Wood burner flue????

[tomme boy]

I want to build a small wood burner out of a propane cylinder. We have exposed cement block in the basement where I want to put it. This is where I do my man time in the winter. I normally run a electric oil radiator. It just barely breaks the chill. This is the reason I want to try a wood burner.

Now, it will only be run while I am down there. There is no carpet or paneling to catch fire where this will be placed.

I want to exhaust this out a window. So I will have to build or buy some kind of heat sink for the flue to pass. I am not sure on how high it will have to be.

I miss sitting by a wood burner. My grandparents had one in their kitchen when I was young. I would sit by it and listen to the old jents talk about whatever was the news of the day. I want to do this again! And hopefully this may help offset some electric cost as well.

[labradigger1]

My first question is do you have homeowners insurance?
If yes, they require certain things to be done and some won't let you have a wood burner at all.

[Rustyleee]

I believe the top of the flue needs to be above the peek of the roof so if you're going from the basement that will be a pretty high stove pipe.

[KAF]

http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/the-basics-on-how-to-install-a-wood-burning-stove.147798/

[Buck Neck It]

Selkirk Metalbestos makes everything you need for the installation.

Be warned: anything not UL approved (homemade) or not installed strictly to code can void your fire insurance.

[SSGOldfart]

I'm thinking about doing the same in my garage,still miss all those hours sitting around the stove killing coffee.

[rush1886]

Local codes will vary, but basically, you'll need the top of the stack to clear the roofline by 24". Additionally, and this is where building codes can get sticky, any part of the stack in contact with, or "close proximity to" flammable surfaces, will need to be approved, UL listed double wall, or triple wall pipe.

As painful as it may be, check with your local building dept, you may have to pull a permit as well, and definetly converse with your homeowner's agent.

[shooter93]

Yes...by all means despite the hassle contact you area for code requirements, permits and inspections. Heaven forbid that anything should ever happen but if it did and you were not in compliance with requirements your insurance company will balk at paying you and you don't need that hassle.

[BD]

Minimum code most places is top of stack 24" above anything within 10'. Top of stack 24" above the ridge is the best bet and will draft well anywhere not under tall trees or at the base of a mountain. Most codes do not address the construction of the stove, but rather the codes for clearance to combustibles. The link is to a pretty basic guideline:http://www.concordgroupinsurance.com/images/stories/namic%20woodstove%20install.pdf

[bangerjim]

Codes......codes......and codes!!!!!!!

If I were you, I would never attempt such an install without the assistance of a person or company licensed and bonded in wood stove installation in your area. And NOT stuff off the net! Lots of problems can and do exist!

And make sure your home owner's insurance is paid up B4 lighting anything you home-brew without professional installations!

Did mention local codes?

good luck.

[Plate plinker]

I used to lay up a chimney or two and can tell you that you need to be high up with your stack your you will have problems. A long horizontal run away from the house might work, but a homemade wood stove is a bad idea for your house. Outbuildings? yeah whatever. A home no way.

[funnyjim014]

Skip the hassle of making a stove. Check Craigslist for something cheap also call some stove places for a take out used stove. If u were local i know someone who is using 2 old pot bellys for porch end tables

[LaPoint]

You may want to consider putting in a used pellet or corn stove if you want supplemental heat and the ambiance that a wood stove gives. Many of the use a 3" insulated "PL" chimney and can be vented out a sidewall. Living in IA, you should be able to find corn easily. Less hassle than butchering a tree or two also.

[starmac]

Wow, lots of problems associated with burning wood, by the way I deliver logs that used to be trees (before they were butchered) to the pellet mill daily, this time of year. That is where pellets come from, is butchered trees, though we just call them logs.

I have seen some nice homebuilt stoves that are used to heat houses.
The basement and all the stovepipe installation is where you will run into trouble, The pipe itself is not cheap these days either, especially the tripple wall stuff.

[MaryB]

Get a pellet or corn stove as mentioned. You can just replace that window with something fireproof and vent through the wall. No chimney required! My corn stove vent is 3 feet long total!

I was looking at a small wood stove in the new garage. Stove $350, chimney $800...

[starmac]

What does a pellet stove cost?? The one thing about a wood stove, is once the cost of stove and installation, your expenses are done if you cut your own wood, minus gas oil and labor, and they work with zero electricity.
My son has a pellet stove to help with the oil boiler, when the leectricity went out he had no, so now has a genset to go along with it. lol

[tomme boy]

Has anyone plated with what they called a rocket stove? The exhaust temp can be really low if built right. And it will be done to code.

[bangerjim]

Just do what I did when I lived in cold climates (Iowa and Wyoming) - buy a commercial wood stove and have it installed BY CODE by a professional installer. Saved me lots of money over time. Wood was free from my property. Heated the entire BIG basements in the dead of winter.

Just remember to clean your flue every fall! And sometimes in the late winter if you are burning sappy woods. A chimney fire is something you do NOT want. Talk about a "rocket stove!" OMG.

