pound mold... nay or yay for my situation?

[LAKEMASTER]

so, im going to reload 30-06 in the future for hunting with ranch dog 165 gr bullets in my 760 game master. theres a pretty high chance ill paperpatch bullets so ive been seeing sizing and resizing seems to be the key to getting everything down pat...

should i take the time out to pound mold my chamber and see what a good starting resize die would be ?

i have realized, i probably wont ever target shoot or hunt past 200 yards... ive come down to earth with my personal practical self lol i would like to get some really good groups at 150/200 yards though.

[Digital Dan]

Dunno I'd bother with that. You do need to slug your bore to verify dims. If you want to do it right, get a .30 cal mould that casts to bore diameter. Patch to groove diameter and seat either to kiss the lands or the max of your magazine.

Sizing a .308 diameter cast down to bore is not the path to take if you want accuracy.

[LAKEMASTER]

maybe i said this wrong...

to verify, would it be wise do to this ?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?218414-FYI-This-is-how-I-do-a-pound-cast


pound "mold" and "cast" were poorly used by me...

[Digital Dan]

I understood what you were speaking about. Slugging a bore is a different exercise and one that is necessary if you want to load quality PP ammo. Paper patch is a different world in many regards and what is useful or necessary for grease groove bullets doesn't necessarily follow for patched. Think of them as jacketed bullets. Do you pound cast for jacketed bullets?

Your rifle is simple enough to slug, just start at the muzzle with a slightly oversize bullet or round ball. Use a short piece of 1/4" dowel to get it started and a flat faced jag or similar on your cleaning rod to push it thru.

If you craft your bullets properly you can drive very soft alloy and surprisingly high velocity...without breaking a sweat. You can of course size grease groove bullets to the required diameter but they aren't going to shoot well in all likelihood.

Look around, there are a bunch of moulds available that will do the trick for you.

147390

Target below is self explanatory. Pure lead, 300 grains, 1600 fps out the muzzle and shot with a Millett SP-1 red dot.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/627b4656-cd5c-45f5-a12c-e336e1f16dcd_zpsi3ucunrq.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/627b4656-cd5c-45f5-a12c-e336e1f16dcd_zpsi3ucunrq.jpg.html)

[mdi]

All information about your gun is good. The more you know about your gun the easier it is to shoot good groups. Perhaps a barrel slugging will be enough for your needs, but it surely wouldn't hurt to have the information/knowledge gained from a pound cast...

[LAKEMASTER]

so, i have a lot of old jacketed bullets from ruined military rounds. Can i use one of them for slugging ?

i didnt know what slugging was, so i apologize for my confusion lol

[Digital Dan]

No. Use lead, pure lead is preferred, but a bit of tin won't hurt. Oil your bore first.

[LAKEMASTER]

i was thinking that. i have some aluminum shafts at dads house that i can machine to be flat. but not have sharp sides.

[LAKEMASTER]

okay, dumb question, bullet nose down while inserting in the muzzle right???????

[Digital Dan]

Probably be easier. If it's a round ball, put the round side down? It's fairly safe to speculate that your barrel is close to .308 groove/.300 bore. Cut yourself a little slack and don't oversize it much. .310" diameter will work more than likely. You will find the most resistance when seating it at the muzzle. Once that is overcome it should move with little resistance. I've personally always preferred round balls for the exercise. Minimum fuss. If you have a cleaning rod that rotates freely in the handle, use it once the slug is inserted. You can also use a rubber faced mallet to start the slug with some gentle taps.

[LAKEMASTER]

Probably be easier. If it's a round ball, put the round side down? It's fairly safe to speculate that your barrel is close to .308 groove/.300 bore. Cut yourself a little slack and don't oversize it much. .310" diameter will work more than likely. You will find the most resistance when seating it at the muzzle. Once that is overcome it should move with little resistance. I've personally always preferred round balls for the exercise. Minimum fuss. If you have a cleaning rod that rotates freely in the handle, use it once the slug is inserted. You can also use a rubber faced mallet to start the slug with some gentle taps.

i asked cause i figured whatever end i hit will stake into the grooves. anyways, ill have to sacrifice a ranchdog bullet. lol

[LAKEMASTER]

so if alls im going for is accuracy, then i dont need to worry about specific OAL being determined by my chamber ?

