9x57mm Mauser

[bearmn56]

Just joined the ranks of .35 caliber rifle cast bullet shooters. My gunsmith just finished my 9x57mm Mauser on a '98 Mauser action. Most 9x57s are .356"+-. We decided to make this one so it could use standard .358"bullets. We chose a .358" bore, 1-14 twist, 24" Wilson barrel. I intend to shoot cast bullets in this rifle exclusively.
I found some Lyman #358009, 290gr Cast GC bullets on Gunbroker.com from Vern Anderson. I bid on and ordered 300 of them.
I researced various sources including Cartridges of the World, old Lyman manuals and old European catalogs that either listed ballistics or reloading data or both.
The old 281 gr RWS loading @1920fps caugt my eye. An old Lyman reloading manual listed the 9x57 Mauser and data using 4064 with the 280gr jacketed bullet.
I used this data as a reference and worked up a load for the 290gr CGC bullets. I was able to achieve 1920fps with 42.0 gr of Accurate Arms 4064. Pressures appear to be very mild. This powder fills the case to near the base of the bullet, so loading density is good. Extreme spread is very good, remaining under 50fps.
I have a 25 yard range here at my house in rural Montana. This load shot extremely well at this range with all groups 1" or under. Several groups were clover leafs. Amazingly, this ultra smooth Wilson barrel (Wilson claims that all of their barrels are lead lapped at the factory) DID NOT LEAD, even at 1900+ fps. I fired some strings of up to 20 bullets with no signs of leading.
I tried some Lyman #358318 250gr GCs. However, the accuracy on these bullets was somewhat dissapointing (1.5-2.5" @ 25yds). The initial velocities were in the 2100fps range, again with no leading. I am going to try some traditional loads in the 1300-1400fps range using Unique, or some other powder in this burning rate range. Hopefully, at this lower velocity, accuracy will be better. At the 2100fps velocity, I noticed some tipping of the bullet, as evidenced by ovaled bullet holes in the targets. The bearing area on this bullet is small compared to its length. Will post more later as time and weather permit.
(It is "springtime in the Rockies" right now and the weather is all over the place).
Am also going to try the 206gr GC Lymans as well.
With the HUGE increases in component prices, using cast bullets makes a lot of sense, especially as I shoot several thousand rounds a year.
Bill
Montana Territory

[MT Gianni]

Great thing to own. I'm in Whitehall and shoot a 356 Win and a 335 Whelen. Welcome to the site. Gianni

[Hipshot]

Bearmn56,
I have a .358 Win. and load the Lyman 358318 at 240 gr. (I didn't cast them) in front of 17 gr. of 2400 with a Rem. 9 1/2 primer. This load shoots EXCELLANT in my rifle at 50 yds.-ususally 1/4 to 9/16"! Yeah, I'm not bulls--ying you. I couldn't believe it myself. The same load behing a cast 311291 in my 30-06 does almost as well. Vel.------? but C.E. Harris states it will be around 15-1600 fps.

[Prodigal Son]

Bearmn56,
I have an original 9x57 on a GEW small ring 98. It was built in the 20's to thirty's. Its an express style rifle. I have been trying to find some cast to shoot in it and have not got the right load yet. I have the 358315 200 gr. GC, and some 250 gr. GC RN, which I have not got to group yet. Will try some of the loads seen here! Welcome aboard, Otis!

[Nelsdou44]

I would think the loads for the 9.3x57 Mauser would be very similar for the 9x57.

My 9.3x57 is also 14 twist. A promising load using 270g hard cast is a full cartridge of AA4350, no leading, and velocity in the 1900 fps range. Boolits cut the paper at 100 yds with no evidence of tumbling.

I like the Accurate Arms powders. Sounds like AA4064 is another good choice.

Nels

[bearmn56]

Well, the Montana hunting season is finally over. I hunted exclusively with the 9x57 this year. As I wrote earlier this year, I was working with other cast bullets besides the 358009 290 grain. I was never able to get satisfactory performance from the 200 or 250 grain cast bullets. I tried Unique, IMR 3031, H4350 etc, etc. Nothing seems to make thes bullets give satisfactory accuracy at 100 yards.
On the other hand, the 358009s that I get from Vern Anderson are cast rather soft, according to Vern, in the 12.5 Brinnel range, shoot very well. My rifle has a Lyman 48 Mauser peep sight with Target Knobs. This gun will shoot 2.5" groups at 100 yards using the '009 CGC bullet and 42gr of AA4064 (from a rest).
Anyway, I shot a nice small white tailed buck with this load. Performance was excellet. A lung shot behind the shoulder. The deer ran about 40 yards and piled up in a heap. Penetration was through and through, so unfortunately I was unable to recover the bullet. This big blunt round nose punched a visible round entrance wound that one could put a finger into. The exit wound on the opposite side would take two fingers. So, there was some expansion. I butcher all of my own animals and upon skinning there was some small amount of blood shot area around the entrance and exit holes but NO meat was lost.
I had a cow elk tag this season, but just wasn't able to connect. We had a VERY warm hunting season that kept the elk in the high rough country where I hunt. Can't wait till next season to try again for elk using the 9x57.:grin:
I am very satisfied with this rifle's performance with the 358009 cast bullet. In fact, I am going to use this load exclusively for everything. After all, isn't this what we are all looking for?: Good power, good accuracy and good fun?

