My friend was lucky today!

[huntrick64]

Safety-tip for all!He loaded up some (what he thought) mid-range 357 loads with 4.7 grains of HP-38 and a 158 grain cast. He loaded 200 with his progressive machine and used a digital scale to verify his powder weights (multiple times). He was switching from another caliber and powder combination so he had to calibrate his powder thrower. He went to his backyard range to shoot this morning. He said when the first round went off, he thought he KB'd his Ruger security-six. He was able to open it up, but could not remove the fired case. Nothing appears to be bulged, cracked, or show any signs of damage, but the case appears welded into the cylinder. He stopped shooting and pulled one of his boolits and weighed the charge on his balance scale, 14.5 grains! He pulled another and it was 14.5 grains! How messed up was his electronic scale?? He turned it on and weighed the charge, it was 4.7! That is when he noticed it was 4.7 carats and NOT grains!!! When he pressed the units to show grains it was indeed 14.7. I have no idea what his pressures were, but 6.7 grains under that pill is around 42,000 psi and he had over double that.He called just to let me know because I use the same scale in my loading. It rotates through grams, ounces, carats, and grains. He said that is one of the problems with getting older, things like this can creep up on you without your knowledge. He will have to have his gun checked out before firing again, but glad he wasn't hurt. He also said, "glad it was Ruger or I might have had a bigger problem."Please, please, please verify your units are correct on an electronic scale and double check that with a balance scale.Rick

[mongoose33]

Thank you for the cautionary tale.

Perhaps a good argument for testing your scale w/ a known weight each time you use it.

I zero my scale with the powder pan on it--when I remove it, it reads -121.1 grains. That's my own check on the scale.

************

I had an interesting story today w/ my brother, who I've been teaching to reload. Generally he's fairly safe, but even then, I discovered that what he's hearing me say isn't what I'm sending his way.

He lives 2.5 hours away, has no chronograph, so worked up some rounds and visited so we could run them over my chrono. I've been preaching "work 'em up, work 'em up," even gave him an example of how I do it, i.e., there's a starting load listed in the manuals, that's where you begin and work up by .1 or .2 grain increments.

So, he's got some new bullets by Acme bullet, they're red hytek coated (I worked up some rounds w/ them, they shot great). Anyway, I didn't know what the range of starting charge to max charge was, with W231.

He begins with the first rounds, and WOWIE! They're about 1050 fps, far higher than I would have expected a starting charge to be. Turns out, he thought--I don't know how, I emailed him specific directions on how I do it--that the start charge was where you thought you'd want to end up, and then move up from there.

Well, when I saw the first velocity, I said STOP, and asked him what he'd done. He explained. All the more inexplicable because I'd worked up some rounds w/ Universal using the same bullets, he saw how I started at the low end w/ 3 rounds, then up a tenth, 3 more rounds, then up a tenth, 5 rounds, then up from there.

My brother did say he'd learned a lesson today about working up rounds. But sheesh--it's just as bad as a bad scale. I don't know how I could have been clearer about it. Fortunately, we didn't have a Kaboom, but that kind of misunderstanding would have eventually ended up with one.

[Tailhunter]

Ouch.

[Bzcraig]

Good to hear no injuries involved! I use an electronic scale too but I always check charges first with my beam scale.

[smokeywolf]

Although everyone should use the tools that they understand best and are most comfortable using, electronic scales are not for me. I'm in no hurry and don't need to produce prodigious quantities of cartridges so also have no need for a progressive press. Although I would jump at a good deal on a Hollywood turret, for now a single stage press and a couple of beam scales keep me pretty happy and comfortable.

[Vinne]

Scary...

[Hickory]

If I were your friend, I'd call Ruger and explain to them what happened and have Ruger check out the cylinder before shooting it further. It could still come apart even with mild loads.

[RobS]

I too like a mechanical scale and use a check wait etc. Having a digital scale............I just don't trust something that I can't see I guess. Glad everyone is OK.

[huntrick64]

I like mongoose's idea of checking the weight of his pan after taring a load. I think I will write the grain weight of my pan in the pan with a black sharpie, then I can see it each load and certainly when I tare the load. I.e. Checking it with a known weight in grains.

