The Great Rat Zapping Safari and other Wonderments, like:

[Buckshot]

...............What moron named this town Paradise, or was it better once? What do people do here when not chasing cows? How do crows know to stay 100 yards beyond the longest ranged rifle in the battery?

Pictures and story to follow tomorrow evening of the Great Ground Squirrel Massacree of April 2008 in Paradise, NV.

No pictures and story tonight as I'm whipped. Also 9.3x62AL threw me and all my stuff out in front of my house, and then drove off unceremoniously with my camera in the glove box.

...............BruceB had been talking about the possibility of having a rat strafing safari if he could line up a suitable place that wasn't too far from his digs in Winnemucca, NV. I think his wife Karen may also have had something to do with our being able to have the use of 2 adjoining cattle ranches, as it turned out to be. These were located in Paradise Valley, NV which was about 40 miles north of Winnemucca, NV so it worked out well. The date was figured out and set. 9.3x62AL picked me up Thursday 0515 and we were off. Next stop was to pick up NVCurmudgeon in Pleasant Valley, NV which is a bit south of Reno, NV. Ammohead was to join us Friday evening after getting off work at NAS Fallon, NV.

With NVCurmudgeon piloting we successfully skirted around the downtown Reno area and were soon Eastbound on I-80 headed for Winnemucca. We passed through a lot of beautifull country on the way to NVCurmugeons but scenery photo's can get a bit tiring so I resisted. We arrived in Winnemucca and headed to BruceB & Karen's place. Karen was slaving away in the kitchen preparing a huge cassarole dish of some shrimp and pasta type cheesy lasagna stuff. While she worked, we drank beer and BS'd. We saw BruceB's new (to him) 50's vintage Marlin 336 in 35 Rem and a couple nifty things he hauled out. After the dinner of lasagna, salad, bread, and a good red wine we talked a bit more, then adjourned to the Santa Fe motel.

Us 3 Musketeers shared a room and I felt kind of bad that 9.3x62AL and I each had a queen sized bed and poor NVCurmudgeon had a rollaway. He said since he was a feathermerchant he was used to such things. The next morning he said he slept well and the added bed was quite comfortable, which made me feel better. The Santa Fe is a nice motel and if passing through I can recommend it heartily. Since this time of the year the weather can be rapidly changeable we took the room for 2 nights, with a 'Wait and see' outlook. We'd decided on the schedule the night before, so reveille was called Friday 0700 and we met BruceB at The Griddle cafe for breakfast at 0730. After a hearty cholesterol and fat filled start we were soon headed north on 95 toward Paradise valley.

Making a turnoff onto NV 270 East, we continued through sagebrush covered high country plains paralleling the south side of the snow capped Santa Rosa mountains. BruceB said the directions had been a bit nebulous and kind of 'Countryfied'. Such as, "Go through town and continue past the cement culvert, and then after a bit, turn right at the large stock pond (not the small one). Then follow the road aways until it goes uphill and then make a left through the double field gates".

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NV 270 runs into the town bountry, and then makes a sharp 90 degree turn to the south into the downtown area. The above 2 photo's show the entire downtown section of Paradise, NV. Or at least the West side of the street. The east side being remarkably lacking in structures. As one may see in the photo of the single brick structure, it has lost it's porch. Both upstairs and downstairs. Anyone going up the outside stairs (on the left of the building) will be VERY surprised upon stepping out. A very similar fate to anyone exiting that upstairs door, too :-)

We finally found the area where we had been invited to hunt. The word was that there were "Thousands" of ground squirrels, and we aimed for total extermination.

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This is BrucB setting up his new Geflatbedden Schuetzenwagon mit gerailings und gesteppen. He's handeling the shooting bench. The other is NVCurmudgeon (standing) and 9.3x62AL (in the pickup box) handing out paraphenalia. It took us about 30 minutes or so to get oriented and lined out for shooting.

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Later in the day, BruceB decided he needed to launch some 'Big, slow lead' toward those pesky ground squirrels. In most directions we had miles of clear shooting across the fields. NVCurmudgeon heads back for more ammo.

Friday started out well. Fairly warm in the sunshine when we had it but before too long the wind started, like someone had thrown a switch. The ground squirrel shooting was fairly sporatic and the little beggers were rather hard to see. BruceB had realized that the trailer while roomy, lacked some stability with 2 people aboard and moving around while it sat on it's tires and springs.

He figured he needed to add some jacks so the bed could be lifted a bit to rest on the jacks and the ground vs the springs and tires. Also the table was a bit lacking in stability. As you can also see, the rest of use were using some type of table setup to shoot from. Not proffesional varminters, but learning. About noon it had become rather unpleasant and the ground squirrels seemed to all have repaired underground to snugger environs. We all agreed to pack it in and head into the only intact commercial structure in Paradise, which was a saloon, and (hopefully) grill.

It turned out to be the case and we just made it as it was going to close at 1400. We had a couple beers and surprisingly good freeshly made home style double cheesburgers.

