1st attempt at powder coat fail

[exdxgxe4life]

So I had a bad first experience of powder coating...

Here's the end result of one coat. For some reason I thought baking it would fix things, but obviously not.

147588

I tried applying a second coat, but it still wasn't sticking the way I had hoped.

My setup is very primitive, but I've seen it done with success (fortunecookie45lc). No powder coat gun was used.

I tumbled them with eastwood powder coat in a large margarine dish for about 3 minutes,. I know that a lot of people use harbor freight powder, but I wanted to be different and get "better" powder. Mostly because I'm vein and wanted orange.

I imagine I used enough powder in the dish because their was plenty of powder left over.

Here's a few issues I've read about that could have been causing this issue:


I touched the bullets to inspect them days ago, and maybe the oil from my hands caused it.
The bullets have been dry for days, but I did this all outside and it's a little wet out.
I didn't use any plastic BB's to maybe increase the static charge (fortunecookie45lc doesn't use these)


I know it's a lot of variables here, but if you have any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!

[rancher1913]

not all powder will dry tumble, go to smokes powders in the vendor section, he lists the powders that will dry tumble and the powders that you need a gun on. I strongly recommend using his powders as they are tried and true and his customer service is excellent.

[roberts1]

If you are trying to dry tumble and it is at all humid where you are working you can have bad results. I have to dry tumble in my house then walk them outside to the toaster oven. I tried earlier this summer to do it all outside when it was hot and humid and it quickly went south. My experience is with HF red using airsoft bbs in a plastic container. On the plus side you can still tumble lube and shoot those.

[Beef15]

Could add a splash of acetone.

[reddog81]

I think it is recommended that you use a Cool Whip bowl because it's is a number 5 recyclable container. Does your container have the 5 inside a triangle? The black bb's are supposed to help with the static charge I believe. Low humidity helps with the static charge. Certain powders are less sensitive to humidity and generally work better. There are a lot of variables...

i have only used HF black and smokes Blue powder. Smokes blue powder has been working much better than HF black. I have always used a Cool Whip container and black bb's. Those 2 items cost less than $10 combined. I only started a couple of weeks ago and it was 80% humidity outside and slightly less humid inside.

[fredj338]

Air soft bbs, everyone says black but green have worked fine for me. I have used HF red & smoke's purple & green, works fine.

[Yodogsandman]

All good advice given above. I'd like to add that those will probably shoot just fine.

[exdxgxe4life]

I appreciate all the advice. I checked and my container is a #5. I went and picked up some black airsoft BBs from Wally World, and luckily they were on clearance, half off!

So I brought everything inside the house to ensure humidity wasn't an issue. I went for coat #2 tonight and the results were better, but still less than desired. I took pictures with and without the flash just to see if the flash would show bare lead any better.

147649147650

Here's the look after tumbling for probably 5 minutes. I found these to produce a very thin coat, and hardly any would reach into the .38 lube groove (smaller bullet). The BBs I think did make a difference, but dang what a pain in the butt to pick out all the boolits instead of just dumping them. Hopefully you can see the darker coat #1 and then the brighter coat #2.

Then I baked them again (400 degrees / 20 minutes per directions). The coverage isn't perfect. Again (obviously) not in the lube grooves. The middle bullet shows the most promise, but still a pain.

147651147652

I'm sure I could do a third coat, but frankly I don't think I should have to. I know that my setup is very primitive, but at this point I'm thinking my choice of powders was poor, and I'll invest in some Harbor Freight red which I have seen work, or check out the recommended Smoke's powders. Maybe Eastwood, with their 100% guarantee will refund and I won't be out the $30 for 2lbs.

I might try the recommended acetone splash, but I've seen others do that and found it to be very blotchy and inconsistent coverage. However, it's worth a shot.

Again any tips or suggestions are still greatly appreciated.

[rancher1913]

smoke has a sample pack of 4 (your choice) colors in a flat rate box for under 20 bucks if I remember right--they last a long time.

[Gohon]

Not sure what you mean when you say tumbling but here is the method I use.

