Wrinkled bullets......help please

[cdrCargil]

Just cast my first bullets ever tonight.

I have all Lee equipment, pot, press, molds, sizer/luber etc. I'm using lee .452 trunticated cone molds that have always worked well in my .45 cal pistols. Right now I'm shooting an S&W99 .45 cal auto.


Well I melted down a ton of WW and made ingots yesterday, and today I fired up the pot to finally cast some bullets. I got the mold up to temp and my first castings were wrinkly. Fine, by the time the mold was in full swing I was turning out some nice ones. But when I went through them after casting about 60 rounds about half had small wrinkles in them. Some were no more then a little wrinkle on the side of the cone or near the lube ring. So I set them aside for remelting.


I am a novice caster and need some advice. I have read quite a bit before begining to cast and cant seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Suggestions would be welcome.

Richard

[waksupi]

Just cast my first bullets ever tonight.

I have all Lee equipment, pot, press, molds, sizer/luber etc. I'm using lee .452 trunticated cone molds that have always worked well in my .45 cal pistols. Right now I'm shooting an S&W99 .45 cal auto.


Well I melted down a ton of WW and made ingots yesterday, and today I fired up the pot to finally cast some bullets. I got the mold up to temp and my first castings were wrinkly. Fine, by the time the mold was in full swing I was turning out some nice ones. But when I went through them after casting about 60 rounds about half had small wrinkles in them. Some were no more then a little wrinkle on the side of the cone or near the lube ring. So I set them aside for remelting.


I am a novice caster and need some advice. I have read quite a bit before begining to cast and cant seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Suggestions would be welcome.

Richard


Welcome aboard, Richard.
My suggestion is to turn up the temperature of the pot. Get it hot enough that the bullets are getting frosting on them, and you should be good to go.

[Buckshot]

..........cdrCargil, welcome to the board! Always glad to have another fall into the quagmire. BTW, is that 'cdr' for Commander, as in what follows LTC?

Like Waksupi said, it's a heat issue. I like to suggest this, because it produces good boolit's from the git-go, and then you can fine tune from there. Crank the pot temp up (a full pot) as high as it will go (do you have a thermometer?) or at least 850.

Set your mould down on the top of the melt for about 15 seconds or so. You're only about 400 degrees away from where aluminum melts so be sure you have the tops of the blocks coated with graphite and ditto the underside of the sprueplate.

Pour your boolits. The sprue will remian molten for some time, so let it completely harden. Swing the sprueplate and pour another couple (or one or 6 as the case may be). This time the sprue will set up sooner. Pace your casting tempo to allow the sprue to set up in a reasonable amount of time, and continue.

At first you will get slugs that have a crystalline appearance like electroplated galvanized steel. As the blocks cool from their ride on the lead surface, the boolits will take on a frosty appearance. So long as they're frosty all over you're okay. The base may still show the crystal type look, which is fine, and it should go away and become frosty looking like the rest of the boolit.

You may then do one of 2 things. Either lower the pot temp about 25* each time while maintaining your casting tempo, or slow your casting down. If you begin to get a wrinkle, then up the temp 25* and continue, or increase your casting tempo as the blocks got too cool. I like to cast at a speed where my moves are deliberate. Not exactly leisurely, but I don't want to feel as if I'm in a race.

...............Buckshot

[Frank46]

cdr, you may wish to use brake cleaner and spray the mould cavities to get any remaining oil or lubricant from when the mould was made. This also can cause you to get wrinkled boolits. As far as casting temps what Buckshotsaid. I like frosty or the galvanized coating looks on my cast boolits. I cast about 750 degrees and the mould comes up to where I want it after about 40 or so boolits have been cast.After that I try to maintain a steady casting rate. Again your not in a race, just steady enough to maintain the frosty look. When casting that way I find that I get fewer rejects this way and the boolits are normally well filled out. Hope this helps. Frank

[Wayne Smith]

What the others said, CDR, but also, don't be afraid to shoot those wrinkled bullets. If the wrinkle isn't enough to catch on the feed ramp they should shoot OK. It's the base that matters more than the nose in shooting.

