anyone using blackhorn powder

[Lloyd Smale]

just picked up a couple jugs of it. Sure isn't cheap but I hear good things about it. Anyone here have any real world experience with it?

[handirandy]

Use it exclusively in my H&R Sidekick. Burns clean but is hard to ignite. It will not ignite consistently with a vented or sleeved breechplug. I use standard 209 shotgun primers. BP primers are too weak. Cleans up easily with Hoppes or any other type bore cleaner. I make Ed's Red which works great. Some complain about a crud ring in the "chamber" area after multiple shots but I have never experienced that. With 90 grains under a 350 gr. Horn. FPB it groups under 2" @ 100 and has dropped every deer I have dropped the hammer on.

[johnson1942]

thats all i use in my several side locks, my sons inline and my 2, 45/70/s. also use it in my two cowboy handguns. it is as accrate as real black, never have to clean between shots and the gun clean up easily when done shooting. i use mag sprark nipples on my side locks and hot 209 primers. remember it is 15 percent more powerful than real black so you can adjust your loads from real black. also when fired it leaves a very small amount of very fine dry dust in the barrel. this dust will aid in accracy from shot to shot and will help sabots load.im glad they invented it. real black is very very accurate but after years and years of wipeing barrels i really like to shoot now with out the wipeing. in my 45/70/s the accracy is as good as real black and not as hot as reloader 7 which makes it just perfect for me. i only shoot paperpatch in all my sidelocks and they load easily from shot to shot without wipeing. have fun.

[rbertalotto]

Yes, in cartridges......38-40, 44-40, 38-55 and 45-70....No issues, works great.

Great powder but quite expensive. Recently tried new Black-MZ, which is American Pioneer, which is Jim Shockey powder..(I'm told all three are from the same factory)...Excellent performance and much cheaper than 209......

[Lloyd Smale]

thanks. Ive heard its hard to light off. Anyone have hang fires with 209s in real cold temps?

[M-Tecs]

I have used it at -10 with 209's in a Remington ML with a Savage 209 breech conversion without any issues. I believe it is far and away the best of the subs in guns that use 209's.

[gtgeorge]

I have never had a problem lighting it with regular 209 primers. I did however have problems with the ML 209 primers before I started using regular shotgun primers. We use it in a couple inlines at 60gr by weight which pushes a 240-250 gr sabot 44 or 45 bullet very accurate with light recoil. Also reduces the cost as well as buying it in the large jugs.

Can't say how many pigs and deer that load has taken over the years. We do not clean either one between Aug15-Feb28 which is our small game season where we can hunt hogs on public land with them since they don't corrode. With T7 I got a ram rod stuck between shots with a heard of hogs in front of me thanks to the crud ring which was the last time I used T7.

[johnson1942]

one should never use shot gun primers made for muzzle loaders. they are weak and cost a arm and a leg. i get the hot shotgun primers and my accracy is x ring and the ft. per sec for the bullets are consistant and close. for my pistols the standard primer you use for 38 special and 45 long colt sets off the powder very well. i used to have but sold it recently a side lock i built, 50 cal with a 1/23 twist. it shoots a 686 grain pp bullet. through the chrongraph it hung at 1200 ft per sec and only varied 1 or 2 ft diff. it was 80 grains by volume. 209 powder is great powder.

[Gofaaast]

I shoot it exclusively in my 54 cal inline. CCI magnum shotgun primers have never let me down. I shoot MOA groups with 325 Barnes in my Knight.

[Fly]

If I had to shoot anything other than REAL BP I would find another hobby.
Not knocking anyone, just my feelings. Fly

[Pyro&Black]

Real Black and Blackhorn 209 are fine. What I will never use again are Triple Se7en and Pyrodex.

[rodwha]

Anyone tried BH209 with a starter charge of T7? I like that my guns all need just Rem #10's, but hear great enough things about this powder that I'd be willing to pony up the money for this expensive powder once to see for myself.

As it is I really like Olde Eynsford and Triple 7 powders for different reasons. It's only a pain at the range when I need to swab the bore after every third shot. I don't mind too much unless I'm on a range that goes cold often. They catch me when I'm pouring powder or some such and all I got to shoot was a handful of times. But it is what it is and I accept it as such.

