moderation is. By what someone tells you? BAH!

[xdmalder]

I'll toss this tidbit out here fyi.
I have central nervous system damage from handling herbicide when I was a kid. The granules we used to load into planter mounted boxes to spread on the rows. Bags were light so a youngster could lift them while the big boys lifted the forty pound seed bags in. Respirators were supposed to be in use but I never in my life saw anyone use one. It's my opinion things are much better now on both ends of the food chain. Producer and consumer.

Bet those "scientists" back in the day said those pesticides were totally safe. Just wear a mask and all will be alright.

[GabbyM]

GMO 'activists' like global warming bots need a real religion with a real prophet. Remember al gore promised us that NYC would be underwater by 2013.

GMO "science": Someday it may.......................

Yes and what is a flip is the same people want us to drive fart powered cars. with roundup we don't have to run a cultivator plow through the filed. That was days on end on a tractor burning five gallons per hour of fuel. So where is the global warming crowd? Tractors tend to leak about a quart of hydraulic fluid per hour also. I'm no tree hugger but no more than about 101% of tree huggers about our ecology. Shucks I even have a college degree in the field. Unlike Al Gore. Tractors are better for the ecology the less we need to use them. Just like cars. Fuel burn is one issue. Then the six digit price tag for a new tractor. Lightest tractor I run down row crop weighs over ten thousand pounds. It's an old John Deere 4010. Then we have a 29 thousand pound tractor. Soil compression under those wheels cuts down on yield. Yield equals food in someone's belly. Do we need to find a better way to produce food. Well obviously as we always have that need. Thousands of hard working very intelligent Agronomist are doing just that. I personally know a few of them and don't think any of them consider themselves to be working for some evil empire. Frankly that would be about as far from reality as I can imagine. Totally upside down. I have worked with soy bean Agronomist from the U of I before. It was simply about breading beans resistant to blight. That's it. end of story. Sorry if that is boring but that's all there was to it. Being dumb *** country boys we were pretty excited about another ten bushels per acre. Like in feeding another half billion people every year. Dint' realize I was just a big *** hole Orwellian monster.

[jcwit]

So tell me how do you know what moderation is. By what someone tells you? BAH!

Please point out where I said that or even implied it, you tell us what moderation is being as you claim to know it all!

[jcwit]

Bet those "scientists" back in the day said those pesticides were totally safe. Just wear a mask and all will be alright.

No they did not, I remember reading the labels back in the 50's & 60's when I was young and invincible.

For that matter I also remember playing with lead & mercury.

[GabbyM]

Bet those "scientists" back in the day said those pesticides were totally safe. Just wear a mask and all will be alright.

Correct but my father and Grandfather were such tight wads they did not want to pay money for the mask. Warnings were large on every bag. Big issue was when you burned the bags. Later they came out with brand name lock and load with plastic containers you twist locked onto the frame then recycled back to distributor. There are actually fewer warnings on herbicides now than back then. Worst national issue we have now is residential use of chemicals by non trained people. EPA actually list that as the worst water way runoff issue. Believe it or not. Farmers generally know more about what they are doing. Maybe since we are talking about around $470 an acre to put in a crop. We have a few weeds in our fields. Just find one in a McMansion yard. I'll get all on board with you on that drum beat. If you want to campaign you need to edjumacate yourself on the real dangers.

[MaryB]

My lawn is more weeds than grass and I don't care! I get one of my first salads of the year from the weeds!

[smokeywolf]

Bottom line is, like any other business, Monsanto and other biotech companies' first priority is to show the highest profit possible. Just as the banking and insurance industries have more influence over gov't than do the voters, so does the biotech industry. Therefore, the government's priorities do not include your well-being either.
Just as your defense is your responsibility, your health is also your responsibility.

Just as you would be foolish to trust the government, you'd also be foolish to trust a company who must put profits above the health of people who are several rungs down the consumer chain from their actual clients.

A company would be remiss in not putting profits first. You would be remiss in not putting your health first.

67 years ago, while pregnant with my sister, my mother was given a drug which had been in use for several years to prevent miscarriage. My sister was born with an orthopedic abnormality. 20 years after her birth, it was revealed that many of the children born to women who were given this drug were born with orthopedic abnormalities. My sister still suffers from the side effect of a drug administered to her mother.

