The future of lead??

[zanemoseley]

So I'm curious what you guys think of the future availability of lead for casting? I just got into casting about 1 year ago and am sitting on a bit over 100 pounds of lead but occasionally will stop by a tire shop to try and buy a couple boxes. Zinc, Iron and Nylon wheel weights already make up about 30-40% of what I get my mitts on. How long do you fellers think it will be till there are no more lead wheel weights? I'm honestly thinking of trying to stockpile at least 100 extra pounds each year, so in a decade I'll be sitting on 1000 pounds of lead or enough to cast about 37,000 45 ACP target rounds. Will we see a time in the near future where lead for casting will be hard to come by?

[Suo Gan]

They are phasing lead out of wheel weights. There are other sources of lead. There is lead from thousands of miles of underground pluming, roofing demo, sailboat keels, shot and range reclamation, radiator shops, medical and dental sources, miscellaneous scrap at the metal scrapper, old type press, goes on and on.

The reality is that lead is seen as a carcinogen and a health hazard. As time wears on the cheap availability of lead will probably dry up. Then you could always buy pig lead from a distributor.

[Suo Gan]

A thousand pounds of lead is really not that much. I keep mine in 30 cal ammo cans. Each can holds sixty pounds. Twelve or fifteen cans is about a thousand pounds. Old metal paint cans work good too. They hold about fifty pounds. I seal the top back on. Amazing how much bugs and dirt get in there after awhile.

[Beagle333]

Just find you a place to shoot where you can recover your boolits from the backstop/berms and you can shoot it over and over until you wear it out! ;)

[str8shot426]

I think wheel weights will eventually go by the wayside ( pun intended!) I don't see lead in general becoming unavailable any time soon. What would fishermen do?

[zanemoseley]

I do scavenge a bit from my local range. When I'm there and there is a break of others there I will go and pick up some, usually just 5 pounds here and there though. I know 1000 pounds isn't exactly a lifetime supply but it would be a good buffer.

[Alley Cat]

Lead supply may get harder to find but stockpile while you can...

[Grantb]

I have given up trying to find wheel weights. My primary lead source is from the local handgun range. I go there about an hour before closing and if no one is there I mine the backstop. In an hour I can mine 100 to 300 pounds depending on how hard I work. I use a 1/4 inch screen in a wooden frame. I get a lot of rock, but pick that out later. It is dirty, but fluxing with wood chips results in a clean product.

[RogerDat]

People confuse availability of WW's with availability of Lead itself. You want to buy a ton of whatever alloy blows up your skirt you can click on the sponsor link on the top of the page for Rotometals.

WW's will slowly degrade as a lead source by being mostly other metals so that cheap source will dry up. As lead is used less for manufactured products in general use having been replaced by rubber and plastic for many things less of it will show up in scrap yards as a cheap source. On the other hand as lead is used less the decline in demand should reduce prices from foundry sources.

Steadily purchasing more than you use is probably the best route to having a good long term stash but personally I don't think you have 10 years of cheap and available lead supply to acquire that stash. You might want to consider slightly accelerated rate of purchase, or consider other sources. Purchase from Swapping and Selling of WW or plain ingots from members may be cost effective depending on availability and price in your area. Prices tend to be about 50% of foundry prices.

Like any other saving program have a goal and steadily work toward it and chances are you will wind up in pretty good shape but I don't think lead itself won't be available. Now places that don't allow lead bullets to be fired... that might happen.

[BNE]

Just keep you eyes and ears open. Its out there.

[waksupi]

If you only have 100#, you are out of lead!

[bangerjim]

Anyone relying on WW's ( free or otherwise) will be running out of that source in short time. That does NOT mean we are running out of lead. There are thousands of tons of lead being recycled all the time in the US. And foreign countries are still producing it at a high rate.

Lead will be with us for a long time. Do not worry! There is life beyond WW's. That source is from the old days which is rapidly coming to an end due to "greenies".

But if you only have a 100#, you had better really get on the stick! I go thru that much in two good trips to the range!!!!!!! Check with all the scrap yards around you. Some do not sell......most do.

Good luck finding lead.....besides WW's! I gave up on the over 2 years ago.

[William Yanda]

My crystal ball is occluded today.

[Kraschenbirn]

PB-alloy WWs are non-existent around here. Last time I purchased WWs from recycler - about 18 months ago - ran something like 55% Zn/Fe by weight. Dropped in there a couple weeks ago to check what was available. Sorting through the top couple inches of his WW barrel netted, maybe, two dozen useable WWs...not worth the time or gas. Raked down the face of our club's 25M pistol berm last week and got 200# (after sifting out the dirt and picking out the rock) in about an hour. After cleaning/fluxing and blended with some of my hoard of COWW that 200# of range scrap will translate into about 250# of my basic 'pistol' alloy (which I also use for smokeless loads in my .45-70s and .38-55). You just gotta get it where you can find it.

