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cbr
04-03-2008, 12:30 PM
I seem to have accumulated a fairly large quantity of powder and primers, and my wife thinks maybe I should get some of it out of my house in case of a fire. I
was thinking of storing some of them in their origional packages, inside of ammo cans, inside an old non-working refrigerator in an old outbuilding, with a couple desicant packs in each can. Would this be a good idea, or would the changing temperatures destroy my valuable supply? How is everyone else storing thier explosive stash?

Maineboy
04-03-2008, 12:57 PM
I have mine stored in weatherproof containers in my garage. They are pretty safe from moisture but get exposed to temperature extremes. It gets as low as -40 and as warm as
+90. So far no problems.

chevyiron420
04-03-2008, 01:30 PM
i just had a phone conversation with alliant about inconsistant loads with my unique powder and he seemed to think that temperature flux. in my shop is the cause. it will get up over 90 in there durring the afternoon, and cool at night durring some months. i have to do something but im not sure yet what it will be. maybe a old fridge will do it??-phil:castmine:

oneokie
04-03-2008, 02:40 PM
In the original containers in an old non-working refigerator, Yes.
In ammo cans, NO
The temperature fluctuations are what degrades powder.

Reloader06
04-03-2008, 03:34 PM
If you have a free powder co. reloading manual they have the specifications for an approved powder magazine. 1" nominal wall with one weak wall. Painted red with the word "Flammable" on each side. I for one would NOT store in ammo cans or an old fridge because if something does go wrong you have a rather large bomb on your hands. My 2 cents

Matt

lathesmith
04-03-2008, 03:52 PM
Temp fluxuations and high humidity are the primary degraders of both powder and primers. The more stable and controlled you keep these two factors, the longer your precious supplies will last. Climate control will ensure these supplies will last for several decades; however, an unusually large stash probably would require a separate building.
lathesmith

AZ-Stew
04-03-2008, 04:12 PM
Storing it in ammo cans is a bad idea. If there is a fire, the can becomes a bomb. No way to release the gas pressure.

Refrigerators with a mechanical latch (REALLY old refrigerators) fall into the same category. Modern refrigerators (the last 30 years or so) with the magnetic strip around the door edges, will allow the door to open with very little pressure inside. No pressure buildup, no explosion.

I keep mine in a WORKING refrigerator in my shop. This keeps the temperature and humidity constant. Living in Arizona, I don't have to worry about the humidity, except for a couple of months during the year, when bringing the cold powder and primers out into the room for use. Keeping the powder container closed until it reaches room temperature prevents condensation in the powder. Primers are kept in a plastic bag until they warm (an hour or so).

Regards,

Stew

454PB
04-03-2008, 04:24 PM
You might tell your wife that the 20 pound propane bottle on your barbeque or that 5 gallon can of gas for the mowers is more dangerous than you powder stash.

My son-in-law is a fireman and he's told me some interesting stories about flammables. When I showed him my hundreds of pounds of powder, he said it's not as bad as some of the big propane bottles he's had to extinguish.

I keep mine in plastic totes and stored in my shop where it is usually around 40 degrees winter....max of 90 degrees in the summer. If I had a fire, and had some time to do it, I could remove the powder in about 2 minutes. My primers are stored in smaller lots and also could be removed quickly.....but I worry about them more than the powder. Primers are a true explosive, rather than a combustible.

cbr
04-03-2008, 10:38 PM
Sounds like maybe I should just keep them hidden inside a closet on a shelf. I would hate to unintentionally make a giant bomb! My old fridge is one that actually latches. I was going to put a padlock on it and use it as a safe. Thanks for the input guys!

oneokie
04-03-2008, 10:47 PM
Excellent idea, just keep the powder and primers in seperate closets.

DLCTEX
04-03-2008, 11:38 PM
I keep my powder and primers in an old working refrigerator with the temp setting turned to it's highest setting. There is no door latch. I have been to house fires as a volunteer fireman where the fire was hot enough to burn all the paint off the outside of the fridge and the door seal melted, gluing the door shut. The next day the food inside was still ok. I recently bought powder that has been in a garage for 25 years and was surp powder when placed there. It is good as new. I bought thousands of primers at an auction that people were afraid ofbecause they had been in a shed for 15 years. For $5 I'm still getting a healthy bang with every pull of the trigger. DALE

Ed Barrett
04-04-2008, 12:08 AM
I keep my powder in the basement. Temp goes from 65 in the summer to 55 in the winter and it's about 30 percent reletive humidity. When I was in the military we had recording temperature sensors that recorded with a pen on a scroll of paper. We worried about temp. more than anything else, if the ammo was kept below 75 degrees it was supposed to last 30 plus years. There was a formula which computed the numbers of days and the exact temp. above 75 and degraded the ammo's usefull life. Perhaps one of the members who is still in the military could post the method they are using now.

