Success with 224 cast bullets?

[andym79]

Hi guys, I just wondered if people could tell me about success or failure with 22 cal cast bullets. So far I have got cast from 25cal upward to shot to a point that give the massive cost saving I am happy with performance compared to jacketed projectiles.

I have a 223 9" twist and have tried cast accuracy was mediocre, but then I didn't spend much time on load development.

I am asking because I am considering another project re-barrelling one of my WIN 94s to 219 zipper or 25-35W.

Whilst I know I can use jacketed ammo in the 219 zipper I don't know how well it might be able to shot lead, especially as it seems spitzer type 22cal moulds don't seem to exist, only the rn or flat nose type. Not all ammo in a 94 needs to be fed through the action after all the rifle can be used as a single shot if you like.

Assuming I went with the 219 Zipper with the option to go jacket or cast, I will be able to specify barrel twist; is 1:10" a good choice, I figured 1:12" would be more cast friendly, but a 1:12 will limit stabilising ability to 60 grains at most.

I know that with the 25-35, 25 cal bullet moulds are much more diverse. Likewise if I went for the 25-35 would a 1:10" be the best choice there? I figured at lower velocity a 1:12" would top out at 90/100 grainer were as a 1:10 would let me stabilise a 125 grainer at low cast velocity.

I guess I am asking how much success have guys had with 22cal versus 25cal cast and is 1:10 the best twist for 22cal 40-70 grain and 25cal 70-125 grain

[gloob]

I shoot 55 grain 223 cast in a 1:8 twist. Gas checked. They group pretty good* out to 100 yards, with a variety of powders as fast as Unique and as slow as H335. I don't know what happens beyond 100. I use half lino and half ww for this bullet. They shoot great out of my 1:12 rifle, too.

[Larry Gibson]

but a 1:12 will limit stabilising ability to 60 grains at most.

The stability for a given caliber is based on the length of the bullet, not the weight. My 225462 Loverin Lyman bullet is .620 in length. For full stabilization (Miller formula) 2000 fps is needed with a 14" twist and the same bullet in a 12" twist requires only 800 fps for full stabilization. I have used that bullet in numerous 14" twist .22 Hornets, .222 Rems and .223 Rems at HV (2400 - 2500+ fps) with excellent accuracy.

My MP 27-65 is .700" in length and requires 2200 fps in a 12" twist for full stabilization, 1300 fps with an 11" twist and only 400 fps with a 9" twist.


FYI the M193 55 gr FMJBT at .652" length is fully stabilized at 1200 fps in a 12" twist but requires 3000 fps in a 14" twist.

Larry Gibson

[andym79]

Yes it is length not weight, but the two correlate.

I guess what I am asking is:

1) Has anyone had success shooting cast in the 219 zipper?
2) Regardless of if I pick the 219 or the 25-35 what the best twist rate?

Question 2) comes down to do I want to be able to use various size cast bullets at low velocity even down to 1050 fps or do I referring to your RPM threshold table (insert below) Larry; want to be able to shoot cast in the realm of HV 2000+ fps.

If its the former then a 1:10" might be the safest bet, if I want a bit of both well the 1:12" though only the small slugs could be shot slow or if I want to drive the cast as fast as I can a 1:14" or if you are game to try (I am not game or going for 2700fps with lead) then a 1:16"

The biggest an most important point in all of this of course is accuracy. As I discovered with my 6.5x55, 1800 was as fast as it would go, due to that fast twist without accuracy heading south.

The point I am trying to get at is,which twist and size projectile is likely to give me the best accuracy in the velocity range that I am looking at? The velocity range is probably 1000-1800 fps so which twist will deliver good accuracy in projectiles from .450" - .650" long? Answer 1:10 or 1:12.

So the absolute real question with regard to the Zipper is does anyone shoot cast bullets in a zipper in those size and velocity ranges and do you get good accuracy?

RPM……….120,000……….140,000

Twist……….FPS…………..FPS

7”…………1166…………..1361

8”………….1333…………..1555

9”………….1500…………..1750

10”………...1666…………..1944

11”………...1833…………..2139

12”…………2000………….2333

14”…………2333………….2722

16”…………2666………….3111

18”………….3000…………3500

[runfiverun]

I ignore twist rates and just shoot boolits in my rifles.

the 223 is one of my better calibers as far as success with them at higher velocity's go.
the ruger has a twist rate, the stags both have sumthin else and the armalite is different too [I think] but they all shoot the same load just fine.
each rifle will shoot them on par with jacketed ammo.
maybe I'm just a lucky idiot and it's all beginners luck [shrug]

[Larry Gibson]

andym79

I guess what I am asking is:

1)Has anyone had success shooting cast in the 219 zipper?

It doesn't make any difference, in most instances, what the actual cartridge is regarding the RPM Threshold. The 219 Zipper will be similar in performance given the same twist of the barrel as compared to the .223 through 22-250 size cartridges of .224 caliber. However, anyone with actual experience with the 219 Zipper may be able to provide some decent load data.

2)Regardless of if I pick the 219 or the 25-35 what the best twist rate?

Question2) comes down to do I want to be able to use various size cast bullets at lowvelocity even down to 1050 fps or do I referring to your RPM threshold table(insert below) Larry; want to be able to shoot cast in the realm of HV 2000+fps.


If its the former then a 1:10" might be the safest bet, if I want a bit of both well the 1:12" though only the small slugs could be shot slow or if I want to drive the cast as fast as I can a 1:14" or if you are game to try(I am not game or going for 2700fps with lead) then a 1:16"

Regarding the velocity range you mention (1050 – 2000+ fps many of the original 22 CFs all had 14” twists and handle a wide variety of cast bullets from 37 gr upwards of 60 gr well within your desired velocity spectrum.

Regarding the 25-35 I believe the 14” twist was standard with that cartridge. Unless bullets over 100 gr are used that twist has been time proven sufficient but if you desire heavier bullets the 12” twist would probably be the best choice. My 25-20 has a 14” twist and I shoot an 86 gr cast bullet down at 1050 fps and a 65 gr cast at 1950 fps, both with excellent accuracy.

The biggest an most important point in all of this of course is accuracy. As I discovered with my 6.5x55, 1800 was as fast as it would go, due to that fasttwist without accuracy heading south.

The point I am trying to get at is, which twist and size projectile is likely to give me the best accuracy in the velocity range that I am looking at? The velocity range is probably 1000-1800 fps so which twist will deliver good accuracy in projectiles from .450" - .650" long? Answer 1:10 or 1:12.[/I]

The 12”twist is the best choice.

Larry Gibson