...................Buckshot

[Ricochet]

Always liked John Prine's song Paradise.

[Buckshot]

Part 2

.............On the way back into Winnemucca BruceB wanted to show us the new county shooting range site that was under construction.

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Turning off 95 just north of town, using the entrance to the landfill you countinue to the west past the facility. We stopped just short of the actual entrance to the new (un-completed) range where I took this photo. On the extreme left edge, in the middle is the road that's cut into the hillside and it continues to the right, almost to the center of the picture. At it's end is the new range.

First up to the left of the road toward it's end is two 100 yard bays cut back into the hillside. Just past these also on the left side of the road is a 200 yard range. Looking straight down the road past the 200 yard range is the beginnings of a 400 yard range which in this photo is pointing directly away from the viewer. Since there is nothing out there but more nothing, BruceB said he would suggest to the county to merely go ahead and make it a 600 or 1000 yard range. The mountains in the far distance, right center are the Santa Rosa's seen in the prevous pics.

A portion of the landfill is in the extreme right edge of the photo. Due to excellent management there isn't any bad oder, nor (as can be seen) loose trash and papers blowing around. The landfill contractor is the one doing the new range work and BruceB said they were real great folks. It was all our hope that the new facility would have concrete benches. At least on the rifle line, and that the proximity to the landfill and it's activity would keep the lowlife scumsucking vandals from destroying them.

Back in Winnemucca 9.3x62AL and I just HAD to go visit the 2 hardware stores carrying gun stuff. As before both (Ace and the True Value) were well stocked and fun to cruise through. Again the ACE had terrific powder prices and I picked up 2 lbs of Bullseye @ $14 per, and a lb of W748 for $16, having used up all I had on hand loading 223's for this trip.

We then went to the Bowling Alley for dinner. Not too long after we arrived Ammohead was rounded up and arrived just after checking in at the Santa Fe. We got to see the large well appointed room to be used for the 2008 NCBS Rooles Kommittee and Commencement Ceremonies shindig. As was mentioned, the menu is extensive and VERY reasonable in price and belies the quantity served. We enjoyed ourselves immensely. Yup, more beer too :-) BruceB announced that with the exception of Nevada Duke, the original cast of the first NCBS held at Topaz Lake 9 years ago was all present. Pretty neat.

We again went to BruceB & Karen's for more socializing and planning for the morrow. Since the previous had worked so well we settled on meeting at the Griddle at 0730. After a while we headed off to the Santa Fe and hit the sack.

After breakfast at the Griddle we hit the road again and after traversing the thriving metro area of Paradise, found ourselves in the shooting fields egar to deal death upon the vermin ground squirrels. This time with the added firepower of Ammohead.

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Looking back toward the south, away from the Santa Rosa mountains. This was the direction most of us had been shooting on Friday. Again we were all pretty much shooting off makeshift rests of one type or another.

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My rifle sitting on a 'Workmate'. A 1992 Vintage Savage M112 BV single shot in 223, 26" bull barrel and a 6-24 Tasco. It's a real half minute rifle, but can do better with it's accuracy load. For these squirrels I was using Hornady 55gr SX's over 28.0grs W748 in LC83 cases with WW SRP's which will hold a half inch for 5 at 100 yards. At some point early in the day I thought I saw a Badger streatched out atop a low dirt ridge in the field sunning himself.

I studdied him for a bit and decided I really WAS seeing a badger. The field had considerable number of squirrel mounds and holes, but also had a liberal sprinkling of badger burrows scattered about. I hollered that I had a badger in my scope and I wanted to know if I could shoot or not? Ammohead yelled back that I should shoot "The Bastard" as the farmers hated them due to the damage they do, and that there were no game restrictions. I squeezed off the shot to no great reaction.

NVCurmudgeon was set up a bit to my left. I pulled the empty and jacked in another live one and let fly. Much to my surprize, there was again no reaction, but dirt flew from behind him. I got to wondering if he might have been shot the previous day and had died atop the low dirt ridge? at that point NVCurmudgeon let fly with his Remington 700 in .260 Rem. Watching through my scope, it appeared he had blown his head off :-) NVCurmudgeon and I just HAD to go investigate so we both reloaded in case Mr. Badger wasn't quite ready to give up the ghost yet.

Nearing the spot I realized we had been dealing death to, and had blown the head off a cow flop that did in fact look remarkably like a sunning badger. While I could see the furrow in the dirt made by my 22 cal slug after passing through, it did not quite match the level of destruction ladeled out by NVCurmudgeon's 260 Rem, which had in fact literally blown his head off.

There had been another varminter out in another field shooting since that morning. To our wonderment he had been firing pretty steadily and was outpacing all of us in volume of fire sent downrange. Personally I felt he was just out playing, and was shooting at sticks and dirt clods, as no way could there be THAT MANY ground squirrels. He was standing on his pickup's tailgate and had an arrangement for his rifle to sit atop his sleeper shell on the pickup. He'd come over for a visit and was a very nice guy. His name was John and he lived in Minden, NV. He seemed serious and not some goofball. Ammohead and I and a couple other of the guys had wondered about all this shooting he was doing.