Bearmn 56
Montana Territroy

[Ben]

Now you need to find you a 358009 mold.

Good Luck..........

Ben

[No_1]

That is a great report. A few years back a table at a gunshow I attended had a few old mauser sporters on it. I bought the sporter Siamese in 30-40 krag and almost bought a 9x57 but had second thoughts because the reciever had "claw mount" bases dovetailed into it but no scope mounts (which are about as easy to find as gold plated hens teeth). He offered a 20rd. box of factory 9x57 Kynoch (sp?) ammo and dropped the price to $300 to sweeten the deal but I just could not see it at the time. I sure wish I would have bought that one now that I think of it.

Robert

[Bullshop]

Excellent most excellent!!! We were fortunate to have gotten a 9x57 recently too.
Have not had time to play with boolits but did put some old stock Barns origonals through it with excellent results. We have not yet measured the twist but the barrel slugged .358" groove. Being an 35 Whelen fan I like this caliber.
How are you forming your brass? I found it easier to fireform 8mm than to try to expand necks in a die. I think I used some bare naked as cast group buy 250gn on about 15gn red dot in fired cases. That gave perfect cases with no wrincles. A little more cost but not much differance when you consider that even with die expanded necks there will also be a fire form first loading. Likely the best thing will be to just shorten 35 Whelen brass. Problem there is we dont yet have a 9x57 die.
If you run short and cant resupply your boolits we have that Lyman mold and the group buy Bator mold for about the same weight but with flat nose.
BIC/BS

[bearmn56]

Bullshop,
Case forming is very easy. I have a Redding two die set. The sizing die has a tapered expander in it. However, I like to run my Winchester 8x57 cases tru a 30 to 338 expander first. Then use the Redding sizer to expand the neck the rest of the way and full length size. Headspace for the 9x57 is identical to the headspace on the 8x57, so no adjustment of the sizing die is required. Case length of the 9x57 is a little over 2.1" vs the 2.2+/- of the 8x57. The 9x57 cases require just a little trim and VIOLA we are done. Just prime, neck flair for the lead bullet, put in the powder charge, seat the bullet to the correct depth for the throat and SHOOT. My best accuracy with the big blunt cast round nose came with the bullet just touching the leade into the rifling. Every rifle will probably be different so a little experimentation is in order.
Good Shooting,
Bearmn56
Montana Territory

[bearmn56]

I finally got some decent groups out of the 358315 and 358318 bullets. Ten grains of Red Dot gives about 1200fps and 25yd groups are less than 1/2". Eleven grains of Herco and Green Dot give the same velocity and groups. These loads also have a 5/8" square tuft of 1/4" polyester batting that I get from a local sewing store over the powder. The shot to shot variation is very good...running under 50fps. I am sure that these loads will give good groups at 100yds BUT the trajectory will be a rainbow. The weather is real ****ty right now here in Montana, so decent accuracy testing will have to wait til spring. Right now I am considering these two bullets to be plinkers as the velocity is too low to use as an all around hunting load. I will still use the 358009, 290gr bullets at 1900+fps for my hunting.
Bearmn56
Montana Territory

[badgeredd]

bearmn56,

I just finished a Mauser chambered for a wildcat that is very similar to the 9x57. I have initially tried some RCBS 35-200 boolits in it. Surprisingly, I started with a load that may be of some use to you too. It is 47 grains of IMR4320. My wildcat is basically a long neck 8x57 necked up to 35 caliber. My barrel is a 1-15 twist.

Good luck and I'll be watching for more on the 9x57.