Bill

[BBQJOE]

If you're really crafty, you can put on some workman's clothes and show up at a hospital xray room to do some "repairs".
The walls are all lined with the stuff.[smilie=1:

[Blackwater]

Ah! What a question! And it IS relevant, too, these days, unfortunately. My crystal ball is broke, so I can't help with the answer, but it don't look too good, does it? Get all you can WHILE you can. That's the only answer that comes to my mind. Preppers take heed!

[Garyshome]

You can usually get some on castboolits for a pretty good $. #100 ain't much #1000 is a start.

[RogerDat]

Oh bother Pooh! This how much is a lot is totally an individual thing. If you cast some 30-06 for deer hunting season and a little revolver plinking then 100# of lead should last a year easy. If you are casting for auto loaders then 100# is not so much. Or if you are thinking of long term supply then 1000# is just a good start. One nice thing is 1000# don't take up much space :-)

The main thing is to educate yourself on what lead and alloys will do you the most good and then steadily work toward having as much on hand as you think makes sense. The OP idea of steadily buying some extra is a good one. How much extra is whatever works for your needs and your budget.

If scrap yards and tire stores are not good sources in your area, let people know you are looking for lead, check thrift and garage sales for pewter and trade it for lead. Good quality at reasonable prices are readily available in S&S forum. Range lead, WW's, printers lead are all available at prices that will stretch your budget further. If you can get still get WW's with a decent amount of lead in your area then buy those on a regular basis. I would suggest checking at independent tire stores, especially those that sell used tires. Older cars have more lead WW's and who goes to a shop that sells used tires?

[bruce381]

yeah i got about 900 lbs and i'm sweating it

[trapper9260]

I think wheel weights will eventually go by the wayside ( pun intended!) I don't see lead in general becoming unavailable any time soon. What would fishermen do?
They are maken sinkers out of Zinc now for fishing because some state dose not let the use of lead of a weight to be use or just do not let lead be use for fishing.If you do find a deal on some lead no matter what it is grab it if it is with in reason.But watch out for like ebay that sell it as igots of WW because you do not know if how they melt there WW if it is on high heat and if they did not sort out all the Zinc then you will no good alloy to use unless you clean it out.and cost you more in the long run.But if it is still in WW form then it will be like getting it like places that is stated.Buyers bewear of where you get it from.I gave up on buying WW because of like stated you do not know how much lead is really in it anymore.I just get soft lead from the scrap yard and you need to watch that also because some mix zinc in it but for the size it is easy to sort out.

[Blackwater]

I think trapper's a very wise man. Excellent advice!

The days when I used to get my lead WW's for free now seem quaint and distant, and are just a memory. It's even hard to get garages to sell it to you now! Yeah, like Bob Dylan sang, "Th' Times They Are A'Changin'!"

[Tatume]

WW's will slowly degrade as a lead source by being mostly other metals so that cheap source will dry up.

Such as lead-214 or 210 to Bi? But they eventually degrade to lead-206, which is stable. So there will be no net loss.

:-)

Take care, Tom

[Bad Water Bill]

As I grow older the big boys (30-06 etc) are no longer fun to shoot all day.

Same with the big handguns.

Now those OLD 22s suddenly are a real challenge AND you can get about ONE HUNDRED BOOLITS out of a 1# ingot.

Yes about 100# will last a loooong time.

[zanemoseley]

I got to the range today a bit after 10 and shot a couple rounds of skeet, nobody at the pistol range the entire time. So I get done with skeet and decide to pick up some lead at the berm before I start pistol practice. Of course someone came like 2 minutes into me picking up lead, got about 1/2 pound lol. Our berm doesn't sound as easy to mine by hand as some people, the owners have piled up wood at the berm so over the years its become a huge fluffy pile of wood shavings above the dirt, you can't even get to the dirt easy. I know the owner pretty well, I might ask if I can come some Sunday to mine while they're closed. If I took a shovel and rake I could probably get down to the jackpot instead of just picking up from the surface.

[castalott]

As I grow older the big boys (30-06 etc) are no longer fun to shoot all day.

Same with the big handguns.

Now those OLD 22s suddenly are a real challenge AND you can get about ONE HUNDRED BOOLITS out of a 1# ingot.

Yes about 100# will last a loooong time.

