Alloy questions for hunting bullets

[oscarflytyer]

I am just getting started casting bullets to hunt out of my lever guns, as well as possibly a 308 and 30-06. RNFP or RN bullets. All bullets will wear gas checks. Small southern deer to 100 yds. Thanx

For 30-30/32 WS/35 Remington. Velocity 1800-2100 fps. I want some expansion, but not for the bullet to break up.

What BHN/hardness are you using here? I was originally looking at 15 BHN, but little more reading suggest closer to 13 BHN. Your experience?

What percentage of Antimony in your bullet? Read that anything above 6% makes it too brittle.

For the 308/30-06. Velocity to 2400 fps. Same questions as above. 15 BHN here due to increased velocity?

And last, for 45-70. 350 grn bullet with a very big flat point/meplate. Also GC. Velocity 1400-1650 fps.

[OnHoPr]

Your are in the right ball parks, but it depends on if they have micro groove barrels or not. It matters if you are using a fast powder or slow powder as well and the fit of the boolit to the lead and bore.

[oscarflytyer]

All Marlins are MG bbls - 30-30, 35 and 45-70. Others are std bbls. Def aware of the .002" oversize for MGs. And so far, all slow powders, rifle powders. Not shooting the Unique/2400/fast pistol powders. May shoot the faster powders to plink with and if do, will prob just use my normal 12 BHN WW + 2% I use in big bore revolvers.

[Wolfer]

I started shooting cast in rifles using the same alloy I used in my 45 colt and 44 spl. Bhn of 10
Started with 4895 but accuracy was pretty poor. I believe too slow a powder for the soft alloy.By the time I got enough to burn right I had exceeded my alloy' strength.

Went to the Ed Harris load of 16 gr of 2400. Accuracy was very good. Depending on the gun I worked up until accuracy started falling off. Usually around 1800 fps or a little below.

Ive shot around 10 deer and coyotes with these slow/ soft loads and don't see any reason to change.

In my faster twist stuff/ 7mm and 8mm Mauser I can go up in the high 1800s with 4759 or 5744 as opposed to 1700 with 2400.

My 336 micro grove runs 1700 with 17 gr of 2400 and 311041, very accurate and very deadly

20 gr in my 30-06 and 24 gr in my 338 win mag. 1800 fps

[MT Chambers]

Wherever possible, I would go for the widest flatpoint, heaviest, accurate bullet, at the same time you will be lowering your velocity and providing more consistent expansion and penetration, this is based on your bullets being BHN 13 or so.

[bangerjim]

All my rifle boolits (223 & 30) are cast at ~14-15 and then PC'd. PC allows softer lead, no leading (if fit is right already) , and not grease smoke when shooting.

14-15 is plenty hard enough. I use GC's on sonic loads.

I do not hunt anything other than those illusive paper tigers and roaming herds of water bottles, but get excellent accuracy with my boolits at the ranges.

[oscarflytyer]

I started shooting cast in rifles using the same alloy I used in my 45 colt and 44 spl. Bhn of 10
Started with 4895 but accuracy was pretty poor. I believe too slow a powder for the soft alloy.By the time I got enough to burn right I had exceeded my alloy' strength.

Went to the Ed Harris load of 16 gr of 2400. Accuracy was very good. Depending on the gun I worked up until accuracy started falling off. Usually around 1800 fps or a little below.

Ive shot around 10 deer and coyotes with these slow/ soft loads and don't see any reason to change.

In my faster twist stuff/ 7mm and 8mm Mauser I can go up in the high 1800s with 4759 or 5744 as opposed to 1700 with 2400.

My 336 micro grove runs 1700 with 17 gr of 2400 and 311041, very accurate and very deadly

20 gr in my 30-06 and 24 gr in my 338 win mag. 1800 fps

Been shooting some others bullets in 30-30 and 35 Rem in the ~1800 range with good results accuracy wise. Now concerned about terminal performance on game. Thanx

[oscarflytyer]

Wherever possible, I would go for the widest flatpoint, heaviest, accurate bullet, at the same time you will be lowering your velocity and providing more consistent expansion and penetration, this is based on your bullets being BHN 13 or so.

Was leaning to 15 BHN, then re-read some of Fryxell's stuff, and seems he is around 13 BHN. Figure 1800-2200 fps and 13-14 BHN should be good. Thanx

[jhalcott]

I have used COWW as a hunting alloy for years with great success. If faster velocity is wanted, I add tin or linotype to get 15/16bhn. I use 311041 or 311291molds a lot,but others work as well. I test for accuracy and penetration at the longest distance I plan on shooting game. Wet pack is my usual testing media.
These are for rifle loads.

