Cast Bullets in the .30-30

[Comrade Mike]

So I'm looking at getting a cast bullet launcher in rifle form. I was thinking about getting a Winchester Model 94 in .30-30, putting a tang sight on it and loading for it. I really love shooting rifles and I especially love shooting rifles on the cheap. I think a .30-30 would be a great all-American choice that should play pretty nicely with cast bullets.

My bullet of choice is going to be MBC's 165 grain hi-tek coated .309 White Tail bullet.

Any guidance or recommendation on a solid .30-30 or loading tips with this cartridge?

[Digital Dan]

Do you cast bullets?

[Comrade Mike]

No I do not cast my own. I shoot pre-cast.

[MBTcustom]

No I do not cast my own. I shoot pre-cast.

You gotta stop doing that. LOL!
For an inexpensive shooter, you sure picked the right rifle. Use 10 grains of Unique (that's 700 shots per pound), and a 311466 FN Lovern style gas checked bullet of about 165 grains. Size those babies .310. Lube with White Label BAC 2500 or 2700 (find which works the best. Need a sample? PM me)
I drained an 8lb jug of Unique with this load when I was a mere lad of 17. COWW were free for the asking, and I had a lot of fun.
On that note, use COWW alloy and use the alloy calculator to add 2.3% ish tin to it. Air cool your bullets on the bench by dropping them onto an old T-shirt.
One thing you should also do is use a case mouth flaring die like is sold at NOE. Big accuracy advantage there.
Enjoy!

[Scharfschuetze]

The 30/30 is a great case for cast boolits. You can go anywhere from 32/20 ballistics to matching factory ballistics with the case.

I have no experience shooting coated boolits in my 30/30, but the usual Lyman 311041 gas checked boolit of about 170 grains will do just about anything a jacketed factory load will do as far as accuracy, range and velocity go.

A good adjustable peep sight, as you surmise, is a great help in shooting small groups and adjusting for different loads and zeroing at different ranges.

My two Winchesters get fairly constant use with cast boolits.

[Digital Dan]

No I do not cast my own. I shoot pre-cast.

There is a vast void in your life.

You may have success with the MBC bullet, or not...when you get the gun. The alloy is unnecessarily hard. I tried a number of production lead bullets over the years. None of them shot half as well as those I cast myself, and more than I care to remember weren't worth spit. Receiver sights rock.

This would be one of my .30-30s with the Lyman 311041, BHN around 12ish, velocity about 1750 fps. 50 yards it were, offhand. Think I'll go kill something with it soon.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Load342813_zps390020ca.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Load342813_zps390020ca.jpg.html)

[Fishman]

Once the brass is fireformed to your gun, don't overwork it. That is, just size enough so that it chambers and no more. This will extend brass life and if you arent hunting with it, fast cycling isn't an issue.

I have only slugged two winchester 94's but both were right on the money, .308 groove and .300 bore. Both of those would work very well with the bullet you are describing.

[44man]

Good choice. I bought a Marlin and it takes a fatter boolit of .311".

[243winxb]

A Lyman "M" die is needed.

[BCB]

I finally settled on the Lyman 311041 for all of my 30-30 Winchester firearms. All sized to 0.309" I've been O.K. with that diameter--try to keep it simple and use the least amount of equipment as needed...

The loaded round on the left is shot in my T/C 14” and the one on the right is shot in my Model 94’s and a 1940’s Model 336. It is shorter than the one shot in my Contender as it needs to cycle from the tubular magazine…

The one Model 94 that I have a side-mount ‘scope on will shoot less than 2” at 100 yards with consistency. The non-‘scoped ones will do about the same at 50 yards with the open sights…

The one shot in the Contender will hit beverage cans at 150 yards. And a life-sized groundhog at 200 yards—with a 24” holdover!!!...

