Hot Rod Renegade range report!

[koger]

Went out this weekend, and zero checked my 3 inlines, all still dead center. I then zeroed my Hot Rod Renegade, at 25, 50 then 100yds, took all of 8 shots. Then I shot a 4 shot group at a .45 sized dot on cardboard, one ragged hole about 1 1/4 inches long! This was with Powerbelt 295 gr HP's, copper coated! I was using 80gr 3fffg Goex., #11 caps. I will be upgrading to a Magspark within the week, just had not gotten one yet, no issues, but this is to be a hardcore hunting gun, and you want it to go bang, regardless.! I then tried a 3 shot group using 80gr3fffg and a Hornady Great Plains 385 grain slug on a shootnC target someone had posted, unmolested. Was dead on, just a little lower, all 3 shots overlapping somewhat, a long ragged hole, good to know either one of these are good to hunt with. I now have to get some .500 slugs, that Ron and Roger advised me to shoot molded up and Paper patched, can only imagine how they will do!!! I sent pics to a friend, he should add them tonight or tomorrow! The Limbsaver recoil pad is super nice, just a nice gentle push when shooting!

[Fly]

Man that sounds great. Ron helped me with my lyman gpr. I put the 1 in 28 GPH barrel on it & lyman peep sight,
& a mold for that S&W 500 bullet he recommended. It not my Gibb's but as close to it out to 200 yards. I don't have a place to
shoot out farther than that, but I can't see any farther any how.I might try some Powerbelts for fun though. But there to pricey
to shoot very often here.
Keep us posted, Fly

[idahoron]

Awesome! If you shooting naked bullets make sure there is no lead in the barrel when you shoot those paper patched bullets. Keep up the good work!!!

[idahoron]

Man that sounds great. Ron helped me with my lyman gpr. I put the 1 in 28 GPH barrel on it & lyman peep sight,
& a mold for that S&W 500 bullet he recommended. It not my Gibb's but as close to it out to 200 yards. I don't have a place to
shoot out farther than that, but I can't see any farther any how.I might try some Powerbelts for fun though. But there to pricey
to shoot very often here.
Keep us posted, Fly

Might not be as accurate as the gibbs but she is packin a lot of clobberin in that load. [smilie=w:

[1989toddm]

Pics a little late, sorry Sam!

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/12/0e2c0e9bb88af7c15ff3350634443ba3.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/12/397c8b4f45c550b355ce54624bd12424.jpg

[idahoron]

Very well done!!

[Fly]

Ron thank you my friend. You have helped so many here. Guys that's what this form is about. We learn
from each other. When I first started making black powder there was not much info on the net. Much
of the info was not good.

Much of my testing was trial & effort. I messed up a lot of powder in my learning curve. Today with the help
of this form we have so much info available. Cast Boolits is one of the best. You can ask a question on any
topic & there is almost always folks that can help.

Fly

[idahoron]

I am happy to help when I can.

[Motor]

Have you chronographed that "hot rod" load? I have found a 20% increase in velocity using FFG 777 over any holy black. This is straight up same volume powder charge comparison.

I got 1325f/s using 100gr FFG Goex BP with the Hornady 385. 90gr of 2FFG 777 (with 10gr FFFFG under it, this is a flintlock Renegade) yielded 1675f/s.

Yes the 777 did cause leading with the plain base 385. I now use the 295 copper plated HP Power Belts. I use them in my inline rifles anyway.

Motor

[Fly]

No leading with paper patched.

Fly

[idahoron]

A friend of mine loaded my 460 gr paper patched bullets in a TC white Mountain carbine. He used 100 gr of T7 and his stock cracked. I stuck with the pyrodex P.

[EricinFla]

Both groups are impressive, well done.

A question about the 385 Gr GP's....could those be paper patched? Has anyone tried that?

[koger]

I am sure if sized down, they could be. The set trigger on this breaks in ounces, yet is safe, rifle is full length glass bedded. I took Ron's advice and polished/lapped the barrel some, to break it in, shot super consistent, no hassle to zero. I have quite a few cans of Black powder, so will be shooting this. I could never get the consistent groups in any of my rifles, with T7, or Pyrodex, that I can with Black powder. This includes my tuned inlines, Knight, TC Omega and CVA Kodiak!

[Fly]

Ya I,m a black powder fan also. People talk about T7 all the time, as to how powerful it is.
I never used it & never will. I guess I,m a purist when it come to black powder. I look at
it as if I want more power, just use more.

Just me, Fly

[idahoron]

Both groups are impressive, well done.

A question about the 385 Gr GP's....could those be paper patched? Has anyone tried that?

I have paper patched the 410 Hornady. It shot well enough but not as good as it did naked. I also shot the No Excuse bullets paper patched and they shot very well. And I also shot the Lyman plains bullet naked and paper patched. The lyman was a piece of **** bullet. The Hornady is super soft. and the only issue I had with the NE was the total lack of quality control. Those bullets would vary up to 10 grains.

[johnson1942]

yesterday when i cleaned out the gun corner of the wash roo0m in the basement, i threw out 2 cans of triple 7 and one jar of pyrodex. probably should have poured them on the garden but i was up and down those stairs go many times i just them in the sack with the rest of the stuff. real black or blackhorn 209 for me and nothing else.

[Motor]

If throwing away $75+ worth powder makes you feel good I guess more power to you.