1. Use a Cool Whip container. I first tried several different containers with the #5 on them with not so good results.
Then I got a tub of Cool Whip, washed out the container and the results were improved 100%. Not sure what it is
about those containers that make them work so good....maybe the pigment of the white plastic but they do work.
2. Put about two layers of BB's in the tub and about two teaspoons of powder.
3. Throw in a handful of bullets....20 or so depending on size of bullets.
4. Using a swirling motion I swirl the contents for about 30 seconds.
5. Then I do a up and down shake for another 30 seconds. This up and down motion is very important.
6. Last I pick the bullets out and set them on a baking tray that has non stick aluminum foil on it.

Bullets below are a single coat of Harbor Freight red and yellow mixed 50/50.

http://i62.tinypic.com/24qoj0y.jpg

[Maximumbob54]

About the shaking... Shake those bullets like they owe you money. Seriously. When you start thinking it's the humidity, it's oily fingers, whatevers, just shake them puppies. Then shake them a little more. You don't need magic plastic, just shake them.

And don't try to shake anything but gloss powders. It's not worth the work for satins and flats.

[exdxgxe4life]

I will try the Cool Whip Container. The #5 I referred to was the type of plastic, which apparently Cool Whip tubs are the same. It can't hurt to try.

I can also try less bullets. I think I had about 50 in there, though I would think it's all proportional, but maybe too much in there is causing issues with getting a good electric charge.

I wish I didn't sell off my Lyman tumbler, otherwise I would be able to try that. Regardless I will try shaking it as if they spoke ill of my mother :)

[Gohon]

The picture of the coated bullets I posted were just done yesterday. They are 200 grain 45 caliber and I probable had 30-35 at once in the tub. 30 and 35 caliber I would throw in about the same and most likely 40-50 22 caliber. I think when I said 20 or so that may have been a little conservative on my part.

I tried other plastic containers with the #5 on the bottom and though others have said they worked for them, for what ever reason the Cool Whip brand containers just work better for me. Nothing magic about them but most who do the shake and bake swear by them. Don't know why they are better but they just are........good luck and keep experimenting....you'll get there.

[roberts1]

HF red is only about $7 if I remember correctly so not much of an investment to try to get it to work for you. I do agree picking them out is a pain as is walking a tray of them outside without knocking any over. It looks like you are getting closer to getting things worked out tho.

[bangerjim]

I have been doing this for over 2 years. All my comments below are based upon facts......not fiction.


Humidity is your biggest enemy. That is what looks like was going on with your picture above. I have seen that when trying to BBDT in an AZ rainstorm!

Some claim better coatings by rinsing in mineral spirits. I have not seen any difference.

The key is the triboelectric potential difference between the #5 plastic and the lead. The VERY tiny static charge is what makes the powder stick to the lead.

I still swear #5 plastic is the best. Round is the best shape I have used.....ever. Screw-on lids are HIGHLY recommened because you not only swirl for 30-40 seconds, you shanke up & down HARD for 10-15 seconds. That is the key.

But Coolwhip (the original we came up with a couple years ago) works the best due to bottom and side shape from all the MANY experiments I did.

I have had not success coating without black BB's. I have tested them all early on (I shoot ASBB guns and have all makes/weights/hardnesses/colors made) and that is why I recommend black to just elimiate one of the over 2 dozen variables that can screw up your BBDT success. Why guess at BB's when there are soooooooooo many variables in this voodoo black magic process.

If you want excellent coats every time, invest in an HF or Eastwood ESPC gun. Works all the time......every time. ESPC is my ( and MANY others on here) go-to method. I have 2 ESPC guns.

Good luck figuring out what works for your BBDT method.

bangerjim

[kryogen]

hey jim, did you have any success with PC in 9mm with straight WW alloy? Still leads for me.

[bangerjim]

I cast a WW-like alloy (~12) all the time for 9mm using a Mihec 358 NLG mold and a NOE 358 HP brass mold. The work great with BBDT and ESPC with no leading in 9 semi's and my 9mm carbine also. I size to both 356 and 358. Just received a new Mihec 359 NLG brassy in the mail!

I use that same boolit in all my 38SP and 357MAG loads also with no problems either! Not full mag loads.

