Questions about casting from a Lee 20 lb pot

[Whitesmoke]

Hi Guys,
I am backing casting for my .54 cal after several years absence. I have borrowed the pot from another shooter but it came to me full of solidified bullet alloy (he shoots a Quigley). The ingots I made to keep his alloy still seems contaminated with some rust and that's from the steel pot surface

I have heated the pot up and scraped and wire brushed all the dross and rust, I can, out from it but am having trouble effectively cleaning between the side wall and the bottom cast valve.

I am trying to get the interior pot surface as clean as can be.

I am considering using vinegar to kill the rust then after the casting session coat areas that rust it in beeswax.Do you think this will do more harm than good?

I feel if I can keep the interior of the pot with minimum rust ,my chances of throwing consistent ball weights shall be much increased. I am making ingots of the original pure,sheet lead to remove the junk and adhesive from it. I will then cast balls using the clean purer lead ingots.

Are the efforts I am making necessary ,or am I wasting my time.

I am casting -530 diam balls from a new Lee 6 cavity mould. What are your experiences with a Lee 6 cavity mould.It is brand new for TOTW this week.

The balls are intended for monthly competition target work, occasional rendezvous events but not hunting.

What weight tolerance are we looking for for a .530 ball. Books say 223 gns weight. How much below this should I allow before I start to discard the under weight balls?

Your opinions as always shall be well regarded.
Thanks
Grahame

[idahoron]

In my opinion the work you're thinking about doing on the pot is wasted time. Put lead in it scrape it hard, skim it off and make bullets. If you want the best bullets use a ladle.

[Mk42gunner]

In my opinion the work you're thinking about doing on the pot is wasted time. Put lead in it scrape it hard, skim it off and make bullets. If you want the best bullets use a ladle.
I tend to agree with this^^; there is clean, then there is ridiculous. You aren't going to make tea in the pot, so it doesn't need to be spotless.

As to the Lee six cavity RB mold-- I have not used one, and of the two cavity Lee RB molds I have used, I never weighed the balls; they were meant for use in revolvers.

I would weigh a few to see what the actual weight is, and see how consistent the cavities are. You might find they are within a grain or two and won't need sorting.

Robert

[Omnivore]

Any gunk that's loose will float to the top. That being said, some gunk will form in the pour valve area, and in mine that means the spout will start to clog frequently. I'd remove the valve and get down in there with some steel wool, and likewise the valve stem where it seats in the bottom of the pot. Otherwise listen to the previous comments.

A bottom pour pot can be a good, fast way to go, but you'll be fiddling with that valve from time to time. I keep an ingot mold sitting under it at all times, to catch the inevitable dripping.

If the rusty ingots are of a known alloy, good for your round balls, there's no reason to throw it out. The rust will float to the top of the melt. Vigorously stir in some Marvelux, and you should have good lead there. Then you just reduce it occasionally with some wax, or I really like pine pitch which I pick up on my walks. If he was shooting 45-70 or 45-110 he was probably using a lead/tin alloy like 20:1 and so all I'd do is dilute it with an equal amount, or more, of pure lead. One or two percent tin won't hurt a thing. Your friend should be able tell you what alloy he had in there.

Casting round ball from a bottom pour, especially if the pot is full, you'll get lead wanting to jump back out of the mold as you pour, because of the high spout pressure. It's not really a problem, but if it bothers you then cast from a half full pot. You get a constantly changing flow rate with a bottom pour. That's what I use. It's fine. Just sayin'. They are handy. You can let the top of the pot get pretty ugly before you toss in more wax or pitch. With a bottom pour, the nastiness on the top isn't really a factor.

Round ball is the easiest thing to cast because there are no corners to fill in, but I'm guessing you'll still get more than one or two grains variance. Try weighing some commercial round ball, and I bet you'll see more than two grains variance. When you're getting nice-looking balls, start keeping them, and then you'll just have to weigh a bunch to see. You're looking for the fit you want, and reasonable consistency, not necessarily some target weight at first. The fit can be controlled by the patch material you use, so reasonable consistency is the main thing, I'd think.

Six cavities, eh? I usually find two cavities to be enough to try to keep running right. If you can consistently get all six to drop good balls, let me know so I can applaud you. But then if I were to get another six cavity mold, round ball would be the first choice.

[rfd]

with a near full pot, i use a spoon to scrap any gunk and skim off the dross - won't get all of it off the pot sides, and no big deal.

for the most consistent balls or bullets, i cast one at a time and using the same cavity on a multi cavity mould.

ladle is the way to go if consistent weight balls/bullets is the goal.

ymmv.

