Bad luck with some new Lee molds.

[dilly]

I just got a couple Lee molds from Midsouth in today and I was very excited to crank out some bullets. They were both six cavity and they were the Lee 312-155 and the 311-93-1r. I don't have any particular beef with Lee and have usually had really good luck with their six cavity molds, and even their later double cavity molds.

After a good scrubbing I start pouring bullets. When I have a new mold I immediately discard quite a few castings of them because it just seems better to do that anyway. The 93 grain mold seemED like a pretty decent mold but I had a lot of trouble with the 155 grain mold sticking. It actually didn't stick badly until it started to heat up, but the bullets were all wrinkly. By the time it started getting hot, the bullets would stick harder than I've ever had a mold stick.

I finally went ahead and did the thing with some rouge and a bullet with a screw in it to smooth it out. I did it to both molds while I was at it. I also made sure to give the molds another good cleaning because of course it's necessary with all that rouge all over the thing.

Then I get back out, heat the molds up, and start dropping the 93 grain bullets. It was really just raining bullets and seemed great, but the 155gr bullets were still giving me grief. The hotter the mold got, the tighter it stuck to the bullets. We are talking REALLY stuck. It was so stuck I couldn't get it hot enough to cast bullets that didn't wrinkle because the mold would cool while trying to get the bullets out. I was not able to get one sharply filled out bullet from this mold after two cleanings and probably 40 castings.

At that point I figured I'd just cast up big pile of the 93 grain bullets, but after a while I got out my micrometer and the bullets were out of round. Not just a little bit, but a lot. Some bullets would measure .321 in one dimension and .311 in another. I know what you're thinking; I somehow did it with the rouge. No, I have samples of bullets from before I did that and they are way off too.

I'm thinking both of these molds need to be sent back, and I will likely have better luck money wise going through Midsouth. What do you guys think? I still want the molds and would be happy if they just sent me two more of the same that functioned properly.

[RobS]

Yes, return through MidSouth before Lee. Lee will make you pay the shipping and Midsouth should have a return policy. I would also send some of the boolits with the molds with a nice letter stating what is going on etc.

[Hannibal]

Have had the same experience lately, but with Lee 2 cavity vs 6 cavity. The ones I have seem to have a problem with the alignment pins not out far enough to properly align the mould halves. I have fixed the issue, but have not had a chance to cast more bullets and see if the moulds will cast round bullets now. Hopefully that test will occur this weekend.

[kungfustyle]

When you get a bad mold, you get a bad mold. Had a 150g fn 30 cal do the same thing with out of round. If your melt is way hot drop it down to about 600 or so an try that. Most molds like seem to like the 700 range. It sounds to me like you know what your doing, send it back to Midsouth. I have 4 Lee molds that are great but bought them when I started casting. But after the few that I've had that didn't work, Lee told me I must be doing something wrong, I won't get another. NOE molds are too good worth saving for. Or better, they make great birthday and Christmas gifts.

[Hickory]

Lee moulds need to be made of better quality aluminum then recycled soda cans.
A little harder alloy and they wouldn't gould as much and might last longer.

[44man]

Actually, soda cans are better. That is the biggest beef I have had with them.
The soft metal might change expansion rates too.

[dilly]

Have had the same experience lately, but with Lee 2 cavity vs 6 cavity. The ones I have seem to have a problem with the alignment pins not out far enough to properly align the mould halves. I have fixed the issue, but have not had a chance to cast more bullets and see if the moulds will cast round bullets now. Hopefully that test will occur this weekend.

I guess this is a fix I haven't heard of. Care to explain how that all works?