HeavyMetal
04-04-2008, 12:22 AM
I to had concerns about safe storage.

I do the frig thing. Old double door magnetic strips, one side for primers one for powder.

Here in L.A. the garage can hit 20 degrees in the winter(O.K. only in the morning) and about 120 in the summer! When I installed the frig I added a small kitchen thermometer in each side so I could check temps.

Current temp remains at 75 degrees as long as I do not Browze with the door open! The insulation keeps this very stable and a good reason to use an old frig if you can get one without a latch.

JeffinNZ
04-04-2008, 04:56 AM
Powder and lead - left.
Rifles - right.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/IMG_0022.jpg

Bret4207
04-04-2008, 06:57 AM
I've stored my powder in a 20mm ammo can. some for nearly 30 years, with no sign of problems. Now it's stored in a dead freezer with my moulds. My primers are stored in 30 cal ammo cans. A dear freezer is about ideal for this type of thing. If you have an old mechanical latch job, just take off the latch on one side and use the stick on magnetic tape if that a big worry for you. Like so many other things these days we over think some situations. The important thing is to keep the powder good and keep the wife happy.

dakotashooter2
04-04-2008, 11:42 AM
JeffinNZ


Those also make good gun safes.

MT Gianni
04-06-2008, 10:43 PM
By far the most dangerous thing that you can put near your house that would be damaging in a fire is the 20 gallons of gasoline that reside in your cars fuel tank. The energy there is amazing compared to smokeless powder designed to be burned under pressure. Take a taablespoon of unique or other fast powder and put it in a can outside and light it and your wife should have no worries after she see's it. Gianni

Alchemist
04-07-2008, 10:10 AM
JeffinNZ

How do the rifles get out of that small opening?? :)

Seriously, that's a neat idea...I'll keep a eye out for old soda machines. Already have power run in to hook up dehumidifiers/lighting.

mike in co
04-07-2008, 02:28 PM
I've stored my powder in a 20mm ammo can. some for nearly 30 years, with no sign of problems. Now it's stored in a dead freezer with my moulds. My primers are stored in 30 cal ammo cans. A dear freezer is about ideal for this type of thing. If you have an old mechanical latch job, just take off the latch on one side and use the stick on magnetic tape if that a big worry for you. Like so many other things these days we over think some situations. The important thing is to keep the powder good and keep the wife happy.

BRET...go read the above posts.....no hard mechanical storage for powder or primers.
open storage is better, soft containers......do not make a bomb out of the safe materials used in our sport.
mike in co

Junior1942
04-07-2008, 03:15 PM
Here in Louisiana if it's not raining it's about to rain. So we have high humidity and swinging temperatures. I store my powder, primers, primed cases, and extra ammo in a WORKING frost free refrigerator's cooling section and freezing section. When I take something out I wrap a towel around it for insulation and let it rest for an hour or so before unwrapping it.

Wayne Smith
04-07-2008, 03:41 PM
Does anyone know the bursting strength of ammo cans? Somehow I doubt that they would be effective bombs. Split wide open, maybe. Explode into shrapnel, I doubt.

Ricochet
04-07-2008, 07:05 PM
One was used (my guess is, filled with Pyrodex) as a bomb in front of a New York City military recruiting office recently. Security camera showed it bursting with a flash and big white smoke cloud. Didn't look like it did a lot more than break the office's front window to me.

I can't imagine it'd hold much more than 100 PSI or something on that order.

AZ-Stew
04-08-2008, 01:23 AM
The SAAMI approved storage box is, as noted in Post #5 to this thread, a 1" thick wood box with a weak side. The wood provides some insulation from a fire external to the box, and the weak side releases pressure immediately in case the powder inside ignites.

This is the reason the containers powder is packed in are relatively weak. They immediately release pressure if the powder inside ignites. Plastic is becoming the common "powder can" material, but in the past there have been containers with cardboard bodies and metal end caps, flimsy quart-paint-can type containers, and probably a couple of others that don't come to mind immediately. The whole point is that they are very weak containers that immediately release pressure in case of accidental ignition of the contents. They're designed that way.

This cannot be said of either military ammo cans or latch-door refrigerators. Personally, I'd prefer to be several blocks from an ammo can with even a single pound of powder inside, or an old frige with more than 5 pounds of powder inside should the powder inside ignite.