Seems that elevation is the key. John said that there were literally THOUSANDS of ground squirrels out there running around. We marveled :-) I took a stroll later on with my 22RF Remington 581 bolt action and Ruger MkII 678 pistol and took a long walk back behind the firing line. I nailed 3 definates, a good probable and the 5th would have had to have been a miracle. He was most likely a good 200 yards off. I had lobbed in 3 rounds while he sat atop a mound and making the 4th elevation adjustment let fly, at which he disappeared. Hit or not, it was fun.

Back to more shooting with the 223 for the rest of the day and most of us were pretty satisfied with our score and performance. After packing up there was a bit of conjecture of Sunday's shooting possibilities as the weather forecast wasn't very good with wind and rain called for. We decided to get the room for one more night and if it was crappy in the Am we'd pull up stakes and head for home.

That evening back at BruceB & Karen's we again found her hard at work in the kitchen after working all day at the office while we played. I felt a bit more then guilty. Before dinner she'd set out chips and 2 types of dip and was also preparing crab meat appetizers in transparent thin pastry with was then deep fried and had spicy dipping sauce. We scarfed those down while talking and having a few brews.

In a bit BruceB appeared with a big platter of sizzeling BBQ'd T-Bone steaks. Karen added twice baked potatoes with melted cheese sauce and butter with onions and chives, green beans, corn, German rice, sourdough bread and a tossed green salad. I suppose we pigged out. It was stupendous to say the least. We were treating it as a possible good bye dinner. After all that Karen announced she'd baked 2 home made pies. I was as full as a tick and I couldn't possibly find room. I think everyone else was in the same boat as I didn't see anyone having any. A real shame!

We decided to wait until tomorrow to see what would happen and to make a decision then about whether to pack up or try it out again.

[Buckshot]

Part 3

.............Back at the motel room, NVCurmudgeon and I swapped Sea Stories until almost 2300. 9.3x62AL had been in blissfull slumber for some time. I guess we bored him :-) While Sunday AM did look a bit less then blindingly wonderfull, off to the west it appeared to be patchy rather then lowering, gray and threatening. That's the way things like storms come from according to BruceB. We got a later start from the motel room then ideal, and BruceB had actually started for the motel to gather us up, HA!

We decided to give it a try, so off we headed to Paradise again. This time we decided to give Mindon John's suggestion a try. What a total difference 5-6 feet of elevation makes!!!!!

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BruceB on the Suburban's tailgate with Karen's 1976 model Ruger M77 bull barreled 220 Swift delivering some long range wakeup calls.

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9.3x62AL and NVCurmudgeon taking a breather form the long range stuff and testing out some 358156's on the burrowing rodents .................. much to their dismay. We had moved deeper into the field away from the bordering dirt roads. The further in we went, the better the shooting got.

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Ammohead actually had the hot setup. He spread his Carhartt out and put his shooting bench on it and had the best view of all. He was shooting a newer Savage repeater with a heavy barrel in 223.

On Sunday after setting up we did get some shooting in, but before too long we had a front move through with caused the temp to plunge 10 degrees and we got some snow. The air was rather quiet on the ground but must have been really moveing several thousand feet up and it cleared use pretty fast and went rumbleing on across the southern hills. Bright sunlight blasted out again and we began to shed Pendletons and jackets.

We had one more small snowstorm blow through and the rest of the day from about 1100 on was the absolute best we'd had up to then.

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BruceB down off his perch and looking for more ammo, while thebarrels cooled. I was up on the back of 9.3x62AL's pickup standing on the tailgate. I had the bi-pod deployed and extended resting on my guncase. By leaning against his boat rack I could swing the rifle in a wide arc across the top of his sleeper shell.

It WAS true that there were literally THOUSANDS of ground squirrels out there. The absolutely super weather we were having was just sucking them up out of their burrows in droves. Several times we had to stop to let the barrels cool. It seemed that the action would shift around the area ahead of and to one side or another. If targets thinned in front, all you had to do was to shift to the left a bit and a quick scan showed hundreds of'em out in all manner of activity. BruceB with his (really Karen's) 220 Swift was reaching a good long ways out there.

On occasion I would catch a glimpse of dust flying way up in the upper left of my FOV in the scope, and looking up, the hits were Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay out there. 9.3x62Al, sitting in his chair and offhanding his M788 in 22-250 would let out a 'Take THAT Darth Vader" or a 'HA' every now and then proving that height wasn't always required in such a target rich environment.

