PDA

View Full Version : Garand- Winchester & Springfield Values



Littleton Shot Maker
10-12-2015, 10:16 PM
Dad is parting with some of his long held collection
1st - He was told by some one at the Legion Post that his Winchester M1 Garand- correct stock, all 'stamps' ( cartouche?) correct period original PARKERIZED all matched parts would be worth 4k?? Is this out of the ball park?

2nd is his Springfield stock is junk 'I think'. but since it's a war issued gun I could imagine seeing much worse out there other wise it's in very good condition would fetch $3.5 K top end??
this one has signs of being captured in Japan and then at some point it was 'returned' front of barrel had been painted black by the enemy - why? I don't know...

I don't run in those circles and not planning on collecting them my self....

Any help would be greatly appreciated

starmac
10-12-2015, 11:39 PM
Sounds on the high side, but I don't run in those circles either.

jcwit
10-12-2015, 11:47 PM
High, IMO. Check prices on Gun Broker.

lefty o
10-12-2015, 11:50 PM
if his winchester garand is blued, its not worth too much. realistic value for a correct win would be somewhere between 1000-2000 dollars..

Littleton Shot Maker
10-12-2015, 11:52 PM
I thought so too...I will look at G.B. that's a good idea.... just never got into them -
if it where an M14../ M1-A1 yeah I know those. An ar10- good to go- But these are out of my depth of knowledge
thanks you gents...for fast response ...


NOT blue but some odd color park.. Greyish Green hard to put finger on the shade , original color , varies from all other M1's made by the others back then...

M-Tecs
10-12-2015, 11:59 PM
I would say $1,800 and $800 to $900 but this site has some selling for a lot more http://www.scott-duff.com/M1Garand.htm

CMP sales http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/m1-garand/

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=72112

Mike H
10-13-2015, 12:01 AM
I thought so too...I will look at G.B. that's a good idea.... just never got into them -
if it where an M14../ M1-A1 yeah I know those. An ar10- good to go- But these are out of my depth of knowledge
thanks you gents...for fast response ...


NOT blue but some odd color park.. Greyish Green hard to put finger on the shade , original color , varies from all other M1's made by the others back then...

I am no expert,but I did own a H &R Garand,the finish was a grey/green colour,seems to me yours is original.
Mike.

leadman
10-13-2015, 11:14 AM
I have seen a couple of Garands listed for sale here in phoenix for close to 2K but don't know if they actually sold. The Springfield is worth much less, probably around $600 to $800 tops. The CMP has an auction site for their best guns so take a look at that for the Garand.
My friend sold a match grade Garand a short time ago for $1,500.

Char-Gar
10-13-2015, 11:23 AM
I am not a Garand collector or expert but I do know one thing that is relevant to your question. A WWII Garand in 100% issue state could well be worth $4K. These things are scarce as hen's teeth and should not be valued by ordinary Garand standards. The vast, vast majority of Garands were rebuilt, to one extent or another after the war. Not many escaped this rebuilt process and hence the much higher price for one that has escaped.

Now, as to your father's Garand, based solely on numbers, it is not likely it has not been rebuilt to one degree or another. However, it may be the real deal and you will need some true expert and collector to confirm and affix a value.

You will not be able to establish the value of a real unaltered WWII Garand by going to GunBroker, gun shows or checking gunshops in your area, for they won't have any. A collector is not going to buy one unless they can get their hands on it and do a detailed inspection of the parts. There are fakes out there that are passed on an the real deal. ,

A Garand collector would salivate at the possibility of obtaining a real unaltered WWII Garand, and they would expect the rifle to show hard use. The hard use was the reason this gizmos were rebuilt after the war, they took quite a beating in European and the Pacific theaters of war.

My Garand has a 1944 Springfield receiver, but the rest was rebuilt in the 60's and the rifle was "canned" for storage, following the rebuild at Red River Arsenal. It came to my hand in about 99.9% new condition and cost me $500.00 in 1999. I would not sell it for three times that amount today.

Der Gebirgsjager
10-13-2015, 12:01 PM
Your Dad's Winchester M1 is very likely in the $2-4,000 range, with $2,000 being almost a give away. There are guys that scour the internet and parts dealers' inventories to locate parts made by Winchester, then assemble them into an all-Winchester rifle. They very often go for $2,000, so yours being truly original should bring a higher price. I'm thinking that $3,000 would be realistic.