I use WC-860 for the Contender load (1350 fps) and WC-852 (1755 fps). Not blistering, but still very effective on white-tailed deer at reasonable ranges—50 yards or so…

I also shoot light charges of Bullseye for velocities of less than 1000 fps—just fun to shoot at <100 yards at some small steel discs…

The brass in the pic has been reloaded so many times that I quit keep track of it! Just toss them when the necks start to split. The dark neck is a result of annealing as the necks tend to get pretty “squeaky” when pulled over the expander plug when sizing…

Good-luck…BCB

[mdi]

If yer gonna shoot lead bullets in yer 30-30, you need to know the groove diameter of the barrel and be able to purchase commercial cast bullets to fit your gun properly. When shopping for cast bullets make sure the maker/vendor specifies the diameter of the finished bullets...

[quilbilly]

No I do not cast my own. I shoot pre-cast.
For shame! but don't start. Its an addiction. That being said you can start casting for your 30/30 for 1000 rounds for about $130 initial investment plus the cost of lead but not including powder or primer since you already have those I think. That includes Lee 10# pot, Lee mold, Lee sizer, and gas checks. My 30/30 lever loves boolits from 130 gr plain base at 1200 fps up to 165 gr gas check at 2000 fps and all function flawlessly from the tube.

[Jackpine]

If you want to shoot with iron sights, obviously a longer sight radius will be a benefit. I have picked up a couple of the commemorative long barreled Win 94s for as cheap as the carbines usually sell for. Once they have been taken out of the box and scratched a little, most folks don't seem to want much to do with them. Put a Lyman 17a on the front and you will compete with most people shooting scopes, if you have a decently defined target.

Jackpine

[phonejack]

I shoot MBC's (165) in my Winchester. 16.0/ IMR 4198 is what mine likes best for hunting and 6.5 red dot for subsonic shooting.

[scattershot]

I have some 180s coming. Anyone ever shoot that heavy a boolit in the 30/30? Boolit is a RNGC design, rifle is a Marlin 336.

[mdi]

Jes a hint; check out loads and bullet data before you buy components. Personally, I wouldn't use a bullet that heavy, so for me to buy those bullets before I had load data it would be a waste of time and money. Get all the data/info before components are purchased...:mrgreen:

[bangerjim]

I only use 175-180's in my 30-06's. For the Winney 94, I stay at 150 max. Just me I guess!

Learn to cast your own! Lots of fun. I cast & shoot 30's from around 90gn to 178gn with excellent success.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I have some 180s coming. Anyone ever shoot that heavy a boolit in the 30/30? Boolit is a RNGC design, rifle is a Marlin 336.
I shoot a rcbs 180 round flat nose it actually drops from the mold at 192 gr with my alloy. The loaded round cycles through my Winchester 25" barrel just fine and it shoots better than any other boolit that I mold. I have 6 different molds for 30 caliber.

[gwpercle]

I use the Lee 170 grain flat point. I first tried the Lee 113 grain flat point but found the the 170 groups better. But they're all good !

Comrade Mike , You didn't hear this from me but you can get a Lee double cavity 30 cal. rifle mould from Titan for $19.49, that's complete with handles. Cast a few of scrap lead and tin, roll them around in some liquid lube and you will be the master of your boolit supply. It's fun !
" think of all the money you will save "....that's an inside joke.
Gary

[scattershot]

Thanks for the comments. I shoot 170s in the 30/30 usually, but just wanted to try something different. if it doesn't work out, I can use 'em in the 06, and go back to casting 311291s for the Marlin.

[toallmy]

Very interested sounds like fun .don't mean to cut in on you,but I have an old sears 94 that don't get used much.when I get ready to order j bullets I look at it and for the same price can get 3006 or 300 win .so it sets their it shoots 170 gr j bullets pretty good.i should get a mold and take it out for a walk sometimes.I got it from a buddy it the 80s for 50.00 could not let hem trade it in on a new gun for a 50 .darn shame.

[toallmy]

Very interested sounds like fun .don't mean to cut in on you,but I have an old sears 94 that don't get used much.when I get ready to order j bullets I look at it and for the same price can get 3006 or 300 win .so it sets their it shoots 170 gr j bullets pretty good.i should get a mold and take it out for a walk sometimes.I got it from a buddy it the 80s for 50.00 could not let hem trade it in on a new gun for a 50 .darn shame project.

[Cowboy_Dan]

I have shot the 311041 (176 gr. in that alloy) through my 118 year old M94 sized .310". I need to cast more of them to do some load devolopment, but the initial trial was promising. I love the buckhorn sight, and the barrel slugged within factory spec; .3082x.2998 by my micrometer.