Me too! I have discovered casting 22 centerfire. I was always told it was impossible but actually it's easy with the right mold. I'm not trying to reach escape velocity but only 22lr/22mag power. I don't shoot much across the 'hollars' anymore. I want that lead in a berm where I can recycle it.

Dale

[Bad Water Bill]

The range I currently shoot at uses natural lake bottom sands for their berms and most of the ranges and shotgun areas have never been mined in over 25 years or more.

This is a heavily used DNR range near Chiraq.

It will close down at the end of this month for a TOTAL make over.

From what I have been told,the contractor would not take on the project unless they can totally excavate the whole area for the lead that is in and under the soil.

I can not imagine how much shot must be laying on the shotgun range after all of these years can you?

[castalott]

Would they let me mine for a weekend? ( Jus kidd'in.... I doubt anyone could....)

[BAGTIC]

Many places have already banned lead for fishing weights. I don't know if any have banned lead containing lures such as jigs.

[hanover67]

I live in California, which has already banned lead for all hunting ammunition. I'm worried that there will be a ban on any lead ammo. My local shooting range has a strict prohibition against mining spent boolits from berms for "liability" reasons. I now get my range lead from a guy who knows a guy....

[JSnover]

So I'm curious what you guys think of the future availability of lead for casting? … How long do you fellers think it will be till there are no more lead wheel weights?

Two different questions but the same answer for both.
We got spoiled by wheel weights because the alloy was right for most of us and they were often free. If they disappear, so what? You are currently buying lead in wheel weight form. When that dries up you'll buy it in some other form.
When I first started it seemed like everyone had lead but me. Then I stumbled into three major scores (free!) and life was good. Learn to scrounge, you'll be ok.

[Markbo]

Learn to scrounge. Thats funny. I have been doing this casting thing for only about 5 years. I was real lucky with a source for wheel weights for a while, but I have never lucked into any other source. Shooting ranges, hospitals, plumbers & plumbers supply. Nothing. Heck Ive been to Goodwill dozens of times and never found any pewter. Scrounging is no different than "luck across it". Not a good plan if your plan is to stock up.

[odies dad]

What would need to be done to clean up battery lead to use for casting?
I have a bunch of old broken batteries laying around the farm. The acid has long since leached into the drinking water, but could the plates be washed or somehow cleaned up and smelted?

[bangerjim]

What would need to be done to clean up battery lead to use for casting?
I have a bunch of old broken batteries laying around the farm. The acid has long since leached into the drinking water, but could the plates be washed or somehow cleaned up and smelted?

PLEASE..................do NOT make us go thru that again! Do a search on here for battery lead melting and read the HORROR stories.

Just do NOT DO IT!

banger

[Markbo]

Why dont yiu just share with us what you really feel Jim? ;)

[Bad Water Bill]

Thanks for the warning Jim.

I started to say something and Girty STOMPED on my fingers because my remarks were to nasty and could get me banned.

[dudel]

People probably worried when Linotype machines were phased out. Where would they get their lead? They aren't phasing out LEAD; just lead wheel weights. You can still find lead in a variety of places if you get clever about it. Worst case, you can buy it from the site sponsors in the links at the top of the page. I know several people who do just that to get a known quality alloy. You might let people know that you are looking for lead. A friend came by a few months ago and dropped off 40# of scuba weights he didn't want/need any longer. He knew I would take lead.

As ready availability goes down; price will go up. That however, is a different issue.

[HATCH]

As stated in the entire thread, lead is out there.
The problem is casters are a funny bunch. They want to go to the local tire shop and get cheap used wheel weights. Those days are going away.
I can call up my supplier and get all the lead I want for under $1.10 a pound for 95/2.5/2.5 lead and thats a shipped price to me.
Thats a known alloy.
Until someone bans the TOTAL use of lead, it will be available.
Heck my machinist friend has steel that has lead in it. You can't weld it but it machines perfectly.

[FISH4BUGS]

10 years ago or so a friend of mine called me one day and said that he had sold his tire shop and that the sale was closing at 5 on Friday. He told me to come get all I could take away for free. I took well in excess of a ton of wheel weights.
The announcement that zinc would replace lead wheel weights either had been made, or it was being discussed....I don't recall which.
I am so glad I listened to that little voice in my head saying "....do it and take everything". I had a passenger car and 5 gallon buckets. 45 minutes each way and 5 gallon buckets made for a long couple of days.
I made a number of trips and had bloody fingers when it was all done. But it was wonderful. I am sitting on a well over a ton of unsorted wheel weights.
I am all set. My kids will probably see it in the will when I am gone.