[Sasquatch-1]

I find the only problem I have when casting dead soft lead is I get a few wrinkles (fail to fill out) on the ball. When this happens I add a quarter to a half of a corncob ingot of pewter to a 10lb pot to bring up the tin.

If you are really worried about the dirt between the wall of the pot and the valve plug find an old .22 cleaning brush, it may fit in the space.

[Hellgate]

When debris ends up clogging or slowing the pour spout I keep a vise grip pliers with a small nail (3/4" brad) clamped in it at a 90 degree angle (nail jutting out the side of the jaws) to shove up into the spout from the bottom to dislodge the blockage and resume the flow. I lift the valve when doing this and it spills some. I keep a little screwdriver handy to twist the valve stem back & forth to stop the dripping. Wear safety glasses and boots with your pant cuffs outside the boots.

[Whitesmoke]

Hey fellas,
Thanks for your hel pand advice to date.

I got the pot cleaned out by removing the lift arm and the valve rod completely .
I have scraped the rust out of the pot.The fine slotted screw in the top of the rod was seized in its thread and I managed to break it off flush with the top of the adjustment rod.

I know Lee have cheap spares so I'll send for one and receive it in a couple of weeks. In the mean time I'll drill and re tap this one on the lathe, It not a major set back.The screw head only serves to adjust the height setting of the shut off rod.I have all of the bottom feed mechanism removed from the pot. It was mine and I gave it to my friend when he started shooting- not real shooting though -he shoots a quigley.When I give the pot back it will be repaired as good as new.

The drain valve seems clogged so might see if it will stay that way for a while and melt some dirty lead to make clean casting ingots. ( update ) I have made a few ingots cast in a shallow biscuit pan .The biscuit slugs are a big enough size for ingot pieces and have come out pretty clean.

I bought a cheap stainless soup ladle and it will have the volume to fill the six cavities and then some.

The safety aspect is covered ,I wear script glasses and have full face visor for splashes.I am ex metal industry boilermaker welder so do the drill with shin high boots and long pants .

I pulled down Lee's spare part list and am wondering about the valve seat connection method in the pan.The exploded is view not great on detail.

Is the seat a 2 piece thing ,1 flanged part projecting through the pot, and the other piece -screwing on to projected threads. any ideas on that?

For now I will set up for some more ingots so i will have a supply of clean lead before I cast any round balls.
cheers
Grahame

[bangerjim]

I have never seen the bottom of any of my Lee 4-20's in years. Or scraped and cleaned as you are trying to do. Total waste of your time. And your buddy probably does not appreciate you messing up his working pot! Sounds like you have it torn up into just parts now!!!!!!!! Glad it is not my pot. Just another reason I never loan tools to anyone!

Leave it alone if not too late. Fill it with what you want to cast and go at it. The sides do not need to be clean and shiny. And Fe does not contaminate Pb.

banger

[fouronesix]

For me it's all about quality not quantity so, like some others have posted, I removed all the bottom pour parts from and plugged the hole on my Lee 20 and use a ladle. Plus, the Lee 20 is known as a dripomatic anyway. Did the same thing to my Saeco pot. And as a bonus- with all the bottom pour parts out of the way- fluxing, stirring, scraping, skimming and ladle dipping all are so much easier!

[rfd]

the lee magnum 20 is perhaps the best value in a ladle casting furnace.

[dondiego]

I broke my plunger off at the same point as you. The replacement from LEE is a little different. It will have a notch in the plunger that will be located on a separate screw head that is used to make the height adjustment.

[Fly]

Lot of great advice. Much of what was said I wondered about. My first Lee pot I sold
after over 30 years of use & bought another. Rust has always been something I have had
to deal with on mind. I store it in my shop, & it seems to be impossible to prevent. I scrape
the sides with a spoon, best I can.

I keep a short peace of tig welding rod to unstop my valve from time to time. I also use
saw dust for flux. I learned using saw dust from a ole plumber years ago. When stirred
in the lead it burns & chars & catches all the ole junk & floats it to the top to be skimmed
off.

Fly :bigsmyl2:

[bigted]

Lot of great advice. Much of what was said I wondered about. My first Lee pot I sold
after over 30 years of use & bought another. Rust has always been something I have had
to deal with on mind. I store it in my shop, & it seems to be impossible to prevent. I scrape
the sides with a spoon, best I can.