[bedbugbilly]

I've used Lee molds for many years and still do have some (as well as Lyman, Ideal, RCBS, Ohaus, etc.). A year or so ago, I ordered a 2 cavity Lee 358-125 RF. When it arrived, the handle pivot screw barely had the nut on it, one alignment pin didn't even extend out and the other one wasn't out far enough. OK . . . I can reset the alignment pins and tighten the handle pivot bolt. Those things accomplished . . . when closed, the cavities wee misaligned by about .004" - all block edges were even. I bought ti through a good vendor on this site - they advised to send them photos that they would forward to Lee . . . end story . . . whoever handled it at Lee messaged that "it was operator error" and I needed "to follow the enclosed instructions in the box". Huh? I've been casting for 50 + years so I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. Of course I could send it back on my dime . . . . the ^*%$^& mold looked like it had been slapped together in a junior high shop class and it should never have left the factory.

I have a number of Lee products that I use and I have no complaint on them other than a couple of bullet sizing dies that were not the correct size . . .

Now, I just consider a Lee mold as a "sample boolit maker". If they have a design and grain weight that I want to try, then I'll take a chance on a $20 Lee mold to try them. If the mold turns out to drop good boolits . . all the better. If marginal . . . I can at least try the design/grain weight (hopefully) and then order a good quality mold from NOE or similar. And . . when I DO order a Lee mold to try out . . . I now request the vendor to open the box and inspect the mold before sending it out.

Some folks consider Lee molds as "kits" . . . something that needs to be altered and tuned before using. I don't. If I'm buying something that is supposed to work . . . then it is supposed to work. And, it doesn't take any longer to do a "good job" than it does to do a "bad job". It all boils down to the QC and whether they WANT to produce a good product or a mediocre product. And my collection of molds now includes many more Ideal/Lyman, RCBS, Ohaus, Lachmiller etc. molds than it does Lee molds. Personally, I don't see how Lee can produce their molds (2 cavity for examppe) and retail them at $20. But there is no reason to equate price with quality on any product. i'd probably buy more Lee molds and pay a little more if they are made out of decent aluminum and "consistent quality" existed . . . but it seems to be "hit and miss" at times.

[44man]

That is true more then you think. The only thing Lee makes that I would not be without are the lead pots.

[dilly]

At 1/3rd the price, I'm willing to accept a good bit of risk. I'll be quite relieved if fiddling with alignment pins can get the 93gr mold putting out round bullets; it cast smooth like butter and that is really a pleasure.

As for the other one, maybe I'll have better luck next time. That's a problem I really don't understand. ALL bullets stuck EVERY time on the same side of the mold when it got hot. What does that mean?

[earthling121757]

Close the mold and look down the cavities... does it look like the cavities are cut on center with the parting line? I had a 6 cav 40 cal mold that I had to bang the heck out of the pivot pin to get the bullets out. Cavities were cut off center about 20 thousandths. Lee did send me a new one that was right, though I had to pay shipping to return the bad one.

[Hannibal]

I guess this is a fix I haven't heard of. Care to explain how that all works?

In a nutshell, you have to remove the handle pins, which usually involves drilling the mould from the top directly over the pins with a 5/32" drill bit. Best done in a drill press, if you have one. Look closely at the mould block and you can see where the pin is, and thus where to drill. Drill down just far enough to hit the top of the pin. About 1/8" or so. My experience has been that the handles and pins hold the mould blocks too tightly to check for movement without removing the pins and handles.
Then carefully drive the pins out with a pin punch. Best to lightly but firmly clamp the mould in a vice for this.
Once the mould is out of the handles, you can check for movement between the halves when you hold them closed. If they shift around, you have to take a larger pin punch and drive the pins toward the center. It's a trial and error thing. If you go too far, clamp the mould halves in your vice *CAREFULLY* and tighten said vice until the mould closes without a gap between the halves.
Then, clean up any burrs on the handle and mould sides so that the mould can move around enough in the handles to align when closed. Probably have to drill the pin holes in the handles out one size larger. Otherwise, the handles and pins hold the mold halves too rigidly and your alignment pin work is for naught.
Once this is done, pin the mould back on the hanldes with the old pins.

The only way you know you done good is to cast some bullets and check for symmetry.

Hope this helps.