[BD]

Sorry for the rant, but once again I'm wondering what rabbit hole hole I fell into on the way home from work.

I suppose this depends on who you are, and what you are capable of. I've heated every home or business I've had in North America with wood, or wood and solar, except two, going back until I was 13 years old. (twelve buildings, maybe 20 different stoves over a period of 47 years?). Total of None burned, I'm still alive, and I think I've home built about 6 wood burners to date, most using oil drums and "door kits", with firebrick added. It ain't rocket science here folks. Even the "rocket" stove isn't rocket science. Compared to the stated purpose of this forum, "hand loaded cast boolits", the combustion of wood for area heat is a very well established, nearly completely understood, process that dates back about 5,000 years at this point. I would guestimate that it is 500 times safer than hand loading cast boolits??. Read two books and be at about the same level level of understanding achieved after 20 years and 50 books concerning interior ballistics?? If you think it's OK to hand load a cast boolit in an antique military rifle designed for military jacketed loads, BUT, you are hesitant to build or install a wood burning heating appliance, you need to step back 20 yards and look in the mirror. If you can still see yourself at 20 yards, you can learn to understand burning hard wood cut in pieces for heat. Look at the clearance specs from the insurance industry, keep your chimney clean, and use common sense and you will be fine.

[BD]

I'm going to estimate a knowledgeable person operating wood burning appliances in the home as roughly 100 times safer that that same level of knowledge using gas appliances?? I would bet that insurance actuarial stats support this.

[bearcove]

If not a UL listed stove it must be installed to standard clearances. UL listed stoves come with a cut sheet showing req clearances. UNLESS your entire house where you are installing the stove and flue is made entirely of non flammable materials it is considered flammable. Read the fire code. covers stoves. My insurance will cover home built stoves, If installed with correct clearances. State Farm.

[bearcove]

Codes......codes......and codes!!!!!!!

If I were you, I would never attempt such an install without the assistance of a person or company licensed and bonded in wood stove installation in your area. And NOT stuff off the net! Lots of problems can and do exist!

And make sure your home owner's insurance is paid up B4 lighting anything you home-brew without professional installations!

Did mention local codes?

good luck.

It is not the local code, so much. It is a national fire code if I remember correct. The local stuff is usually permitting and insp, in other words TAX. As far as installing it is dead simple get the ACTUAL code and follow. it even defines the terms. If you don't understand talk to the local fire dept.

[Buck Neck It]

You should be able to make a dandy stove out of an old propane tank. It would be a fun project. Get a second smaller tank to cut up for shields and baffles. There is probably at least a dozen different ways to do it.

Throw your design out here to really get the comments started!

[MaryB]

PLEASE be careful cutting a propane tank! I have seen the aftermath of them exploding when someone cut into one that still had a pocket of gas... we hauled in the severed arm but they couldn't put it back on, to much damage. Guy survived but was blind and deaf after...

[tomme boy]

Cut up a bunch of them over the years. Fill them with water and let it dribble into the tank when full for about 1/2 an hour. That will remove all gas.

I am on the look out right now for a water heater to get the tank. I may run down to the scrap yard to have a look. I have some aluminum I may be able to trade for a tank. Rather do trades right now. Money is going for gas to get back and forth to the Dr. 90 miles away. The other reason for this. A friend also has a sheet metal shop that makes duct work. I should be able to have him make up the exhaust pipe and the stove jack for the window.

[white eagle]

Get a pellet or corn stove as mentioned. You can just replace that window with something fireproof and vent through the wall. No chimney required! My corn stove vent is 3 feet long total!

I was looking at a small wood stove in the new garage. Stove $350, chimney $800...

I found that out as well
bought a stove for may garage/hunting shack
and the piping-stove pipe cost as much or more than the stove
I was not pleased

[dilly]

Has anyone plated with what they called a rocket stove? The exhaust temp can be really low if built right. And it will be done to code.

I have never actually done anything with them but I've done a good deal of reading.

In a simple rocket stove the exhaust is the burner and is of course very hot. Ideally it's a clean exhaust.

In a rocket thermal mass heater, it's designed so that the heat is extracted from the exhaust into a thermal mass that will store and radiate the heat long after the fire burns out. Sounds like a great system but it would be hard to get all the proportions just right so that you have good draw, ample heating, clean burn, etc. Most rocket thermal mass heaters that I have seen involve a horizontal bench made of cob that holds the heat. In this system, the ideal exhaust is pure, clean, soot free CO2 at relatively low temperatures. The higher the exhaust temperature the less heat goes into your home or work space.

As far as building them, most of the more sophisticated designs I've seen are not in my opinion well designed. The temperatures in the burn chamber of an efficient rocket stove can be incredibly high, and most mild steel setups can corrode in short order with regular use. Remember you are essentially talking of a permanent chimney fire. Most of them are thrown together by save-the-earth hippies who don't generally have a good grasp on what materials are suited for things. I've seen a good number of youtube videos of a guy who says "oh this is a great furnace," only to see a followup video a year or two later about how he burned through the burn chamber.