In addition to that the activity moved much closer in to us which made a switch to the 22 rifles and pistols a fun diversion once in awile. 9.3x62AL and I had figured these squirrels were pretty edjumacated about being shot at, as previously they never showed themselves very often or for very long. Our experience shooting them up in Cedarville, CA had us thinking of them as pretty stupid country squirrels. They would line up on a burrow and just sit there while you knocked them over, one after the other.

Walkabouts with the 22's were also very productive as most of them would quite often let you get into easy 22RF range before making a move to run or hide. However this Sunday afternoon in Paradise Valley , NV we were seeing the same ignorance happening. NVCurmudgeon had long since expended all his .260 Rems and had borrowed a nice little Mark X mini Mauser in 223 and was going on 60 rounds expended while simply sitting in a chair on the ground.

The day began to close a bit early due to increasing cloud cover moving in and the temp was dropping. As it was getting toward late afternoon we decided to begin to pack up for the trip back to town. Me, NVCurmudgeon and 9.3x62AL had decided we were going to take BruceB and Karen out to eat as a meager partial payment against a huge dept owed to their super hospitality.

However preparations were interupted by a new assault launched by a fresh hoard of squirrels, so in the slanting sunshine a final fusilade of gunfire racketed across the field. The squirrels must have been up for the last of the sunshine and in that brief period I managed ot get off 25 rounds myself. I don't know how many the guys with repeaters did, but there was a fairly constant drumroll of riflefire.

Ammohead did get some good shooting in, early on but he had to leave for home before things got really good. He had a mishap where his rifle took a tumble off the perch and managed to land on the window of his open tailgate of his Durango and it shattered the glass out. We managed to get a trashbag securely duct taped across the opening. It was during one of the snow periods and he decided at that point it'd be a good idea to head out.

Back in town that evening we had an outstanding meal at Las Margaritas and the company was fun and great to be with. We told Karen she was the designated driver, so for this the last night we enjoyed ourselves. Just before we left she ordered 2 large strawberry daquiries to have when she got home.

The next day we visited the Ace hardware again after breakfast before setting sail for home. We dropped off NVCurmudgeon at home and sat on his deck in the sunshine for a bit before hitting US 395 South for the trek home for 9.3x62AL and I.

One of the REALLY GOOD times that comes along every now and then, was the previous 4 days.

..................Buckshot

[Lloyd Smale]

sounds like a great time. Would have been the spot to work out an ar varmit gun.

[DanWalker]

It's a shame that so many of us had to find out later in life that THESE good times are the real important things in life.
Glad to hear your story. Thanks for sharing your adventure with us.

[EMC45]

Great story, awesome pics!

[9.3X62AL]

Fine company, great shooting, incredible scenery--it doesn't get much better than that.

The town of Paradise was a little emptied out--kinda like Reno would resemble if all the transplanted Californians and Bay Area gamblers left. The bar and grill served a right fine cheeseburger, though. It's plenty civilized enough for me.

The stark, utter empty beauty of Northern Nevada again enraptured me during the visit. You can breathe here. The silent steady undercurrent of oppression that imbues California is entirely absent in this vicinity--like Cuba as opposed to Texas. EXHILARATING!

The deeply-experienced Rem 788 in 22-250 got the bulk of the work this trip. Despite its "weatherbied" throat, it still can stack Sierra 60 grain HPs right on top of one another--so it stays a 22-250 year after year, delaying the conversion to 250 Savage with its rat reach and tight grouping. The tiny 223 (Ruger 77RC) got some licks in with 55 grain BalTips, about 50 rounds' worth--but the 788 did the heavy lifting. The newly-acquired rimfire Colt New Frontier x 4" got its first blooding with the Magnum cylinder on board, splatting a couple targets foolish enough to stand up for a sunlight check at close quarters. One rat fell to the bark of the 357 and impact of the #358156, again pretty close at hand. The moist hollow THWOCK resulting from hits is a very satisfying confirmation of target acquisition, regardless of platform used.

GREAT TRIP!

[Poygan]

Bruce,
For a while there, I thought the eating was getting as much verbage as the shooting! Its pure jealousy of course.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Thanks for the professional quality report and pictures, Buckshot. I can only add some ballistic notes to the story. My long-range rifle this trip was the semi-custom .260 Rem. 700 Laminated Stainless Mountain Rifle built by E4E from the old Shooters board. It did very well for a rifle that this geezer can pack over the mountain for deer, but was really too much gun for the conditions. This rifle is named "Nadia" because it becomes very gymnastic when fired off bags. It is light enough to cause loss of the sight picture when launching a 95 gr. Hornady V-Max @ 3100 fps. However I was very confident in backing Buckshot's play during the "badger" incident. The excellent accuracy and astounding cow pie vaporizing power were the exact medicine needed for the quarry. Once a good load for the new CZ .22 Hornet is worked up I expect more productive varmint shoots to come. Using BruceB's Interarms .223 was better, easy to see the rats being sent to the big alfalfa field in the sky. The last shot of the day was a perfect cartwheel around 1/3 of the scope field. The secondary battery was the ever-reliable CZ .22 LR, which distinguished itself by makng a first-shot hit on a squirrel at 100 yd. Shooting squirrels in such swarms cannot possibly make much of a dent in their numbers, but we are grateful to the local ranchers for their hospitality and hope we have helped save them a little bit of the crop.

