Cap & ball conical bullet lube.

[Fly]

I,m going to give you guys my thoughts first. Then I would like your thoughts. We all read so many
articles & many folks take them as facts. I do not, as I know many things written are of nothing
but opinion. I just read one by John Fuhring on cap & ball lubes. Much of what he says I think is
correct.

He said the lubes main purpose in to keep BP fouling soft. I must agree with him on that. He goes on
that putting lube in front of the ball in the cylinder servers nothing. He goes on to say it does not
stop chain fires, as they come from the caps. Well I here both side on that & will not take a stand
on that. But I put lube in front of ball to stop fouling.

His thinking the bullet just forces it out the barrel & none gets in the groves.I,m not so sure about that.
I think if it as a lube much like in a internal combustion engine. The rings on a piston do not remove
all the oil from the walls of a cylinder. Maybe most but not all. He says the lube should be behind the
bullet for the lube to get to the walls of the barrel. Well that may be true but most will be blown out the barrel
also. I have lubed my pistol both ways & I can't tell a bit of difference as far as fouling with the same lube.
Anyway here is his write, & let hear what you think. http://www.geojohn.org/BlackPowder/bps3.html

Fly

[Outpost75]

Use Crisco with black powder and Drydene Pyroplex EP grease with Pyrodex.

[Good Cheer]

Well, the lube that goes up front doesn't do a thing for you in keeping the fouling soft except that a little of it does fly around. The amount flying around changes from shot to shot. He's absolutely right about that not being very advantageous.
To really be worth a hoot in the holler on softening up the powder crust you need to have enough moisture bearing lube behind the boolit in a manner that minimizes the effect on the powder charge going bang. And you need it easy to load (to deal with) and to make consistent from shot to shot. Lube impregnated thin wads are the best compromise.
To state the obvious, if you are shooting round ball there is a pretty darn big anulus space around the back end of the round ball that could be used for lube but how to conveniently take advantage of it has vexed many a percussion revolver aficionado.

[Fly]

Ok I hear what you say. But would not the same be true for lube in bullet lube groves? I would think the tail
of the bullet would scrape the lube out the barrel also.

Fly

[pietro]

.

Every C&B revolver that I've owned/shot over the past 45-odd years (about 20, +/-) with Crisco lard filling the chamber mouth after the bullet was seated, keeps the powder fouling (I only use Holy Black) extremely soft, everywhere.

The only (slight)minus I find using Crisco lard is that, melting & sloppily migrating, it gets all over the revolver in the course of shooting/handling after an afternoon's firing session (30-50 shots) - but that cleans up pretty easily.

That said, since the Crisco lard melts rather easily, I don't think I would use it in a gun that was loaded & carried (in warm weather) awhile before firing - lest the liquifying Crisco dampen the powder charge.


.

[swathdiver]

Grease over the ball softens the fouling from the previous shot. A greased wad behind the ball scrapes and softens the fouling on that shot.

Generally, our gun barrels have less fouling when using greased wads compared with grease over the balls. Having said that, greasing over is more fun and we use such a concoction here in Florida that it holds up for each chamber until fired.

[SSGOldfart]

I use greased wads,I hate the mess lard leaves on the pistol btw good read thanks:-?

[El Bango]

I have an old bp booklet put out by T/C and they recommend crisco.

[swathdiver]

In 1855 the Army's recipe was 1 part Beeswax and 3 parts Tallow. In 1861 it changed to 8 parts Beeswax and 1 part Tallow.

We use something different but when the supply runs low will make up some of each and try them out too. Ours doesn't melt off the chambers in the Florida summer or when another chamber is fired. Stays on until fired mostly.

[Petrol & Powder]

I've placed lube over the projectile and behind the projectile with a wad; both methods work to varying degrees but the over the powder wads work far better in my experience.
Placing lube over the bullet eliminates the need to have a wad but as others have said; it's messy, it migrates when hot and it is of questionable value in terms of fouling reduction. I think the real advantage is that placing lube over the ball reduces the number of components needed. I'd rather use a lubed wad.
As for chain fires, I really do not think they are initiated from the front of the cylinder.

One last note, I've had far better results with round balls than conical bullets, YMMV.

[gnoahhh]

I've been messing with BP revolvers for over 30 years now. In general I can't tell much difference in accuracy between greased felt wads under the balls or Crisco smeared over the top. A lot of the time I use both. Belt and suspenders, as it were. I can't remember the last time I had to stop and clean a revolver halfway through a marathon shooting session because of powder fouling. Keeping the exterior wiped down is another story. I credit the Crisco. (Besides, the smell of Crisco reminds me of breakfast cooking.)

As far as it lubing the ball, as the ball lunges down the bore, centrifugal force pulls the Crisco back into the ball/steel interface. Who say's it doesn't act as a bullet lube as well as a fouling softener? After god knows how many shots, I can't remember also ever having a leading problem either.

[pietro]

Besides, the smell of Crisco reminds me of breakfast cooking.





Hmmmmmm - Maybe, if I added some vanilla extract to the Crisco lard, shooting would smell like a fresh batch of chocolate chip cookies !


.