Edd

[bearmn56]

Badgeredd,
Strangely enough, the major problem that I had with the 358315 and 358318 bullets was keyholing. They were not holding to the rifling. I bought these bullets to try from a cast bullet supplier and don't know for sure their hardness. They are both sized to .358". The 358009s that I have are sized to .359". Per Vern Anderson, the 358009 bullet supplier, this diameter seems to be best for most 35s. Anyway, the first two bullets work best with lower velocity. One load that I tried with the 358318 250gr was 43gr of IMR 4320. This load showed tipped bullets at 25yds and actually, this was the last load that I tried before I was convinced that the bullets were skidding on the lands and grooves and weren't stabilizing.
I must say that the 358009 at 290gr and 42.0gr of AA4064 has been marvelous. One hole at 25 yds and 2.5" at 100yds.
This wildcat of yours sounds real interesting. I like longer necks as they allow seating of cast bullets completely into the neck without the base sticking into the case body.
Keep us posted on this project
Bearmn56
Montana Territory

[Hipshot]

Just a note on forming brass in my .358 Win. I use Hornady dies with an eliptical (tapered) expander.
I lube the case with spray lube (Lyman or Hornady) and spray the brass on a downward angle while standing up on a large piece of cardboard. This allows SOME of the lube to get INSIDE the case neck which makes neck expansion easy !
After I have done that and any other case prep steps that I think necessary, I tumble the cases which removes whatever lube from inside the necks.
Using this method I find any additional fireforming really isn't necessary !

Hipshot

P.S. Yeah I know a .358 in not the same as a 9 X 57 ! The 9 X 57 should be even easier to form as you are going up 1 MM as I am going from .308 to .358 !

[kevan]

Would this Lyman # 358009 mould be the same or similar to the old Lyman
# 3589 mould ?
I'd be interested to know how those bullets would work in the 358 Win because they work well in the 35 Whelen as well as the 9x57...

[nicholst55]

P.S. Yeah I know a .358 in not the same as a 9 X 57 ! The 9 X 57 should be even easier to form as you are going up 1 MM as I am going from .308 to .358 !

Not to hijack the thread, but the last .35 Whelen brass I got began life as .270 Win brass. I first ran it through a .280 Rem NS die, and then through the Redding .35 Whelen die, which has the tapered .28-35 expander. I lost a few pieces of brass trying to expand it from .270-.358, but didn't lose any after I began necking it up to .280 first. One advantage to starting with .270 brass is that your Whelen brass ends up very close to the right length, unlike when you begin with .30-06 brass.

At any rate, THAT will stretch the brass some! I annealed it after sizing, and haven't lost any so far.

[Junior1942]

Just joined the ranks of .35 caliber rifle cast bullet shooters. My gunsmith just finished my 9x57mm Mauser on a '98 Mauser action. Bill
Montana Territory

Please give us a cost break down of each step, and also give us a total cost.

[bearmn56]

Kevan,
Yes, the two moulds are the same. Lyman standardized all of their moulds to six figures. So the 3589 became the 358009. This is a great bullet packing lots of punch. I plan on Elk hunting with this bullet in my 9x57 next year.
Bearmn56
Montana Territory

[bearmn56]

Now that the Montana Big Game season is grinding to a halt, I thought I would publish another update on this years hunting.
Montana requires a drawing process be followed for several big game species. My goal this year was to shoot a cow elk with my 9x57 Mauser. Unfortunately, I did not draw a cow elk tag.
I hunt from my home here south of Helena. This is heavy timbered country and mountainous. Perfect for an iron sighted '98 Mauser in the venerable 9x57. However, retreiving big animals from this country can be a serious chore....one that I do not take lighly at 64 years of age (even thought I am in excellent physical shape). In some places one should bring a frying pan and eat the elk on the spot......as getting him out is near impossible.
With that said, I made my decision to not go after a bull in the thick, rough stuff....if I had the opportunity to take one in a reasonable place, I would do so.
This did not happen......(incidentally, most of my neighbors that had cow elk tags filled them.)
This past weekend, I decided it was time to fill my deer tag. Despite some serious depradation by mountain lions in this area (we discovered at least one lion kill in our hunting area), I was able to find and shoot a very large white tail deer doe.
The 9x57 performed wonderfully........ I had to take a moving shot, thru the timber at about 60 yards, with the deer quartering away to the left. The big 292gr 358009 bullet hit the deer at the front of its left rear quarter, nicking the pelvis. The bullet traveled forward thru the paunch, thru the right lung and exited out the right side of the neck. The doe ran about 35 yards!! and piled up.
When I butchered the deer, I found a large chunk of the bullet lodged in the right shoulder.......so, hitting the front of the pelvic bone caused the bullet to shed the piece that I recovered in the shoulder. There was virtually no blood shot meat to be trimmed.
I am a meat hunter.......yeah, I have some nice antlers from years ago...but now meat is my primary objective. There is a local place here that makes wild game into wonderful goodies of all types. This deer is, at this moment, being made into some delicious spicy German sausage.
I am also including some pics of the rifle and cartridge. The sight on the rifle is a Lyman 48M with Target Knobs. I had Dennis Erhardt of Frontier Gunshop put on the Oberndorf style pear shaped bolt handle. The front is a New England Custom Guns banded ramp. The stock is one from an Argentenian Engineering carbine. I liked the straight grip...... It was free... ;o)....The butt plate is steel...standard mauser. It weighs around 7 lbs. I shot some 1.5-2.0" groups when I was checking the sight in before the season. As I noted previously in other posts the velocity is around 1850-1900fps.
All for this year..
Bill
17389