[oscarflytyer]

I have used COWW as a hunting alloy for years with great success. If faster velocity is wanted, I add tin or linotype to get 15/16bhn. I use 311041 or 311291molds a lot,but others work as well. I test for accuracy and penetration at the longest distance I plan on shooting game. Wet pack is my usual testing media.
These are for rifle loads.

Thanx jhalcott - exactly what I was looking for. I have a chrono on the way, so I will be able to determine whether I go with a 13 BHN (WW + 2% tin) for slower velocity or 15 BHN for higher. Appreciate the feedback.

[Larry Gibson]

I've shot numerous big game with all those cartridges using cast bullets. In the 30 cals I've settled on a Lyman 311041 and in the .35 Rem the 35-200-FN is the cast bullet of choice. I long ago settled on an alloy consisting of COWWs + 2% tin and then mixed at 50/50 with lead. I let the bullets AC for a minimum of 10 days. The 311041s are sized at .311 and the 35-200-FN at .360 with both being basically "as cast" with little sizing. Hornady GCs are used with a NRA 50/50 or 2500+ Lube. The 311041 is a HP mould and the 35-200-FN is HP'd with a Forster 1/8" HP tool. The HPs are 3/16: deep. I push these at 2000 - 2200 fps and clean the barrel every 7 or 8 rounds or so to maintain best accuracy. These bullets will hold 2 moa or less out to 200 yards which is my own max range. Expansion from muzzle to 200 yards is excellent w/o bullet breakup and penetration on deer has been 99% through and through. For practice and zero just cast the same bullets with a COWW +2 % tin alloy and you can shoot those all day long w/o cleaning the barrel. In the smaller capacity cases with 12" twist or slower barrels I use 4895 or Varget. For the larger cartridges with 10 or 12" twist barrels I use a slower powder, generally AA4350, RL19 or H4831SC.


Here's a West Texas buck I shot with my 35 Rem and the above alloyed 35-200-FN. Shot was a little over 90 yards away. Bullet performance was excellent.

Larry Gibson

150736150735

[oscarflytyer]

Thanx Larry. You are a lot softer than I am looking at. Will look at your mix.

[dragon813gt]

I don't bother w/ BHN. I've settled on 96/2/2 and will either air cool, water drop or heat treat depending on the application. That alloy water dropped is typically what I use for hunting w/ a 35 Remington and 357.

[Cowboy_Dan]

I just did something of an alloy test at the range yesterday. The results won't be as relevant to the OP because it was a Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum, but I was pleased enough with them to share. Loaded as follows:

Mixed brass; CCI standard primer; book max load of 800x (I'd have to look it up again for specifics, Lyman Cast #4); RCBS 44-240 SWC, 50/50 COWW/Pure, sized .430, Lyman Alox (NRA 50/50?), and Horniday gas check. I know I really don't need the check but I'm using it anyway.

Tiring through 5 gallon jugs sent 2 flying, exploded the next 2, and exploded the front half of the last. Bullet recovered after also traveling through cardboard, then plywood, then OSB. It was about an inch deep in the berm, nose appears gone, but the front driving band mics at .462. Other test sent one through 1 jug to check for expansion by the hole in the cardboard. Bullet hit entered after being somewhat deflected by the handle and passed through the cardboard sideways. Hole is .435 across. Bullet was not located. I think this should do fine for Midwest whitetail.

[Cornbread]

Cowboy_Dan are you water dropping those or are they air cooled? I use 50/50 (COWW/Range lead that is 98% pure) for a deer hunting bullet in 45 Colt at Ruger only levels and one of my 45-70s but I don't water drop them.

[white eagle]

44 mag handgun I use isotype 3/1 that is isotope core lead mixed with linotype and water drop that
for my 35 cal and 30 cal rifle I use 16/1 pb/sn
for my 45-70 I use 25/1 pb/sn
the majority of my Boolits have a pretty good sized meplat
I hp some of the smaller cals like Larry does

[Cowboy_Dan]

Cornbread, I have only air cooled at this point, but I've only been casting for a few months and haven't found need to water drop yet. Maybe when I decide to chase higher velocity in my Mosin, but my casting skills aren't up to that challenge yet.