Too big for sizer???

[ChrisK]

Ok, I'm pretty new to this and I'm getting a bit frustrated. I cast some .44 mag bullets and was using my Star sizer with a .431 die and it was sizing fine (sized a few hundred). Javelina was just too damn messy so I decided to heat up the base and use some Red Rooster (I've got the star mounted to an aluminum plate that is floated over the table that I put an Iron on to heat it up). The iron turns off automatically after a minute or two, so I can control the temp by lifting the iron up and activating it when the lube starts to cool and harden.

This contraption works fine for the first dozen or so rounds, I've got it warm and then the star locks up tight. The bullet will NOT go through the sizer (it's the same bullet I've been sizing all along). They are coming out of my NEI mold at around .433-.434. I'd love to size them to .432 but the sizing die came with the Star and I've been too cheap to buy another. Now the wife wants my raw lead gone (long story, that I'm not going into) so I'm essentially stuck with the .431 die. The bullet is in so tight that the handle begins to bend under force. I pop the sizing die out (the lube is warm and the die just slides out). So I'm not sure why the bullet stuck. I pop the bullet out using a vice and started over and the same thing happens again. I'm assuming the first dozen or so rounds were thinned enough with the previous lube that it worked fine and the Red Rooster is too thick for it, or the lead expanding with the heat and seizing inside the die. I really would like to use a hard lube to get away from the messy crud. Any insight?

[EDK]

YOU DO KNOW THAT the STAR requires you to run an already lubricated and sized boolit through after about a DOZEN ROUNDS OR SO. One of its' little quirks to drive the inexperienced to frustration and profanity!

Use a micrometer and measure some boolits. Obviously, the bigger they are, the harder to reduce in size...and hard alloy only makes this harder! (I got some foundry/linotype that was off the charts on my SAECO and CABINE TREE lead testers...and cast about .004+ larger than my usual alloys. Lots of stress trying to size those hard casts. Sound familiar?) You might need to check the hardness also.

I don't use much hard lube..or alloy either. A little heat helps the LARS 50/50 start flowing. I'm using the 44 full wadcutters from GLL's group buy most of the time.

Good luck....and welcome to I LOVE/HATE THAT %$$@## STAR CLUB

:redneck::cbpour::Fire:

[HeavyMetal]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you need more heat for the lube your using!

Here's how I see your problem: the iron get the lube in the base, where the injector mounts, nice and warm but it's not getting the lube in the resovior hot!

After you run a dozen or so boolits through the machine the hard lube(that isn't softened up yet) hits the injector system and refuses to be compressed Bingo your Star "sieze's" up and won't do no more! Reheat with the iron and it''s a repeat!

The iron is a good touch but you need to leave it on longer at a little lower setting and you need to mount a heat lamp to shine on the reservior or warm it up with a heat gun to get everything at the temp your rooster flows at! Try this and see what happens, also put a little Imperial sizing die wax on your thumb and roll a boolit in it every dozen or so will also help out!

In the end you may want to get the heater from Lyman.

[EDK]

+1 on the temperature. You've exposed another characteristic of hard lubes that I hadn't considered.

My current MIDWAY catalog doesn't show Rooster Red, but most Rooster products are at 210F or higher.

I have the MIDWAY heater under my STAR, but no longer use hard lubes.

You can get a pretty good discussion going about soft or hard lubes. All I know is what has worked for me in the past. I'm trying LLA on RANCH DOG designs in the near future, but that's another story.

:cbpour: :redneck: :Fire:

[runfiverun]

just shine your drop light on your tube with your iron on the plate
i did that with my star with the built in heater this winter
if i didn't build a fire in the garage, the bottom would keep heating and melt the lube
to a liquid and the pressure tube was froze cold.

bad words would follow, till i figured what was up.
just re-run one of your boolits every 10 or so.

