Newbie - Confused on OAL on 7.62x54r gallery loads - W231 powder

[rmcelwee]

OK, I have been waiting around for Alliant 2400 powder (just cannot find it anywhere) to do some gallery loads on 7.62x54r but recently found that many people were using W231 instead. Since I have 8# of it sitting here I decided to load some rounds tonight. I have a couple hundred C312-155-r2 that I powder coated and was ready for reloading. My data shows that my OAL should be 3.037 but when I press my rounds so that the only grease groove is inside the brass I am all the way down to around 2.800. It seems to me that OAL would be critical for accuracy on these rounds. I know I am not going to be sub MOA on the sawed off Mosin (I cut 12" off it) but I still want to have some control of the bullet. So, a few questions:

Do I just disregard the OAL (it is going to be 1/4" short) when making cast boolit rounds?

How far should I be seating the boolit into the brass?

I am having a hard time getting my rounds to be perfectly straight (boolits are a little crooked). Problem?

Do people who load short pistol projectiles into rifle cases (regular loads or gallery loads) have any accuracy at all or are they just wanting to hear the rifle go bang?

In general, I just need help understanding what I am getting into here.

Some pictures/info can be found on my website here (of course, it has not been completed) for those of you who want to follow the progress:
http://www.lightweightmiata.com/guns/gallery/


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[Motor]

I use the Lee 160gr 2R TL. My OAL is 2.780"

These rifles have such deep throats that you simply can not load your OAL to get anywhere near the lands. I have heard that changing your OAL can have an effect on accuracy but personally have not found it necessary to experiment with.

My j-word loads typically jump around .100" before contacting the rifling and accuracy is still as good as any factory deer rifle. Better than some I dare say.

My cast boolits are accurate as well. I use Bullseye for my sub-sonic loads and either Unique or 2400 for super sonic.

Motor

[rmcelwee]

Thanks!

I ended up making 10 rounds each of 5gr, 6,gr, 7gr, and 8 gr. I have two short Mosins (one with iron sights and one with a scout scope) and will use the scout rifle for testing. Curious - What range do you shoot your light rounds? I will be going to a 100 yrd range this morning.


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[Motor]

My Bullseye load shoots 1075f/s. It is no tack driver but it's accurate enough to have meaningful 50 yard competition using a 8" pistol swinger (steel target)

When I had my scout scope on our first M39 I shot 5, 4 shot groups at 50 yards. None were over 2" and the best was just under an inch.

The 1850f/s gas checked Unique load shot less than an inch at 50 yards. Clay pigeons at 100 are easy.Clay pigeons at 200yard are very doable with it.

I just started using powder coating and have not tried it yet with the sub-sonic load. One reason is I normally don't size them. If I powder coat them they will be even bigger and I don't have a .312" size die. They may be OK in my M39s sized .311" (which I have) but I like them on the big side especially since they are tumble lube type boolits.

Motor

[GhostHawk]

My pair of Mosin's are typical Russian Girls. They like it Big and LONG.
I'm talking Boolits now.

I prefer the lee .312 185 gas check design as it is longer. As long as they slip into and out of the magazine I don't fuss too much about them.

[mac60]

OK, I have been waiting around for Alliant 2400 powder (just cannot find it anywhere) to do some gallery loads on 7.62x54r but recently found that many people were using W231 instead. Since I have 8# of it sitting here I decided to load some rounds tonight. I have a couple hundred C312-155-r2 that I powder coated and was ready for reloading. My data shows that my OAL should be 3.037 but when I press my rounds so that the only grease groove is inside the brass I am all the way down to around 2.800. It seems to me that OAL would be critical for accuracy on these rounds. I know I am not going to be sub MOA on the sawed off Mosin (I cut 12" off it) but I still want to have some control of the bullet. So, a few questions:

Do I just disregard the OAL (it is going to be 1/4" short) when making cast boolit rounds?
I would say yes.