[johnson1942]

the 209 powder works fine with a very light charge of blackpowder under it. when i did it that way i used a 380 pistol case full of real black and the 209 went off every time. talked to a shooter from the eastern seaboard quite a while back and he said a lot of the flinters at his club use 209 powder with great results with a little real black under it. that ought to make all the flinters groan. when i bought my chronograph sometime back the results were very very impressive with the 209 powder. not much spread on the ft. per sec coming out of the barrel. i did notice that the first shot on a clean barrel was somewhat diff than all the follow up shots, with out wipeing the barrel. if one was going for a really good target group i would fire the first shot not at the target but from then on with out wipeing go for the group you want. the very fine dry dust the powder makes helps the accracy.

[Lloyd Smale]

I shot 20 shots with it the 20th loaded as easy as the 2nd. Load was 100 grains with a tc easyglide sabot and a hornady 250 tipped bullet. the last 6 shots were a 1 inch and 1 1/16 inch group at a 100 yards. Clean up was a breeze. Hoppes on a brush 5 or 6 strokes and a couple patches and it was clean as a whistle. they have a new believer!!

[oldred]

Another plus for 209 is the lack of corrosion compared to the other subs, others have claimed such but we all know how that really worked out! 209 is different and as I have mentioned in the past I tested it on a couple of "two dollar" BP guns, left uncleaned for weeks produced only a grey-ish coating that brushed right off and the only rusting was around the nipples from the cap residue and a small amount of rust near the back of the chambers in a cylinder also due to cap residue.

[craig61a]

I use it for loading vintage 45-70's. I like the clean burning nature of it, and I get excellent accuracy. And yes, it is pretty spendy...

[FergusonTO35]

This is good news to me, I am going to pick up some Blackhorn at lunch today. I am shooting an NEF Huntsman .50 caliber with 250 grain Lee REAL boolits. I've always had good luck with Bore Butter as a boolit lube and bore coating. Should I continue to use it with Blackhorn? Or should I switch to smokeless lube and gun oil for the bore?

[johnson1942]

im still useing blackhorn 209 in all my sidelocks and my 2, 45/70/s. last winter i aquired a 45 long colt and i use it in that also. as far as a lube i paperpatch all the rifles with out any lube at all. the 45 long colt i use a 60 thousands stiff wad between bullet and powder. i do not lube the lead bullets i shoot in it. rheir is no leading at all. its a very very accurate powder and fills the cases in the cartridge guns. triple 7 can be accurate but the burnt sugar like crud ring is too much to clean. the thing around my area is 209 powder is very easy to obtain. why dont you try lee alox for a lube, its a great lube and bet it would help seal gasses so no gas cutting. should work with the 209 powder.

[FergusonTO35]

I'm going to use up all my BP compnents with T7 and then switch over. When I do switch LLA will be the first lube I try.

[dogmower]

just found blackhorn mz and started using it in my 577 snider (80 grain by volume). works great and EASY to clean up! love it!

[craig61a]

I loaded up some Blackhorn 209 for my 45-70 Trapdoor and took it out the other day. I've been using it exclusively for the past few months. My initial loadings were a little light, but I still got pretty good accuracy. I wanted to fine tune the load, so I upped the grains and went with 3 different loadings.

I ran the following:

33 gr. topped with 2 1/8" hard felt wads.
35 gr. topped with 2 1/8" hard felt wads.
37 gr. topped with 1 1/8" hard felt wads.

The boolit was a Accurate 461-405 30-1 alloy, lubed with beeswax, cooking oil and lanolin (55-35-10). I lit it off with a Remington 9 1/2 magnum primer, and the flasholes were drilled out .093 and uniformed with a Lyman flash hole uniformer.

All loads performed very well, with the 37 grain load giving the best group. The target shows the 33 gr load at the top, the 35 grain load in the middle, and the 37 grain load at the bottom. the 33 gr load was about 12" high, 35 gr load was about 13" high, and the 37 gr load was about 14" high @ 50 yds.

All together I shot about 30 rounds through the rifle and never stopped to wipe the barrel. Afterwards I just pushed 3 or 4 patches wetted with TC BP bore cleaner through it until they came out clean. I did my regular routine for cleaning after I got back home.

I used to run 5744 in my Traps, but I couldn't stand the unburned kernels in the bore. 5744 did give some good accuracy, too, and cleanup wasn't bad either. Blackpowder is somewhat hard to find in my area, so I tend to save what I have for my P53, Sniders, and Martini's.

