Some questions about 45-70 caliber in Marlin 1895 and Pedersoli Sharps 1874 sauce

[srgfct]

Hi CastBoolit people,
as first a greeting to all of you from Italy.
This is my first post but I’m reading a lot from this site.
I started to melt lead thanks to it.
So I have now some exact ideas about the boolits for caliber starting from .223 to 8 x 57 Mauser. Summarizing: alloy Lyman #2 and gaschecks.
But not at all for caliber 45-70.
I have a Marlin 1895 and a Pedersoli Sharps 1874 Sporting that caliber and I’m in the market for a mould for them. My target range is 100 and 200 meters; I will shoot only to paper targets, at a speed between 1100 to 1600 fps (I’ll take cure of my shoulder) and I will use white powder only.
For these conditions, reading from the site I felt the inclination for these sentences:

1) It seems better the plain base than the gas checked one
2) For the Marlin 1895 it seems better a weight less or equal to 420 gr (1:20 rifling)
3) For the Pedersoli Sharps it could be better one boolit of weight between 420 and 530 gr (1:18 rifling)
4) And at the end, the fundamental question.
For those speeds does which kind of alloy is better ? It seems the 20:1.

Are my feeling rigth about this matter ?
I thank you in advance for all your suggestions.
Sergio

[Gunslinger1911]

Sergio, Let me be the first to welcome you to the site !

I'll follow this, as I have both these rifles also, just bought the Marlin.

[dubber123]

Welcome to the site! I don't have any experience with under 400 grain boolits in the 45-70, but have shot quite a few 400-540+ grain boolits. The Marlin will need to keep to a specific overall length to feed from the magazine. This will somewhat dictate which mold you choose, but I have gotten very good accuracy at 100 yards from a 540 grain boolit in my Marlin, so it is possible. The Sharps will do well with practically any boolit it's fed if it is like mine, and you don't have the concerns about overall length that you do with the Marlin.

You will likely end up using different molds for each, but if you want to start with one, I would suggest a 400-450 grain round flat design, with a nose to crimp length that will function in the lever action. Both should shoot it well. If using a plain based boolit, I have found best accuracy at less than 1,600 fps. Your Lyman #2 alloy will be plenty hard for these velocities, and you could likely go even softer with good results. The 45-70 is a very easy caliber to load for.

Have fun!

[country gent]

As mentioned with the marlin overall length is a factor, for it around 400-450 grns with a broad round nose or heavy flat point should work well. The pedersoli being a single shot isnt as critcal to overall length. My pedersoli likes the lyman 457-125 and the 535 grn postels . Heavy bullets in the sharps should perform well. I normally shoot black powder and a velocity of between 1200-1300 fps.

[Scharfschuetze]

I've loaded what I consider the original Trapdoor equivalent loads for years which are composed of a 405 grain boolit at 1,300 fps for infantry loads and 1,100 fps for carbine duplication loads. The 405 grain boolit has always been accurate and easy to cast. At these velocities there is no need for a gas check and most lubes (including black powder lubes) will work just fine with smokeless powder.

My favorite 405 grain boolits for original Trapdoors as well as Marlin 1895 carbines and rifles are the Lee 405 grain and the Lyman 457193 moulds. I've used powders ranging from fairly fast pistol powders up to 4198 and 4759 with great results.

With the original Trapdoor bores, I cast pretty soft, 1-20 or there abouts. For the Marlin and other modern 45/70 barrels just about any alloy will work just fine for paper punching. You'll find the 45/70 is really pretty easy to load and cast for and accuracy comes pretty easily.

With proper sights with enough elevation adjustment, these loads can all be quite accurate way out past your intended 200 yards.

[longbow]

When I had a Marlin 1895, I tried the Lee 405 gr. flat point and the Lyman 457124 385 gr. round nose. I do not recall if I tried the Lyman 457125 500 gr. round nose in that gun. I preferred the Lyman 457124 to the Lee boolit. It fed and shot very well for me with both smokeless and black powder. I shot mostly smokeless loads and generally at max. or near max. Marlin loads (young and foolish). Recoil was fairly stout with the heavy loads but I never had any leading problems at all and it was a plain base boolit. Nothing wrong with a gas check boolit and, it may be better, but mine were plain base and worked very well for me.For punching paper there is nothing wrong with the round nose boolit but for hunting a reasonable meplat would be nice. I did not hunt with those boolits.Some will say that the round nose boolit in a tube magazine is not safe and certainly a boolit with a small meplat would eliminate any chance of a primer being set off however remote that may be. Just another consideration for the tube magazine. Obviously not a problem with the Sharps.I may have been lucky with my groove diameter and mould as Marlins tend to have generous bores, though I am not sure the .45-70 is as affected as the .44 and .444. In any case my box stock Lyman mould cast well and shot well for me. However, it would be a good idea to slug the bore and make sure the mould you select will cast at least a thou over groove diameter and preferably larger.Since you are not shooting long range the same boolit should also suit the Sharps as long as it casts to suit the groove diameter.Oh, I used mostly straight wheelweights for my casting. No problems at all.Longbow

[Frank V]

sergio
I'd like to welcome you to the forum also.