[jonp]

I did that once with Unique I think it was and a 38sp. Weighed it out and filled a case and wondered what was going on as the case was way too full. It always pays to be extra cautious.

[gtgeorge]

How does one not notice by sight the difference of 14.7 gr vs 4.7 ??

Glad he is okay though.

[ioon44]

I use electronic scales but always check it with a check weight and confirm the charge weight with my beam scale. I find electronic scales can drift and need to be zeroed often.

Hard way to learn, glad no one was injured.

[bedbugbilly]

I ought a fairly good electronic scale and used it for quite a while. Then I started getting some erratic readings on it. I would throw a charge with my Lee Perfect Powder measure . . . at the time I was loading some 38 Spl. and using 3.4 gr. of Bulls Eye. I would calibrate the scale, then dump the load in the pan to check it. What i began to notice is that the readings were varying by .3 or .4 grains depending on if it was in the center o the pan in a heap or if it was spread out in the pan. I got to where i just didn't trust it and started using my RCBS 505 beam scale again. I figured my Lee Measure could easily vary + or - .1 grain but since I was no where near "max" - no biggie. What i found was that my Measure was throwing very accurate loads but my electronic scale was not doing such a great job in measuring.

As an old reloader who had been doing it for many many years told me when i was talking about it with hi . . . "you can't defy gravity". Your friend was lucky . . . I discovered early on that my electronic scale weighed in grains, grams, etc. and I can see how it could easily get off grains purely by accident if the wrong button got pushed accidentally. Fortunately for him he still has his revolver and his hand . . . and I think the advice to call Ruger and have the revolver checked out is a wise one. And your story is a great reminder to every one of us that you need to "check and double check" everything. Thanks for sharing!

[scaevola]

I keep a beam scale at eye level next to my bench. The electronic scale is on my bench. After getting everything set using the electronic scale I place a charge on the beam scale and if the two don't agree I find out why.

I like the convenience of an electronic scale but know they wander. I use check weights on both scales.

[gwpercle]

You can't be too careful in this game, even with a beam scale. many yeas ago, (circa 1971) I was loading some 110 grain Super-Vel hollow points 0ver 10.5 grains of Unique for 357 magnum (this load taken from infamous Speer Manual #8) , now I had used this load before, EXCEPT this time in my youthful ignorance I accidently set the scale to 15.0....I can only thank the good Lord and Bill Ruger , because that Ruger Blackhawk was strong enough to stay together. Had to tap the cases out with a brass rod and the primer pockets had enlarged . I would love to know how fast that bullet was moving. Them Ruger Blackhawks must be hell for stout or the Lord likes me.
So be careful and double check whatever type scale you use. That incident made me extremely careful when charging cases.
Gary

[whisler]

"Them Ruger Blackhawks must be hell for stout or the Lord likes me."
I think both statements are true.

[whisler]

"Them Ruger Blackhawks must be hell for stout or the Lord likes me."

I think both statements are true.

[tmc-okc]

"Had to tap the cases out with a brass rod and the primer pockets had enlarged "

GW - Just how many of them cases did you fire ??

Ron H

[olafhardt]

I went back to dippers.

[Bberguson]

How does one not notice by sight the difference of 14.7 gr vs 4.7 ??

Glad he is okay though. I'm new here and don't want to ruffle feathers with my first post but... I have to agree with this. 2 or 3 grains might not be that apparent but 10 over! It was triple the charge! Sounds like he was overly distracted by something else and shouldn't have been reloading. Can't argue about the strength of the Ruger though, they are built to last. I too am glad a fellow reloader is okay after an accident. Hope his Ruger is too!

BB

[bearstopper]

I went back to dippers.
Dippers, or diapers? �� Thinking diapers might be needed with an overcharge of that magnitude!

[country gent]

I always find the group of check wieghts that equal the charge and check the electronic scales with them after zeroing. I have thought of making wieghts for my most used charges so I dont have to subtract down with the multiple check wieghts. it wouldnt be that hard to do get the wieght close and match on scales to rcbs check wieghts. For smaller pistol charges a length of copper wire carefully trimmed to wieght and coiled around a piece of round or square stock would make a wieght that could be set on the scales during zeroing to make sure of accuracy.

[P Flados]

I was using "typical care" & then got nervous.