[Hannibal]

At 1/3rd the price, I'm willing to accept a good bit of risk. I'll be quite relieved if fiddling with alignment pins can get the 93gr mold putting out round bullets; it cast smooth like butter and that is really a pleasure.

As for the other one, maybe I'll have better luck next time. That's a problem I really don't understand. ALL bullets stuck EVERY time on the same side of the mold when it got hot. What does that mean?

May be that the cavities are off center as Earthling said. You could also try lapping the cavities. There are already many threads on that, so I won't beat a dead horse here.

[RogerDat]

Off center cavity would put the mass of the lead inside the arms of a "C" on one side of a mold. That little bit of wrap around would make it really hard to get a cast out. Simple explanation is often the one to check first.

Be easy to do, get a chip caught in the fixture holding the mold blank and it would end up cut off center. Care when locking stock in place for machining would prevent it most of the time but not 100%.

[dilly]

In a nutshell, you have to remove the handle pins...
Hope this helps.

This sounds like a method for the older two cavity molds.
Like this:
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/107/107907.jpg

What I have is the six cavity mold with connections like this:

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/916/916523.jpg

Is there a way to adjust the six cavity molds to try and get a rounder bullet? Those pins look like they aren't going anywhere.

As for the cavities being off center on the 155gr mold, that seems like a good explanation. I'm not sure what heat has to do with it, but it's definitely not a problem until the mold starts to heat up. Maybe some sort of mold warping?

Thanks for all the input guys.

[rsrocket1]

I know that Lee will tell you to smoke the 6 cavity mold to see if that prevents the bullets from sticking and I would recommend you do the same. I know a lot of folks here poo-pooh the idea but it does work sometimes. At least you could say you tried it and it didn't help (but maybe it would). I use a butane lighter (for lighting gas grills) to smoke the cavities, then rub the insides with a cotton swab. There is very little soot in the molds and the soot will only fill any micro cavities. It may be a bunch of hooey, but it has worked for me in the past and since Lee recommends it, you aren't voiding any warranty by doing what they say.

These are way too new for you to have to work on them very much. If the simplest things don't solve the problem, sent them back.

[Hannibal]

This sounds like a method for the older two cavity molds.
Like this:
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/107/107907.jpg

What I have is the six cavity mold with connections like this:

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/916/916523.jpg

Is there a way to adjust the six cavity molds to try and get a rounder bullet? Those pins look like they aren't going anywhere.

As for the cavities being off center on the 155gr mold, that seems like a good explanation. I'm not sure what heat has to do with it, but it's definitely not a problem until the mold starts to heat up. Maybe some sort of mold warping?

Thanks for all the input guys.

The new 2-cavity moulds have alignment pins just like the 6-cavity you show. The specifics for a 6-cavity are going to be different, but the principal is the same. Those alignment pins may well be set in too far. And yes, they will move with a pin punch. If you measure just on each side of the seam line, across the seam on your cast bullets and one measurement is your max diameter and the other side is the minimum, then the alignment pins are quite likely the cause of the problem.

[cold1]

Wrinkled boolits in a new LEE mold. I had the same thing just a few weeks ago in a 457-340. I scrubbed them twice with dish soap and acetone, changed alloy temps and mold temps. Even frosty boolits had wrinkles. Tried to just keep casting till the wrinkles went away. Nothing helped. I finally broke down and smoked the cavities, wrinkles disappeared and have not come back. Casted a little over 100 boolits on that one smoke and have not had to smoke it again.

Hope it helps.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I "smoke" the cavities with a grill lighter, and have great results.

[dilly]

Off center cavity would put the mass of the lead inside the arms of a "C" on one side of a mold. That little bit of wrap around would make it really hard to get a cast out. Simple explanation is often the one to check first.



I was able to look and, when I knew what to look for it was obvious this was the problem with the 155 gr one.

I'll consider that case closed and I hope that Midsouth won't direct me to Lee for returns because I'd honestly rather deal with Midsouth than Lee.

