Boolits and microwaves

[Marlin Junky]

Perhaps there's an EE or a CE (or someone who knows a lot more about microwaves than I do) out there that can provide input to the following:

Since Pb isn't a conductor of electricity, what would happen if an unchecked boolit is heated in a microwave oven? Will it reach 450F in a matter of seconds or will it heat much more slowly than say, frozen water? It takes about 30 seconds or so for an ice cube to melt in a plastic cup in my microwave and the cup ends up significantly warmer than the ice-water (the ice cube is partially melted at the end of 30 seconds). What I'm looking for is a method to remove the heat treat on the nose of heat treated 50/50 boolits (1/2 1:30 alloy and 1/2 clip-on WW metal) that is more systematic than Paco Kelly's butane torch method with boolits standing in water. I've never tried Paco's method but I have annealed brass with a propane torch and I would imaging nose softening of boolits in this manner might get a bit sloppy. So, the plan would be to place a plastic pan of boolits standing in frozen water up to the ogive in a microwave oven and remove the heat treat from the noses. Has anyone actually microwaved a boolit? Should I try this experiment out in the backyard with an old microwave oven under a bomb blanket? :mrgreen:

MJ

[357maximum]

Perhaps there's an EE or a CE (or someone who knows a lot more about microwaves than I do) out there that can provide input to the following:

Since Pb isn't a conductor of electricity, AAAHHHH YES IT IS>>> Should I try this experiment out in the backyard with an old microwave oven under a bomb blanket? :mrgreen:SPARKY SPARKY


And just for general knowledge you cannot boil an egg in a bowl of water in the nuker either.....well not without opening the door when it goes BOOM anyway[smilie=1:

MJ

fdjfsj sjfsdsjdk

[Marlin Junky]

Battery post are made of Pb aren't they!! Duh :roll:

I sure wasted my time on that one. :( You guys have my permission to delete this thread. I was just trying to see who is paying attention. [smilie=1:

Thanks Mike...

MJ

[lathesmith]

Battery posts, solder, circuit boards,terminals...believe it or not, lead is classified as a "poor" electrical conductor, but that is just relative to copper, silver, and a few others.
lathesmith

[BABore]

The "Paco" nose annealing method works just fine for the few you'll probably use. To make the process more controllable, get yourself a "Tempil" stick in the appropriate temperature range. 300 to 350 F, I believe. A "Tempil" stick is a large crayon type marker that melts at a very specific temperature range. You can usually get them at a welding equipment supplier. They're mainly used for preheating die steels and maintaining interpass temperatures during repair welding. Just mark up the boolit nose and heat it up til it melts. Takes about 20 seconds per.

[Calamity Jake]

You gona shoot em or eat em? They go good with a little cheese :kidding:

[Marlin Junky]

You gona shoot em or eat em? They go good with a little cheese :kidding:

Er, uh... oh yeah, April Fools! [smilie=1:

BABore,

Those Tempil sticks sound interesting, but to remove the heat treatment on the noses don't I need to heat them to the temperature the heat treating was performed at (450F for 1 hour before quenching) and then allow them to air cool?

MJ

[HABCAN]

Not to hijack or anything, but hey! 357Max.............I do soft-boiled eggs in a cereal bowl of hot water many times a week for b'fast and NO kaboom. 120 secs. on HI is right for me. Now, back to regular programming. Sorry.

[cbrick]

Those Tempil sticks sound interesting, but to remove the heat treatment on the noses don't I need to heat them to the temperature the heat treating was performed at (450F for 1 hour before quenching) and then allow them to air cool? MJ

No. If you use a convection oven for the uniform heating through-out the oven you can choose the amount of annealing you desire. If your boolits where HT at 450 degees and are 30 BHN and you'd like to anneal to 20 BHN or 25 or 15 you need only determine the temp setting for the oven to acheive your desired BHN. Once this temp is determined place boolits in a tray in oven and leave them for an hour. At the end of the hour simply turn off the oven and leave the boolits there until the interior of the oven AND the boolits return to room temp.

Rick

[jrgift]

I think it is valid question,just that it most likely would not work since the oven would heat the entire mass.If you have an old workable oven give it a try.

[Marlin Junky]

Rick,

I guess I'm not making myself perfectly clear. I want hard boolit shanks and soft noses while using only 50/50 alloy during the casting process.

MJ

[357maximum]

Not to hijack or anything, but hey! 357Max.............I do soft-boiled eggs in a cereal bowl of hot water many times a week for b'fast and NO kaboom. 120 secs. on HI is right for me. Now, back to regular programming. Sorry.

