Thompson Center Seneca 45- Project

[Bardo]

So I picked this up yesterday from a Pawn shop. I saw it a few months ago and have been tempted but wasn't welling to pay asking price. (I use to own a Cherokee in 45 and 32 and love these little Thompsons) It is in rough shape, but the bore looks good. I took my bore light in and checked that out before I bought it. I offered him $150 out the door and he took my offer.

The things that are wrong with it is:
-Cracked Stock
-Chunk off wood missing next to lock.
-Holes in the stock from the thumb tacks in the stock.
-Set trigger doesn't work.

The big one is the cracked stock. So I'm hoping I can glue it up and refinish the stock and have a nice little shooter.

I did go shot it and it didn't shot good. I tried .433, .440 and .445 round balls with .015 patch lubed with moose milk. and 50-60 3f Goex. But the gun has some flex to it because of the crack and the wedge is loose. I figured I would fix the gun up before I spent to much time getting it to shoot.

In the pic. I have it next to a TC Hawken.

Bardo


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[triggerhappy243]

WHAT A SHAME ....... SOME TWITT BEAT THE HECKLE OUT OF THAT. i THINK i WOULD LOOK FOR A NEW STOCK. AND A NEW LOCK.

[Jeff Michel]

I have had a number of T/C Seneca's and Cherokee's over the years and all of them has had a tendency to split at the single lock bolt/lock mortise. The previous owner sped up the process with the nails. It depends on what you want as a finished product, you can splice missing wood and fix cracks using accra-glas, fill the holes with shellac sticks and refinish. A replacement stock is uncommon and priced accordingly. I would guess that if your trigger is not missing any parts or obviously broken, it's probably out of adjustment. T/C locks are pretty tough, I don't recall ever seeing any broken set triggers or components but you will lose a lock tumblers from time to time. Should be a good project.

[mooman76]

Take the lock off and examine the inside parts. If you see no chips or obvious worn parts, it's likely like Jeff said and just out of adjustment which is common. I would just repair the stock the best I could. It should turn out to be a good little shooter. The wedge can be tightened up quite easily. Set the wedge on something flat and solid and tap it lightly with a hammer in the middle of the wedge. Try it and if it is still loose, tap it again until you get it where you want it.

[johnson1942]

your stock work to make as new isnt that much. for someone who never does stocks it may be too much. i build custom muzzleloader sidelock and to me it would bve easy. strip the stock down to no hard ware. strip off the finish and wash it completely with a thinner with out any finish or any grease. sand the stock smooth with the grain. stain the whole thing with a good leather non oil type leather die. tandy leather sells them. medium brown. wash with water real clean even in the cracks. let dry completely and i mean completely. open up the cracks and put some gorilla glue in them and clamp. let dry a couple of days. for all the brass tack holes make slivers of wood out of walnut and dye all of them also. let dry. put a drop of thin super glue on the tip of the slivers and tap into the tack hole. let dry clip off at the surface.redy on top of the filled holes. the gorilla glue will expand. clean off at surface and wet san wth the grain and re wash very clean. let dry completely. start rubbing in a nice oil and let se for 1/2 hour and then rub off excess. a soft oil and dosent dry like varnish. do this untill the wood is well oiled. can leave like this or get the stock rub by true oil and rub untill a soft glow with the grain. wipe down good as the true oil stock rub has pumice in it. use a furniture oil on it and wipe off excess. do that a few tiem a year. their you are a traditional oiled stock. if the crack in the stock is big after glueing it drill up through it and insert a wooden dowel with glue on it through it. sand the ends smooth and stain before oiling the stock.never glue on a unstained stock because the glue left over that went into the wood wont except a stain and your finish will look splochy and not nice. their it is, it isnt rocket science. that gun can be rebuilt better than new and no reason it shouldnt shoot well also. the the tang and breech plug and barrel have to be in the stock firm or it wont hit anything. i always silver solder my tangs to the breech plug and drill a 10/32 hole up throught the connection and tap them 10/32. then i put a 10/32 bolt up through the front of the trigger guard into that hole and bolt the tang breech area solid to the stock in that area. my barrels stay put and the accracy is better. your gun is a fine one and will with time make a very very good one.

[bubba.50]

what a shame what someone did to a nice defenseless little gun. as my favorite uncle would say : "it's a strange roarin' that goes through some people's heads".

[koger]

Pm sent on your repairs!

[smoked turkey]

johnson1942 thanks for your detailed write-up on stock fixen'. That is something that all of us will need sometime in the future if we stay in this hobby.

[johnson1942]

you can also go to the gunsmithing part of cast boolits and look at my sticky for finishing gun stocks the johnson way. i can also give additional info to that sticky if you go for it as it is not rocket science just a lot of years of info ive put together. im doing a custom build for baha traveler now and in the final stages of rubbing out the stock and it is as the young people would say awsome. it is so much better than any thing out their in this day and age that it is breath takeing. ive seen custom 5000 dollar bolt actions that dont even come close to my stocks. again it isnt rocket science but just a step by step process. will post pictures when im done with it and about to send to baja traveler.