As for accuracy shooting everyone has their own personal preference. As a test we loaded 5 different bullets including sabots and Power Belts from my sons Knight 209 Wolverine. All 5 were within a 2" of center at 100 yards using 100gr FFG 777 loose powder. That's 5 different bullets in a 4" group at 100 yards.

Motor

[johnson1942]

i can agree that triple 7 can be a accurate powder. the clean up just wasnt worth it. real black or blackhorn for me is easy to clean up. the money never entered my my mind when i threw it away, as the misery of cleaning triple 777 wasnt worth it. pyrodex only shot accurate in one gun i had and i dont have that gun any more. if you lived close i would have given the stuff to you.

[Motor]

I really don't understand this clean up thing. Yes Pyrodex is no eaiser to clean than black powder.

However. 777 does not hardly foul to start with and cleans up with plain cold water !!!!

Yes it does leave a almost transparent film that can effect accuracy but not typical hunting accuracy, at least not in my tests.

When I clean my flintlock the only hard part to clean is where the 10gr of FFFFG was to prime the 777.

Can someone please explain this hard to clean 777 thing. I've been shooting it ever since it came out and can't figure out how anyone can say it's not many times easier to clean than when using traditional black powder.

Motor

[OnHoPr]

I really don't understand this clean up thing. Yes Pyrodex is no eaiser to clean than black powder.

However. 777 does not hardly foul to start with and cleans up with plain cold water !!!!

Yes it does leave a almost transparent film that can effect accuracy but not typical hunting accuracy, at least not in my tests.

When I clean my flintlock the only hard part to clean is where the 10gr of FFFFG was to prime the 777.

Can someone please explain this hard to clean 777 thing. I've been shooting it ever since it came out and can't figure out how anyone can say it's not many times easier to clean than when using traditional black powder.

Motor

I tried a lb of 777 and it was the dirtiest powder inconsistent powder I ever used in my GUN. I used from 100 to 150 gr charges with many projectiles, mostly sabots. With a 150 powder charge I got the ramrod with cleaning jag stuck in the barrel a couple of times trying to break the fouling ring. I had to use a WET patch to break through the fouling ring after each shot. Now, I wouldn't of thrown it away because going to the range to shoot a bunch of 60 gr PRBs at paper would have been more enjoyable. You still have to clean it regardless of cold or hot soapy water.

[Motor]

Shoot one round using 100gr black powder and see how many patches it takes to clean the bore.

Do the same with 777. 2 patches does it. One damp to clean it. One to dry it.

Do you guys ever use these things in real conditions? My first shot last season was in -4 degree weather. Did you ever see what black powder fouling does at frigid temperatures?

There is no frozen black mud using 777. Reloading without patching is simple. I'm told the Black Horn 209 is even better and it might be but until I use up my supply of 777 I won't know.

Motor

[johnson1942]

did 777 get rid of the hard as burnt sugar crud ring at the breech end of the gun? maybe they did. not with the stuff i had. may be the climate isnt good for real black in some areas of this country when cold. ive hunted in below zero weather with real black but never had a problem with it. lower humidity here and higher elevation. thats why we mix anti freeze with the mixture that we damp the cleaning patches with. it really cuts the fouling on a cold barrel. im too old to fool with **** anymore, so i use what isnt ****.

[Motor]

johnson, fully understood. I've been flintlock hunting in PA's flintlock only season since it's inception in the mid 1970s. My brother has a hunting camp and we get together with friends for this annual event.

We have fielded as many as 25 hunters. This has been goin on for years. With this much exposure (this many different rifles and people) you learn a lot. I'm sure most of the problems come from the fact that most of these guys get out there smoke poles once a year and at one time I was one of them.

Fallow up shots with the flintlock is VERY common. I can't tell you how many half seated PRB and other projectiles we've had to deal with over the years. There is no time for swabing when the deer is standing there watching you reload.

I've not noticed this ring you speak of but we shoot either power belts or sabots. I even use the power belts in my flintlock. I occasionally use the 385 Hornady but I reduced the load to 10gr FFFFG and 70gr 777

Yes I do believe that the humidity in PA makes the black powder fouling much worse. It typically turns into this black pasty mud and it coats the entire bore. I don't get any of that using 777 which makes reloading a sure uneventful thing.

777 is harder to ignite. I don't suggest using it with #11 caps unless you use a priming charge like I do in the flintlock.

I don't really use it for any velocity advantage but it does have some like I found out with the flintlock.

Black powder has its limits. Someone stated in an earlier post that he could just use more BP to achieve the same results. I don't think you can. If you can get a Hornady 385gr going 1675f/s from a 50cal Renegade using black powder I would like to see it.

Motor

[cbashooter]

I've burned quite a few # of 777 in various rifles and my ruger old armys.it's good stuff.most who poo poo it hardly shot it enough to warrant an opinion on it or any powder.I have quite a bit of g.o.fff but like 777 and Pyrodex p in most caplocks.

I'm a purist too,I ride to the range on my horse,wear home made clothes,my rifle was made by hand(barrel and all).....Oh wait I just like to shoot,nevermind.

[Fly]

Well I can tell you this. You are not seeing me out in -4 degree weather, that's not fun for this ole man.

Fly:veryconfu

[cbashooter]

With 55g Of 777 3f And Patched Ball I often shoot 30-40 offhand in my .50 with no real problems.towards the end it gets a bit harder for a final seat but no much.