Pistol Powder: Help me understand

[wv109323]

I have been looking for a couple types of pistol powder to replenish what I have used in the last couple of years. I am not desperate yet and I will not pay through the nose. I have been waiting for things to return to normal
What I have noticed is almost no supply of common pistol powders like Bullseye, Unique, and WW231.
With these powders common loads is 4-6 grains making a pound load 1200 to 1700 rounds.
It seems if these powders are being hoarded, why is there near normal supply of pistol primers returning to near normal pricing? You need a primer for every round.
Hoarders would be hoarding powder and primers and supply or lack thereof should go hand in hand.
It is kinda like there is all kind of hot dog buns but you can't buy a wiener to put in it.
Also in my area rifle powders are fairly available on the shelves. Rifle loads require 4-10 times the amount of powder but they are available.
Are there more pistol reloaders than rifle reloaders?
Why are pistol primers available but not pistol powders?

[472x1B/A]

Sorry I don't have an answer for you. But I have the same 'problem', my go to store has full shelves of rifle and shotgun powder and lots of primers but no Bullseye, Unique, or 231 now. They haven't been able to get any Alliant powders for almost 2 years. 'I don't know.'

[Schrag4]

I would guess there are more pistol reloaders than there are rifle reloaders, but I don't really know.

Why are primers available? Well, there aren't that many different primers to choose from, but there are MANY powders. The ones you listed are scarce, but if you're willing to try other powders, you can buy as much pistol powder as you can afford right now.

[leadman]

I just bought a pound of Alliant 300 MP powder from the local Sportsmans Warehouse. Interesting that the lot number is the same as what I bought there about a year ago. Don't know why it was out of stock.
I also bought a bottle of Unique in the same store about a month ago.

[kungfustyle]

If you have a Bass Pro shop in your area they readily have pistol powder that you can order in a one pound container and pick it up at the store not having to pay the haz fee. http://www.basspro.com/Alliant-Powder-Unique-Smokeless-Shotshell-Powder/product/110831127118/ http://www.basspro.com/Alliant-Powder-Bullseye-Smokeless-Pistol-Powder/product/110831127120/
if not save up and buy about 5lbs to make the haz fee worth it
http://powdervalleyinc.com/ at the moment they have tightgroup for $16/lb. get 3 and that will last you a long time.

[kungfustyle]

Powder valley also has Accurate 5, 7 and 9 available.

[rancher1913]

don't forget, shotgun powder is almost the same as pistol powder. you can work up a load for whats available.

[Schrag4]

Yeah, Powder Valley is one place I was referring to. They have 8lb jugs of several popular pistol powders in stock. HS-6, LongShot, the AA powders listed above, probably a few others that would work for you. I'm sure they're not the only online retailers that do.

[r6487]

As many of you know I work for ATK/New River Energetics where Alliant powder is made. I just wanted to inform you that ATK has officially lost the bid to run the Radford Army Ammunition Plant, but has a 5 year contract to remain there making medium caliber ammuntion and Alliant Powders. BAE Systems Inc. won the contract. There may be an interruption for U.S. made powders (everything except Reloader powders) from June 30th until God knows when, probably no more than 2 months while BAE and ATK negotiate thecosthttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=181640#) and deliveryhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=181640#) for NG and NC for Alliant powders. This means there MAY be a shortage of powder from all mfgs and all types of powder during this time. We have been working non stop to meet orders from all buyers. The word is that either ATK will move Alliant Powder to the LC plant (if they win that bid) in the next few years or they will sell Alliant Powder to BAE Systems because they expressed an interest in commercial powder and ammunition and because most of the machinery we use to make the powder is owned the the government and cannot be moved. I'll try to keep you guys informed if anyting else.


there is info out there about what is going on and why.

[Petrol & Powder]

Addressing the OP:
Handgun/shotgun powders have been in short supply for some time now but the situation is steadily improving. During the initial stage of the panic primers were in short supply. The primer situation improved first but it took longer for the powder supply to catch up with the demand.
The conspiracy theories were rampant but the reality was the demand simply outstripped the supply. Hoarding was a part of that demand. As people begin to feel that there will be powder available at the store tomorrow they are less inclined to purchase that pound of Bullseye for $70 when they see it on the shelf today. Economics and market forces eventually stop the stampede but that herd mentality is a strong force once it gets going.
As for the primer shortage ending before the powder shortage, I can only speculate but I have a few theories. First, the quantity of primers that one has on hand is easily determined; one primer = 1 completed round. The number of rounds that one can make from a pound of powder can be calculated (the OP did just that) but it requires some quick math. A person can look at a box of 1000 primers with two trays missing and say, I have 800 primers left but a partial can of powder isn't as easily converted to a known number of rounds.
I also think that during the early stages of the panic, primers appeared to be the weak link to reloaders because reloaders had powder on hand and to some extent could substitute one powder for another. (if I run out of Bullseye I can switch to ww231). A small pistol primer is a small pistol primer and there are fewer options for a reloader if primers become unavailable. So the initial run on supplies was concentrated more on primers than powder. When the panic really got rolling (the stampede was in full force) consumers expanded their hoarding to include powder. The primer supply recovered first and the powder supply is now returning.

Hang in there, don't pay too much because you are afraid it will not be available tomorrow.

[flyingmonkey35]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/02/e95a0d66f4297b67e50ff01d6de864b6.jpg

[Blackwater]

These are the times that kind'a call for a little experimentation. Buy a 1 lb. can of a powder you think you might like to try, and just try it. Some have discovered greater accuracy when they've done this, and converted from one powder to another just because they finally got the motivation to try something new to them. There are no guarantees in it, of course, but it's always worth a try. Just be sure to try incremental powder charges, and different primers, and see what your guns will do. Most every powder and bullet combo will have a "sweet spot" where they'll perform their best.