[quilbilly]

My favorite rifle for deer hunting was my seneca 45 until I took a tumble over a stump and cracked the stock at the wedge pin area. Duct taped together it actually shoots even better but I have taken the accident as an excuse to have a custom stock of quilt maple made from my own aged wood. The stock maker is Notch Pass gun works who has made many extraordinary stocks out of quilt maple. Until then my Cherokee 45 is doing a fine job. A quilt maple stock will be scary gorgeous.

[triggerhappy243]

gotta post pics now... when it is finished

[pietro]

WHAT A SHAME ....... SOME TWITT BEAT THE HECKLE OUT OF THAT. i THINK i WOULD LOOK FOR A NEW STOCK. AND A NEW LOCK.


Both are unobtainium, anywhere.

T/C's machines that made the Cherokee/Partiot/Seneca parts were lost in a plant fire over 25 years ago, and they are flat out of spares for these scaled-down (from Hawken/Renegade) guns.

I have 2 Seneca's (a .36 & a .45) and a .45 Cherokee - which I'm hanging on to, as a spare parts source for the two Seneca's.

The thin stocks generally split from loading them up to Hawken levels (too powerful) or from a fall.


.

[triggerhappy243]

Pietro, that sounds correct. never-the-less, it is a shame that T/C did not replace the machinery to continue producing such fun rifles. And now that Sheeite and wasteon now owning T/C, we will never see that kind of quality and grandeur, ever again.

[475BH]

http://www.notchpassgunworks.com/

[Fly]

Is gorilla glue really that good? I tried it once, not on a gun but some other repair & was not impressed.
Maybe I did not give it enough time to set up? Just asking?

Fly

[pietro]

.

YMMV, but I've never had any good luck, using Gorilla Glue for a stock repair.

I rely on a waterproof wood glue, with some sawdust (from a small hole I drill under the buttplate) mixed into the glue as a colorant.

Small stock re-inforcing trenches across the crack & filled with epoxy, can sometimes be gouged out via working inside the stock's inletting, so the repair can often be disappeared.

.

[johnson1942]

never ever had any problem with gorilla glue. wood has to be grease free. glue and clamp. let dry and it will stay their. put back a 22 cal birch stock that was in three pieces and you cant tell it was ever broken. i always stain and dry completely before glueing or stain will not go where glue was. cant use a oil base stain.

[Bardo]

Is gorilla glue really that good? I tried it once, not on a gun but some other repair & was not impressed.
Maybe I did not give it enough time to set up? Just asking?

Fly
I love and hate gorilla glue. I hate how messy it is. I love that it is water activated and works into cracks. I also find it forgiving with oils. At work it is the glue we use when glueing teak. Teak is very oily and we only put a oil finish on it. You have to wipe or spray the wood with water first. Its what i used on this stock. I flushed the crack with lacquer thiner then water then blew it out with compressed air then gleud. It did foam and make a mess. Seems to be strong. I glued the missing piece in with titebond I. For wood glues I use titebond I, III, super glue, gorila glue and I even have some hide glue, but that stuff is a total pain in the butt. I use titebond I 90% of the time.

Bardo

[Bardo]

So here are a few pics after the first coat of oil. I am using a Watco danish oil (natural). I am wet sanding to fill holes. I got the hole wet and steamed with an iron. It seemed to close them up 50- 70%. They look ok but still wish they weren't there. The crack glued up pretty good and you cant see it. The wood plug (we always called them dutchmans) looks alright but the color could of been a little better. The sanding the stock took the longest and is the suckiest part to do. Hopefully I will get it finished and put together tomorrow night and shot it on Wednesday. I'm into this project about 4 hours and still have put another 3 coats of finish, then put it back together and work on the trigger. I talked to Koger on the phone and he mentioned glass bedding it so I did. Hopefully that improve accuracy.

Bardo

Double click on image to enlarge.
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[bubba.50]

looks good so far. I like that Watco finish. about all I use these days. particularly like the dark walnut. it wouldn't look the most traditional but, small checkered panels on the grip & fore-arm might help hide those tack holes.

[Bardo]

Got the gun put back together and the set trigger is working. Hopefully i get to shoot it tommorow.

Bardo

[Bardo]

Went and shot several combinations. It shot a 2- 3 shot groups just over 1" at 25 yards. That was .015 pillow ticking .440 round ball with 60 gr fffg goex. I think i can make that work and maybe improve on it.

Bardo

[koger]

That is good shooting, minute of squirrel head! Stock looks great man, you did a great job! Thanks for sharing and taking us along!

[Bardo]

There were spots that felt rough in the barrel when pushing the ball down. So i lapped it. It seemed to really help. I went and shot some more today and it really likes 50gr of Goex fffg with .015 patch and .440 ball. At 25 yards it was doing .5" or better. The pic is at 25 yards and was the best group. Sighted it in for 100 yards and it was hitting about 2.5" high at 50 yards. The thing that sucks is in Utah your bullet has to weigh 130 gr to be legal for deer. These weigh 129 gr. I may get a lyman mold with the taller sprue.

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[triggerhappy243]

or go get a maxi mould.

[Bardo]

or go get a maxi mould.
Ya thats the next thing to try. Got a RCBS minie and a conical. I have the lyman 240 maxi but cant seam to find the mold. But i really would like to shoot round ball.