Either TightGroup or ETR7 loads.

Those boolits fit my barrels perfectly. That could be your leading problem?

banger

[exdxgxe4life]

I did exactly as you suggested Gohan, but I got the same results. Other than the BBs, nothing I've done has really helped. I'll get some Harbor Freight red powder and follow up when I'm done with that.

147734

I assume it's safe to wash my last batch and BBs and reuse everything with a new powder coat?

Thanks again everyone! :)

[xacex]

I did exactly as you suggested Gohan, but I got the same results. Other than the BBs, nothing I've done has really helped. I'll get some Harbor Freight red powder and follow up when I'm done with that.

147734

I assume it's safe to wash my last batch and BBs and reuse everything with a new powder coat?

Thanks again everyone! :)
I had problems with the HF red coating this way as well. Something to consider, what was the humidity % when you tumbled these?

[bangerjim]

Guys...........if this only your FIRST try and FIRST FAILURE...........OMG! I played around with this and aligned and defined it for several months until I found out what worked for MY PROCEDURES.

Don't feel bad or expect it to work perfectly the 1st (or 21st) time. This procedure is not an industry-used method. The powder was not engineered to be applied by sloshing stuff around in an old dessert topping container to get it to stick. It is something we all literally conjured up to save people the cost of ESPC guns. It does NOT work everytime for everybody.

The pix you see on here are normally after much messing around and practice. And probably culled for the best looking ones?!?!? Only the very lucky few get it to look (almost) like ESPC after the 1st few (or many) times.

Keep on trying and changing/adjusting things. You will get there. I did.

banger

[kryogen]

my glock is .3558
I size to .357 once esPCed, should work.... .00012 over groove dia.
Minimal crimp to plunk, no scraping.

No reason to go .358 if I am already 1 mil over bore, uh? Or maybe I should just coat and bake another 100 at 358 and see? but that would be .00022 over groove, that's a little large isnt it, I don't see how it would help?

[bangerjim]

I do not own any glocks, have never shot any glocks or know anyone that casts for them. The manual says shooting reloads or cast voids all warranties.......so "THEY" say.

I have read there is something different about the rifling?

What is your load? Mabe a bit too hot?

That said, I know there are those on here that cast and shoot for glocks all the time. I would think 2 thou over should be good, and I would try it if you. I shoot 356 AND 358 in all my 9's. Mabe a successful glock owner/caster/shooter can chime in with info to help??

Good luck! Keep us informed what you discover.

banger

[Love Life]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?265460-Powder-Coat-Shenanigans

[kryogen]

The manual says shooting reloads or cast voids all warranties.......so "THEY" say.

Bah, cost was 700$ CAN... I could care less about the warranty. I could also just switch barrel if needed, but it appears that some have succeeded with the oem barrel.

[Love Life]

Loading cast for a Glock is the same as loading cast for any type of rifling/firearm. Fit, alloy, lube all need to be right for the application. All I shoot from my Glocks are cast and they all have the factory barrels. I get no leading and shoot to my hearts content.

Use solid and established cast boolit principles and shooting lead from Glocks is easy as pie. I like pie.

[hanleyfan]

no one mentioned this but you are baking at the recommended heat and time? check your oven temperature with a thermometer, not all ovens are accurate and can be off.

[Gohon]

My guess is it is not the method or humidity but the type of powder your are using simply will not work with the shake and bake method. Some powders simply do not work well with that method, even some of the Harbor Freight colors work better with the gun application. But the HF red seems to always work with this method. I live in Oklahoma and the humidity is high here but it has never been a factor.

[Gohon]

smoke has a sample pack of 4

Who in the heck is "smoke"?

[marvelshooter]

Who in the heck is "smoke"?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?241259-Hi-quality-Powder-for-DT-or-Spraying-bullets

[bangerjim]

Who in the heck is "smoke"?

Where 'ya been for the past 2 years? We all get our powder from him. [smilie=w:

[Gohon]

Well.... we don't all get our powder from him. I've heard the name mentioned before and I hear the powder he sells is good but unfortunately I had rather deal with a secure web site. I refuse to use anti-gun paypal, snail mail with checks is too slow and I'm not in the habit of giving my credit card number out over the phone. So....I guess if I decide to venture away from the Harbor Freight stuff I'm using I'll have to find another source.

