Anybody use Lee C429-240-SWC in .44mag?

[rondog]

I recently bought this mold.... http://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-c429-240-swc.html

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/ammo%20and%20reloading/90338.jpg

Makes great bullets, but I need some load recipes/tips. Want to use this in my Winchester rifle, so I tried one test round at max load of 24 gr of IMR4227, according to my Lyman manual. This was so full, and had to be compressed so much, that the bullet seating plug mashed the bullet ogive completely round. Wasn't a SWC anymore!

Yeah, ain't gonna shoot that one. Knocked the bullet out, but the gas check is still in the case, crammed down on the powder charge, and ain't interested in coming out. It's a souvenir now.

Tried lighter charges of 4227 at 22gr and 21gr, both of those bullets also had the ogives deformed by the seating plug and the pressure to compress the powder. Hesitant to shoot those too, got 'em set aside.

Looks like I need a different seating plug from Lee.

What I'm asking for is any recipes for this bullet in .44 mag for rifles, that are safe and proven. I prefer 4227 because I have plenty, but I do have some H110 and Win296 too, but not much. I'm trying to find a cast load that this Winchester likes.

Oh, these are supposed to be 240gr., but with the gas check they weigh around 253gr. (!)

[Tatume]

In my Ruger Super Redhawk and T/C Contender I run 240 grain bullets with more IMR 4227 than that! I'm using SSP data from the Sierra manual and loading the cartridges 0.2" longer than spec. You may not have the option of seating your bullets out to make more room for powder.

Also, I use a flat seating stem. It doesn't deform the bullets like a concave stem will.

[rondog]

Lee said they could make me a new seating plug for $8 plus shipping. No idea how long a COAL I can use in my Winchester though. Interesting thought, thanks! I tend to think only of the COAL listed in the books.

[Guesser]

I use that bullet in a 10" Contender and a Taurus Tracker. Good bullet.

[DougGuy]

You do need a flat seating plug for the Keith type LSWC and also for the RF boolit style as well but man, to be honest if you have to seat firmly enough to deform the nose of the boolit that bad, something is very wrong. That just rings of red flags.

May I suggest using a different powder? 2400, H110, W296, AA#9, LilGun, or other slow burning magnum pistol powder.

[tazman]

If you want to get the gas check out f the case, take a small diameter punch and push one side of the check(hammer if needed) down into the case. This will turn it so the other edge is up and you can get at it with a pair of needle nose pliers to pull it out. (Don't ask me how I know this works)

[44man]

You do need a flat seating plug for the Keith type LSWC and also for the RF boolit style as well but man, to be honest if you have to seat firmly enough to deform the nose of the boolit that bad, something is very wrong. That just rings of red flags.

May I suggest using a different powder? 2400, H110, W296, AA#9, LilGun, or other slow burning magnum pistol powder.
I fall here, your lead is way too soft for that heavy a load anyway.
If you squash a boolit seating, imagine the pressure impact on it.

[rondog]

You may be onto something about the hardness. I'm no metallurgist, and have no way to test hardness or alloy mix. I just melt wheel weights, pour into bars and store them, then use later.

I do have some soft lead bars made from some big weights, I hope I didn't use those by mistake.

I'm the kind of guy that should BUY my alloy from Rotometals, so I have a prayer of knowing what it may be. Lead just looks like lead to me. And mixing in tin and antimony and whatever else? Forget it..... I'm clueless.

[rondog]

If you want to get the gas check out f the case, take a small diameter punch and push one side of the check(hammer if needed) down into the case. This will turn it so the other edge is up and you can get at it with a pair of needle nose pliers to pull it out. (Don't ask me how I know this works)
I've thought of that, and will go that route. Although my "inner redneck" wants to just put it in my rifle and fire it down into the yard. The redneck must be suppressed.

<edit> That worked very well tazman, thank you!

[dead dog]

I use that boolit with hardball alloy h110 2500 lube. Get 3 inch groups at 100 yards in my pack rifle with peep sight.

[rondog]

I use that boolit with hardball alloy h110 2500 lube. Get 3 inch groups at 100 yards in my pack rifle with peep sight.
How much 110 you stuffin' in there?

[gwpercle]

Lee said they could make me a new seating plug for $8 plus shipping. No idea how long a COAL I can use in my Winchester though. Interesting thought, thanks! I tend to think only of the COAL listed in the books.

Modify the one you have with a small ball of epoxy putty. Clean the plug and push the ball of epoxy into the nose. You can fit the boolit to the nose by pressing it in or just fill the plug, let set and sand flat. After it cures you can seat any bullet with a flat nose.

Gary

[iraiam]

I use that boolit almost exclusively in 44 magnum revolver and carbine, cast with Lyman #2 alloy. I use H110 powder for both, recipes are listed in the "Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook". I also have some loaded with surplus WC-820, but I was on my own with that load development.