[AZ-Stew]

Wonderful story! It made me wish I was there, and I almost felt as though I was. Not much more can be said for a good writing. Thanks, Buckshot, et al!

As a photographer of places that are less inhabited than they used to be, the semi-ghost town of Paradise beckons, as well.

I have a custom .22-250 Ackley under construction. Can't wait to try it out. My son and I have a trip to Wyoming planned for sometime in the next couple of years. Prairie dogs and antelope.

Regards,

Stew

[BruceB]

It was just as much fun as the other participants have related.

Seems to me that Bucksnort gave Paradise Valley rather short shrift, though. The little place is LOADED with history. It was founded in 1864 and became a mining and farm-service hub, and much of the "Old West" of romance and legend actually happened here. Gunfights, Indian battles against the Paiute and Shoshone tribes, and even a range war or two, alll enlivened the past history. Even in the very recent past, there have been very serious fatal shoot-outs between lawmen and others, with many questions STILL un-answered as to who was in the right of the whole mess.

One of Louis L'Amour's books, "Fallon", is placed in this immediate area. Some of the place names reflect the Western settlement era, e.g.: "The Bloody Run".

Like most small western towns, there's more than meets the eye. There are several hundred folks living in or near PV, and they are salt-of-the-earth types indeed. If one's family hasn't lived there for at least several generations, you are pretty small potatoes on the local scene.

The saloon and ice-cream parlor are neat and funky throw-backs to an earlier era.

It really is a SMALL town, though. We met a nice cross-breed dog while having lunch on Friday. On Sunday, coming back through town at the end of our shooting, there was a dog's body lying right in the travel lane at the one four-way stop in town. I said,"Oh rats, that looks like Daisy got hit." As I made the corner to the the left, the "body" got up from the warm asphalt and sauntered off to the side. Not only can the dogs sleep in the road, but even VISITORS know the dogs personally! Now, THAT is a small town!

Those nice mountain scenes show the Santa Rosa range, wherein we can find bighorn sheep, elk, mule deer, lions, coyotes, wild pigs, etc. etc. The field over which we were shooting is probably at least three square miles in extent, if not more. Even the longest-ranged varmint rifles run out of gas LONG before reaching the edges of the fields.

The rats are everywhere. There were times when I'd have five or six of them in the field of view while drawing-down on one of their number. They're also so quick and hyper that the shooter HAS to develop an accelerated trigger squeeze. I had one fortunate customer who avoided no less than FOUR squeezes with timely movements out from under the reticle. I never did break a shot on that jumpy rascal, coming within ounces of let-off each time.

I fired about 380 rounds of .220 Swift on this excursion. That is a LOT of shooting, and no lie. Half of that brass is now reloaded and set to boogey once more...and so am I!

A fine time indeed, and thanks, gentlemen.

[Glen]

Man! That sounds like fun, guys! I may have to make a trek this summer....

[madcaster]

That does sound great,and is actually something I would love to be in attendance for!Wish I could,BUT.my .32 flinter just can't be shot as fast as what everyone else would bring!Good thing I have my Rolling Block .45/70!:coffee:

[Lead melter]

Sounds like a wonderful time was had by all. Next time, if you need a back-up driver, I'm your man!

[Ghugly]

I love good writing. I was afraid that I was actually going to die from envy. But it seems that I'm going to hang on............so I had to say, congratulations! :drinks:

[HollandNut]

Seems some people jus have too much fun .. :drinks:

[Slowpoke]

Sounds like you all had a good time for sure. Brings back a lot of memories.

Those pictures of the country were sure good medicine for me.

NV curmudgeon when you get your Hornet sorted out I would be interested in hearing what bullet you pick for that kind of shooting.

I had a vacation job once for two weeks exterminating those little devils, the pay was room and board, at the end I told Elmer, you would think a disease would wipe them out as thick as they are, he said I think we kill just enough of them to keep them healthy. You might wonder how thick were they, a young boy of 9 or 10 years with a red rider bb gun and a old wore out hound would follow me out ea morning, the boy would fill a 5 gallon bucket with his BB gun in about two hrs, treats for the kenneled hounds, the old hound would gobble up so many of the ones I shot he looked liked he swallowed a beach ball , there would come a point when he could no longer move, he would lay there and bawl because he wanted more, the next morning he would be waiting on me frisky as pup, ready to do it again.

Here's to more good times to the five of you.

good luck

[NVcurmudgeon]

Slowpoke, the Hornet is a beautifully petite CZ 527, but up to now has not done much better than 2 MOA with Hornady and Sierra 46 gr. over 2400 and IMR 4227. There are many more bullets and powders to try, and it's near impossible to burn out a Hornet. Will let you know when there is some reportable progress.