Incidentally, the 37 grain load nearly fills the case leaving room for only one felt wad. Probably a more accurate load that what I can shoot with my old eyes...

152257
Top 33 gr.
Middle 35 gr.
Bottom 37 gr.

152258
37 gr. load close up.

[semtav]

All loads performed very well, with the 37 grain load giving the best group.
Incidentally, the 37 grain load nearly fills the case leaving room for only one felt wad.
152258
37 gr. load close up.


Ive been shooting 37 gr blackhorn in two of my rifles, the 45-70 and 42 Wesson with great results.

[johnson1942]

i dont remember if i mentioned it but i use 209 powder in my 45 long colt and love it. i use a hard fiber wad between powder and bullet. i compress it some and roll crimp. shoots very clean and very accurate. i use no lube on the bullet and never have any leading. i believe the hard fiber wad prevents leading. ive alway thought the 209 powder would be great an 45/70 or 50/70 trapdoors. i also think the 209 powder and a paperpatched bullet would work great in a trapdoor. a hollow based bullet would be my choise. i shoot paperpatched swagged hollow based bullets in both my 45/70/s. one is a cpa and the other a buffalo classic. im very very happy black horn 209 powder was developed.

[semtav]

i shoot paperpatched swagged hollow based bullets in both my 45/70/s. one is a cpa and the other a buffalo classic. im very very happy black horn 209 powder was developed.

One of the neat things I like about 209 and paperpatching, is one doesn't have to do anything special if patching to groove. I shoot them identical to my BP loads.

[frank505]

I've shot a fair amount in the 45 colt using a cci350 and 22 grains behind about any 250. Also a fun load in a500 Smith and Wesson with 35 grains and a Lyman 510680. Love the stuff for a medium load as it fills the case and accuracy is great.

[bignut]

Have you ever tried 209 in a 45-90?

[country gent]

Several on the local leagues are using it in 45-70 and 40-65 with good results. Ive never personally used it though. Look for published data and work from there

[blixen]

Will Blackthorn ignite consistently with cap &ball revolver caps? I use 777 in my Ruger Old Army because black powder can't be sold at my local gun store and I don't like Pyro. Heard good stuff about Blackthorn..

[M-Tecs]

Will Blackthorn ignite consistently with cap &ball revolver caps? I use 777 in my Ruger Old Army because black powder can't be sold at my local gun store and I don't like Pyro. Heard good stuff about Blackthorn..

No.....

[omgb]

Loyd, you and I have been posting here for more than a decade! I recently used 209 in an inline ML was impressed. I use it at a high altitude shooting camp for kids. The love the inline using TC Maxiballs or 50 cal RBs and a Hornady plastic cup/sabot. Last night I began loading some in my 32-20 cases. I use 11.1 grains by scale weight according to their (powder manufacturer) load tables. Using smal mag pistol primers that load under a 115gr. Lyman 311316 sized .311 shpould give me 1400 fps at about 14,000 pounds of pressure. That's good enough for my old triple lock and my M52 carbine.

[iplaywithnoshoes]

A sample load and group at 100yds from my Buffalo Classic in .45-70:

Lee 459-500-3R- cast and left at .461+-.002 filled with simple lube from the forum. Projectile is 475gr.
32.0 Gr BH209 under a 0.125" wad, pushing against a thin Bounty paper towel wad to separate the two since there is grease on the base:

193994

With some practice and case annealing, this should improve.

shoe

[freedom475]

This is one of the best powders ever made for the BPCR and the high powered in-line muzzle loader.

The facts about the powder are that it is factory assembled Black Powder and smokeless duplex powder.

It is a nitro smokeless powder mixed in the factory with KIK black powder to make a clean burning, ultra accurate powder!

In BPCR 45-70, 45-90 etc you can even obtain single digit velocity spreads by topping the powder with filler like Cream-o-Wheat up to the bullet..I promise!:Fire:

And this powder, Blackhorn 209, in the hands of Dave Gamble, just took 2nd place in the international, 26th annual, Quigley Rifle match in Forsyth MT!!!!! Shooting in some of the hardest shooting conditions imaginable out to 805 yards! This surely is the World Championship of Buffalo guns and the biggest match of its kind in the world!

647 guns, from 37 states, and 7 nations,lined up over two days for the the top prize... This is no small feat!:holysheep Congrats Dave![smilie=w: