Alternative to Tumbling Brass

[Javelin Dan]

As a new loader, I often wondered what I would do when my brass got ugly. Well, I fired off my first hundred or so handloads, and I was surprised to find that the Bullseye powder I'm using leaves my shells a sooty mess. There were black smudges on the outside, and the insides of many looked downright nasty. Enough so, that I hesitated to reload them in their existing state. I assumed when I started all this that I would buy a tumbler and some kind of media and clean them when necessary, but I always had some place else for the money to go. As I am now on restricted hours and pay at work till March, I decided I needed to find an alternative, and I got an idea I wanted to try.

I already had part of a gallon jug of a product called "Purple Power" in the garage. In the past, I have successfully used this to degrease engines and engine bays. It is a heavy duty degreaser that is non-flamable and biodegradable (can be poured down the drain) and is available in places like Auto Zone, Advance Auto, and even Dollar General. It usually sells for between $3.00 - $4.00 per gallon. Safety note: this stuff is still very caustic (probably highly alkaline) and rubber gloves and protective eye wear are a must.

I first de-primed all my shells, then pirated one of my wife's 2 quart Rubbermaid food storage containers. I'll catch hell next time there's leftover meatloaf to freeze. I put the shells in the container getting as many as possible to lay down, then poured roughly a 16-24 oz. of the Purple Power in the container over top of the shells and let them soak on my work bench for 24 hours. I then fished them out wearing the rubber gloves (I may look into a kitty litter scoop for this) and put them into a bucket of clean water to rinse, then spread them out on a folded towel to dry overnight.

Results? Pretty darned good! I had bought some used brass that had been tumbled and they arrived looking like gold. These aren't quite that good, but pretty dag-on close! Both the insides and the outsides of the cases are VERY clean. Some of the primer pockets still have a small amount of crud in them, but I've already adopted the habit of examining each one and using a small bore wire brush on a cordless drill where necessary. The remaining Purple Power is clear as a bell with only a small amount of sediment at the bottom. I intend to just snap the lid on and store it until needed again, and expect to be able to reuse it many times before I flush it down the sink.

My wife is a seamstress and made me aware of plastic trays with multiple upright plastic spikes to store spools of thread on. I may go to JoAnn Fabrics and look for enough to rack a hundred shells on to dry. Is this as good as tumbling them? Not quite, but almost, and a heck of a lot cheaper! Even in the batch of tumbled shells I loaded, I found a few with dirty primer pockets so that would be an on-going issue in any case. Try it and see for yourself!

[Love Life]

Get some cheap citric acid, add dawn and hot water.

[runfiverun]

you might want to add a rinse in hot water to the system.
laying them on a towel in front of a fan or just in the sun will dry them pretty quick too.

I was just using an old plastic mayonnaise container, some lemon juice mixed with water and shook the whole thing by hand, then rinsed and dried.
the citric acid cleans the brass pretty well and costs almost nothing [kool-aid has it too lemon-lime works well but stains the fingers]

since then I found that lemi-shine for cleaning dish-washers is like 7 bucks a container and it's 96-98% citric acid, a small teaspoon full in a gallon of hot water is plenty to do a couple of hundred cases.

[leftiye]

I haven't started up my tumbler in twenty years. That was only for reconditioning some mil surplus 5.56 brass. I've cleaned up some green .45 LC that was left in a leather belt with 0000 steel wool. That's an alternative. Ultrasonic cleaner? I use that on antique pocket watches.

[bedbugbilly]

I de-prime my brass and then toss it in a plastic bucket with hot water, a little detergent and some powdered citric acid. I let it set for about 10 minutes then stir it all up with a wood dowel . . let set another ten minutes or so then stir again - repeat several more times then drain by pouring the brass in to a colander. Rinse the bucket out and fill with clear hot water - toss the brass in and stir it around to get it all moving and then dump in the colander again - rinse under hot water and then lay out on a counter top in the basement on top of an old bath towel. After a day or so, it's dry and nice and clean. It doesn't give it the high gloss shine but all I'm concerned with is getting the powder soot, etc. off of it from 2 or 3 firings. I think a bottle of the citric acid was about $3 to $4 dollars - wife picked it up when grocery shopping. Works great!

[GhostHawk]

I simply use an ice cream bucket, a deep fat fryer basket for rinse, fruit fresh, dawn dish soap, and very hot water. After they are clean I do like to grab a nice clean cotton towel, and half a dozen q-tips and clean the primer pockets. With the towel laid on my leg, q-tip in the primer pocket my left hand rolls it down my leg.

I know I'm probably slightly OCD/fussy.

[runfiverun]

nope if you were OCD you'd have a stainless pin tumbler, a smaller one for smaller batches, and 3 dry system tumblers for different parts of the process.

not sayin anybody needs all that, but sometimes brass needs to be squeaky clean and shiny, with a nice coat of protective wax to keep them that way.

[Blackwater]

Ah yes! I remember back when I started reloading, and it seemed I was always a few dollars short of what I needed. One learns to improvise in those conditions, or either do without, which is a poor choice for sure. The main thing isn't the discoloration on the cases, but the fact that they're clean and dirt/sand free. I learned early on to deprime and just wash them out with whatever soap and/or detergent I had handy, and then let them air dry while I studied. Was in college then. Next day, I took the now clean and dry cases and loaded them up.

Getting them clean mostly just ensures that no grit on them will scratch the loading dies, but they feed and function quite well even when they're something less than shiny and bright. Shoot just as good, too. Shiny with grit is nowhere NEAR as good as plain but grit free. You won't have to buy many extra dies to realize that, and the wet cleaning does better than anything I've ever used before. Many use it for shotshells, too, which get pretty gritty inside after firing. Getting them shiny is just for our delicate sensibilities, and not really necessary. I like mine shiny too.

[mdi]

I think you'd find that shiny brass doesn't shoot or function any better than brown brass. I reloaded for 12 years before I started tumbling brass, I just wiped each case with a solvent dampened rag as I inspected it before processing (BTW, soot on the exterior of the cases is an indicator of pretty light loads, not enough pressure to completely seal the case/chamber). All my ammo (predominately .44 Magnum and .357 Magnum) shot very well and I got some pretty accurate loads in my .44 Dan Wesson). Nope, I never ruined a die, and yes I could spot any defects in the cases. I have nearly always gone shooting alone, I'm the only one to see/shoot my reloads and I didn't need to impress anyone at the range. I'm more concerned with the results/performance of my reloads than shiny, virgin looking brass. Not saying high polished brass is a bad thing, just not my style. I've tried wet tumbling and the results weren't worth the extra hassle with mixing, tumbling, rinsing, and drying. I'm not anti-tumbling, it just seems to me to be the most talked about but least important part of reloading, and new reloaders are led to believe that tumbling and shiny brass is essential, a necessary part of reloading...

I tend to direct my replies at new/newer reloaders because most that have much experience will either be set in their ways, reloading methods, and understand the important areas to not deviate from (anything concerning safety) and what's just "extra" and just "feel good" personal preferences...

[farmerjim]

I reloaded my first 10 years without cleaning any brass other than water to get the mud off of old range pickup.
I have a tumbler now, but recently tried citric acid. It works fast and good. I have an ultrasonic cleaner that I use for parts, and found that it speeds up the process. Dry at 200 in my convection oven that is used for Hi-tek and powder coating. Now just a 5 min in the tumbler with walnut shells and a dab of nu finish.
The MSDS for purple power says do not contact with reactive metals, and do not store in copper.

[gwpercle]

Put you cases in a small mesh bag, wash with your clothes, don't let wife catch you.
They will be clean. If you want shiney brass, then they need some polishing.
I use treated walnut polishing media in the vibrating polisher . The tumbler will work with it also.
I just like the clear lid on the Frankford Arsenal unit. Easier to check progress than my Thumbler Tumbler.
Gary

[mozeppa]

nope if you were ocd you'd have a stainless pin tumbler, a smaller one for smaller batches, and 3 dry system tumblers for different parts of the process.

Not sayin anybody needs all that, but sometimes brass needs to be squeaky clean and shiny, with a nice coat of protective wax to keep them that way.

you been in my room ain't cha!