If I were to make one and intend it to be permanent, I would probably use stainless steel. Very few designs do this.

An outfit by the name of Silverfire makes rocket stoves and TLUD (top lit updraft) wood gasification stoves. They are small, lightweight, stainless, and generally get good reviews. It looks to me like the stainless that they do use is actually quite thin, however. Their designs are very low mass so if you wanted to heat a thermal mass you'd have to put some water or sand or whatever in a pot on the burner, or just heat up the air if that's what you want.

http://www.silverfire.us/

A wood gasification stove basically redirects the wood fumes back into the flames causing a more complete burn as well. There are a lot of similarities and the guy that owns Silverfire has about got me convinced that the TLUD is better than the rocket designs, at least for cooking if not for heating.


Another outfit that does rocket heaters andstoves is Dragon Heaters.

http://www.dragonheaters.com/

Some of their rocket masonry designs appeal to me because they use more vertical space and less horizontal space. Lots of people probably don't want a big adobe looking bench in their homes anyway. The masonry designs use masonry as the thermal mass. Their "bells" for catching heat and letting it cool and fall appeals to me as well.

Hopefully some of those websites at least provide some food for thought, if you'd rather build it yourself.

I hope some of that was informative.

[bangerjim]

Water heater tank???????? That will burn clean thru in one season! You might want to rethink that.

My stoves were all 3/8" and greater plate steel! Bottom was 3/4". Really thick for longevity and excellent heat transfer.

And remember your flue pipe needs to be double wall...with a code air gap between the outside and the inner HOT pipe.


Good luck.

bangerjim

[tomme boy]

I have a 1/2'' plate to use for the top where the flames were to burn. The tank was to get a cover for the actual burn chamber. If they burn through, it is on the top. That was were I was going to put the plate. I have been thinking about these for a long time.

The exhaust comes off the bottom of the tank after the burn is completely done. Most of the temps I have seen are in the 100-120 deg. range going up the flue.

I might not do this till next year as it is going to take a while to round up everything. And to check into all the local stuff to do this right.

[Mytmousemalibu]

If I were to do a little basement install like this, I'd go find me a modern beer keg. Its about the right size and made of decent enough thickness of stainless steel, I think it would look kinda neat if done right. Of course your talking about having stainless welded so it needs to be back purged or coated with Solar Flux which is what i'd do. I just like stainless, so much more durable for heat and corrosion resistance. Without checking and just guessing, i'd say kegs are a 300 series steel, probably 304 which would be fine. You could take a scotch brite pad and burnish it when assembled and make it look nice. You could even make it into a small rocket heater. A good friend of mine heats his house with a large rocket heater we built out of an old semi truck tank. The large volume of it does well to draw the heat out of the discharge. The whole unit sits in front of his houses original in-wall fireplace and the flue is plumbed and run up the original brick flue of his house. That unit provides most of his houses heat in the winter but he does use a couple of Perfection kero heaters at times. He has essentially unlimited access to old pallets that he collects and busts down to feed the rocket for free. It's pretty thrifty on its rate of consumption. You know, if all you want is a little heat and some fire you might have a look at getting you a wick kero heater. The old Perfection "Firelight" has a 360 degree facet'ed pyrex globe that throws a beautiful light and makes good heat. A newer unit will do really well for heat but not quite as pretty. No flues needed. You only need to crack a window in the room or if your house is drafty, thats usually fine. Its only to replenish oxygen. A properly running kero wick heater produces essentially NO carbon monoxide, unlike all other forms of liquid, solid, or gaseous fuel sources. A proper running heater is odor free too. I run up to 3 of them in my house every winter. They are quite safe if you follow the diections too. My dad, a retired firefighter was staunchly against them at first, he now loves them and one keeps him company in the living room in the evenings. I have about 10 of them of all vintages, I "collect" and restore them and even repair & sell some. I have made converts out of more than a few of my friends.

[BD]

All the beer kegs I've hefted have been aluminum. A very poor choice for a wood stove. Maybe 6 out of 8 wood stoves I've built have been made of 55 gallon oil drums. I usually stack one on top of the other, and line the lower one, (the one with the actual fire in it), with firebrick on the bottom and up the sides. The drums last 7 or 8 years, and then I replace them, re-using the door, legs and flue thimble.
All of the "rocket" stoves I've seen have had an oil drum as the after draft fire chamber. Sure, they burn out in a couple of years, but they radiate very well, and they are free :). "free" is what wood stoves are all about.

[MaryB]

I have 2 Kero heaters for emergency backup. Friend burns it all winter long so if I don't use the 20 gallon I keep on hand I just sell it to him at the price I paid or at current rate if it is cheaper and replace it in the fall with fresh. Have to watch out for the red dye kerosene they use up here for truck fuel in winter. Stuff stinks and gums up wicks fast.