Now I need to think about the out of round bullets. If I can do something with pin adjustments I'd like to do that, but I'm not really sure. The only adjustments I can imagine with that mold are just pushing the pins either in or out. It does look like they close up pretty tightly.

I should have paid attention to which bullet radius was the larger one; the one with the seams or the one perpendicular to the seams.

[Hannibal]

I was able to look and, when I knew what to look for it was obvious this was the problem with the 155 gr one.

I'll consider that case closed and I hope that Midsouth won't direct me to Lee for returns because I'd honestly rather deal with Midsouth than Lee.

Now I need to think about the out of round bullets. If I can do something with pin adjustments I'd like to do that, but I'm not really sure. The only adjustments I can imagine with that mold are just pushing the pins either in or out. It does look like they close up pretty tightly.

I should have paid attention to which bullet radius was the larger one; the one with the seams or the one perpendicular to the seams.

If you are planning to return one mould anyway, and if I read your posts correctly and these are both nearly new moulds, perhaps you would be better off returning both of them?

I fooled around for months before ever casting with mine, so I owned 'em by that time. Fixing them or using them for paper weights are my only choices.

[bangerjim]

Your wrinkled boolits are NOT caused by grease or oil in the mold. You mold is cold. And "warming" it over the pot is not good enough. Buy an electric hotplate and heat ALL molds to FULL casting temp ever before starting to cast. You are wasting tons if time using the lead pours to heat up your molds. I pre-heat all molds (and feed ingots) and get perfect wrinkle-free drops form #1. A "good scrubbing" (olde school) is never needed. I have NEVER washed and scrubbed any of my molds.....right out of the box, smoke with a beeswax candle (ONLY), pre-heat as above, and cast perfect boolits every time.

Try it, You will be amazed. A hotplate is just as necessary as lead, a melting pot, and molds to casting these days!

Probably not be a single thing wrong with your molds with wrinkles. Out-of-round or light gaps are a different story!


bangerjim

[dilly]

bangerjim, you're right that the mold isn't getting hot enough. It's not getting hot enough because it's drilled off center, and when it gets close to the proper heat, bullets start sticking and it takes so long to get it the bullets out that there is no real way to keep the bullets up to temp. I've cast with many other molds and I'm able to get/keep bullets up to temperature. I preheat my mold (somewhat) on the back of my promelt and it really doesn't take very long for the lead to get it the rest of the way warmed up.


Hannibal, I think you're right. I'll call up Midsouth and see what their return policy is.

[dilly]

I had never dealt with Midsouth customer service before but they are going to take the molds back and pay for the shipping too. I'm going to ask that they just send me out a couple of replacements.

The shooting and reloading industries have the best customer service out there. Even Lee and Lyman (whose reputation for customer service is less than perfect) would be considered top notch in comparison with any other industry.

[MT Chambers]

Trouble with new Lee molds? The dickens you say!!

[RogerDat]

When the bullet cools maybe it gets smaller, shrinking enough to get past the arms of the C. One thing I learned working in shops when I was younger. It fits or it don't. If it don't fit then no matter how much I swear at it the dang thing still won't be the right size.

[Hannibal]

I had never dealt with Midsouth customer service before but they are going to take the molds back and pay for the shipping too. I'm going to ask that they just send me out a couple of replacements.

The shooting and reloading industries have the best customer service out there. Even Lee and Lyman (whose reputation for customer service is less than perfect) would be considered top notch in comparison with any other industry.

Good to know. Thanks for passing your experience along. You can bet I'll remember this.

[ukrifleman]

Out of round bullets are not necessarily a problem, if you beagle a mould you get out of round bullets.

All my moulds except one are Lee and I find they work well for the most part. One thing that will cause bullets to stick is burrs on the edge of the mould cavities. These can be easily removed by carefully scraping them off with a sharp blade.

ukrifleman.

[Hannibal]

If anyone is interested, using the methods I described earlier I was able to take a Lee mould that was dropping bullets .007" out of round and reduce that to .002" out of round. Still not marvelous, but something I can live with for the cost.

Good casting to you all!