[Electric88]

You gotta stop doing that. LOL!
For an inexpensive shooter, you sure picked the right rifle. Use 10 grains of Unique (that's 700 shots per pound), and a 311466 FN Lovern style gas checked bullet of about 165 grains. Size those babies .310. Lube with White Label BAC 2500 or 2700 (find which works the best. Need a sample? PM me)
I drained an 8lb jug of Unique with this load when I was a mere lad of 17. COWW were free for the asking, and I had a lot of fun.
On that note, use COWW alloy and use the alloy calculator to add 2.3% ish tin to it. Air cool your bullets on the bench by dropping them onto an old T-shirt.
One thing you should also do is use a case mouth flaring die like is sold at NOE. Big accuracy advantage there.
Enjoy!

Is that a typical loading that is somewhat consistent with factory loading? Or is it more of a light, subsonic loading?

[gnoahhh]

That load isn't comparable to a factory load, nor is it meant to be. It is a good all-around target/plinking load, super sonic but not by a whole lot. Goodsteel did you a favor by recommending it. It's classic. A big sack full of those cartridges, a jug of lemonade, and a balmy summer afternoon equals more fun than a human should be allowed!

After playing with god knows how many rifles and calibers in almost 50 years of shooting I have come to the conclusion that I would be quite happy with just .30-30s from now on. Heavy bolt gun or single shot target rifles for serious experimenting and lever guns for just plain fun and deer hunting. The .30-30 has got it all, in spades!

[zarrinvz24]

Reading this is giving me the itch to find a nice 194* Winchester 94. While looking for a canditate I stumbled accross the model 64. Given the choice, and using only 311041, would the model 64 be preferred over the 20" 94?

[Scharfschuetze]

would the model 64 be preferred over the 20" 94?

I'm a big fan of Model 64 rifles. If you're not using the rifle from a saddle scabard and you like a longer sight radius, a pistol grip as well as a fairly scarce rifle, then you'll love the Model 64.

This one is in 32 Special and has only see cast boolits through its bore. I shoot a similar boolit to the 311041 in it with great results. I use a Lyman Model 66 aperture sight on it.

[three50seven]

FWIW, I recently started using Acme Bullet Company's 155gr RNFP sized to .309 and TrailBoss in my Marlin/Glenfield 36G with great results. It is amazingly accurate and has a light recoil.

[porthos]

I've settled on 28-30 gr of 748 Winchester powder. started using this powder 25 years ago and haven't tried anything since. bullets are rcbs 165 siloutte and lyman 333291 sized .3095. tried lyman 311284 once and got 4 inch plus groups so I dismissed that heavy bullet

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I have always used Lyman #311291 at approximately 170 grains with a GC, sized at .310 and NRA old formula 50/50 alox-beeswax lube. I started with 25 grains of 3031 and worked up to 27 grains which gave me the best grouping in two 94's. Light recoil, burns clean and no problems. LLS

[Scharfschuetze]

I have some 180s coming

I think that you'll be fine with a 180 grain projectile as long as its crimping groove allows you to seat the boolit properly for magazine feed from a Model 94 or Marlin. Older Model 94s have a 1 in 12" twist which is fully adequate for it and I understand that the later Japanese made Model 94s have a 1 in 10 twist that will probably over stabilize it a bit.

[GooseGestapo]

IMO, the .30/30 is the best cast bullet cartridge for most purposes.
Of the dozen or so different molds I've used with the .30/30, my favorite is the first I ever used. It's the Lee 150gr FNGC. I've got two. The first is a circa 1975 single cavity that casts to 160gr w/ wheel weight alloy and gas checked. The second is a circa 1990's two cavity. It casts to 158gr. It has fractionally larger lube grooves and works better with full loadings.
I've used so many good loads it's difficult to say which is best.
IMR3031 @ 28.0gr, RL15 @ 30.0gr are two of my favorites.
Two things I strongly recommend are the Lee universal expander die (Lyman "M" for the purists), and the Lee factory crimp die.