For me, the most rational choice is, to the greatest extent practical and possible, wait another decade or two and see if those who have chosen to trust the studies conducted by and/or funded by Monsanto, have thrived and they and their offspring have suffered no abnormalities.

[Rockydog]

Bet those "scientists" back in the day said those pesticides were totally safe. Just wear a mask and all will be alright.

They are still not safe! THAT"S WHY GMO crops were developed. To make food production safer and to reduce harmful pesticide runoff from fields.

BTW Recent studies show that there is far more pesticide and phosphorus runoff from some city rainwater systems than from farm fields. City folks evidently don't pay much attention to application rates.

[farmerjim]

At the prices of these new chemicals you don't use more than the label. Actiguard $270.00 for 7 1/2 oz, Nimitz $1,600.00 a 2 1/2 gal jug.

[Hickory]

153544
A picture says a 1000 words.

[winchester85]

i cannot believe that some people are afraid of eating deer that ate GMO corn.

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

I was in France a couple of years ago. As I understand it, they do not allow GMO anything. It is also illegal to cross breed cattle. A trip to one of their farms is a trip back in time. A small farm with a few animals, a few acres tilled, and low production and quality. Sounds quaint, but the reality is that they are stuck 50 years ago.

[smokeywolf]

Hickory, not trying to pick a fight, but without info describing what was being done and why, that particular picture says nothing.

Winchester85, crossing cattle breeds is hardly the same as introducing DNA from a source outside the species which you are trying to alter.

[Hickory]

Hickory, not trying to pick a fight, but . . .

Go ahead, swing away, I've stepped behind the Plexiglas.

[smokeywolf]

Go ahead, swing away, I've stepped behind the Plexiglas.

My point was just that the pic may not have a connection with GMOed corn. It could have been taken in a different country and could have been someone checking corn after an aerial spraying (dusting) or a similar situation.

[StolzerandSons]

153544
A picture says a 1000 words.
Since there is no description to go with the picture and I don't have time for a thousand words, I'm going to go with Aliens, it has something to do with aliens.

[winchester85]

if you have the time to worry about whether the deer you killed has eaten gmo corn, and whether or not that will affect your life expectancy, i envy you.
the rest of us have far more serious things to deal with in our lives.

[MaryB]

If Monsanto GMO is such great stuff why does Mansanto BAN IT from their executive cafeteria?

[jcwit]

If Monsanto GMO is such great stuff why does Mansanto BAN IT from their executive cafeteria?

and you know this how?

Post a link, there might very well be a reason besides what you think.

Just stating it says nothing.

You do realize I saw Puff the Magic Dragon, today and I wasn't drinking.

[MaryB]

https://www.google.com/search?q=Monsanto+bans+GMO+from+cafeteria&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 bunch links and of course Monsanto claims otherwise

[jcwit]

https://www.google.com/search?q=Monsanto+bans+GMO+from+cafeteria&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 bunch links and of course Monsanto claims otherwise

I'm to believe

~http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/gm-food-banned-in-monsanto-canteen-737948.html

From the UK no less

And

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/Blogs/makingwaves/eat-it-up-monsanto/blog/39002/

Greenpeace, ya right. That's a joke right their.

[jcwit]

https://www.google.com/search?q=Monsanto+bans+GMO+from+cafeteria&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 bunch links and of course Monsanto claims otherwise

If Monsanto is so bent on killing off all the folks who eat their products, who? just who are they going to end up selling their seed to so people are able to eat the crops.

This is like the rumors going about the Dr.s killing off their patients with cancer drugs, so they must be killing off their own family members as well.

The whole world is out to get us, all the while we worry about the small stuff and the real problems go unchecked.

[starmac]

For crying out loud, if greenpeace claimed monsanto forced the use of gmo corn in their cafeteria, I might belive they have banned it.

[smokeywolf]

if you have the time to worry about whether the deer you killed has eaten gmo corn, and whether or not that will affect your life expectancy, i envy you.
the rest of us have far more serious things to deal with in our lives.

I've always felt that part of my responsibility as a husband and father is to make sure my family gets the best quality food that I can provide.