I went through my "go to" powders & did a really good checkout on how much my RCBS measure drops once every half turn (weighed a batch of ten drops twice). I measured the stem extension at each increment with a 6" dial caliper. I put the info on a chart.

Now I glance at my chart & set the stem extension using the caliper. This gets me to the right place as long as I do not mess up.

Then I do a check on the old balance scale.

The double check is very quick since I know exactly what to expect.

I have also figured out that a standard slip up on the measure is being off 1/2 turn or 1 full turn. A standard mess up on my scale is being off 10 grains. Since these two never match up, the double check works pretty good.

For all of my standard loads, I can deal with only using 1/2 turn increments on the measure. Giving up on picking an exact charge at some other position is not really that big of a deal compared to the security of knowing that this approach protects me from an overcharge.

[outdoorfan]

How does one not notice by sight the difference of 14.7 gr vs 4.7 ??

Glad he is okay though.


I'm new here and don't want to ruffle feathers with my first post but... I have to agree with this. 2 or 3 grains might not be that apparent but 10 over! It was triple the charge! Sounds like he was overly distracted by something else and shouldn't have been reloading. Can't argue about the strength of the Ruger though, they are built to last. I too am glad a fellow reloader is okay after an accident. Hope his Ruger is too!

BB

Couldn't agree more!!! He most absolutely should have visually noticed the difference. Should have been obvious.

[popper]

I only have the FA electronic, check with the pan, if not 172, something is wrong. It sometimes drifts 0.2-3 gr. I suspect 8-9 gr went out the barrel.

[gwpercle]

"Had to tap the cases out with a brass rod and the primer pockets had enlarged "

GW - Just how many of them cases did you fire ??

Ron H

I refuse to answer that on the grounds that it would definitely incriminate me.

It was a long time ago, but if memory serves ... It might not have been 15.0 grains, I think I was trying to load 10.2 grains of Unique, so it was only 12.0 grains that I loaded with those 110 grain SuperVels. I tend to embellish my stories over time . The cases did stick and the primer pockets were enlarged , but 15 grains would more than likely have been real bad.
But the point was , be careful with beams too.
I didn't shoot all 6....only 5 .
And I also find myself dipping most reloads, especially handgun charges.
Gary

[Idz]

The Frankford scale instructions are pretty foolproof, if they are followed. My DS750 has remained within calibration and kept its linearity for about 3 years now. Only when my basement shop gets down to the 50 degree range do I notice some drift. When operated within the specs listed in the instruction manual it is remarkably precise and accurate.

[Blackwater]

Sometimes I wonder if it's not a GOOD thing to blow a gun up, so long as nobody gets hurt, of course. I blew up a Super Blackhawk once by simply reloading too late at night while far too tired. It seems I wasn't quite as 10 ft. tall, bulletproof and immortal as I thought, because I took my powder measure and emptied the hopper of 231 into my near empty can of 2400, thereby setting myself up for the blowup on my NEXT loading session. I can guarantee you it's a VERY humbling experience, and your friends will never let you forget it, too. I guess I need to hang around guys with more of a sense of humor?

Thanks for posting this, because we ALL need a reminder now and then that we ARE fallible, no matter how many rounds we've reloaded and not run into any problems .... YET!

[MT Chambers]

I check all my rounds in the loading block with a flashlight, any abnormality will jump out at you, you could def. tell the dif. between 4.7 and 14 grains, can that be done with a progressive loader??

[Seeker]

My Lyman digital weighs in grams and grains. It automatically converts over to grns. when calibrated, which I do every time I use it.

[Idz]

I have a fluorescent lamp positioned by my Lee pro-1000 progressive press to visually check the charge as the case moves to the bullet seating station. Any odd powder charge is easily seen. The Lee has never thrown a bad charge but if something mechanically goes wrong (usually a case with a burr on the head) and I remove a case then its easy to mess up.

[bruce381]

good he was fine the pistol may not be tapping out a case may mean the cylinder is bulged have to looked at.

[retread]

Several years back a friend of mine blew the cylinder out on his Ruger Flat top. Only thing he could come up with was a double charge. He sent it in to Ruger with an explanation of what he thought had happened and asked if it could be repaired and how much it would cost. They sent he a new one without any comment. No that is customer service.