[carpetman]

NvCurmudgeon--Any thoughts of trying cast in the hornet? I suspect my 58 grain RCBS would be too heavy for a hornet???? Work great in .222 and 22-250. Should be perfect for the rat shooting.

[NVcurmudgeon]

NvCurmudgeon--Any thoughts of trying cast in the hornet? I suspect my 58 grain RCBS would be too heavy for a hornet???? Work great in .222 and 22-250. Should be perfect for the rat shooting.

Before the Hornet I want to buy a 6.5 mould and work up loads for the .260. I am courage challenged, self-torture has to be taken in slow, easy stages.

[C A Plater]

Slowpoke, the Hornet is a beautifully petite CZ 527, but up to now has not done much better than 2 MOA with Hornady and Sierra 46 gr. over 2400 and IMR 4227. There are many more bullets and powders to try, and it's near impossible to burn out a Hornet. Will let you know when there is some reportable progress.

FWIW my best accuracy powders for the Hornet in my CZ are H110/W296 AA1680 and Lil'Gun. H110 will go fastest and hold group size but is hardest on brass. AA1680 (WC680 in surplus) makes wonderfully small groups with lighter loads and just about any bullet. Lil'Gun will fly as fast or faster ( 3000fps+) than the hottest H110 load but at way less pressure but is not quite as accurate. It is also impossible to over load the Hornet with Lil'Gun. Small Pistol primers gave better groups with all powders having group size @ 100 with that change alone.

[carpetman]

NVCurmudgeon---Bill I've heard for years how difficult the .22's are to cast,but I have not found that to be the case. I use bottom pour and I do hold the mold to the nipple and it makes a tiny pin head size sprue that often sticks. If I hold the mold away from the nipple to make a bigger sprue it comes right off. Oh yes heard many times to add tin as it helps fill out. Tried it and saw no difference. Getting 120 bullets to the pound your put doesnt go down very fast.

[Three44s]

Well it sounds like you fellows had quite a time!!!

Now are these ground squirrels ...... sage rats, prarrie dogs or California ground squirrels?

Thanks for the good story.

9.3X62AL,

Your quote:

"The deeply-experienced Rem 788 in 22-250 got the bulk of the work this trip. Despite its "weatherbied" throat, it still can stack Sierra 60 grain HPs right on top of one another--so it stays a 22-250 year after year, delaying the conversion to 250 Savage with its rat reach and tight grouping."

I took note of this because I also have a well worn 788 in .22-250 well ........ actually mine has a very shot out tube and I too have contemplated a .250-3000 rebarrel for it ...... (it wears a Canjar single set trigger ..... a hard combo to just let sit in the corner)

But I was talking to recently moved out of area gunsmith's ..... younger gunsmith about just such a conversion.

And it troubles me.

I would consider a .250-3000 chambering for the dual purpose attributes ....... but the fly in the ointment is that we are afraid that longer bullets seated in a .250-3000 case won't fit in the magazine.

The 788 was made in .243 and .308 etc. but with a longer action.

It's always something!

Regards

Three 44s

[NVcurmudgeon]

Well it sounds like you fellows had quite a time!!!

Now are these ground squirrels ...... sage rats, prarrie dogs or California ground squirrels?


Three 44s

Definitely ground squirrels, but which ones I can't say. Certainly not California ground squirrels, I have dealt wth them all my life in CA and western NV. Not Belding grund squirrels, as are found in Modoc County, CA and easily identified by smaller than CA GS size and short tails. These were abut the size of Beldings, but with a tail the length of a CA, but not as bushy. I guess only the rats know for sure.

[dromia]

Looks fun Buckshot but pardon my ignorance what are you shooting at, ground squirrels?

Sounds like an oxymoron.

What do you do with the deceased?

No photos of the trophy's?

Badgers are dirty, flea ridden, TB infected buggers. They are protected in the UK. :roll:

[Scrounger]

I imagine Buckshot is asleep now so I'll throw what I know out there, he can add his later. It is my understanding that the ground squirrels, like their cousins who live in trees, are actually members of the rat family. They are prevalent all over our western states, where food is abundant for them, they mass produce into hordes. Ranchers hate them because they dig holes to live in, and his livestock is at risk of breaking legs etc. Farmers hate them because they eat his crops. They also hate birds, bees, and butterflys for the same reason, (poetic license) if he can't make a profit on it, it doesn't belong on his land. Most of them are very glad to let shooters reduce the rodent population to at no cost to him. They really are fun to shoot. I can't call it hunting, it's just plain killing, but most of us seem to have that basic instinct in our makeup and this is a legal, productive way to exercise it. If you ever get over to the colonies, give it a try. Most states don't require a license of any kind to do it.

