Cowbiy Action Mold for 45Colt in the 1873 Rifle

[robertbank]

I cast bullets for a friend who shoots Cowboy Action. He has a problem with his Uberti 1873 chambered in 45Colt. Cartridges are jamming on entry to the chamber. I have been casting a 260 gr LSWC design from Mountain Molds. He has tried the 230 gr RN designed for the 45 acp with no improvement.

Do any of you have experience casting for the 1873 and what bullet designs seem to function well in your rifle? Is there something he can do to the rifle if it is a common problem with the rifle and some cast bullets?

Take Care

Bob

[runfiverun]

that jam is generally an issue of length.
I'd bet your length is over the saami 1.610

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Case over all length (COL) is critical for proper function in lever actions in general. The 1860-1876 models are particularly sensitive to COL. I always had best luck with 250ish grain boolits with a RNFP profile.

I suspect your 260gr LSWC are hanging up on the sharp shoulder. While his 230gr loads are likely a little to short.

[robertbank]

I am going to forward your comments on to him. I don't load the cartridges just cast for him. Should he stick to 250 - 26- gr bullets are would he have better luck with say 200 gr LSWC. The Cowboys shoot pretty light loads as you guys know.

Thanks for your input I appreciate the help.

Take Care

Bob

[Outpost75]

He needs a bullet similar in shape to the original blackpowder bullets. The Saeco #954 (230 grain) and #955 (255-grain) bullets worked well for me.

Use 4.0 to 4.5 grains of Bullseye in Schofield brass, and 5.5 to 6.5 grains in .45 Colt brass.

149805149806

[Larry Gibson]

I use the Lee 452-200-RF. It comes in the 6 cavity mould so lots of good bullets can be cast quickly. I use range lead + 30% lead and then 2% tin. Bullets cast real well and drop right at .454 which is what I size and lube them to. I use BAC or 50/50 lube. They are excellent with lighter CBA loads but I load them a bit warmer to right at 14,000 psi (measured with Oehler M43 in a Contender barrel) using 7.2 gr Bullseye. That gives right at 950 fps from my 2 Uberti's (Evil Roy model w/4 3/4" barrel & the Artillery model w/5 1/2" barrel. Out of my Uberti M1873 with a 3rd gen lever kit installed they run 1200 fps and feed slicker than the proverbial scum on a Louisiana swamp.......

They are seated and slightly crimped into the crimp groove.

Larry Gibson

[bob208]

rcbs has a mold that is called a .45 cowboy. it is a 225 gr. it has a tapered nose that ends with a flat point. it was made for .45 colt but also does well in .45 acp.

just found it . it is a rcbs .45-225 cav. tp is 552. part number 82081

[runfiverun]

the 225gr size would probably his best bet.
I know the 452664 is too long to feed through my pops 73. [oal about 1.620]
it feeds through my navy arms just fine and the other 92 and 94 type rifles I have tried it in.
if nothing else he could try trimming back a couple of cases and see how that goes for him.
in my 44 mag switching to the leverution brass from hornady was the easiest course for me to follow when using the 429241 with it's long nose.

the cartridge becomes part of the inner workings of a lever gun and it's length and shape will affect how things go.

[doc1876]

my brother has one, and we took it out last weekend, and it functioned perfectly, until I tried some of my revolver loads in it,and found out that they were too long.........
My 44-40 Henry takes my reloads fine, but I did check the length on them while reloading them, as I knew that they were going in a lever gun.

[Ken in Iowa]

All good suggestions.

This past year, I started using an RCBS 45-230-CM. They drop at just .454" and 240 gr with 1-2-97 alloy. Seated to the top groove in standard 45 Colt cases the OAL is 1.570. These feed beautifully in our Rossi 92s.

[cajun shooter]

The 1873 type of rifles(1860,1866) all use a carrier and not a feed ramp as other rifles. If you are having feed problems it's all traced to either a problem with the magazine cutoff or the OAL of the bullets.
I shot the 45 Colt when I first started shooting SASS matches in 2007 until I got wise and used the 44wcf for my BP loads. For those that are recommending the bullets of over 200 grains in weight, they must not shoot in the cowboy matches as it's a game of speed that requires fast shooting. The only way to shoot faster with the 45 Colt is to lessen the recoil which is accomplished by less powder and bullet weight. The top shooters that use the 45 Colt which is few as the best all use the very light 38 spl.loads.
The regular shooters use at least bullets of 200 grains loaded at 1.59 which work well in most all rifles that I've used them in. Accurate molds makes some very good molds for this. If shooting smokeless then RCBS makes a line of good molds that provide the correct profile for good lever action feeding. The bullets that work all have what is called the RNFP style and loaded back from the 1.60 length that is listed in books. My rifles worked well with the 1.59-1.58 length. I think he will be very happy if he tried this weight bullet with the listed length that I posted.
If he is getting excessive blowback all over his cases then annealing the case mouths before loading will also help with using the straight walled 45 Colt case. Later David AKA Fairshake

[osteodoc08]

Noe 454255 is a classic design but he's gonna want powder puff loads for speed. The 200gr options listed are gonna be the ticket to speed and low recoil.