[berksglh]

I use Rubbermaid #5 round cheep bowl with snap top, have used blue lighter weight and black 25gram BB's, all seems to work fine for me. Humidity never gave me an issue with #5 bowl, black BB's and smokes blue.

I have said this before, and it prooves that some powders stick better then others. I mixed HF red and some of Smokes blue to get a nice purple colored powder. After shaking, out come blue bullets.???

So I shook new bullets in red only, took the red bullets and then tossed them in a bowl with smokes blue. Shook, out came blue bullets.. Smokes blue will knock HF red clean off and take its place. Not all powders work the same.

I have also washed bullets in a solution of water and some degreaser soap, then dry well. They coat real nice afterwards.

I do 45ACP, 30-06 and 223. Swirl for 20-30 seconds and they have too much on them. Few shakes before opening the cover seems to knock off the excess and leave them nice and uniform.

[Stilly]

When I was only putting powder and bullets in my tumbler setup and rolling them in the powder, If I let them go too long they looked like what you are doing. I used to tumble them for about an hour though. The longer I tumbled the darker they got, after I forgot about the tumbling for a day, I went out the next morning and found that the tumbler did not stop and they were tumbling overnight. It was hideous. They were practically BLACK and NASTY and they started out neon green...

It took THREE coats to get them slick and to a point that I thought they might be okay out of a gun and they all shot fine.

Long story short, the BBs provide a buffer as well and keep your pills from getting dark. Those BBs do more than generate a charge (has that been proven yet?) they make your tumbling much more forgiving.

With that said, There are many colors out there that do NOT like to be tumbled. So be careful of what you get.

My setup: I use a square #1 container from Smart N Final (First Street storage) with a white threaded lid. I fill it about 1/3 with bbs now and put in a tablespoon or two of powder and drop in about 100 or so boolits. Then I screw on the lid, place it in the Thumler, put shop rags around it (suspension) and let it tumble for about 10-20 minutes. The results are NOT flawless, but more often then not they look VERY good.

Nasty nasty!
147827

Nasty on the right and better on the left.
147828

Yellow tends to be an HF yellow, but it sucks. HF White sucks to, but if you use it, mix in another colored powder with it to make it cool.
147829

Bling for my blasters... I shoot these out of the Glock and Operator. No issues. PC removes all LEADING issues. (as fas as I can tell anyways)
147830

[fredj338]

I will try the Cool Whip Container. The #5 I referred to was the type of plastic, which apparently Cool Whip tubs are the same. It can't hurt to try.

I can also try less bullets. I think I had about 50 in there, though I would think it's all proportional, but maybe too much in there is causing issues with getting a good electric charge.

I wish I didn't sell off my Lyman tumbler, otherwise I would be able to try that. Regardless I will try shaking it as if they spoke ill of my mother :)
There is avalanche of bullets to powder & bb. Too many bullets & it seems to slow the coating process. Maybe messes with the static charge? I shake about 20-30 at a time in a 2 cup ziplock screw lid container. Shake for 30sec, pick em out. My buddy dumps his on a 1/4" screen & gentle rolls them around, plucks them off with large tweezers.
i use wire drawer organizers. You don't even have to stand them up. The stick a tiny bit, but just shake the basket when cool, they pop right off. Coverage is great, they shoot fine, pass the smash test. I am using some of smoke's powder, HF, & some from another seller my buddy bought from. All work well with this methods.

[bangerjim]

When I was only putting powder and bullets in my tumbler setup and rolling them in the powder, If I let them go too long they looked like what you are doing. I used to tumble them for about an hour though. The longer I tumbled the darker they got, after I forgot about the tumbling for a day, I went out the next morning and found that the tumbler did not stop and they were tumbling overnight. It was hideous. They were practically BLACK and NASTY and they started out neon green...

It took THREE coats to get them slick and to a point that I thought they might be okay out of a gun and they all shot fine.