Forcing us to try new things isn't always a bad thing, and it surely broadens our experience a lot, too.

[RogerDat]

Wanted Unique and 2400, got titegroup. Seemed to work fine. Beat having to send the boolit down range using a slingshot.

There was a fire at ADI that took out some pistol powder manufacturing capacity. ADI makes powder for other brands to sell under their own label. Look up an ADI load (link is on this page for both rifle and pistol) then use this chart to find the equivalent powder sold under other brand names. http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders/equivalents.asp Lot of options besides the ones every one is chasing.

Back when Varget was being hoarded and unobtainable it seems no one was paying much attention to 4064 which is essentially the same powder according to Hodgdon when I called them.

[sargenv]

Powder valley has had Universal Clays available for the last month.. singles and 8's.. Titegroup has been in stock in and out for the last month. They just had Clays available for a short time yesterday in 14 oz cans.. and Winchester has had Auto Comp, 296, WSF, and WSH available for the last several weeks.. Ramshot Zip in singles has been mostly available, and Ramshot Sillouette in 1's and 4's available for some time.. The more expensive Vittavouri powders have mostly stayed in stock for several weeks.. even the very popular N320 which usually sells out fast. Hodgdon also had a run of HP38 a few weeks ago, but it went fast.

[wmitty]

r6487- thanks for the heads up on the possibility of a shortage next summer.

[Tackleberry41]

I understand what the OP is asking. It would make more sense for there to be a shortage of rifle powders vs pistol. Something like 9mm, a lbs of unique is 1500rds, so would you really need to stock that much of it. Vs something like my 300win mag where a lbs of powder won't even allow you to use up a box of bullets. So people should be buying 3 or 4 lbs of rifle powder to ever lbs of pistol, and therefore it would be rifle powder in short supply.

I have seen Unique and other popular ones on shelves, just not much of it. But I can walk in and buy piles of rifle powder. And its hard to take shops at their word. I was looking for H4350 for my 8mm. Went to the gun show, none, stopped at a reloading place. 'Oh its hard to get' so I bought an alternative. Couple days later walk into my LGS they have a case of it on the shelf. I had asked about them getting some, so they just ordered it. Guess its not in that short of supply then.

[cowboybart]

Jeff Bartlett has some similar to Unique
http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html

[sargenv]

It's funny that some think that 1500 rds is a lot.. if you plink 50-100 rounds a week it will last a good long time.. but I know action shooters who burn between 30-100k a year.. all of a sudden that case of Titegroup turns into a 1 year supply.. Most of them will opt to wait for 4 or 8 pound cans... which are certainly in short supply..

[rsrocket1]

Many of the shotgun shooters buy 2 jugs of powder at a time. Once the shortage started, it doesn't take much for them to double up. That would easily dry up a lot of suppliers in an already tight market.

The past couple of years have been great for us experimenters. The shortage of standard powders have opened our eyes to a whole world of compatible powders which will make our reloading much easier in the future. I was a die-hard Unique fan. Give me an 8 pound jug of Unique per year and I can load every handgun I have with 5 grains and be able to "get along". Of course, tailoring the load +/- 1 grain depending on the caliber will give better performance but it's nice to know that by making a custom dipper out of a cut case and soldered on rod, I can load without a powder measure.

I've only been able to buy four 1 pound bottles of Unique in the past two years, but I've been able to find many equivalent or substitute powders that will get me through this shortage or keep me going so long as some sort of 'faster than rifle' powder is available.

These are the powders I've tried and chronographed in 9mm, 38/357, 40 S&W, 45ACP and cast bullet .308/7.62x54R (~10 grain loads):
Red Dot/Promo - a bit faster than Unique. You won't get the top end velocity of Unique and the pressure will be a little higher, but will work fine.
e3 - even faster than Red Dot but burns very clean because it's a newer formula and with the higher pressures, gets more complete combustion.
20/28 - Don't tell anyone, but this is about as close to Unique without a "Hodgdon's Universal" label on it. Start your test loads 10% lower than Unique.
Clay Dot - essentially loaded like Hodgdon's Clays for low/medium velocity at peak pressures
Extra Lite - Same as Clays, good for low recoil, low velocity loads
Green Dot - In between Red Dot and Unique/Bullseye. A little slower than Red Dot and a bit faster than Unique
700X - like Clays/Clay Dot, a fast powder but with big flakes. Good performance if you can get over the metering difficulties.
800X - love this stuff in full power loads. Flakes are larger than primer flash holes but I've found a way to get it to meter consistently. Great for 9mm loads in getting velocity up while keeping pressures safe.
Titegroup - About as fast as Red Dot. Can almost be used to match Unique but you'll be dancing on the upper end of peak pressures.
Titewad - An excellent low cost alternative to Clays. Full pressure low velocity/low recoil loads.
AA5 and AA7 - excellent powders that I found on clearance. Works well in this same range
Ramshot True Blue - another good alternative to Unique. Ramshot Tac is a good alternative to H335 and W748 in .223 and .308

Many of these bottles now have a little over an ounce used (almost 13-15 ounces left) so during these past 2 years of "shortage", I now have a full 2+ year's supply of these 'test' powders to use (and I just found an 8 pound jug of Titegroup). When I've used up a box of primers, I've been going out and buying 2 boxes to replace it. I plan not to get caught short the next time. Who knows, this could be the next time.

[sargenv]

One box of primers.. is that one box in 1000 or 5000? :) I get nervous if I have that few primers..

[rsrocket1]

I used to keep about 4k SRP primers in stock for both pistol and .223 and 1k each of LRP and LPP. When I went through a box of 1000, I usually went out to buy another to replace it. Now I'll buy 2 to replace it.