I shoot a bunch of the 454255 in my 45 colts plinking around the range and home.

[runfiverun]

if he wants to be a gamer then 200 is too heavy, he needs to go to 165's.
lee makes a 165gr mold super similar to the one I use for all kinds of stuff in the 45's.
they are super for quiet loads when deer hunting [to take small game with] and are a poof for cowboy shooting, they also work in the 45 acp if you wanna up the powder charge.

[Ken in Iowa]

I certainly agree with runfiverun and Cajun shooter on the SASS speed game. We have a few local CAS fun shooters who prefer the heavy boolits though.

I'm certainly comfortable shooting moderate 240 and 250 gr loads in my long barreled 45 Colt '92. Pistols are another matter.

[Wayne Smith]

If you are going to load for him, and especially cast, you need gun in your hands as you establish the load. Once you have established the load then you can do it remotely.

[robertbank]

Assuming SAECO will ship top Canada we are going to order this morning a 954 bullet illustrated above. The bullet olgive and OAL are the two challenges as folks have pointed out. The 954 bullet would appear to solve both issues. Many thanks to all who have replied the information provided has been most useful.

Take Care

Bob

[cajun shooter]

In my first posting on this matter I was giving information for a general shooter and not a full out "GAMER" as they are known by in the sport of SASS shooting. If you are loading ammo for someone, I assumed that person was not yet caught up in the game to the point that they will do anything to win that plaque or some other small reward. The founders of this game created it to not do the same thing that happens to all gun sports that give cash and other well paying prize lists. It turns into who can pay their way to the top by buying the most expensive guns and gear that may be purchased. Unfortunately the game has advanced and shown that people will do anything to win. They still will spend upwards and over $2000 for a shotgun that has a single trigger for both bbls which is unreal to me.
I did not mean to jump on the box to air anything out but to explain to those who don't shoot SASS what it has evolved into.
They also have groups of persons like myself who rather be authentic and shoot full cases of 2F black powder and grin while the smoke clears.
You may also tell your friend that he can load the 45 Schofield case into his revolvers with lighter bullets and loads if he wishes to lower the recoil and be faster. They will work in most revolvers without any gunsmith work and this was done in the actual use of the 45 Colt revolvers. The 45 Schofield case will hold about 27 grains of BP as opposed to the 45 Colt case that holds about 35 grains today unless it is compressed. The 165 grain bullet that was brought up will fit into this case. I had one 92 rifle that fed them with no problem but that is not common. They do add speed to the revolver stage if he is so inclined. I felt that I needed to offer that as another thing that he may want to look into. Take care David

[robertbank]

Cajun Shooter, John has been shooting CASS for a few years now. His needs are simple. He needed a bullet that will feed reliably in his Uberti rifle chambered in 45Colt. Based on the comments above I have ordered the SAECCO four cavity 954 bullet - I went through Accurate Arms in Pennsylvania. Spoke to a gal whose name is Angel...and she is. She is quite an ambassador for her company and the US. Very nice lady to talk to. John loads for himself, I just cast for him. He is a very good shooter and is competitive by nature. He shoots Uberti rifles chambered in .38/357 as well as .45Colt.

Take Care

Bob

[prs]

I am going to forward your comments on to him. I don't load the cartridges just cast for him. Should he stick to 250 - 26- gr bullets are would he have better luck with say 200 gr LSWC. The Cowboys shoot pretty light loads as you guys know.

Thanks for your input I appreciate the help.

Take Care

Bob

Not all of us shoot mouse pharts. I am partial to full house real black powder behind 250gr boolits. There are other Warthogs as well, not all want shinny bobbles to take home or our names in The Chronicle. ;-)

[robertbank]

Not all of us shoot mouse farts. I am partial to full house real black powder behind 250gr boolits. There are other Warthogs as well, not all want shinny bobbles to take home or our names in The Chronicle. ;-)

Yes but you all like to play "Mr. Dress Up":-D.

Take Care

Bob

[prs]

Hey! I resemble that statement!

prs

[runfiverun]

I have been to some clubs that take offense to you 'shooting up their targets' with 19.3 grs of 2400 behind a 255 gr rnfp. [not my fault they tipped over]
they also don't like it when your boots have been ummm 'used to push cows into the corral'.
which is not what I had done that morning,,,, it was the milking barn.