[WHITETAIL]

Sergio, Welcome to the forum!:drinks:
Yes I do have a 45-70 Cowboy.
I have found out that the 405gr. boolit
works great in that gun.
The powder I use is IMR 4198.
With nickel plated Star-Line brass.:redneck:

[Gunslinger1911]

I played around with the Lee 405g and 510g round / flat a little when I got the Sharps. Haven't done any serious load development yet. That 510g really thumps at both ends !

[W.R.Buchanan]

Sergio: Two boolits that work well in your guns ( I have an 1895 CB also) Are RCBS.45-300FNGC and 45.405 FNGC. They are 300 and 405 gr boolits.

Both of these boolits have the same nose and crimp groove so they will feed from the magazine on Leverguns. They are simply made longer below the crimp groove to change the weight. There is also a.45-500 FNGC if you really want to hurt yourself. These moulds are readily available from RCBS or many retail outlets.

If you are only going to shoot at targets then I would suggest using the 300 gr version as it will produce less recoil than the heavier boolits and will be much easier on your shoulder.

My goto load for these boolits is 25 gr of 5744 powder. it produces about 1300 fps and I can shoot it all day long without getting beat up.

There are many suitable loads for both of these boolits in every reloading manual that has data for Cast Boolits.

I would also suggest installing a decent Recoil Pad on your gun as the Marlins are kind of light weight.

Good Luck and Welcome to the site.

Randy

[srgfct]

Thanks a lot for all your suggestions.
So I'll buy two moulds, one four cavities 405 gr, two plain base and two gas checked, and another four cavities 530 gr, two plus two also.
I'll use preferably 20:1 alloy with alox grease.
Sergio

[Frank V]

Thanks a lot for all your suggestions.
So I'll buy two moulds, one four cavities 405 gr, two plain base and two gas checked, and another four cavities 530 gr, two plus two also.
I'll use preferably 20:1 alloy with alox grease.
Sergio

Wow you are really going to get after it.... Great let us know how you do. I shoot mostly jacketed bullets & prefer 405grs & up. I have used the Lee 405gr hollow base & a NEI 540gr WFP with a gas check both work really well.

[murf205]

Thanks a lot for all your suggestions.
So I'll buy two moulds, one four cavities 405 gr, two plain base and two gas checked, and another four cavities 530 gr, two plus two also.
I'll use preferably 20:1 alloy with alox grease.
Sergio

Welcome to the site brother, there is a lot of help here from the most knowledgeable people. I think you are very close with the 20:1 mixture, but shooting it is the only way to tell. In my 1895 Marlin, I use Carnauba Red lube but you need a heater under the sizer to make it work like it should. It stays on better in warm weather and I have not had any leading problems with it and I have driven some 405gr. boolits 1800fps. You can get it from LsStuff.com and he is a great guy to deal with as well.
The 4 cavity mold that I have had the most success with is from Accurate Molds and mine has 2 cavities that are 460405A and 2 that are 460405D(one gas checked and one plain base). My rifle loves the gas check boolit with 42.5 grs of Accurate 2015 for 1650 fps (26" barrel). Tom at Accurate is another great guy to deal with and his online catalogue is a treasure trove of molds. The quality is great also. You can order Lee 6 cavity handles and they work good AFTER I drilled through the wooden handles and tapped the steel rod inside to 8/32. This will keep them from slipping off when they heat up. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

[murf205]

149500Here's a pic of the handles after I put the screws in them

[fourarmed]

Sergio, you don't say if your Marlin has microgroove rifling. If it does, your bullets need to be big in diameter. I honed out a die to just lube, not size at all. This makes my bullets around .461 inches (11.71mm). They shoot much better than bullets sized to the usual .458.

[DocSavage]

I have a Shiloh Sharps and use 400,500 and 520 gr cast boolits under a charge of IMR 4227 all are accurate and won't beat you up. 400 gr is an RCBS and Saeco blocks the 500 and 520 are Saeco. I have an NEI mold that cast a 500 gr round nose but I've not tried that boolit yet. Welcome to the site and happy casting.