I am glad your results were better than mine, mine left the door swinging and the whole kitchen smelled of fire blackpowder, maybe it was a over cook time issue thing[smilie=1:

[357maximum]

Battery post are made of Pb aren't they!! Duh :roll:

I sure wasted my time on that one. :( You guys have my permission to delete this thread. I was just trying to see who is paying attention. [smilie=1:

Thanks Mike...

MJ

Did not want someone to hurt themselves poking lead pipe into a tranformer or something[smilie=1:

[DLCTEX]

Why not pour the boolits from two different alloy to start with? As outlined in this forum a while back, I think it would be easier. DALE

[BABore]

Er, uh... oh yeah, April Fools! [smilie=1:

BABore,

Those Tempil sticks sound interesting, but to remove the heat treatment on the noses don't I need to heat them to the temperature the heat treating was performed at (450F for 1 hour before quenching) and then allow them to air cool?

MJ

No, you don't need to go that high to anneal or draw back the nose. Set them in a pan of water and bring the water level up to the point where you want the softening to stop. Heat the nose to the proper annealing temperature and then leave it set. No need to quench it.

I ran a test a few years back with OHTWW's. They were heat treated for 1 hour at 435 F and quenched. After 1 week of cure time they were at 28 Bhn. I took sets of 5 bullets at put them in the oven for one hour, then turned the oven off, and left them alone. I worked in the 250 to 350 F temperature range and ran tests in 25 F increments. I don't have my notes in front of me, but I know I was able to anneal the alloy back incrementally until it reached its normal air cooled state. It works best if you allow your HT'd bullets to acheive full hardness (1-2 weeks) before you anneal them.

Dale wrote:

Why not pour the boolits from two different alloy to start with? As outlined in this forum a while back, I think it would be easier. DALE

I like to believe a mold is a fine tool and try not to work them that hot. I have tried the two alloy thing and it is far slower than nose annealing. You cast normal bullets then later spend 20-30 seconds annealing the nose. It takes far longer remelting the Pb nose, leaving the mold cool, and sprue solidify when casting two alloys.

What alloy you use also has an effect on performance and how you approach things. WW's have a pretty high antimony level. ACWW boolits will expand well (given enough velocity), but the mushroom will tend to rivet and fragment into small pieces rather easy. Now cut yor WW's with 50% Pb and things change alot. Antimony is cut in half. This alloy is much tougher and more malleable. Heat treated it will run around 19-21 Bhn. Air cooled it is 9-10. It will expand in its HT'd state pretty well and not rivet as easily. When you shoot AC'd, or anneal the nose of a HT'd boolit, it expands well and holds its mushroom very well. Any pieces that fragment will be quite large and will act as secondaries. I've tested annealed nose WW's and 50/50 WW-Pb side-by-side into saturated newspaper with layered bones. The WW alloy boolit reacts very similar to a Nosler Partition. The 50/50 alloy acts more like a conventional bonded bullet.

[cbrick]

Rick, I guess I'm not making myself perfectly clear. I want hard boolit shanks and soft noses while using only 50/50 alloy during the casting process. MJ

I understood, was just trying to answer your question about annealing at the same temp they were HT.

[DanOH]

What if you had some sized and lubed HT'd bullets on hand during a casting session,
and just did a quick dip of the noses in the melt then set them aside to cool.
Would that be enough to anneal the nose?
Seems if you got the base too hot the lube would melt...

[cbrick]

DanOH, Welcome to Castboolits.

No, dipping them wouldn't work. It wouldn't get them hot enough to do any good. The amount lead/antimony alloys heat treat is based on how close to slump temp it is and how fast it is cooled. Annealing also is based on it's HT temp, how hot you get it again and then let it cool slowly.

Rick

[Naphtali]

Microwaves excite water.

[sniper]

Not to hijack or anything, but hey! 357Max.............I do soft-boiled eggs in a cereal bowl of hot water many times a week for b'fast and NO kaboom. 120 secs. on HI is right for me. Now, back to regular programming. Sorry.

How do you do that? My daughter blew up an egg in our microwave. Maybe the water is the difference. :confused:

[VTDW]

This thread really should be saved in a forum board called Best of The Best. What a hoot.:-D

MJ, I will pray for you brother.:mrgreen:

Dave

[leftiye]

Maybe y'all have a too powerful nukrowave and should reduce power. I've put boiled eggs in boiling hot water in the nuke to finish them off with no problem. Napthali, they excite about anything you put in them (cats......).

[dominicfortune00]

Speaking of microwaves, check this out.

http://amasci.com/weird/microwave/voltage3.html#fflies

Some pretty crazy stuff on there.