[jaysouth]

Find a bass fishing buddy and find a bullet sinker that is slightly larger in dia than your barrel, probably in the 3/8 to 1/2 oz range. They are pure lead and can be pounded through easily.

I drive a sinker in the muzzle for 3-4 inches then punch it out from the muzzle. Then I drive one in the chamber 2-3 inches, then punch out from the muzzle. If the diameters differ, and they often do, go with the chamber slug to get the best measurement.

[LAKEMASTER]

i never thought of using a splitshot or egg sinker.

when (round ball) was mentioned i thought, "where the hell do i buy a 30 cal ball ? "lol

[Digital Dan]

You don't load shotguns do you? :bigsmyl2:

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Lead-Buckshot/products/65/

If done carefully one can determine max OAL for a particular gun in two steps.

1. Action closed, put a cleaning rod down the pipe all the way to contact the bolt face. Mark the rod, flush with the muzzle with tape.
2. Drop a bullet into the chamber, hold it in place with a pencil or dowel, repeat step one. Won't hurt if you have a little help with step two.

Measure the difference between the same face of the two pieces of tape and you will have your Max OAL within a few thou. The measurement is specific to that particular bullet. Do not assume it will work for others...it won't.

[mdi]

Don't overcomplicate barrel slugging. Use a chunk of soft lead a bit larger than the bore of yer gun. (sinkers work, but some can be pretty hard). Tap the slug into the muzzle a bit to get it started with plastic hammer/mallet, nothing steel. Once it's started use a soft rod (preferably brass or aluminum. Wood isn't a good idea as it may splinter and jam in the bbl.) to drive the slug through the barrel. Basically that's it. The soft lead will form to the inside dimensions of the barrel and you can get a very good idea of the barrel size so you can shoot accurate, leading free lead bullets

[LAKEMASTER]

You don't load shotguns do you? :bigsmyl2:

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Lead-Buckshot/products/65/

If done carefully one can determine max OAL for a particular gun in two steps.

1. Action closed, put a cleaning rod down the pipe all the way to contact the bolt face. Mark the rod, flush with the muzzle with tape.
2. Drop a bullet into the chamber, hold it in place with a pencil or dowel, repeat step one. Won't hurt if you have a little help with step two.

Measure the difference between the same face of the two pieces of tape and you will have your Max OAL within a few thou. The measurement is specific to that particular bullet. Do not assume it will work for others...it won't.


only bird shot, i never thought about buck shot. but after my 2nd cup of coffee and reading your post i see why its common.

[LAKEMASTER]

Don't overcomplicate barrel slugging. Use a chunk of soft lead a bit larger than the bore of yer gun. (sinkers work, but some can be pretty hard). Tap the slug into the muzzle a bit to get it started with plastic hammer/mallet, nothing steel. Once it's started use a soft rod (preferably brass or aluminum. Wood isn't a good idea as it may splinter and jam in the bbl.) to drive the slug through the barrel. Basically that's it. The soft lead will form to the inside dimensions of the barrel and you can get a very good idea of the barrel size so you can shoot accurate, leading free lead bullets

i have several aluminum and brass rods i can use. once i get this measurement, do i buy a sizer at the exact diameteror go .002 above?

[Harter66]

I hate being the curmudgeon. ........

In a perfect world your core for smokeless powder should be about .001 over bore (land)dia and your patch should be .001 over groove dia and be a friction slip fit in clean unsized brass.

My way flawed example I had a 7.62 x39 that slugged 305x3165,but would freely chamber a 323 GG boolit with a 318 nose. It was happy (as it could be) with a 314 core wrapped and sized at 320 .

I will also suggest that you check out the stickies in the smokeless paper patching forum and the Paper sticky in the BP paper patch forum which are now separated alphabetically BP at the top of this section and Smokeless at the bottom . There are well written tutorials with very clear suggestions.

The 301618 NOE reproduction of the NRA/Lyman paper patch bullet is a good choice to get you started fairly easily with your 06'. My 760 had an obscenely tight chamber and required very deep seating or a short patch as did a 2 groove 03A3 I had for a while.

Good luck.

[mdi]

For revolvers, go with the cylinder throat diameter (you can slug the throat the same way as a barrel). For rifle and semi-autos good place to start is .002" over, and normally yep, you can buy sizers .002" over groove diameter...