[rondog]

Modify the one you have with a small ball of epoxy putty. Clean the plug and push the ball of epoxy into the nose. You can fit the boolit to the nose by pressing it in or just fill the plug, let set and sand flat. After it cures you can seat any bullet with a flat nose.

Gary

Hmm, good idea! I have lots of JB Weld.

[rondog]

I use that boolit almost exclusively in 44 magnum revolver and carbine, cast with Lyman #2 alloy. I use H110 powder for both, recipes are listed in the "Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook". I also have some loaded with surplus WC-820, but I was on my own with that load development.

Man, I have that book somewhere around this dump......

[old beekeeper]

I shoot this bullet out of my Marlin 1894, cast from wheelweights, air cooled and lubed with Alox. With 19-20 grains of Lil Gun they shoot into one hole at 50 yards. I don't shoot a lot of them because I shoot mostly paper, cans, bottles etc. and by shooting 200 grain loads I save on powder and lead. However, This is my hunting load and it has served me well. Nothing fancy and for some reason, I have never thought to crono them because they shoot so good, who cares. If I could see out to 100 yds, I am sure they would do well, but my 77year old eyes are not what they used to be and trying to keep that front bead on a 100 yd target is not an easy feat at my age. And for me, a scope on a Marlin seems like blasphemy, maybe it wil get so bad on day I may have to do it. I think you will like what the Lil Gun does. I have 110 and it works as well but seems to be a bit hotter than the Lil Gun. Good shooting.

Beekeeper

[dead dog]

24 grains lapped my sizer to .433 water drop seemed to help some.

[murf205]

rondog, that boolit is my favorite in a S&W 24 classic 6 1/2 with Skeeters load of 7.5 grs of Unique. Plenty of punch from a 44 spl at around 950-1000fps and very comfortable to shoot out of an N frame Smith or any other 44 for that matter. It is the best shooter out of my 44 Hand Ejector (1929) and the new model 24 and is a close second to a 429421 Lyman out if my 4" 629. It will makem all touch out of my 9" SRH Ruger , but it thinks its a rifle with anything I stuff in it. Lee made a good one with that mold. It has a great crimp groove to boot. Now if they would only "deepen" the crimp groove on their 300 gr 45 boolit maybe I could shoot it in a 454 Cassull without jumping crimp.

[JohnH]

I'm just gonna ask a silly question... To just what COAL are you seating that and is it a COAL that is at all similar to other boolits of that style? The classic Keith boolit which that is NOT is loaded to an overall length of 1.710. This is right at 1/16" longer than a "standard" length of 1.650. What one must remember is that the Keith boolit (Lyman 429421) was originally designed to maximize case capacity of a 44 Special case in S&W "N" frame revolvers (they were not called "N" frames in those days) Loaded in a magnum case, one gets an OAL of 1,710 which is just about all the length most 44 revolvers will handle and many carbine users report troubles with the nose hanging up on feeding. I'd suggest that you look into the COAL of the data you are trying to use, seat a boolit in an empty case to the crimp groove, measure that and adjust the load accordingly. All 44 SWC are not created equal and can leave more boolit in the case than a particular load was designed for. The Keith design leaves about half or a tad over of the boolits length hanging out of the case. The picture you ost of the boolit you are using does not appear to do this. That boolit looks nothing like the Keith design. I believe you will find you need to reduce that charge, and I believe you will find it has a shorter COAL, more in line with 1.60-1.65 or so. The only way to know for sure is to seat one in an empty case and measure. Good Shootin'

[rondog]

I'm just gonna ask a silly question... To just what COAL are you seating that and is it a COAL that is at all similar to other boolits of that style? The classic Keith boolit which that is NOT is loaded to an overall length of 1.710. This is right at 1/16" longer than a "standard" length of 1.650. What one must remember is that the Keith boolit (Lyman 429421) was originally designed to maximize case capacity of a 44 Special case in S&W "N" frame revolvers (they were not called "N" frames in those days) Loaded in a magnum case, one gets an OAL of 1,710 which is just about all the length most 44 revolvers will handle and many carbine users report troubles with the nose hanging up on feeding. I'd suggest that you look into the COAL of the data you are trying to use, seat a boolit in an empty case to the crimp groove, measure that and adjust the load accordingly. All 44 SWC are not created equal and can leave more boolit in the case than a particular load was designed for. The Keith design leaves about half or a tad over of the boolits length hanging out of the case. The picture you ost of the boolit you are using does not appear to do this. That boolit looks nothing like the Keith design. I believe you will find you need to reduce that charge, and I believe you will find it has a shorter COAL, more in line with 1.60-1.65 or so. The only way to know for sure is to seat one in an empty case and measure. Good Shootin'

Mine are right at 1.60, which is a good .125" below the cylinder face of my Dragoon. My primary desire is to get these to work in my Winchester Trapper. I've only loaded up about 20 rounds of different charges, and haven't fired any of them, so I can break them down and start over if I need to.