[DeputyDog25]

I have an endless supply of lead right now as my son works at a steel mill and the lead is a nasty by product they are happy to get rid of.

[Alexn20]

share the love Dog!

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I saw here that lead is a byproduct of producing steel? could some one explain where it comes from, is it in the ore, or do they use it to flux? just curious and may have to stop by a mill.(or foundry where they cast steel?...) and try to score some

[toallmy]

I am a new caster ,about a year or so ,but I have set up a route around my little area hitting the tire shops . I offer 20 bucks a 5 gal bucket and have not been run off .every shop has been glad to sell. I started becouse my local junk yard told me that thay were going to charge me 1.00 a pound up from the .60 that I had been paying.

[Drew P]

You guys shoot too much. 50lbs per range session? Jebus!
Ive been paying .60$/lb at a scrap yard. I think I'll go by there today and pick up some bags of new #2 shot they had.

[Markbo]

The problem I have seen from junk yards is they dont separate WW by metal type. The average I saw in a National Tire chain as of a year ago was roughly 15% lead to 85% "other". Any price per pound makes that a bad deal.

[Jtarm]

You can always buy it on the commodities exchange. I wonder what the minimum lead futures contract is..

Answer: 25 metric tons or 55,000 lbs, which probably explains why pigs are 55 lbs.

Assuming you could take delivery at today's spot price, that's about $40,000.

Just add 1,100 lbs each of Sb &Sn plus arsenic for a good COWW alloy.

[rbuck351]

With wheel weight lead becoming more difficult to get, I have found a way to make sure my supply will last. About 6 months ago I bought my retirement home on 13.5 acres just outside a small town in MT. It has a hill about 300 feet high on the back side of the property and I can get a 200yd range facing the hill. Buy a couple of truck loads of sand for a backstop area and recycle. I currently have about 850lbs of pure lead and 600/700 lbs of coww. Even with some loss from hunting and a bit of shooting at unrecoverable areas this should be enough for the rest of my days. Lead won't go away but it is becoming harder to get at low cost. There are a lot of folks in govt that make their living slaying dragons for you and I. When they run out of dragons of one type they make new ones by declaration. Lead has been declared a dragon and must be slayed for your safety. It doesn't matter if you dug up a chunk of lead over here, when you shoot it in the ground over there you have destroyed the enviornment. Get it while you are still allowed.

[Dancing Bear]

And on a side note: Grab any 50/50 solder you may come by. I was fortunate to have a nice quantity donated to me when plumbing went to the 90/10 mix.

[paul h]

I don't see the availability of lead being an issue in the future. What I do see is like many things, you're going to have to may more for it. The days of 5 gal buckets for ww's for $20 or trading a buddy cast bullets for buckets have been long gone for me for years now. On the upside it's not hard to find ingots of ww shipped to your door for $1.25/lb in a flat rate USPS shipper.

Hmm, no bending over the stinky pile of ww's bubbling off grease and dog wizz to make ingots.

[Jtarm]

Hmm, no bending over the stinky pile of ww's bubbling off grease and dog wizz to make ingots.

I'm down with that for $1.25 per lb!

[lobogunleather]

Never thought I would see this day. Been salvaging lead (indoor range, wheel weights, etc) and casting bullets for 40 years.

Thank God, I am 65 now and retired, with 4 five-gallon buckets of 30-year old wheel weights and about 100 lbs of new foundry linotype metal sitting in the garage of my retirement home.

The best advice I can offer anyone is to stock up now while supplies still exist because we can never predict what the future might bring.

Best regards.

[Markbo]

And that is exactly why I have 2 x 40 gallon drums full of lead wheel weights. :D

[dragon813gt]

I'm down with that for $1.25 per lb!

Why bother w/ wheelweights of unknown alloy. I was able to buy 96/2/2 direct from a foundry for $1.32 a pound shipped. I'm done dealing w/ unknown alloys. There are small foundries all over so there are plenty of places to buy it from.

[rbuck351]

As far as I know there are no foundries within a couple thousand miles of Anchorage. Shipping to Anchorage is expensive. $1.32 a lb for foundry lead shipped to Ak? I doubt it and even if it were it's still 4 times what I have been paying for ww lead. WW works really well with out knowing the exact composition. Which foundry is it that will ship to AK for $1.32 lb?

[paul h]

If I was a competitive cast bullet shooter, I could see paying for known composition foundry lead alloy. As a recreational shooter looking to feed my handguns, I've found what is sold as COWW ingots to be close enough and good enough for my use.

If there is a foundry that will ship small batches, i.e. medium flat rate USPS boxes with 60#'s of ingots for $1.32, please send contact information.

Seems the foundry alloy I see advertised is $2/lb.

[dragon813gt]

You should assume that all prices are for the lower 48. Choosing to live in Alaska means everything is more money and you have a limited selection. It is what it is.

You might as well stop thinking small at this point. No foundry is going to sell by the flat rate box. Wheel weights are almost dead at this point and you're going to have to pay for a larger quantity at once. I can buy as little as 250#s at once but the price goes up. But it's still significantly less than what Rotometals charges. Would be even cheaper for someone that lived close enough to pick it up.

[rbuck351]

My point was, there is a very good reason why some of us still mess with ww. My guess is it would cost me $3 per lb for foundry metal delivered to Anchorage even if I ordered a ton. Fortunately I don't need any as I still mess with ww metal I bought at 20/30 cents per lb.

[Marturios]

I started with wheel weights, but now I use isolead. I've got about 1000lbs now, and can get more. I started stocking up when I decided wheel weights were too hard to acquire and would only get worse. If lead gets scarce, I'll be stocked for a good long time.

[hickfu]

At just over 2000lbs, I dont think I need any more.... but if I find it free, I sure as heck will take it..

[fredj338]

The lead ww is pretty much dead. When Kalif banned them almost 5yrs ago, I told folks to start hoarding. Kalif is the larges auto/tire market in the USA. They are not going to make two diff kinds of ww so lead nation wide has been dwindling fast. Lead for casting has always been where you can find it but that isn't ww anymore. 100# is a good start, but anything less than 1000# & IMO, you are not even near having enough.

[fredj338]

Why bother w/ wheelweights of unknown alloy. I was able to buy 96/2/2 direct from a foundry for $1.32 a pound shipped. I'm done dealing w/ unknown alloys. There are small foundries all over so there are plenty of places to buy it from.
So why not share the link so we can all play.

[dragon813gt]

There is no link. Call a foundry in your area. If you buy from one far away you're going to pay a lot for shipping.

[shaggybull]

Check out a fork lift boneyard. The counter balance on some fork lifts have an outershell of steel the bulk of the weight is lead. One of the local warehouses near where I live runs the forklifts until the die then salvages parts. They found they had more into removing the lead than they got from the scrap yard. yields around 3500 lbs lead off one counterbalance, that'll keep you in bullets awhile.

[FISH4BUGS]

I have well over 2000 lbs of wheel weights in the basement and barn. These were scored ten years ago or more. Very few zinc ones.
I have a lifetime supply. The ONE time I listened to that little voice in my head.

[haynk]

Speaking of automotive lead, the price of new batteries seems to have gone through the roof. Someone quoted $140 for a new battery. As for using batteries for casting, forget it, not because of environmental concerns and other reasons referred to in the other thread mentioned, but because of practical reasons. I tried once to process a battery that had been in a building fire. Part of the battery case had been burned off so there was no acid to be concerned about. The plates have a white deposit on them and very little lead comes from the plates anyway. The posts are of course easy to get off. Under the posts there are thick connectors to the plates but the battery case is tough and it is too time consuming to get the connectors out. I say again, forget batteries.

Cable connectors to the battery posts used to be lead and were nice and heavy. Don't know if US cars still use them.

If you come across a old building demolition or repair job the cast iron pipes have the joints sealed with nice soft lead.

I once lucked up and was given and old window sash weight of lead.


KEH

[bdbruce]

Since California outlawed W/W containing lead many years ago. So I've never considered using or collecting them. I know that a lot people move here from other states and bring in lead W/Ws. I don't know if it is easy to tell if the w/w has zinc or other contaminants in them. I have found a couple of metal recycle places not to far away, that sell scrap lead for $0.50/pound. I keep 200-400 lbs on hand.

Keep the Silver Stream Flowing, Big Daddy Bruce

[Markbo]

That's funny. Outlaw lead and it sells cheaper there than anywhere.

[lwknight]

I got taken in by the "lead going away" misnomer like many others. Since I have bought and sold 1000s of pounds and still have over 2 tons piled up in the weeds. I'm not devoting garage space to something that will keep just find in the ground for millions of years. I can buy tons and tons at any time if only I will pay the price. Lead is not going away.
Cheap or free lead is going to be harder to find. That's all.

[dondiego]

The future of lead is bright! (Especially shortly after melting!) Matter can neither be created, nor destroyed. I store a lot in my backstop.

[Markbo]

Shoot if I pour all mine out in a hole in the yard instead of neatly stored in the garage that will be the week my wife wants a new house! :D