You've gotten a bunch of worthwhile info. but for a new lead reloader/shooter, K.I.S.S....

[LAKEMASTER]

Would it be wise to just start out at 001 higher then see what it yelds me?

If I decide not to paperpatch, would .002 or.001 be prefrred

[Harter66]

If you go with a Lee push through you may have .001 over stated size anyway.

I love the tag try it and see. For a couple of years I shot everything as cast and did ok . Sizing isn't an absolute necessity, it can improve things ,and in some cases you must . Just to keep it as simple as possible to start measure a spent case mouth go .001 under that and see what happens. Leading at the breach end suggests that a larger dia is needed leading at the muzzle suggests lube failure. Leading with paper suggests you damaged the patch .

It's a soft lead bullet with potentially 50,000 psi behind it .

Try something bring back detailed results and we'll point you in a direction.

[mdi]

Actually, I've read of a target shooter, Schutzen style, who ran bullets .005"-.006" over groove diameter. My suggestion of .002" is a good place to start, you can go up or down from there depending on what your results are. But, do what you think is safe...

[LAKEMASTER]

Actually, I've read of a target shooter, Schutzen style, who ran bullets .005"-.006" over groove diameter. My suggestion of .002" is a good place to start, you can go up or down from there depending on what your results are. But, do what you think is safe...

wouldnt it be safer to go slightly smaller dia then larger ? if my barrell produces .309 rounds after a test slug, would it be safer to go 310 instead of 311-315 ect?

[LAKEMASTER]

so once i have a slug pounded through the barrel, should i take an average off all the grooved ends ?

[Harter66]

Yes measure the high places on it . Take the largest dimensions and add to those .

If the bolt will close on it freely or with a faint bump you're ok . As I recall the 760 simply won't lock if there is almost any fit issue at all.

[LAKEMASTER]

ok now im second guessing myself. i basically cut one one of my bullets at the tip ( with 1 full groove left) and pounded that through the muzzle to the breach. theres only a few scuffs on the bullets so if i need to read the High marks i failed to get those to read/scrape down in the grooves.

[Harter66]

You should get 2 dimensions. They should be .300 x .308 . They can be from .295 -.302 and .307-310. I had an 06' that was .300 x .306 at the muzzle but that would seat and chamber .314. In reality the land groove isn't very much typically just .007-08 that's only .0035 on the boolit for each land groove. If you happen to get a last cut rifling paired up with a first cut bore reamer and an enthusiastic bore polish you potentially could have a .301 x .307 that's only .003 it's just not much to look at without at least a good caliper or a micrometer. The micrometer is prefered . Just run it down with the slip part of the thimble and read. When I use calipers I set them to the land groove and roll the slug to get them to the largest dimensions. I'm lucky I guess that my mic and caliper agree.

Maybe you're over thinking this ,it's also likely that I'm a lousy teacher.
Think more in terms of getting the new side by fridge (the boolit )in the back door around the cabinets circa 1952 (the bbl) . The fridge is 3 9" and the space is 3 7". (See how I left a space for the 0) the 39" fridge fits in the fridge space and the kitchen (the case and chamber) so all you have to do is open the doors and slide it past the corner of the counter (a rifling land) (moving the doors is just like the boolit getting formed to the bbl) . In the chamber you have 10-50,000 psi to shove the bullet (fridge ) down the bbl (past the counter).

What did you get for a measurement? Did it push through easy or hang up someplace?

[LAKEMASTER]

It went through easy after 3 inches down the muzzle. I have lost my calipers off all times so I'll be getting an accurate measurement later on. I think I'll redo the slug thing just to be sure. I'm positive the chamber isn't tighter then the muzzle, that I can bet money on

[mdi]

K.I.S.S. if you can. Read this and then come back with any questions...http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

[LAKEMASTER]

I did 2 slugs through the barrel, both came out as 308. So safe to say I'm good starting at 310?

[LAKEMASTER]

304/308.

Sorry I failed to mention groove depth

[Harter66]

I think 309 will work better if your numbers are correct but .310 will work if it will chamber .

[LAKEMASTER]

Do my numbers sound correct ?

[Harter66]

I had a rifle that should have been 303x 312 that was 305 x 316 .

That is pretty shallow rifling in your 760 but not impossible . The 304 sounds a little big but that is the least likely dimensions to get wrong on the slug.