[Scrounger]

A little research indicates they are the Spermophilius Elegans, or Wyoming ground Squirrel. link and picture below.

http://www.mnh.si.edu/mna/image_info.cfm?species_id=351

[NVcurmudgeon]

A little research indicates they are the Spermophilius Elegans, or Wyoming ground Squirrel. link and picture below.

http://www.mnh.si.edu/mna/image_info.cfm?species_id=351

Scrounger, could be. That's another variety of GS I didn't know about. California, Belding's Richardson's, Columbia, and now Wyoming, plus prairie dogs. They sure have a lot of cousins!

[floodgate]

Following in the footsteps of Walt Kelly (remember POGO?), I just erefer to them all, collectively, as "groundchucks".

floodgate

[carpetman]

floodgate--No,groundchuck is found in the meat section of super markets.

[bruce drake]

Carpetman,

How do you think they get all that groundchuck in the freezer at your local supermarket. If it was'nt for the herculean efforts of the heroic groundchuck hunters like Buckshot, NVCurmudgeon and 9.63Al :)

Bruce

[Scrounger]

You guys got my blood lust a surging, I want to kill something. While killing squirrels is popular, killing prairie dogs is more well known. As far as I am concerned, they are just a slightly larger version of the squirrels. I knew a couple of guys at our old range before i retired who went up to Wyoming or the Dakotas every year. They took 15,000 rounds of ammo and reloading stuff, shooting for most of two weeks. I'm sure the shooting was a lot better then than it was when I started, 1994 or thereabouts. Not really having any idea on where to go, we contacted a guide who advertised in VarmintHunter's Magazine. He charged $200 a day, per person, and I have to say he was well worth it. He had scouted all the ranches in the eastern Montana-Wyoming area in an ultralight plane he had built himself. He'd made financial arrangements with the ranchers and stopped in every morning to pay them whatever fee they had agreed upon. The first year we hunted in Thunder Basin. You cannot believe how much coal they are taking out of there, thousands of carloads everyday. He picked us up at our motel in Bill. He had a four door, four wheel drive pickup with a twelve foot trailer attached. In the trailer were two swivel benches to shoot from, another one in the back of the truck. We drove for about an hour, maybe a little more, back into the foothills on a road I wouldn't have had the guts to attempt in a Jeep, much less a trailer. We ended up in a big soybean field (I think) about a mile wide and two or three miles long. He drove a quarter mile or so into it and stopped. All three of us arranged our stuff and started shooting. Shots were anywhere from 40-50 yards to however long you wanted to try. I'm happy with 200 yards, I only shoot farther than that when there are no targets closer. Every hour or so, he'd move the truck up 500-600 yards. Minor calls of nature were taken care of beside the trailer. Lunch was whenever you wanted to eat. He brought sandwiches and soft drinks. We just shot our way through that field. About 5 o'clock I missed a 'dog three times at 100 yards and realized I was done, I couldn't shoot any more. A brass count revealed I'd fired a little over 600 rounds (.223 Rem), my friend was in that same area although he'd used several different calibers, up to .308. He had a lot of guns, he wanted to exercise them. There was a storm coming in the next several days so we stopped on a high note and went home.
The following year with a different friend, the guide (Floyd Mitchell, he deserves a plug) had us meet him in Broadus, MT where he lives. He took us well north of Broadus back into country that made the previous year's drive look like a quiet street in Pasadena. I would have bet my rifle that not only wouldn't he get that pickup and trailer across that washed-out gully, but not even a horse could cross it. Wrong again. He said these fields hadn't been shot over in 6 or 7 years, (Given that road, I could believe it) they belonged to a widow who didn't let anyone in. I got the impression from things Floyd said that he was quite the lady's man and that got him into a lot of good shooting places other guides couldn't unlock. This place was just as good as the one the year before, if anything the dogs were dumber. I hit my first 24 shots, which is unusual for me, but the longest of them was maybe 75 yards! At one point we rolled by a gigantic 'dog hole; there had to be 25 dogs in it, in one mass, like a handful of fishing worms. Sportsman that I am, I fired into the center mass. It was like throwing a match into a box of firecrackers. Dogs and parts of dogs erupted like a volcano. Did I mention this was all of maybe 40 feet away? Another fantastic day of shooting, fatigue driving us out with lots of dogs still on the table.
I haven't been back up there since then, I've planned to go but something always came up. Maybe next year. But I don't want to shoot like that anymore. I'd be well content to get, say, 50 shots at targets 100 to 300 yards out, over a 4 or 5 hour period. That's what getting old does to you.

[BruceB]

We didn't need any heroic-sized exertions to accomplish our shoot, which was nice. Also, there's a neat OLD bar & grill within about 20 minutes' drive from the rat-fest! The site is just one hour from my home on good highways. Pavement extends to within about three miles of the shooting site, and only the last mile or less was on a rough roadless field (made rough by THOUSANDS of rat- and badger-holes, plus narrow trenches cut by the wheels of the water-pivot). The field we shot over was several square miles in extent, I'd judge. 4WD was never needed, but as usual it was nice to have the ability if needed.