[John Boy]

My wife is a seamstress and made me aware of plastic trays with multiple upright plastic spikes to store spools of thread on. I may go to JoAnn Fabrics and look for enough to rack a hundred shells on to dry
Dan, you are wasting your time and money drying wet cases. I dry mine in 2 minutes or less and have been for years:
How to Dry Wet Brass in Under 2 Minutes! (http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=7653.msg56060#msg56060)

[opos]

Don't know where I read or heard it but many of the cleaners like simple green, the purple stuff, the orange stuff, etc have chemicals and possibly some ammonia in them and can cause some brass problems....the citric acid "soup" is something that's been around for a very long time...works quick and well and actually passivates the brass to keep it from tarnishing down the road...cheap on e bay and in many stores...I use the plastic folgers coffee buckets....a spoonful of citric acid powder...a shot of liquid dish soap to help emulsify the whole mess and fill with really hot water..in goes the brass (I decap with a Lee universal decap die first)...stir with a wooden spoon for a few minutes..let it all soak for about 20 minutes (you just can't go to long as it won't hurt anything--when it's done it's work it just stops doing anything) and then rinse and rinse again with really hot water....I sun dry the brass on a couple of 2x4's that have nails driven in them that I can put the brass on, neck down..don't trust the oven method but that's just me...if I want shine I toss it all in the tumbler for an hour after its all dry.

[Javelin Dan]

Great stuff and thanks to all. I'll have to try to find some citric acid again. I've seen LemiShine at WalMart or Target or maybe both. I say "try again" because years ago My wife and I owned a small cleaning franchise that included carpet and upholstery cleaning. We used citric acid to reverse or retard browning in natural fibers caused by severe alkaline reactions. I could get it in a 1 lb. jar from my area manager, but he only showed once a month. So I started looking for it locally. Searched high and low and finally found a compounding pharmacist that would order it for me in 16 oz. bottles. Was expensive too, as I recall. There's a couple of janitorial supply stores that have set up shop in town since then, guess I could start there. I know that price and availability of any product can vary due to location. If anyone has specific ideas on where to find it, let me know.(BTW, I live in north east Ohio). Just a meaningless piece of trivia: did you know that most of the commercially available citric acid comes from corn not citrus fruit? Stands to reason - smells like butt, not oranges.

[Love Life]

Diesel labs sells 5 lb bags of food grade citric acid. That's where mine came from.

[mongoose33]

you might want to add a rinse in hot water to the system.
laying them on a towel in front of a fan or just in the sun will dry them pretty quick too.

I was just using an old plastic mayonnaise container, some lemon juice mixed with water and shook the whole thing by hand, then rinsed and dried.
the citric acid cleans the brass pretty well and costs almost nothing [kool-aid has it too lemon-lime works well but stains the fingers]

since then I found that lemi-shine for cleaning dish-washers is like 7 bucks a container and it's 96-98% citric acid, a small teaspoon full in a gallon of hot water is plenty to do a couple of hundred cases.

While I use wet tumbling w/ stainless steel pins (mostly to keep the dust down, plus I love how the brass looks when it's done), I always rinse in softened water, and dry the outsides of the brass on a big bath towel.

I don't want water spots on my brass--not because I'm overly anal in how it looks, but rather, I believe that over time those minerals will wear the sizing die more than just clean brass.

I do let the brass dry the rest of the way, but I want the outsides to be clean as possible, and no water spots.

[runfiverun]

citric acid is used in many of the newer water softener systems.
I opted for the old school type that uses salt to make the minerals dissolve in the water, but would have been happy enough with the cartridge type that uses the citric acid.

[dolfinwriter]

I read something some time ago written by a guy who had recovered some buried brass that was very dirty and some green. He used Simple Green to clean them and then tumbled and go them very shiny and they reloaded well. He used this same method on another batch that he left too long in the Simple Green, and all of the brass turned green (verdigris).

Moral of the story was that Simple Green worked well to clean the worst off of some recovered range brass, but don't leave it in there too long.

[dudel]

Great stuff and thanks to all. I'll have to try to find some citric acid again..

Go to Walmart, to the canning supplies. A jar of Ball's Citric Acid powder will set you back $3. I'm sure it's out there for less; but there's a limit to how much gas I'll use to save a buck.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I couldn't afford a tumbler when I first started reloading either. I used an old Terry towell to wipe them off for several years. When I finally was able to get a vibrator tumbler ( a Lyman ) I thought I had gone to heaven, nice clean brass but never super shiny no need for it. As for clean primer pockets, I probably haven't cleaned more than a hundred of them. If I can see through the hole I loadem. I have never had a primer that would not seat because of a dirty primer pocket. I have used up several hundred pounds of Unique and Bullseye yes they are dirty powders but never so dirty that even if all I did was wipe them off they would still resize load and shoot just fine.