The Springfield is interesting, and I'd like to hear more about it and see pictures if possible. It is also an M1 (?) or is it a bolt action M-1903? Is there any paperwork with it indicating how your Dad came into possession of it and its past history? If the stock truly is junk it can be replaced. I've seen more than one M1 with the gas cylinder painted black as they were made of stainless steel and rapidly lose the original parkerized finish and become shiny. With no verifiable history, the "junk" stock and the black paint, it falls into the $500 range. Remove the paint and refinish the gas cylinder, add a nicer stock, and if it has a good bore you're in the $800 price range. The "captured in Japan...and returned" story is intriguing, but without documentation not worth much. Are there any Japanese markings on the rifle that would back up that story? Actually, the black paint sounds more like something the American Legion would do to one of their ceremonial rifles to enhance parade appearance.

Littleton Shot Maker
10-13-2015, 12:52 PM
No paper work - that would be nice-
All M1's no 1903's

As the story goes from OLD GI, the Japs painted the barrel to MARK them so their troops would the right ammo in it...?
Sounds odd but I was not there in 43 and if HE has 1st hand info I won;t challenge the old Guy (not Dad) telling the story-

Claimed it was taken off dead Jap, then he "tossed" HIS Carbine (junk in his words) and got back to work. SO that 'one' was a War trophy/ return stated side,The Army then told said GI to take it HOME....
who knows things where allot different in those days, Troops took their Rifle HOME , they where LIFE issued?? for duration of time in...

NOT checked in and out of a locked armory like these days. YOU DID sleep with you girl (so many had Women's Name given to them)... now when they asked him about the carbine he told then where to go find it if they wanted- HE said 'HE COULD TAKE US THERE RIGHT NOW' I believe him - you could still see the fire in his eyes even in 1987?? He still hated all and everything Jap made owned built etc...Love those guys- OWE THEM MUCH..

Der Gebirgsjager
10-13-2015, 01:50 PM
Did you watch the TV mini-series "The Pacific"? I bought the DVD set, and have watched it all the way through several times. I think that they did a really good job of portraying the inhumanity of both sides and the hatred both sides held for each other. Your Old G.I. story is interesting, and may be true, but it sounds like he's deceased? Too bad, because if he was available to write out a first person statement and have it notarized it would help with the gun's value. I've heard a lot of war stories, but never one exactly like that about the reclamation of a captured weapon and its subsequent return to action, and then being allowed to leave the service as a war trophy. Technically, U.S. Property remains U.S. Property and has to follow the route of being declared surplus to U.S. needs and then be sold off. But there were many weapons taken home by G.I.s, most clandestinely (stolen), but some with tacit approval. Seems like a lot of higher ranking officers kept their .45s, and they keep turning up in pristine condition in the desk drawers of their estates. I recall visiting a friend's house in the early 1950s and there was an M1 Garand hanging on the living room wall that his older brother had brought home from Korea. I also remember an elderly fellow who used to hunt deer with an M1 Carbine in the late 1950s long before they were ever released for sale by the government. You're right though, about them being kept locked up tight now days. Even when I was in the military in the early '60s they kept close track of each and every weapon, and I recall an incident where a fellow claimed to have lost his .45 pistol on maneuvers. He was subsequently found to be shipping it home in pieces, and when the C.I.D. had collected all the pieces they reassembled it, laid it on the First Sergeant's desk, and off the offender went for 20 years to Leavenworth. I suppose that the Courts Martial took into account that when the pistol had turned up missing his entire unit had been ordered back out to the maneuver area for three days to search for the missing weapon, which of course they did not find.

Littleton Shot Maker
10-13-2015, 03:13 PM
ouch-

WE lost some gear- very expensive- electronic laser range finder glazer thing - over my pay grade- "a mule??" and some night vision. we did not come back to barracks , we stayed out an extra 4 days looking for said gear- got to go back to hit the rack for one night and then go back out to sand pit to find it again for 3 more days??- this is Co, level search now. some how it 'showed' up - ONE guy got locked up for losing it , not theft, even thought it was 'found'.