[cdrCargil]

First off, yes it's for Commander. However I am not in the Navy (that was dad) I am former Army and present (as of yesterday) VA National Gurad C co. 1st 116th Inf 29th Inf Div.

I got the handle from a book by Larry Niven about 15 years ago and have had it ever since. Same email address for 15 years, and same gaming handle for 15 years.

Ok, I have all the basics for casting but two things. A lead themometer, and a hardness tester. I am playing the temp by ear as I have a small Lee 4lb pot. I did'nt think I would need a bigger pot for me just making enough to shoot once every couple weeks.

I was wrong. The smaller pot holds to small amount of lead for melting down WW. In about an hour I can melt and clean about 6 small ingots worth of WW. But I'm not going to bitch. I am just happy that I can do it all here at the house by myself. Powder and primers is all I need to buy and that makes me happy.

So today I bought a large cast iron pot big enough for about 30 lbs of lead. I have a camp stove and will burn down the WW in that for my ingots and use the small Lee pot for bullet casting.

As far as the temp on the pot, I have been turning it up to about 6.5 on a scale of 10. Last night was my first time casting bullets but tonight I will try some more. I'll fool with the temp settings and see what happens. All last nights bullets were very shiney. No frosting at all. They look like pure silver, not like the regular bought at the gun shop bullets I've been loading.

Another question. The lube groove on the mold I have is basically like the rounds I've been loading for years. However after lubing with Lee liquid Alox, the bullets have a coat of lube all over, good. However the bullets I've always used have a blue wax lube that damn near fills the lube groove. Will this be a problem? The lube groove on my new bullets is nowhere near to filled. Just coated like the Alox instructions said.

Thanks for the welcome. I'm 35 and have been reloading my own for years, but like I said, cast my first bullets last night.

Richard

[David R]

Richard,

Welcome to the board, and mostly welcome to casting your own booits. Believe me its addictive. You surley need more heat. Put the pot on 9 and try again. Maybe even 10. You don't need a thermometer or hardness tester for a long time if ever. I don't use a thermometer, I can just tell by the color of the boolits. Shiny is too cool. You need a galvanized look. Frosted is a little hotter, but they shoot well too.

You are already on your way. One night with a 4 lb pot and you got a 30. That is what we all keep doing. The lube thing..... It should be fine, shoot some and watch for leading. It can not always be blamed on the lube, too hard or too soft of a boolit can cause leading and so can a too small boolit.

It sounds like your boolits are lubed right. With the Lee Liquid Ear Wax ( got that from some one on this board) you don't need a whole bunch.

Mostly , shoot some. pour some more. Shoot a few, see how they do. Make improvments. Shoot some more. A 45 auto can eat up a lot of boolits. You will be shooting more than ever in a while.

Have fun
David

[cdrCargil]

I am now heating up the big cast iron pot on a camp stove to make more ingots. I used up what few I had last night, so I expect to maybe get around to casting bullets later on tonight. I'll turn up the heat and see where I am at soon.

I'll post tomorrow to give me results.

[woody1]

cdr, Welcome to the wonderful world of boolits. Make sure your mould is squeeky clean, smoke your mould, run your pot hot and I'll bet your wrinkle problem goes away. Most all of my Lee moulds need to be smoked and run hot enough to make frosty boolits with WW. I basically don't use anything but WW so don't know how other alloys may work. Regards, Woody

[Vittles]

Try turning up the heat on the pot a little. Or try casting the bullets a little quicker. It sounds like you need just a little more heat in the mold. Also try shooting the wrinkled bullets, they might supprise you and shoot well. Good luck.

[versifier]

Cdr: My little Lee likes to run at about 7.5.

