Adventures with 2 part boolits.

[44man]

I have been fooling with all kinds of dippers and even the big one I made from brass. I have not been happy to this point. Decent but not quite right.
Since some of my revolvers kill deer better with a softer nose, I can't quit.
I decided to just use my LBT soft nose pot and made a pile of boolits that are almost seamless. Why I thought I could do better is a mystery.
I just let the nose set until I can tip the mold for my ladle. I make the lead hotter and hold the ladle twice as long, tight to the plate. Boolits look as good as one alloy.
A dipper will sometimes splash lead on the drive bands and set, making a wrinkle while Veral's pot drops the lead to the nose only.

[Digital Dan]

Not to argue against your exercise, but there is a better way to produce quality bullets of two alloys. Takes two moulds and a hammer swage. The methodology has been producing match grade bullets since the last quarter of the 19th Century.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l72/lpletch/Black%20Powder%20Mag/Blackpowder%20Slug%20Guns/IMG_2714.jpg

[44man]

But Dan, mine are revolver boolits and I need the GG's.

[leadman]

Too bad Veral no longer makes the pot. I have had some success casting boolits of soft lead then using a hacksaw to cut what I want off the nose. I put this in the mold and the mold in the top of the pot to melt. Then add the harder lead. Takes alot of time to do it this way.

I suppose one could buy 2 molds of the same boolits and machine the top of one to cast the nose section only. Place this in the other mold and heat it up, then cast the body.

[lobogunleather]

Lyman used to offer a mold set to produce the nose and body sections separately, then assemble using epoxy cement. I recall a number of write-ups on these back in the 1970's to 1980's. Might be worth a Google search or two, could be something available for sale or NOS products with some of the suppliers.

[44man]

I also tried the heat and melt again and it is so slow!
The hard lead seems to melt into the soft nose if the ladle is held long enough. Some have a small line but it does not hurt anything.

[outdoorfan]

Jim, it seems to me that it would be easier for you to cast your boolits out of 50/50 or 65/35 ww/soft, water-dropping them like you normally do; then set the boolits in water up to the crimp groove (or a little above), and then hit the noses with a torch.

[Digital Dan]

But Dan, mine are revolver boolits and I need the GG's.

Some years back I set about loading a Ruger Redhawk with 300 grain paper patch, smooth sided as they get. Fella that owned that one was a pig shooter and begged me for a few boxes before I moved. They were swagged pure lead, sized .422", patched with 9# onionskin over a max load of L'il Gun. 50/50 beeswax/Vaseline wiped on the patch prior to seating the bullet. Bullet is a flat base, .250" flat on the nose.

They shoot fairly well from my rifle too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/627b4656-cd5c-45f5-a12c-e336e1f16dcd_zpsi3ucunrq.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/627b4656-cd5c-45f5-a12c-e336e1f16dcd_zpsi3ucunrq.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/photo%202%202_zps2588rqcx.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/photo%202%202_zps2588rqcx.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/.44%20paper%20patch_zpsjwzhypxx.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/.44%20paper%20patch_zpsjwzhypxx.jpg.html)

Easier than two piece bullets but not match grade. Still, if inclined to shoot 2 piece bullets for field work I'd go the patched route. Stuff out of my carbine runs right on the edge of 1600 fps at the muzzle. Dunno about the Redhawk, never put it over the Chrony.

FWIW, look at the info on the target. The loads were assembled in 2002 and shot in 2011 prior to a successful deer hunt up in Mississippi.

[jhalcott]

I do not worry about pretty! If the bullets do their job with reasonable accuracy, that's all I ask. I use Lee bottom pour pots.. One for the hard alloy and one for the softer nose alloy. I have several small ladles for different caliber.

[44man]

I can't get softer to shoot. Too many fliers.
Paper patch means a new mold or molds and a lot more work. I also sold my boolit swage stuff 60 years ago.149924 This is my boolit, 330 gr at 50 yards. Cast from WW metal, water dropped to 20-22 BHN.
Boolit is .430" from .4324" throats and .430" groove.

[Shuz]

Lyman used to offer a mold set to produce the nose and body sections separately, then assemble using epoxy cement. I recall a number of write-ups on these back in the 1970's to 1980's. Might be worth a Google search or two, could be something available for sale or NOS products with some of the suppliers.

In .44 cal the 2 part Lyman mould set you are referring to is: 429625. The nose part has the same profile as 429421 and ends up with the nose and a nice little tail, that when cast of pure lead and then placed as a cold part in an up to casting temp mould such as 429421, or 429244, or 429650,(which have the same basic nose profile) and then filled with your regular harder alloy, gives a beautiful and uniform two part boolit. The trick is finding a Lyman 2 part mold! In 38 caliber the designation is 358624, and .45 cal is 452626.
IMHO the Lyman 2 part mould product was a good idea that failed in execution, because no epoxy could hold the nose in the bases due to recoil. I believe that is why they took these off the market. My idea of dropping a pure lead nose into an up to temp mold works really well because the tail of the nose part is surrounded by hot metal poured on top of it, thus binding the two together.

[44man]

Yeah, glue was not that good. It is a good idea. Heat works better.
I loaded today and am all set for deer season, Made JRH's and .44's for my friend, he is going to use my .44 this season.
I never used anything but hard in the .44 for deer but wanted to give him an advantage with the softer nose. I can't wait to see results.
I don't make the entire nose soft, only about half and they are not real soft with 3# of pure, 1# of WW and a touch of tin. BHN on the nose is about 8-1/2.
Now the reason only half is to have the hard part of the ogive hit the cone. Method to my madness!

[outdoorfan]

I can't get softer to shoot. Too many fliers.
Paper patch means a new mold or molds and a lot more work. I also sold my boolit swage stuff 60 years ago.149924 This is my boolit, 330 gr at 50 yards. Cast from WW metal, water dropped to 20-22 BHN.
Boolit is .430" from .4324" throats and .430" groove.


So, your boolits are coming out to 20-22 bhn, and this is ww metal? Then I presume the alloy you are using is "watered down" considerably of antimony.

When I mix ww/soft 50/50 and water drop, I get 20-22 bhn. Air-cooled I get 8.5-9 bhn. Your method is fine. I'm just saying that you can save yourself some hassle with the torch-anneal method and still get the same results.

Just saying...

[44man]

I never got that hard and even 50-50 boolits I was sent only reached 18 after oven hardening. My weights were collected many years ago so I don't know.

[outdoorfan]

I don't know what your bhn measuring process is. I use the Lee tool. My results are in line with established accepted bhn hardness levels of clip-on ww metal & 50/50 ww/soft. I do realize that with all the mixing and remixing of ww's across the country results can vary by region. So, whether you're using straight ww's or not is not the issue. Your final bhn is indicating to you what the approximate antimony content is of them metal that you are using. If you're getting 20-22 bhn after water-dropping, then your alloy is watered down, assuming that you are quenching fairly quickly after pouring and opening the mold.

You would be getting 25+ bhn if your metal was at the true 3-4% antimony levels of supposedly typical ww metal.


My point is that the alloy that you're already using with your already established process of waterdropping would probably make excellent torch-anneal fodder.:bigsmyl2:

[44man]

I use the LBT BHN tool.
I will try some torch anneal after I cast more.
Today when they cycle WW's, they might toss in all the zinc and SO's too.

[outdoorfan]

Today when they cycle WW's, they might toss in all the zinc and SO's too.


Right. Fortunately, I haven't had that problem...yet. My coww's typically heat treat to 30+ bhn & casts great with a little tin added.