A full container load of NEW gen. 2 Gortex gear got stolen while the unit was gone, there where maybe 20 guys left behind all supply , this was about 6-8 weeks before going to Pickle Meadows for winter training- we had to beg, barrow and steal gear from the sister unit next door that was going to Irwin to play with the Army so we 'took' thier Used Older gen1 Gear..it took 1 - 1 1/2 years to bring the guy up on charges and he was out by then . They went and got him and dragged him back for the Court Martial- so they extended his hitch another 12 years?? no pay don't steal from Uncle Sam.

shooter93
10-13-2015, 05:53 PM
You need to find a collector in your area. An honest one with lots of knowledge. With out some VERY good pictures or better yet a close inspection no one here can really evaluate them for you. Prices fluctuate wildly depending on condition, rebuilt or not and paperwork etc. Get someone who really knows Garands and ask them telling them you probably aren't selling them but need to know. That way you will be assured of getting the correct value.

jcwit
10-13-2015, 06:07 PM
You need to find a collector in your area. An honest one with lots of knowledge. With out some VERY good pictures or better yet a close inspection no one here can really evaluate them for you. Prices fluctuate wildly depending on condition, rebuilt or not and paperwork etc. Get someone who really knows Garands and ask them telling them you probably aren't selling them but need to know. That way you will be assured of getting the correct value.

What He says.^^^^^^^^

Stewbaby
10-13-2015, 10:27 PM
You likely need to post on the CMP forum...it is full of knowledgeable Garand guys.

Thin Man
10-14-2015, 06:37 AM
Really clean, original military arms do appear occasionally. A few years ago an older lady came into the shop with her "great uncle's" pistol from the Great War. She wanted it cleaned and checked out so she could shoot it. She handed me a military flap holster with a 1911 in it and I immediately checked it to be unloaded, which it was. Removing it from the holster it appeared to have been re-blued as it was very clean with only a little dust hanging on it. At the bench I stripped the slide and paused to take a closer look inside the frame and slide interiors. What I saw made me catch my breath. The pistol had not been refinished, it was completely original and in fantastic condition, even museum quality. There was no rust anywhere. A slight amount of dried oil and grease inside came out of the interior easily. I gave this one a complete disassembly and slow, respectful cleaning to preserve the finish. All parts were well finished and showed no wear. The barrel's bore condition and finish would rival a match grade barrel. The serial number dated the pistol to 1914, a true 1911 before the A1 transition, that came up in 99% finish appearance condition. The back of the holster had "(Name)'s Raiders" (can't recall the name at this point) hand written on it. I spoke with the owner and told her what she had in terms of rarity. Her view was that this was a "family" item she wanted to shoot. Market interest meant little to her since she was going to keep it. Despite this I left her with the request to call me if she ever intended to sell the pistol. That call has not come in yet, but the day is still young.

Thin Man

Echo
10-15-2015, 06:12 PM
I was at a local gunsmith's shop several years ago, and he showed me a 1911 a customer had left with him. Colt 1911 - serial number 12, as I remember. Looked brand new. He was going to clean it up, polish the slide, do a good blue job - NOT! Just check it out - and dream - me too...

Got-R-Did
10-15-2015, 07:01 PM
I am a Garand Collector's Association memeber, and attended the GCA Convention in Anniston/Talledaga, AL, in Sept. Likewise, I am a participant on the CMP Forum, and volunteer Armorer through the CMP for KY Am. Legion, Disabled Vets, and VFW Posts.
My advice is to contact Scott Duff directly. He probably knows someone in your area that can establish a Data Sheet for parts/stock/finish, etc, to authenticate how correct the rifles are and aid you in estimating realistic values. Scott likely has a waiting list of his better customers who are looking for just such a rifle to fill the niche in their collections.
As stated above, buy the rifle, not the story.
Keep us posted on your progress.
Got-R-Did.

tygar
10-15-2015, 10:15 PM
As above, call Scott. A all original Win, not rebuilt is an easy 4k. Scott can give you all the info you need. Get his books. He walked me thru it all many yrs ago when I started on collecting them. Don't really know todays values since I havn't followed it but they have gone way up, especially for original or minty guns.

Got-R-Did
10-16-2015, 12:06 PM
Does the cartouche look something like this?

151249
Got-R-Did.

Got-R-Did
10-18-2015, 10:58 PM
Anyone home?
Progress report?
Got-R-Did.

Littleton Shot Maker
10-20-2015, 01:48 PM
Sorry. got busy then the NET went down during some crazy late monsoon rains we are having here in Phnx Area.
Yes that is one on the side of the stock, but now I see Dad has 3 M1's one set up FULL N.M. parts- found out he was up to 4 or 5 at one point, I had no clue...