[mac266]

I use that bullet in a 5" S&W model 629. I have three loads for it. In .44 magnum brass, my kill-anything-in-front-of-me load is over 11.5 grains of Unique. My let's-shoot-all-day load is over 9 grains of Unique.

I have one more load in .44 Special brass, but it escapes me at the moment.

[rondog]

So, I have 18 test rounds made up for my rifle. OAL is 1.60. Using H110, 6@22.5gr, 6@23, & 6@23.5. I haven't fired any yet.

Thoughts? Too much H110 or seated too deep? I'd much rather pull them apart now than find out the hard way. I was just using a book recipe and seating to the crimp groove. Not looking to make bear killers, just accurate target loads for my rifle.

[slohunter]

Been using this mold since the 80's with approx 18 grains of 2400. No problem.

[Win94ae]

So, I have 18 test rounds made up for my rifle. OAL is 1.60. Using H110, 6@22.5gr, 6@23, & 6@23.5. I haven't fired any yet.

Thoughts? Too much H110 or seated too deep? I'd much rather pull them apart now than find out the hard way. I was just using a book recipe and seating to the crimp groove. Not looking to make bear killers, just accurate target loads for my rifle.

The 44mag load I use for my Marlin 1894 S and Ruger Super Blackhawk use that bullet and H110 in those amounts.
Good luck.

[rondog]

Went and shot the 6 rounds with 22.5 of H110 today, and they seemed bodaciously hot. Really hammered me, flat primers too. Think I'm gonna pull the others down and start over.

[redgum]

Interesting Thread, I am using the same LEE 240g GC-LSWC with Nobels No.1 Revolver (similar to 296, h110 etc).... even at 20.0gns they are sharp in my Redhawk. so much so that the hammer link hook has bounced off the pin on the spring driven lever
This boolit does seat deeper in the case than most, I think I might have to pull them and reduce the load further ?
http://s141.photobucket.com/user/redgum94/media/44_zpsg7e6verc.jpg.html

[nitro-express]

I realize this is an old thread, but I've been working with this same bullet and I think i can shed some light on this issue.

First, I'm glad you could get nice bullets out of your mold, I have about a 50% rejection rate and have had to use some pretty hot lead to get even that. The bullets I selected do look nice and I size with a 430 sizer. It mostly just touches the shank, no sizing other than for the gas check.

This bullet has a very minimalistic nose and a rather long shank, compared to a 429421 Lyman Keith. In fact, with the LEE bullet seated in a W-W Magnum case, the internal volume is just about the same as for a 429421 seated in a Starline 44 Spl case.

Any data you use, first compare it to 44 Spl data first.

I worked out a near 900 fps load with Tin Star powder. This bullet runs clean even in my slightly larger bore/groove. It will feed through a lever gun as the OAL is under 1.6". You have to load the 429421 in a 44 Spl case to be able to feed it in a lever gun.

Thanks, and sorry if resurrecting this old a thread offends you.

Nitro




I recently bought this mold.... http://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-c429-240-swc.html

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/ammo%20and%20reloading/90338.jpg

Makes great bullets, but I need some load recipes/tips. Want to use this in my Winchester rifle, so I tried one test round at max load of 24 gr of IMR4227, according to my Lyman manual. This was so full, and had to be compressed so much, that the bullet seating plug mashed the bullet ogive completely round. Wasn't a SWC anymore!

Yeah, ain't gonna shoot that one. Knocked the bullet out, but the gas check is still in the case, crammed down on the powder charge, and ain't interested in coming out. It's a souvenir now.

Tried lighter charges of 4227 at 22gr and 21gr, both of those bullets also had the ogives deformed by the seating plug and the pressure to compress the powder. Hesitant to shoot those too, got 'em set aside.

Looks like I need a different seating plug from Lee.

What I'm asking for is any recipes for this bullet in .44 mag for rifles, that are safe and proven. I prefer 4227 because I have plenty, but I do have some H110 and Win296 too, but not much. I'm trying to find a cast load that this Winchester likes.

Oh, these are supposed to be 240gr., but with the gas check they weigh around 253gr. (!)

[gwpercle]

Went and shot the 6 rounds with 22.5 of H110 today, and they seemed bodaciously hot. Really hammered me, flat primers too. Think I'm gonna pull the others down and start over.

Don't forget the old reloading adage ... Start Low and work up slowly .
Flat primers may be a warning ... sticky extraction , Yes ... that's a sure sign .

[TurnipEaterDown]

30 Years ago (when I knew a lot less...) I cast the Lee 240 HP GC out of wheel weight, loaded over 24 gr of W296, and shot in a 1894 Marlin. Primer failed, case head blackened, and (if my memory is good, as I didn't keep the record) 1880 fps velocity. 24gr W296 far too much w/ the LEE 240 as it protrudes too far into the case. Just because it weighs 240 gr doesn't mean that you can pick any 240 gr data and load it up, nor should word of mouth historical data (44 Mag, 240 LSC, 24 of 296) be used...