I'm not interested in close-range shots with my longer-range rifles, so by choice I was pretty-much limiting myself to 200-yards-plus (as best I could determine over open ground with nothing much for a sense of scale). On careful recollection, I believe I was running about 35-40% hits with the Swift, and some shots were getting out around the 400-yard mark. Some rounds were fired at well beyond that range, but hits were scarce. I re-learned a GREAT respect for my rifle and the capabilities of its cartridge. I'd much prefer to kill one rat at 350 to dumping four or five rats at 150 yards! The few rounds fired with the .45-2.1 Sharps netted nothing more than dust clouds....

Anyway, I fired about 380 rounds of .220 Swift over the three days, with only 50 of those fired on the first day. In addition, I burned about 80 rounds of .223 and a few dozen .22 Long Rifles on closer-in rats. These rifles were used mostly while allowing the Swift to cool down somewhat.

The gent from Minden, John S., predicted that "You guys will be exhausted." He was correct. By the end of Day Three, I was pooped. When I rolled down my driver's-side window when we first met him, he took one look and said, "Man! This looks like a REAL bunch of handloaders!" How he figured that, I'll never know, but he really gave up hope when I told him that we're also ALL bullet-casters.

[Scrounger]

Yeah, killing is so debilitating...

[Three44s]

Yeah, hard work but somebody has got to do it!

LOL!

I think this is our "little" pest around here:

http://www.desktopscenes.com/Scenes%20from%20Glacier%20National%20Park%20(2004)/slides/Columbia%20Ground%20Squirrel%20Portrait.html

Three 44s

[9.3X62AL]

Well it sounds like you fellows had quite a time!!!

Now are these ground squirrels ...... sage rats, prarrie dogs or California ground squirrels?

Thanks for the good story.

9.3X62AL,

Your quote:

"The deeply-experienced Rem 788 in 22-250 got the bulk of the work this trip. Despite its "weatherbied" throat, it still can stack Sierra 60 grain HPs right on top of one another--so it stays a 22-250 year after year, delaying the conversion to 250 Savage with its rat reach and tight grouping."

I took note of this because I also have a well worn 788 in .22-250 well ........ actually mine has a very shot out tube and I too have contemplated a .250-3000 rebarrel for it ...... (it wears a Canjar single set trigger ..... a hard combo to just let sit in the corner)

But I was talking to recently moved out of area gunsmith's ..... younger gunsmith about just such a conversion.

And it troubles me.

I would consider a .250-3000 chambering for the dual purpose attributes ....... but the fly in the ointment is that we are afraid that longer bullets seated in a .250-3000 case won't fit in the magazine.

The 788 was made in .243 and .308 etc. but with a longer action.

It's always something!

Regards

Three 44s

3 x 44...........

Ya knoiw what--that longer OAL question never occurred to me (2.350" vs 2.510"). That's called "not thinking the idea through completely". Thanks for steering me straight. I need to do some more measuring and figuring, and that 788 might just stay a 22-250. I like how the cartridge performs, but the 223 is a LOT more practical--and the barrel life of a 223 is probably double that of a 22-250. My present barrel will still do decent work, but it too is shot out.

[Scrounger]

Is it a longer action or just a different shaped magazine. Is there a block in the .22-250 magazine? I had one but Reagan was in office and I don't remember the magazine too well... I'd bet it would work. I didn't like the ugly stick out the bottom magazine so I converted mine to a single-shot anyway.

[Three44s]

I don't know if the .22-250 was also chambered in the longer .243/308 Rem 788 action but I do know that my rifle is of the shorter action.

A fellow in our area is DEEP into steel clanging and converts 788's into .260 Rem.

My stock (a Ramline) was broken and this fellow sent me one of his take off stocks and the action length was definitely longer as the screw holes were considerably off.

A very nice wooden stock but could not use it ......

As to blocked magazines ..... my .22-250 magazine is definitely not blocked ..... and for 55 gr. Nosler partitions I use every spare thousanth to try to get within a mile of the throat .......

9.3X62AL,

You mentioned .223 ....... the action length would support it no doubt but I think your bolt face already cut for an '06 case head might preclude it.

I have been mulling these same issues for going on three years ...... and finnaly "could not handle the stress" and bought a CZ 527 American in .223 for fifty dollars more than the quote for a rebarreling ........

But I still miss my 788 ..................

..... Oh .... I like the CZ and .223 PLENTY ..........

But the heavier 788 and more punch of the .22-250 ............. ringing a coyote's bell at 300 yds is just not the same without it!!!

Three 44s

[Dale53]

Sounds (and looks) like you fellas had a GREAT time! Thanks for sharing the pictures and story with us.

Dale53

[carpetman]

Bruce Drake---I hope NvCurmudgeon is not involved in stocking meat at the supermarket. If you cant tell a cow pie from a badger. Guess if he supplies meat you'd have to cook the $hit out of it.