Long story short, the BBs provide a buffer as well and keep your pills from getting dark. Those BBs do more than generate a charge (has that been proven yet?) they make your tumbling much more forgiving.

With that said, There are many colors out there that do NOT like to be tumbled. So be careful of what you get.

My setup: I use a square #1 container from Smart N Final (First Street storage) with a white threaded lid. I fill it about 1/3 with bbs now and put in a tablespoon or two of powder and drop in about 100 or so boolits. Then I screw on the lid, place it in the Thumler, put shop rags around it (suspension) and let it tumble for about 10-20 minutes. The results are NOT flawless, but more often then not they look VERY good.

Nasty nasty!
147827

Nasty on the right and better on the left.
147828

Yellow tends to be an HF yellow, but it sucks. HF White sucks to, but if you use it, mix in another colored powder with it to make it cool.
147829

Bling for my blasters... I shoot these out of the Glock and Operator. No issues. PC removes all LEADING issues. (as fas as I can tell anyways)
147830

When you use a vibrator to do PC (not really needed), leaving them in causes the lead to sluff off and the PC turns darker the longer you leave them in there. A quick 30 seconds in a #5 bowl is all that is needed, not 30-60 min in a vibrator. I get 99% flawless boolits in 30 seconds. I tried the vib early on in my experimentation.

But what ever works for you.

[guncheese]

did some wadcutters last night
hardly 30 seconds of swirling
https://goo.gl/14U4H9

[edctexas]

I shot several H&K pistols with polygonal rifling and have no leading problems. I did find that it like boolits slightly larger than the normal rule of thumb.
I don't like the variation in thickness I get with BBDT. I usually size and then ESPC the boolits to get them just slightly bigger.

Ed C

[Walter Laich]

we do have a subforum for PC: Coatings and Alternatives that has a bunch of answers--may want to post there get more into
just saying...

[kryogen]

we do have a subforum for PC: Coatings and Alternatives that has a bunch of answers--may want to post there get more into
just saying...

Yeah and I must have 400 posts in it, just saying.
I have an ESPC gun and a PID controlled convection oven. I'm sick of that ****. It takes forever. I just want a star sizer and size 1000 bullets and be done.

[bangerjim]

Yeah and I must have 400 posts in it, just saying.
I have an ESPC gun and a PID controlled convection oven. I'm sick of that ****. It takes forever. I just want a star sizer and size 1000 bullets and be done.

All it takes is a lot of $$. Magma Engineering is right up the street from me and I am sure they will be more than happy to make you one.

If I did not have such great success with PC, I would be on their doorstep getting one.

banger

[kryogen]

Yeah, with all the addons, it's close to 1100$ CAD (bad exchange rate....)
That's the price of 11 000 plated bullets.
I might just try to get a regular basic one, and get the air kit from a member here, get the heater from eBay, etc...

[Kaiser Mike]

If you want a good idea of how the PC will hold up (I'm not a stickler for it being "pretty") I do three things.
One. Figure out how thick it is. Max would be .002. obviously, you measure a raw bullet vs a coated one.
Two. Hammer test. Put a bullet on a vice or the like and hit it squarely till you have a good compression. Did it hold or flake off?
Three. Torch that sucker! Again, put the bullet on a vice or something safe. Hit it with a torch. Best case scenario is to have the lead melt and the PC act like a "bag"...but hold.
Obviously, if there are any nicks, they will fail first.

If you can pass these three steps, its a good coating.
I'm still using HF white and yellow. White is thin color wise but holds nice. the yellow is kinda funky colored but, likewise, holds great.
I shake and bake as well. No 5 cheapie soup/lunch pails at the grocery store. Need to find some heavier tho. I kill them after about 4 uses.

[pakmc]

I live on the gulf coast and I have powdered coated all my bullets for the last couple of years. smokes powder is the best! but Im using HF now because of cost. I have to shake the HF powder about 2 to 2.5 minutes. Smokes powder only about a minute.l and yes, 30 seconds round and then at lease (minum)30 seconds up and down. I've had no problems with humidity ,even down here, but I'm now shooting Meisters bullets in a .327mag. and Meister bullets come powder coated.