How far should I be seating the boolit into the brass?
Personally, I try to avoid seating the base of the boolit below the neck (though many do it and don't have a problem with it).

I am having a hard time getting my rounds to be perfectly straight (boolits are a little crooked). Problem?
Problem? - Generally yes.

Do people who load short pistol projectiles into rifle cases (regular loads or gallery loads) have any accuracy at all or are they just wanting to hear the rifle go bang?
Oh no. It's very possible to get a good degree of accuracy.

In general, I just need help understanding what I am getting into here.

Some pictures/info can be found on my website here (of course, it has not been completed) for those of you who want to follow the progress:
http://www.lightweightmiata.com/guns/gallery/


148481

I have 3 Mosin rifles. 1 of them has a nice bore (the other 2 not so much). I shoot 2 loads through it. The Lee .312 160 gr. TL unsized at .3135 and lubed with straight lla over 16 gr. 2400 oal 2.810" (50 yd. target - rested)
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Lee .311 93 gr. also unsized and lubed with lla over a .3 cc scoop of bullseye. (offhand at 25 yds.)
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That second load is more of what I would call a "gallery load" - it's great fun!

[rmcelwee]

I took 40 rounds with me today. It was pretty much a waste as far as accuracy was concerned. The last 6 rounds I fired were at 15 yards and I had some very small success with 3" groups of 3 rounds. I don't know if fine tuning the loads will help but I will try. I'll probably take my Mosin PU sniper with me next time since I know it is fairly accurate.

FWIW, it was nice not having my shoulder blown out while shooting the short Mosin. A completely different experience than what I am used to.

[Jack Stanley]

Perhaps your could try the largest bullet diameter that will slip fit snugly into a fired case .

Jack

[GhostHawk]

I will say that I got no accuracy better than 5 gallon bucket sized groups at 50 yards until I went to boolits cast and sized at .314. Once I did that they tightened up to 2-3" at 50.

[Boolseye]

I'm enjoying this thread. That Lee TL312-160 2R is very accurate. Another great gallery load (courtesy of Larry Gibson) is the Lee TL314-90SWC over 3.2 grains of BE. I set my elevation at 200m in my carbine and it hits right on. I size everything to .314" or above for those girls.

[rmcelwee]

The reason I started reloading a year ago was that I had horrible accuracy with a use AR that I purchased off the street. I tried everything and it ended up just being a blown out barrel. No matter what I loaded it was never going to be accurate. I have not shot that Mosin scout rifle much and I cannot say that it was ever very accurate. So, I am going to be swapping rifles (I have 40+ Mosins so it shouldn't be hard to find a replacement) and trying again. It did seem like the boolits with 6 grains of W231 shot the best so I will do some loading and head back to the range soon. It might take a while before I report on this again due to work and vacations but I will post some updates as soon as I can.

[rmcelwee]

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[CHeatermk3]

Quote: Jack stanley said

"Perhaps your could try the largest bullet diameter that will slip fit snugly into a fired case ."

That's what I do and it works for me...I just cast them (Lyman314299) Lube or GC-lube Then slip them into the fired case and apply a very slight Lee factory crimp-just enough to keep the boolit from falling out or being pushed back into the case. I have enough lube on the shank of the boolit to keep it in the neck of the case so I can apply the crimp.

[rmcelwee]

The problem is that I only have one mould and a supply of boolits to try. I don't think I will use the PC/sized (0.310") boolits this time and see if "just lead" (0.312") helps.

[bullet maker 57]

Did you recrown the barrel?

[rmcelwee]

Yes, I did a DIY "brass screw" recrown. I have another Mosin that I did and it shoots great. I seem to remember that this one did as well but I should have tested it with normal milsurp ammo before shooting my gallery rounds.

I did load more rounds last night and will be taking 5 grain, 5.6 grain, and 6 grain rounds with me (12 rounds each) the next time I go out. I know 36 rounds isn't much to test with on something like this but I don't have much brass right now. I'll take my Mosin PU Sniper next time so I can rule the rifle out as a potential problem.

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