[Handloader109]

I eat anything my lovely wife cooks me!

[MaryB]

I will keep growing 90% of my own veg, buy meat form local farmers who only use drugs if an animal is sick(and being raised on pasture that is RARE), and keep on eating HEALTHY food that isn't full of contaminants from the FACTORY it is processed in.

[jcwit]

And I will continue to eat a hot dog now and then, as well as pop corn, a brat, or whatever. It's worked very well for 72 years.

Heck, I'll even enjoy a $50.00 meal at a restaurant now and, or even a $100.00 if the mood hits me. Then too the cheap ones at Golden Corral are good as well.

GMO? I have no idea, nor do I care.

Likely well not hurt me any more than all the lead I have to smelt.

[facetious]

I wish thy would come up with a genetically modified squirrel that ate dog poop.

That would have to be one of the best thing ever. Thy would keep the dog entertained while cleaning up after them at the same time![smilie=w:[smilie=w:

[Elkins45]

https://www.google.com/search?q=Monsanto+bans+GMO+from+cafeteria&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 bunch links and of course Monsanto claims otherwise

Believing anything from those sources about GMO food is like believing anything about guns from Bloomberg or the Brady Campaign. To quote myself: "Just because a handful of people on the Internet share an opinion doesn't prove it is correct."

We're just eating the corn, not mating with it.

[MaryB]

Whatever! Studies have proven the genetic material CAN pass into our blood...

[jcwit]

Whatever! Studies have proven the genetic material CAN pass into our blood...

Who cares. I sure don't at my age. Doesn't seem to hurt the other animals that eat it.

Got a hunch if it passes into the blood, the blood goes thre the kidneys which filter it out, it then passes to the bladder, guess what happens to it from there?

So, take 2 aspirin, get a good nights rest, and see me in the morning.

[xdmalder]

Who cares. I sure don't at my age. Doesn't seem to hurt the other animals that eat it.

Got a hunch if it passes into the blood, the blood goes thre the kidneys which filter it out, it then passes to the bladder, guess what happens to it from there?

So, take 2 aspirin, get a good nights rest, and see me in the morning.


I think I've heard something like that before. Oh yeah! "At this point what does it matter!" You must know her well!

[xdmalder]

Double post

[jcwit]

I think I've heard something like that before. Oh yeah! "At this point what does it matter!" You must know her well!

You sir are making an assumption, in other words you are "assuming", now then I thing you know what that makes of you, if you don't, study on it till you do.

By the way, NO, I do not know her, nor do I even wish to be acquainted to her in any way, nor are we even remotely discussing a military operation of any kind.

You wish to bring politics into this discussion, I suggest you take it to the pit.

[popper]

Lucky that I don't eat fish, now we have GMO salmon. For all you smart people out there, tell me how GMO stuff gets into your blood? If non-human DNA stuff from EVERYTHING we eat doesn't affect us, how will GMO corn do it? Something special they put in the DNA strings to attack us (commercial genocide)? Guess it's a cow 'time-bomb' automatically kills the cow at harvesting time so nobody has to hit it with a hammer? :bigsmyl2:

[starmac]

LOL There is an old saying. You are what you eat. I suspect everything you eat may get in your blood to an extent. That said life is too short to worry about gmo food products. I am not crazy about them, but I have been around organic farms quite a bit and will never pay an extra dime for anything labeled organic either.
I tend to think, home grown, home canned taste better and you know what you get, but as far as health wise, folks live longer now than they did when the masses grew and canned their own food, so it is just not something I feel like fretting over.

[Elkins45]

Whatever! Studies have proven the genetic material CAN pass into our blood...

Studies done by whom? I would be beyond astounded if functional gene fragments survived the digestive process and managed to pass through the vilii into the blood.

I'm willing to say I'm wrong but I will need proof from a credible source.

[sparky45]

I'd bet that every single piece of wild game we eat has itself dined on GMO'd corn, beans, ect.

[starmac]

Dadgum Sparky, I have to take that bet, as far as I know we have no gmo corn, beans, etc in Alaska, and I just don't belive these moose, sheep, caribou range far enough to dine on it. lol

[MaryB]

Do people normally eat Bt pesticide? No? Well you do in GMO corn! Nuff said!