Floral Foam as an over powder wad

[Irascible]

Last year when I acquired my schuetzen rifle in 32 Miller Short, I also learned about using a floral foam wad to keep the powder against the primer. We use the "wet" kind, sliced thin and pushed onto the case to cut out a wad which is then pushed down against the powder. When the powder is ignited it turns into dust and doesn't seem to do anything but improve the groups. This is a breech seated bullet, and there is quite a gap between powder and bullet base. It would have to be used on a straight wall case such as a 45-70 or 38-55 of course, but I started wondering if anybody had tried it on a case with a bullet seated in the case and maybe crimped?
This is all about smokeless powder. Black is usually a case full and there is no question of space between powder and bullet nor is there a question about improved accuracy by keeping the powder against the primer.

[JSnover]

I have done that with crimped boolits and all I can say is it worked and did not cause any trouble. Due to some other issues I can't say whether or not it improved my accuracy, though it was recommended by a respected shooter at the club.

[bedbugbilly]

Interesting post. Do you have any idea of what the composition of the floral foam is? I guess I always assumed it was a plastic composition of some type - you say it goes to "dust". Offhand, I wold have thought it would either vaporize (if it was a plastic?) or perhaps have given a problem with residue.

I know it compresses fairly easy between your thumb and finger. I'm just wondering how it wold work to take up space in a 45 Colt casing with BP to use a reduced charge. If you loaded a casing, used a compression stem on the powder and then inserted the wad - seems like seating the boolit would compress the foam and you'd have no airspace?

Food for thought anyway.

[bangerjim]

Search engine time:

http://americanfoamtech.com/docs/AFT_MSDS_Wettable_Floral_Foam.pdf

[Rooster]

You guys would shave the cat if the hair made a difference or saved a penny! :bigsmyl2:

[bedbugbilly]

Rooster . . . . LOL . . . I have problems getting real BP at times and I'll be hanged if I'll use a substitute after shooting BP for 50 + years . . . plus I like to "experiment" with different loads. And a grain of powder or lead saved adds up to another cartridge! But . . yea . . . what you said is right so I'll just admit it . . . "I'm cheap" . . well, not cheap but "reasonable" as my old GF used to say! :-)

[Wolfer]

I like to think of myself as ( thrifty )

[reed1911]

Frugal here

[therealhitman]

You guys would shave the cat if the hair made a difference or saved a penny! :bigsmyl2:

No. The cat hair opened up my groups quite a bit actually. And boy was Fluffy ticked off.

150961

[Rooster]

Hahahahaha!!! I love this place!

[Green Frog]

Lots of info about over-the-powder wads and case mouth wads for schuetzen over on the ASSRA Forum. Charlie Dell, who developed his own version of the 32/357 did a lot of research with wads, especially with relation to possible damage due to chamber ringing. If you ask this same question over there at ASSRA.com, you'll get lots of good info. One established truism seems to be that putting your wad right down against the powder encourages chamber ringing, but leaving it 1/8" or so off the powder allows the powder column to slump a tad and seems to eliminate the problem.

Froggie

[Irascible]

Dust for me was a generic term. I really don't know what happens to the wad, but I do know it causes no problem and nothing comes out of the barrel. If you rub one of these thin floral foam wads between your fingers they do just turn to dust. Previously I used cork wads and the floral foam seems better. I think it was Charlie Dell who laid bed sheets out from his bench to catch the cork wads and have a look at them, he seemed to think that the cork wad upset the burning and flow of gasses out of the case/barrel and sometimes caused inaccuracy.

[JSnover]

Foam, IMHO, may act as a damper, causing less of a spike in the pressure curve as it gets compressed. Though it seems to be made of more air than anything else, it is apparently better than nothing.

[KenH]

Is this floral foam the stuff that florists use to stick flowers to in making a wreath? If so, as a child I would "burn" the stuff which left a thick tarry substance that cooled to a hard shape. I'd melt to end of arrows to make arrow tips - this was when I was 6 or 8 yrs old shooting homemade self bows (didn't know the term "self bow" then, just though of it as a "wooden bow).

I suspect it would work good - very light, and might would blow out the barrel before getting melted good. AND - in 60 yrs it may well have changed a LOTS on composition.

Ken H>

Ken

[MBTcustom]

No. The cat hair opened up my groups quite a bit actually. And boy was Fluffy ticked off.

150961

Well played.

[Walter Laich]

Interesting post. Do you have any idea of what the composition of the floral foam is? I guess I always assumed it was a plastic composition of some type - you say it goes to "dust". Offhand, I wold have thought it would either vaporize (if it was a plastic?) or perhaps have given a problem with residue.

I know it compresses fairly easy between your thumb and finger. I'm just wondering how it wold work to take up space in a 45 Colt casing with BP to use a reduced charge. If you loaded a casing, used a compression stem on the powder and then inserted the wad - seems like seating the boolit would compress the foam and you'd have no airspace?

Food for thought anyway.

I've used this in 45-70 cases when I downloaded them to my CAS 45 Colt loads; gave me a plinking load for my rolling block--fun to shot and no recoil. Powder was Red Dot.
I also have used it with APP to take up space in 45 Colt cartridges--fine here, too

I'm of the age where recoil is not something that proves how much of a man you are rather it can end shooting for good

[Ola]

I've never thought about using floral foam as a wad. I have only made some BP blanks with it. In blanks it works like a charm. Very easy and fast to assemble. Very safe because there is practically nothing flying out of the barrel.

[blackthorn]

To those of you sing floral foam: Are you using it as a Wad? Or are you using it as Filler? My concept of a Wad is where the material used is pushed down onto the powder, leaving a gap between the top of the Wad and the base of the seated bullet! To me, Filler "gently" fills all of the empty space between the powder and the base of the bullet! I never use "Wads" because everything I have read indicates by doing so I risk "ringing" my barrel. In many posts it seems that a lot of folk freely interchange the two terms and I find that quite confusing, because I think there is a very distinct difference between a Wad and Filler.

[Irascible]

KenH - this is the floral foam used in a vase with water. There is another used dry as in wreaths.

Blackthorn - this is used as a wad not as filler. Total thickness is about 1/16". I would not use anything as a wad, except this floral foam, when seated against the powder with a bullet seated in a case using smokeless powder.

[JSnover]

In my case, the foam was compressed when the boolit was seated. The stuff was so easy to work with, I stopped using the 1/8" cork and just went with 1/4" foam over the powder.

[Geezer in NH]

I will stick with a Veg fiber wad instead of a petro polymer melting wad.

Muzzleloaders are the cheapest folks ever it seems they have multiplied into cartridges.

[Irascible]

How did muzzle loaders and black powder creep into this thread?