Even dumb guys can learn

[Vern Humphrey]

I'm on a quest to develop a reloadable .22 LR, using the .22 Hornet. From what I read, I should be able to duplicate .22 WMR velocities using cast bullets and Hodgdon's Li'l Gun.

I got a .22 caliber mould from NOE, a .45 grain flat nose, plain base bullet. My intentions are to get a Pat Marlin gas check maker using coke can metal later. But for now, I wanted to cast 150 good bullets and sort them. The mould is a 4-cavity, so I figured this wouldn't take long.

Wrong! The little sprue holes are so small that if you pour too slowly (I'm using a bottom pour pot) it clogs the sprues. If you pour too fast, it overflows and clogs the next sprue. I was getting one good bullet per pour!

Then I figured it out, "Fool! Let gravity work for you!" I started sliding the mould under the spout and lifting up on the mould handles slightly, and simply lifting the valve release as the first sprue hole came into alignment. This produced a mess of lead covering the sprue plate, but every cavity was filled out and I was casting them as fast as I could cut the sprues and drop the bullets.

[Tatume]

If molten lead is congealing and clogging your sprue holes I suspect your mold or your sprue plate (probably both) is too cold.

[runfiverun]

yep I can cast with a fairly cold mold but the sprue plate has to be kept hot.

[Gunslinger1911]

I got that same NOE mould recently for 22 TCM and Hornet.
I too was surprised it cast great with a gravity pour. But, dang, it's hard to keep the mould hot !
4 little bitty boolits, that monster aluminum mould dumping heat.
Yup; pour, cut, dump. Repeat indefinitely. Pot doesn't go down very fast either !
Other end of the spectrum is a Lee 2 cav for 50 cal, 465g boolit. HUGE slug, little tiny aluminum blocks.
Overheats just by looking at it wrong. lol

[Dale53]

I have had a TC Contender in .22 Hornet and later in .221 Fireball. I used the Lyman 425415. In the Hornet 3.0 grs. of Unique and the .221 used 4.0 grs. of Unique. Either of those would, on demand, shoot ½" groups at fifty yards with a 2 power scope.

They made, with that flat nose, a noticeably better squirrel and other edible small game gun than the .22 rimfire. I had/have a pretty good stash of Linotype so made my bullets from Linotype and used Hornady gas checks (from the bench).

FWIW
Dale53

[Larry Gibson]

I've a bit of experience over the last 40 years with the 22 Hornet shooting cast bullets. I'm betting Li'l Gun isn't going to be the best or probably not even suitable powder to duplicate .22WRM ballistics with using that 45 gr cast bullet. It's just not going to ignite or burn efficiently. The classic Hornet powders such as 2400, 4227, 4759 and 5744 will serve you better if you want accuracy in the 1800 - 2200+ fps range with that bullet. I'm interested to see how the pop can GCs on a PB'd designed bullet work at the higher velocities. Should prove interesting.

Larry Gibson

[OnHoPr]

But, dang, it's hard to keep the mould hot !
4 little bitty boolits, that monster aluminum mould dumping heat.
Yup; pour, cut, dump. Repeat indefinitely. Pot doesn't go down very fast either !
Other end of the spectrum is a Lee 2 cav for 50 cal, 465g boolit. HUGE slug, little tiny aluminum blocks.
Overheats just by looking at it wrong. lol

Yea lol. It does make a difference with the size of the mold and the boolits being made in it doesn't it. I got a single cavity Lee .311 RB that I have to have the pot set on 10 and pour and cut like a banshee just to keep the wrinkles away and good fill. Then that Lee 500 S&W 440 gr that I can sit on the counter and take a sip of coffee and puff waiting for about 30 sec before I cut the sprue, but the pot still goes down on that one pretty fast where as that single cavity 311 RB seems to take hours when you keep adding the sprues. Ouch on the back.

Great avatar. LOL Who is that a baby George Patton?

[jaysouth]

Vern,

It's good to see you posting here. You are a brave man to take on casting/reloading .22 hornet.

My 22 rim fire replacement has been 158 gr. SWC in a .38 or .357 case in a Handi rifle. I can cast and reload cheaper than buying .22 rf. A couple of years ago, my grandson wanted to learn shooting, if you could get 22s then, the price was highway robbery. I refused to play stupid. My 13 year old grandson is learning on a 9mm trojan and the .357 Handi. I guarantee that both have more bragging rights for an adolescent than a .22.

For you that don't know Vern, he is a warrior living the good life in the mountains, on his terms.

[runfiverun]

the faster powders such as red-dot etc should get you into the 22lr velocity's without any drama.
at the 1200 fps zone I'd work without a gas check [especially in the 22 hornet]

[Motor]

OnboPr. Ain't that the truth !!!!! (440gr .501" Lee) Last casting session I noticed a lot of rejects coming out of the bucket. My brother was dropping the 500's into about 4" deep water with a rag on the bottom of the bucket. After going through 4" of water and hitting another boolit laying in the rag the dropped bullets were still soft enough to dent.