[Lloyd Smale]

are you sure you dont have some bullets casted that the mold halves werent closed properly. I cant imagine having problem sizing any 44 bullet out of any mold ive used to 431. Now if you were sizing down to 429 or smaller i could see it. If your getting lube grove fillout on the proceding 10 bullets then it locks up id doubt if its a heat thing. the bullet going through the star like was said should be a lubed one every 5 or so bullets. Also my thoughts are that the bullet is passing through the die half way without lube then picking up lube and going the rest of the way. If it was working fine with javalina before id say its a good sign that that crap hard lube is just that crap. It isnt even doing a good job of preventing the lead bullet from gauling on the side of your die. Another thing that can happen is that if your die is new it can be a tad rough. MOst of my new dies take much more efford to size with until there broke in. What i do is when a die is new a use an arbor press to run 4 or 5 gas checked bullets through a die and then using the star run about 50 gas checked lubed bullets through the die. this tends to smooth them up and probably imbeds some lube in the microscopic flaws in the steel.

[Pepe Ray]

I'm surely glad to read this thread.
If I'd ever considered a Star sizer, I can put that notion to rest.
Waaay too many wrinkles for me. KISS is my motto.
Thanks very much.
Pepe Ray

[Cherokee]

The Star can be a pain for large bullets with a lot of bearing surface that require a lot of sizing. I use my Lyman/45/450/4500 for those. Some big bullets work fine in the Star but mostly for me, its 357 or smaller bullets. The Star can really rip through a pile of 357 bullets fast. I use an old Midway heater base and carnuba red lube. Contrary to what some people say about hard lubes - I do not have any leading problem with this hard lube for mild to wild loads in my guns.

[454PB]

Don't be too quick to blame it on the Star, I've broken my Lyman 450's several times trying to size large, long, hard alloy boolits.

I learned my lesson, and now use a press mounted sizer die to reduce .003" or more. None of the lubrisizers where designed to swage large boolits down, and sooner or latter you will break any of them trying to do that.

[runfiverun]

yeah,
i have run 5/5 mix 400 gr 45-70 through my star and no problems.
wasn't trying to take them down .005 though.
i have also [don't do this] sized j-bullets down .003 in mine
i do not recommend doing this even with imperial wax

[EDK]

You have to tinker with the STAR a little. Once you get it set right, it's mass production time! I have said AND will say again, any serious pistol shooter needs either 4 or 6 cavity moulds, a STAR and a 550B DILLON (or equivalent progressive press.)

I even got a .512 die for the STAR to lube boolits for my 50/90, anticipating using LARS' Black Powder Lube for smokeless also...I still have to try that.

I am using the same die, only altering the top punch setting, to lube everything from the GLL 200 grain wadcutter to 335 grain LYMAN 429649....and a bunch in between!

With the amount of information on this forum, the only problems you wouldn't have a remedy for are the ones you haven't asked for help on! I average two or more visits every day and learn something almost every time; occasionally I help someone else.

I like to reload, but I like to shoot a lot more. With a limited amount of time, like everyone else, the STAR and DILLON machines are priceless!

:cbpour: :redneck: :Fire:

[Lloyd Smale]

like the others here i had alot more problem with breakage with lymans that i ever had with stars. I size 512s all the time in mine with no trouble. Where you run into trouble is trying to take bulllets like 50s down alot. But then a lyman will bust alot quicker doing the same. Ive put millions of bullets through my star and the only thing ive replace is the lube pump spring and the lube resevour piston seal. Ive bent a couple handles but repaced it finally with a good hardened steel handle with a roller on it and its been there for years. I had 3 lyman sizers at the same time years ago and i dont think all three were ever up and running. thing is i size probably 4 times more bullet on the one star i have now then i did on all 3 lymans.

[Bass Ackward]

One thing is for sure, that sizer is seeing exactly what you other sizer, called your barrel, is going to see.

[Sundogg1911]

i'd mic it to see how close you really are in size out of the mould, and also a sized boolit. I've had sizing dies that are marked one thing and actually been different. My experience with Rooster red leads me to believe that you dont have enough heat. I really like rooster red (as much as one can like a hard lube) but it took a while to dial it in with my Stars. It does seem to require a little more heat than some of the others that I use like the Magma commercial hard lube. I recently busted the handle off of a phelps sizer (Star clone) It had a cast alloy handle. I couldnt find a replacement , but was able to make one using a socket with a set screw, and a 1/2" breaker bar. Now all I need is time to use it again!