[Comrade Mike]

Guess who is the newest owner of a Winchester Model 94? :D

And guess what I paid for it :D

[outdoorfan]

Hey, good for you!

A hunnert? J/K

[Frank46]

Have a Canadian cenntenial carbine with the octagon barrel. Stuck a lyman 17 front sight and a williams on the rear. I call it my lever action match rifle. Frank

[Comrade Mike]

275 out the door. Little surface rust and needs a new rear sight but I think she'll do just fine!

[Motor]

I have one 30cal mould. A Lee 160gr 2R TL. I use this boolit in everything from 30-30 to 30-06 including the Mosin Nagants. I made a "trim die" to flat nose it which works awesomely. The weight matching after flat nose even surprised me.

The accuracy has been very good in every caliber and that has not changed after converting over to powder coating. I shoot them in just about every configuration possible from sub-sonic to about 1900f/s in the various calibers and both in some.

My boolits flat nosed to .180" diameter flat and gas checked with a Hornady copper gas check weigh 168grs.

All this enjoyment from one mold. :)

Motor

[Comrade Mike]

So anyone out there using 4198 with cast bullets in the 30-30? I'll be shooting 165gn coated bullets from MBC.

I've also got unique and 2400 on hand with the Lyman cast bullet manual on the way.

[Motor]

Mike. I bought Trail Boss to try in the 7.62x54R and had no luck with it so I tried it in the 30-30.
It's and old Marlin 1893 take down model. I used Hodgdon's on line load formula and ended up going with 10gr. My boolits weigh close to 170grs (I shoot them single shot because the old Marlin likes to jam. So no need to flat point these.)
The old gal is a tack driver. I haven't chronographed the load but know its super sonic.
I know 10gr is on the upper end according to some data I've seen but according to the Hodgdon method it shouldn't have been and I can't really explain that. I do know it shoots great without gas checks and does not show any high pressure signs not even using large pistol primers.

Motor

[Bird]

I use 10g of unique, or 8.2 grns of green dot under a plain based 173grain bullet. Load info from lyman 47th or maybe 49th manual. Used this load for years, and is very accurate out to 100yds. Green dot groups slightly better, but groups 3'' lower than unique at 100 yds. You may run out of rear sight elevation with these loads. I use a tang sight and have just enough elevation. There is the possibility of double powder charges, so check powder levels.

[Hang Fire]

So I'm looking at getting a cast bullet launcher in rifle form. I was thinking about getting a Winchester Model 94 in .30-30, putting a tang sight on it and loading for it. I really love shooting rifles and I especially love shooting rifles on the cheap. I think a .30-30 would be a great all-American choice that should play pretty nicely with cast bullets.

My bullet of choice is going to be MBC's 165 grain hi-tek coated .309 White Tail bullet.

Any guidance or recommendation on a solid .30-30 or loading tips with this cartridge?

Just my opine, but the 30-30 cartridge is like it was designed for cast boolits. One can drive correct cast boolits at jacketed velocities with very acceptable accuracy.

[Tom W.]

My 30/30 is a Handi-Rifle, and after I had the trigger worked on it shoots really well. Believe it or not I have a single cavity Lee 160 grain gas check boolit mold and a RanchDog 2 cavity flat nose T/L mold. I believe it's 170 gr. Both my 30/30 and my 30/06 will shoot either one equally well. I tumble lube the Lee and dip lube the RD boolit, as it's easier to grasp. You gotta start casting. Everyone knows you'll "save money."[smilie=1:

[MT Chambers]

If i couldn't cast my own, sizing to the correct diameter, and using an alloy that will allow expansion.......I'd prolly use j-word bullets.

[Comrade Mike]

Well here's the 94 I've been talking about this entire time!
150934

So the bluing on the receiver was pretty much destroyed. So I stripped it off and sanded it down a bit. I tried to re-blue with Dicropan but it would not take a dark blue. Soon as I tried to polish it it came right off. It did leave that nice light oxide grey though which I actually really like. I think Im going to leave the receiver in its current color. I think it gives the rifle a little bit of character! I also added the marbles tang sight which I absolutely love. Ill be taking it out with my new .30-30 cast loads this coming weekend and we'll see how it does!

[scattershot]

Nice old rifle, good luck with it.