Regards,

Stew

Rayber
04-08-2008, 03:16 AM
Lots of good replys. Real answers with years of real experiences. I'll add mine.
1st the comments about gasoline and propane were right on. If you don't already know OSHA is trying to make our gun powder an explosive. This is not the place for a discussion on that. 5 gallons of gasoline will do a H_ll of a lot more damage then 10lbs of our powder. It you want to outlaw explosives, out law gasoline.

I started reloading on Treasure Island in the middle of the San Francisco Bay in 1975. I packed my powder and primers in ammo cans. They were moved to Pennsylvania, Denver,CO, to Hawaii, and then back to Pennsylvania and finally to the foothills of VA. in '82. My son asked me to help him reload some .270's last year and I pulled everything out of the same ammo cans 32 years later. Using the primers and H4064 from 1975 he is shooting consistent 1" 100 yd groups with a basically unstable 90gr sierra .270 bullet. The 130gr Sierra boat tails that I loaded in 75 are still shooting 1 1/2" groups from a sitting position....not bench rest. My grandson killed his first deer with a 32 year old 8mm handload. I killed my first deer in VA with one of the stored 130gr .270's. ( We test fired many rounds before hunting with them)
Screw the cap on tight and put it in an ammo can. You don't have to worry about temp , humidity, altitude or anything...... It stores very well. All the stories of decay are bull as far as I'm concerned. My house gun is loaded with 32 year old red line toaster .45s with pure lead 1/2 jacketed Herters swagged 210gr SWC . Do I trust them...H_ll yes. A lot more then factory.
I have never had a miss fire from a handload at any age. I have had factory misfires and my son has also. I trust ME a lot more then I do a factory worker or a machine.
Ray

AZ-Stew has to be a Navy Chief......There is always a Quack in the crowd. HM1 ret 63-83 (Missed the hat because of my NEC.)
RN now.

Junior1942
04-08-2008, 08:05 AM
>All the stories of decay are bull as far as I'm concerned.

Nope, not mine. In 1989 I moved in with my dad in his grandmother's old house here in high temp, high humidity north Louisiana. I stored maybe 25 lbs of powder and 10,000 primers in the unheated, unairconditioned front bedroom. I went off to college, then returned in 1998.

When I started reloading again, all the powder was ruined, smelling like urine, etc. The primers gave misfires. A close look at the trays of primers showed many with verdigis-like corrosion on their edges. A close look at the business end of the primers showed cancer-like holes eaten into the paper behind the anvils of many primers. I junked it all.

When I replaced it all, it went in the spare refrigerator where it stays at a constant low temp and low humidity. Some of it has been in the refrigerator for 10 years now and looks and performs like new. Like mentioned previously, you can't pull a container out and immediately open it--condensation will cover the inside as well as the outside. That's why I wrap the containers in an old towel and let them sit for an hour or two.

725
04-08-2008, 08:14 AM
I served in a police unit that fielded large quanities of pistol, rifle, shotgun, and black powder launcher rounds everyday. We drove our "bread truck" sized police van to every emergency call, rescue call, and service call we got. A "your'e in trouble, call the police -- if the police are in trouble, they called me" kind of unit. One day the The CP was T-boned in a major accident and the whole mess caught on fire. The police operator was going the wrong way on a one way street, in pursuit of some miscreant, but that's another story. Both vehicles were a total loss mainly because of the extensive fire (Oh yeah, we also carried gasoline, tear gas, and I'm sure some other postal service non-friendly stuff). All the on-board gas and tear gas burned. Both vehicle fuel tanks burned. The back pack gas cutting torch didn't blow.(wow) All the black powder launcher rounds burned/blew but were contained in their military ammo storage cans. Much of the rifle (.223 and .243), revolver (.38), and shotgun (12 ga 7 1/2 shot, 00 buck, slug, modi-pack) burned & blew in their various military ammo storage cans. Not one can was violated. The cans contained every single round as they were cooked off. The fire department made a tactical decision not to approach the burning mess for the well founded fear of what was was on fire vs. what would be lost. Good choice I thought. The city would give us another truck. By the way, I store all my ammo in military cans.

dakotashooter2
04-08-2008, 09:54 AM
Here ar a couple of other options. Construct several small storage areas lined with multible layers of fire coded gypsum. 3 layers of 5/8 should give you at least
1 1/2 hours of protection depending on what type of door one could fashion. Even if it was a box you could set over the top of the supplies it should work. If your storage area is reasonably close to a water line you could intall some residential sprinkler heads. Or find an old fire resistant file cabinet. I know some guys that even use these as gun safes (handguns). Sometimes you can find them at Govt. auctions for a decent price.