I keep a short peace of tig welding rod to unstop my valve from time to time. I also use
saw dust for flux. I learned using saw dust from a ole plumber years ago. When stirred
in the lead it burns & chars & catches all the ole junk & floats it to the top to be skimmed
off.

Fly :bigsmyl2:

I totally agree with this. I keep mine full all the time so if there be rust ... I don't know it. also I use sawdust mostly or candle wax from an old candle I been carvin into the pot for some years [the sawdust is far and away better in my opinion as it turns into carbon and seems to help the pour] as well and I always leave it on top of the melt so the air doesn't get to my melt. I then spoon off the black carbon and dross at the end of my casting ... add enough lead to refill the pot and shut it off. next time I just add 2 or 3 spoons of wood sawdust and stir till it is all black and stops smoking ... then cast till my arm wants to fall off.

[Whitesmoke]

I have never seen the bottom of any of my Lee 4-20's in years. Or scraped and cleaned as you are trying to do. Total waste of your time. And your buddy probably does not appreciate you messing up his working pot! Sounds like you have it torn up into just parts now!!!!!!!! Glad it is not my pot. Just another reason I never loan tools to anyone!

Leave it alone if not too late. Fill it with what you want to cast and go at it. The sides do not need to be clean and shiny. And Fe does not contaminate Pb.

banger

banger jim

My friend casts his slugs with a ladle, so removal of the stop rod mechanism benefits us both. He doesn't mind at all as he now can keep the melt clean as its easier to remove the ****.

I am still intend get the parts as they are cheap enough.I would like to try the bottom pour method to tray it against the ladle system, one against the other.

I bought the pot and gave it to him at a time when I was unable to shoot for a while.In addition I transferred several rifles to his name as I had no current license(required by law in Oz) at the time. It started him in black powder shooting.Given that level of trust we share tools all the time with no problems.

I am up to the stage where I am ready to cast round balls from clean ingots.

I shall report back the results.

I'll give the saw dust a try and see what happens.
Thanks for taking the time to reply

Grahame

[kcajeel]

Lots of good information here but you need to remember if your pouring balls you need 100% lead. Forget the tin, pewter, solder or any anything else. They should pour great with just lead. I primarily shoot target with my muzzleloader so I'm interested in accuracy. I've found that even if my balls are wrinkled they still shoot good. Matter of fact they shoot better than I can.

[dondiego]

You need pure lead for balls ONLY if they are to be used in cap and ball revolvers.

[Maven]

"You need pure lead for balls ONLY if they are to be used in cap and ball revolvers." ...dondiego

Amen to this!

Grahame

I've been using the same Lee 20 lb. pot for 15+ years, but I removed the bottom pour mechanism and use only a ladle now. As for cleaning it, once it's empty, I let it cool completely and then either pour boiling water in it or fill it almost to the top and boil water in it. I then scrub the sides with a small brass or steel brush: Repeat as many times as necessary.

As for the quality of Lee 6 cavity moulds, I have 5, though not for round balls, and am very pleased with mine. Their 2 cav. RB moulds cast well too. In fact, I have a recently purchased Lee .600" RB mould which casts as well as my high dollar Jeff Tanner of the same diameter, plus it has the convenience of a sprue cutter.

[ArrowJ]

For me it's all about quality not quantity so, like some others have posted, I removed all the bottom pour parts from and plugged the hole on my Lee 20 and use a ladle. Plus, the Lee 20 is known as a dripomatic anyway. Did the same thing to my Saeco pot. And as a bonus- with all the bottom pour parts out of the way- fluxing, stirring, scraping, skimming and ladle dipping all are so much easier!

I just bought a 20 lb Lee bottom pour. I am going to give it a go, but was indecisive about bottom pour or ladle. I noticed you plugged yours. Can you tell me how you did that should I decide I do not like bottom pour?

[ArrowJ]

Lot of great advice. Much of what was said I wondered about. My first Lee pot I sold
after over 30 years of use & bought another. Rust has always been something I have had
to deal with on mind. I store it in my shop, & it seems to be impossible to prevent. I scrape
the sides with a spoon, best I can.

I keep a short peace of tig welding rod to unstop my valve from time to time. I also use
saw dust for flux. I learned using saw dust from a ole plumber years ago. When stirred
in the lead it burns & chars & catches all the ole junk & floats it to the top to be skimmed
off.

Fly :bigsmyl2:

Could a guy spray the thing with Rem Oil or something similar and just have it burn off next time or would it still rust?