[trixter]

I love cashews, so I buy them at Costco and save the jars for boolit storage. (They are not dishwasher safe!). I heard about this 'lemishine' stuff and decided ti give it a try on some really stained brass a friend gave me. I filled one of the jars about 1/2 full with faucet hot water, and dumped in about 2 tablespoons of lemishine, and agitated it well, then I dumped in the brass (about 200 pieces 45ACP) and shook the dickens out of it for about a minute, let stand and did the shake rattle and roll a couple of more times, then I poured out the liquid and ran hot water to stop the action and rinse, then dumped into a colander and shook to drain, then onto a towel and out into the sun for a whole day. The results were as expected, bright shiny brass.
Normally I just toss them in the tumbler with some strips of dryer sheet, and tighten the lid and plug it in and let them go overnight in the grage and deal with them in the morning. Much easier and a lot less work for me, more time for shooting.

[williamwaco]

Diesel labs sells 5 lb bags of food grade citric acid. That's where mine came from.

i buy mine at a local wine and beer brewers shop.

[Tailhunter]

nope if you were OCD you'd have a stainless pin tumbler, a smaller one for smaller batches, and 3 dry system tumblers for different parts of the process.

not sayin anybody needs all that, but sometimes brass needs to be squeaky clean and shiny, with a nice coat of protective wax to keep them that way.
Ah, so you have been in my reloading room. ;)

[gwpercle]

The case drier that Midway now sells for people who wet tumble , looks just like the food dehydrator I use to make beef jerky with...... It's two, two , two machines in one. Case drier and jerky maker....that's the ticket .

[Javelin Dan]

Walmart it is! Thanks.

[LenH]

Tried the Lemi-Shine for the first time last night. I put a teaspoon in a gallon of hot water with a drop or two of Dawn. I added approx. 150 .45 Colt brass
and stirred the brass with a piece of dowel. I let it set for about an hour and that seemed clean them real good. I reloaded the bucket with the Lemi-Shine,
Dawn & hot water & repeated the whole process, I forgot about them due to CRS (can't remember squat) and dumped the bucket in the sink. The second step
was unnecessary because the first cleaning was all that was necessary.


I think the Lemi-Shine worked better than Lemon juice that I tried before. I am just starting to experiment with the whole idea with citric acid.

[Javelin Dan]

I commissioned my wife to look for either LemiShine or citric acid, whichever she found first. She came home with the Lemishine. She's not sure, but thinks she paid about $4.99 for a 16 oz. bottle at Target. A few days latter we were in a "Do it Best" hardware store and saw a 16 oz. bottle of citric acid in the canning supplies for $5.99, so right around 5 bucks seems to be the magic number around here. I used the LemiShine for the first time last night along with a couple of squirts of detergent. The results were good and very much acceptable though I gotta say, I was a little more impressed with the results from the Purple Power; especially in the area of cleaning the primer pockets. However, I will defer to the advice of others that it may react with the brass and weaken it. Ah, such is life, a constant series of compromises...

[dougader]

Guys, there are 37 pages on cleaning with citric acid here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?83572-Citric-acid-brass-cleaner

[Javelin Dan]

Actually dougader, I started this as a thread on Purple Power and it just morphed into a testimony on citric acid. Sorry for the duplication.

[bangerjim]

Clean it how you want. I just wipe off any gunk with a rag quickly and reload. My "dirty" brass shoots just as well as the shiny new stuff I have!

To dry anything I do dope with citric and water.........Olde Sol is my friend. Just put the wet cases on an old oven drip pan in the AZ sun (after a good rinse in water) for about an hour and they are so hot you will burn yourself! Free heat for drying. No hair dryiers, no ovens, no food dehydrators needed.

banger

[dougader]

Actually dougader, I started this as a thread on Purple Power and it just morphed into a testimony on citric acid. Sorry for the duplication.

No complaint. Just trying to help. 8-)

[Stewbaby]

I need it shiny so I can find it in the grass!

[Grump]

The case drier that Midway now sells for people who wet tumble , looks just like the food dehydrator I use to make beef jerky with...... It's two, two , two machines in one. Case drier and jerky maker....that's the ticket .

Can that machine make a dessert topping too? That doubles as a floor polish???