17390

17391

[StarMetal]

Now that the Montana Big Game season is grinding to a halt, I thought I would publish another update on this years hunting.
Montana requires a drawing process be followed for several big game species. My goal this year was to shoot a cow elk with my 9x57 Mauser. Unfortunately, I did not draw a cow elk tag.
I hunt from my home here south of Helena. This is heavy timbered country and mountainous. Perfect for an iron sighted '98 Mauser in the venerable 9x57. However, retreiving big animals from this country can be a serious chore....one that I do not take lighly at 64 years of age (even thought I am in excellent physical shape). In some places one should bring a frying pan and eat the elk on the spot......as getting him out is near impossible.
With that said, I made my decision to not go after a bull in the thick, rough stuff....if I had the opportunity to take one in a reasonable place, I would do so.
This did not happen......(incidentally, most of my neighbors that had cow elk tags filled them.)
This past weekend, I decided it was time to fill my deer tag. Despite some serious depradation by mountain lions in this area (we discovered at least one lion kill in our hunting area), I was able to find and shoot a very large white tail deer doe.
The 9x57 performed wonderfully........ I had to take a moving shot, thru the timber at about 60 yards, with the deer quartering away to the left. The big 292gr 358009 bullet hit the deer at the front of its left rear quarter, nicking the pelvis. The bullet traveled forward thru the paunch, thru the right lung and exited out the right side of the neck. The doe ran about 35 yards!! and piled up.
When I butchered the deer, I found a large chunk of the bullet lodged in the right shoulder.......so, hitting the front of the pelvic bone caused the bullet to shed the piece that I recovered in the shoulder. There was virtually no blood shot meat to be trimmed.
I am a meat hunter.......yeah, I have some nice antlers from years ago...but now meat is my primary objective. There is a local place here that makes wild game into wonderful goodies of all types. This deer is, at this moment, being made into some delicious spicy German sausage.
I am also including some pics of the rifle and cartridge. The sight on the rifle is a Lyman 48M with Target Knobs. I had Dennis Erhardt of Frontier Gunshop put on the Oberndorf style pear shaped bolt handle. The front is a New England Custom Guns banded ramp. The stock is one from an Argentenian Engineering carbine. I liked the straight grip...... It was free... ;o)....The butt plate is steel...standard mauser. It weighs around 7 lbs. I shot some 1.5-2.0" groups when I was checking the sight in before the season. As I noted previously in other posts the velocity is around 1850-1900fps.
All for this year..
Bill
17389

17390

17391

Excellent excellent excellent. I was debating getting a 9.3x57 and I believe you just clinched the deal for me. They are very close calibers. Great hunt, congraduations.

Nice rifle too!

Joe

[Mk42gunner]

I recall seeing a 9X57mm Mauser at Wiesser's in San Diego, twenty years ago. Not sure if it was an original sporter or not; but I am leaning towards not because the price was pretty low. Low enough that I thought seriously about it. I decided not to because I was living on the ship, and didn't have a place to load for it. I wish now that I had bought it.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Robert

[Bullshop]

Bearmn56
Please let me send you some boolits from a new design mold. It has worked out so well for us. My son got his moose with it this year using a 35 Whelen.
We have tried it in 357 Herrett, 35 Rem, 358 Win, 9x57, 35 Whelen and 358 Norma and in all has been outstanding. I would like for you to try some and report on them.
I just got my American Rifleman and see this new cartridge from Federal, the 370 Federal. Anybody got one yet? I just yesterday started shooting a 375 Scovill I got from Onceabull. Good things so far. I have ordered a mold in 375 cal on the same design as our 35 cal. Hope it works as well. I think the 375 Scovill and the new 370 Federal are going to be very similar in performance.
Much much work to be done and lots of boolits to be fired to be sure.
I do prefer cartridges that I can make from 06 cases though like the 35 Whelen, 9x57, and the 375 Scovill. We don't find many 9.3's lying about at the gravel pit.
BIC/BS

[MT Gianni]

Who is your local meat shop?

[JDBrowning]

Great to see comments on the 9x57. I have a Husqvarna 9x57 on a M98 action made in 1929. It shoots hard and kicks hard, weighs in at 6 lb 1 oz but is a joy to carry. Glad to see the good comments on the 358009, have one on order in the group buy from NOE.