[dondiego]

It has been proven and was repeatable, that chain fires are started mostly from the front of the cylinder by the process of dragging a powder grain in with the ball creating a fuse trail of powder to the main charge. I have loaded all 6 cylinders of my pistol and only capped every other nipple. No chain fires..........as long as there is some type of lube above or below the ball.

[Fly]

I can't say about chain fires for I have heard both sides. I know this after seeing a picture one of these pistols
shot a night, it looks like a huge fire ball in your hand. I lube the front for tree reasons. It is faster, to grease
the front, for chain fire & lubing the barrel. I could be wrong. I have used wads, grease cookies & over the ball
grease. They all seem to work, as to soften fouling.

But I,m one guy, & you are many & that's what makes this discussion very interesting.

Fly

[John Boy]

Gentlemen, though the caliber was not mentioned ... the OP wants to shoot conicals not round balls

Cap & ball conical bullet lube


Thus ... just lube the GG conical as one would normally, put a 1/16" or 1/8th" lubed felt wad behind the bullet base - pull the trigger and have fun.
The issue with conicals is they too have to be shaved when seated to preclude a chain fire

[Petrol & Powder]

I caught the conical part but I still suggest round balls instead.

[bob208]

things I have found out while shooting. the Crisco in front of the bullet gets every where . which is good. as it lubes the cylinder arbor and keeps the cylinder from dragging. if using wads after about 3-4 cylinders the cylinder starts to drag. don't clean the gun just go back to the Crisco in front of the bullet and the cylinder frees up.
the only chain fires I ever had was when caps fell of the nipples.

[carbine]

For 20+ years I used the oxyoke wonderwads and had no issues. Shooting 4- 5 events each requiring a full cylinder.

[bubba.50]

always just smeared grease over the balls & just never thought about it much til now. but after readin' this post & answers so far both sifes of argument make sense so I might start lubin' both sides of the ball:Fire:.

[bubba.50]

sides, not sifes:roll:.

[Fly]

Put that beverage down Charlie. (wink)

Fly

[Petrol & Powder]

Or get another one ;-)

[Good Cheer]

This is the most practical conical design I've come upon.
It's a round ball with an adjustable length cylindrical tail added (tail diameter made to slip into the chamber). Maybe it oughta be called the "roundical".
:???:

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/blocks%20and%20plug%202_zpseby0vyi9.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/blocks%20and%20plug%202_zpseby0vyi9.jpg.html)

[Good Cheer]

Oh, by the way, my percussion revolver lube is LOOB*, same stuff I end up using for minies and flat based lubed lead bullets and where ever else it works.
The percentages on the parts change from time to time and with the end use.
Sometimes I throw in a crayola to try to help my remembering whats whats.

*Lanolin-Olive Oil-Beeswax

[Omnivore]

This is NOT a matter for speculation or opinion. It is rather a matter of testing and results.

Using a lube pill of Gatofeo #1 over the powder and behind the lead, I can fire well over 100 shots with no removal of the cylinder and no added lube, AND wipe the bore afterwards one time, with one dry patch, one direction, and the bore looks for the most part clean. That's with 30 grain charges of Goex 3F. You can see the whole process here (but I've given you the conclusion already);
http://1858remington.com/discuss/index.php?topic=8975.0 (http://1858remington.com/discuss/index.php?topic=8975.0)

If you can do that, you're practice the right fouling mitigation. If not, then do it differently. I'm not saying my method is the only one that works, but it works. I'm not saying that GF1 lube is the only lube that works, but it works.

I'll repeat the same test with any powder, too, no matter how "dirty" it is. It comes down to one thing; are you using enough lube for the fouling characteristics of the powder you're using, such that you're getting zero accumulation of fouling? No? Use more. Does any amount of lube over the ball reduce fouling accumulation to zero, such that you can shoot indefinitely? If yes; change nothing. If no; use lube behind the ball.

After you've fired your 100+ shots with no accumulation of fouling, i.e. the bore looks the same after 100 shots as it did after the first shot, and it wipes clean with one pass, then get back to me. Fuhring made this same point, essentially, though he didn't test to nearly such a high round count. Maybe you find it hard to believe but, as I say, it's only a matter of simple testing. I know it works.

Fuhring, buy the way, did not say that crossfires come from the back. He said the opposite, that he was able to produce, or prevent, a crossfire at will from the front, but could NOT produce one from the rear.

[Omnivore]

Now there are some who will say; "I don't want to fire more than fifty shots in a day. Usually I fire a lot less than that, so what do I care that you can fire over a hundred shots without cleaning and your accuracy is maintained the whole time?"

You'd be missing the point entirely if you said that. It is not a matter of how many shots you're firing in a given day. It's a matter of whether there is fouling accumulating in your bore. If fouling is accumulating in your bore, then your accuracy and/or point of impact is shifting as you go through the day. Also if you're having to stop to wipe and re-lube your cylinder arbor, you could be freed from that. (they go hand-in-hand; if you're using enough lube to prevent fouling accumulation i the bore, and you're blowing the gu down as I describe in the linked thread, you're also keeping the cylinder running).

My 100+ shot test merely proves that I'm getting no accumulation of fouling.