[shooter2]

All good advice. To recap... First, be sure the mould is clean. Scrub it in boiling water or use a brake/electrical cleaner. Second, go for frosty bullets. I run at 750 when I use the Lee 20# pot. Three, ignore the books and preheat your mould by letting it set on top of the molten alloy for a minute or so. The first few may drop with a frosty look, but not evenly all around. Drop them back in the pot and start saving when they have an overall, even, frosty appearance. Frosted bullets fill out much better and hold the lube better also.

When you can, get a bigger pot. A 20# pot keeps the temp better and you can generally cast for one session without replenishing. JMHO, but RCBS is the way to go for an electrical pot. With liquid ALOX I would coat them twice. Letting them dry overnight between coatings.

Welcome to the asylum...

[powderburnerr]

Now that you got the big pot ,heat em both up cast out of the little jasper and refill from the big pot that way your little pot will stay more consistantly hot,4 # aint much lead and 1 lb ingot is 25 % of the pot .........Dean

[Fireball 57]

Richard: We all thank you for your family's service to our country! I was an Air Force brat and Army serviceman. It is a family sacrifice. But, the advice given by the Boolit Gallery was topnotch!!! :coffeecom Way to go, Guys :Fire: Shoot them Boolits.

[versifier]

Cdr,
If the Liquid Alox lube on the loaded rounds bothers you, you can take it off easily with a rag and mineral spirits. I don't bother to as it will harden in a few days and not be a problem, though others who live where it doesn't get very cold apparently have some trouble with it. I really like the system and have very good results with it. :D Many are quite disdainful of it, and are happy with their conventional sizers. :evil: Whatever floats yer boat, you know? Pictured below are Lee C309-160R awaiting sizing/gas check seating.
The point is to have fun. As long as your bullet bases are cleanly molded, you are fat city. When you develop your own "casting rhythm" and learn to pace yourself so that you can keep the mould at its optimum temperature for a good casting run, both your confidence and bullet quality will improve by leaps and bounds. [smilie=w:
Down the road, when you begin your shooting and load development, you may want to consider the following: Like it says in Lee's book "Modern Reloading", if the bullets will go into the cases unsized without distorting the cases, you may be able to skip the sizing step altogether, but you will still have to lube them. This may also have the added advantages of better accuracy and less bore leading, depending on the relative sizes of bore and bullet. As the bullet you're using doesn't need a gas check, it may work for you. 8-)

[454PB]

One other suggestion that no one mentioned: I use all Lee equipment for casting. Yes, I own a lot of iron moulds too, but use the Lee moulds for 90% of my casting. Keep a cake pan with about 1/4" of water and a large, flat sponge in the middle. When your casting pace slows due to the mould over heating, just touch the bottom of the mould on the wet sponge for a second. This will double your casting speed, and does no harm to either the boolits or mould. Just be very careful, one minute drop of water in a molten lead pot equals an explosion of very hot metal!

[StarMetal]

It might have not been mentioned this go around, but that is old hat, BruceB even wrote a sticky on it.

Joe

[PatMarlin]

All good advice... but use younger lead. :mrgreen:

[Wayne Smith]

Richard

Get yourself a ladle and cast directly from your big cast iron pot. When it has 20 lb of lead in it there's little problem maintaining constant heat unless you're casting cannon balls!

Seriously, a big pot and a thermometer will probably help you more now than anything else.

[BruceB]

Just be very careful, one minute drop of water in a molten lead pot equals an explosion of very hot metal!

"One minute drop of water" IN THE METAL BEING ADDED TO THE POT can indeed cause a "steam explosion", and throw molten alloy all over the place.

However.... if a drop of water (sweat, beer, margaritas) falls into the pot from somewhere, it will NOT cause any harm. The droplet will just sizzle and bounce around until it evaporates. By all means, keep the water out of the sprues, if you add them back into the pot while casting, but one drop or more ON the melt will do no harm.

I tested this extensively a few years back, under carefully controlled conditions.

The speed-casting article Starmetal refers to is on the "Cast Boolit Articles" list, which can be accessed by clicking on the red print line at the top of each page here.

More speed can be obtained by cooling the TOP of the mold, meaning the sprue, than by cooling the bottom.