After that we added another 4" more water and he let the boolits cool a little longer before dropping them.I actually added material to this mould to create a larger heat sink. It does help but its still hard to keep it in the right temperature range.

Motor

[Gunslinger1911]

OnHoPr - avatar just a pic I found on the net years ago.

A small table fan helps for the Lee 440 if you don't want to wait.
I usually run 3 molds, skip the 440 in the cycle one or twice, depending what the last drop looked like.
Watch your pot go down when running 440 2 cav, 270SAA 4 cav, and a 230 hp 4 cav !

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I'd agree with the people who have suggested that this is a mould temperature problem, and that even at the right temperature, going as small as .22 reduces your chances of casting really good bullets. A NOE mould is a bit much of an investment to turn your back on, but for anybody starting out from scratch I would say like the old Irishman asked for directions, "If I wanted to get there, sir, I wouldn't start out from here." A .25 caliber, or full-length or shortened versions of the .270 Ren (which is the size of bullet the .22 Hornet will grip when fireformed straight), would be an easier route to good results.


149847

I found my .255 Jeffery a very good rimfire equivalent. I made it with a standard .25-20 reamer, shortened at the neck after the forcing cone was cut, and .25-20 dies ground shorter at the bottom. So although you have to buy that reamer, and find a workaround if you want to do it twice, you save on the other things.

[leadman]

There is a centerfire cartridge called 22 CCM, a reloadable version of the 22 WMR. There is info on this on Speciality Pistols website, look for Magnum Mike.
I have loaded for the 22 Hornet with velocities from about 1,200 fps to over 2,700 fps. I have a 22 K-Hornet now and do the same thing.

I second Larry's advice on powders. 2400, 296/110, Lil'Gun, 300MP wc680/1680 are all great for for high velocities but not good for low velocities.
Faster powders like Unique, Red Dot, AA#2, Bullseye, etc. are what you will need. You also may want to change to a pistol primer.
a hot plate to preheat your mold will help you cast boolits much easier.

[leadman]

Duplicate

[NavyVet1959]

If you need to keep your mold from cooling, just pour a larger sprue with those .22 bullets. :)

When I'm casting with the Lee 6-cavity .22 BATOR mold, I suspect that my total sprue weight is more than the total weight of all 6 bullets. :)

[Ballistics in Scotland]

There is a centerfire cartridge called 22 CCM, a reloadable version of the 22 WMR. There is info on this on Speciality Pistols website, look for Magnum Mike.
I have loaded for the 22 Hornet with velocities from about 1,200 fps to over 2,700 fps. I have a 22 K-Hornet now and do the same thing.

I second Larry's advice on powders. 2400, 296/110, Lil'Gun, 300MP wc680/1680 are all great for for high velocities but not good for low velocities.
Faster powders like Unique, Red Dot, AA#2, Bullseye, etc. are what you will need. You also may want to change to a pistol primer.
a hot plate to preheat your mold will help you cast boolits much easier.

The .22 CCM is a hard cartridge to better for the stated purpose. It will give a useful increase in velocity over the rimfire, without being too destructive for small edible or fur-bearing game. A lot of rimfire rifles could be converted for it. I don't know the bullet diameter, and a barrel for .22LR might well need to be lined or replaced. But a small Martini, for example, would be usable with the original extractor.

The trouble is, we haven't seen much of this cartridge in quite a while, and while the cases may well still be available, there is no telling how dependable the supply will be in future years. It wouldn't be the most difficult case in the world to lathe-turn from brass, for moderate pressures, and most likely the Hornet could be sized down by the necessary .024in on each side without weakening the walls too much. But even that would require lathe work on the rim and solid head.

I've got several pounds of never loaded Winchester rimfire cases which I bought for swaging bullet jackets. They appear to have been made for shotshells, since they are of .22LR diameter but rather longer. They would neatly accept a large primer to make them inside primed, with a firm striker impact. You would need to epoxy or crimp in a sort of ring to hold it, though.

[GooseGestapo]

For .22lr equivalent, no need for gc's. Tumble lube, size.225", load over ~2gr of Bullseye for ~1,200fps. Also RedDot, GreenDot.
gaschecked, with 4.2-4.5gr Unique gets 1,900fps; 5.2gr #2400, 2,050; 2,200 w/7.0 SR4759.
Not sure Lil'Gun will do to well, not enough pressure/ resistance. Maybe with Linotype.
you will need to trim all cases, expand w/Lyman M-die, lightly crimp for magazine guns, maybe with Contender/HandyRifle. I use a Lee FCD.
Closer to reloadable.22wrm. More useful than .22lr!