Correct Use of Patches?

[alamogunr]

I've been cleaning guns for many years. I've never seen an explanation of the (more) correct way to use patches thru the bore. Cleaning kits come with both jags and loop type patch carriers. Most of the jags have a pointed pin on the end to hold the patch. I've always pierced the center of the patch and run it thru the bore. I've seen some explanations that recommend piercing a corner(sq. patch) and wrapping around the jag. This has not worked well for me.

When using a jag & patch that is supposedly the correct size for the bore, It is almost always very difficult to push thru the bore.

I have at times, wrapped a patch around a brush and relied on the brush bristles to retain the patch. This is the only method that retains the patch if it is pushed out the end of barrel.

The reason I asked the question is that I have been cleaning an old military rifle that had shot corrosive ammo and not cleaned. It was so bad that I tried to use hot soapy water to run in and out the barrel. A tight patch would not reverse in the bore. I assume that the corrosion was so bad that it would not allow reversing. I have finally gotten the barrel clean enough that the patch wrapped around the brush will reverse. I think the brush is worn down to where its use as a patch carrier is all I can use it for.

Any posts of your preferences will be appreciated.

[Bigslug]

I'll use a jag if the patch will fit, or an eyelet tip if it won't. The eyelets are better for spinning a patch in the chamber of a bottlenecked cartridge. Since the brush and solvents are what's doing the work, and the patch is mostly just a final mop, I don't have a huge preference. Wrapping patches on brushes is a good way to kill a brush, so I reserve it for either brushes that are already dead, or if that's the only option at hand.

[lobowolf761]

I center the jag on the patch that is soaked with whichever bore cleaner is needed for the job at hand and slowly push it down the bore to thoroughly soak it. I take that patch off when it gets to the other end and remove the cleaning rod from the barrel. I believe that doing it this way gets the cleaner evenly into the bore so it can do its job. I let the solvent soak in for a short while then run a bore brush through a few times to really loosen things up. I then run a bore snake through a few times and then check the bore. I repeat the process as needed to get the bore as clean as I can. Once satisfied I then run an oily patch down the bore then a dry one to remove excess oil in the bore. Whenever I finish shooting any of my milsurps I just use a Hoppes boresnake to clean the chamber and bore and the rest of the rifle as needed and put a light coat of oil on before putting it up.

[Scharfschuetze]

I've found that the most effective jags for cleaning are the old Parker Hale style of jag. They provide maximum patch contact with the bore. I use them in every calibre that they are available for. With these jags you wrap the patch around the jag so they work not only well in the bore, but for mopping out your chamber as well.

For what you are doing, cleaning an old and neglected bore, the patch over the brush is probably the best and most effective means. Brushes wear with use and are thus expendable. I buy them by the gross and expect to replace them fairly often, particularly in the competitive and hunting seasons when I'm putting a significant number of rounds down range.

You might also consider some of the various solvents optimized for different fouling such as the copper solvents as well as the powder solvents. There are a few threads here on making effective solvents for your purpose and Ben's Red comes to mind. Tops Engine cleaner with Kroil Oil works well and I also like Shooter's Choice solvent mixed with 20% Kroil Oil for everyday use.

Another two options that will get that bore clean are JB's Bore Paste and Witches Brew. Both contain a mild abrasive and will strip away fouling from the bore quite effectively. Used on a Parker Hale style jag, they'll make quick work of your problem.

PS. Don't use the copper solvents like Sweet's 7.62 with any of your brass brushes or jags. It'll dissolve them most ricky tick.

[Hawks Feather]

I have gone to round patches and if the first is difficult to push through I move the patch slightly off center. The further away from the center that I go the less resistance there is. I only push patches through and out and don't go back and forth with them. I will make back and forth passes with a brush.

[Pilgrim]

I buy white (or light yellow) flannel at whatever store I'm near when I want patches I cut the flannel into ~2" strips and then cut the strips into 2" squares. The reason for those 2 particular colors is because they show copper fouling quite well when I'm looking for copper. Not often any longer! For .30 cal. I cut the 2" strips in two. For .25 cal. and smaller I cut the patches into quarters. If I need a tighter patch, I'll wrap whichever size is right around one cal. smaller bore brush. Bore brushes are cheap and really I use them very little. The liquid cleaners work quite well for me. Lord knows I have a bunch of different ones on my bench. If there is 2 cents difference between them, I don't see it with my cleaning procedures.

[alamogunr]

Hawks Feather: I'll have to try that with square patches since that is all I have and I have a bunch of them.

Scharf: I never thought of mixing Kroil with other solvents. I've got the barrel filled with Kroil right now. It will probably soak for a couple of days because I will be busy. I'm curious to see what comes out.

Others: I've been using a jag next size smaller than .30 and pushing a patch soaked with Ed's Red and letting it set for about 10 minutes. Longer would probably be better but I would get impatient. One thing I have not done is wet the bore with a copper solvent. I shoot cast only and don't have a copper solvent. I guess I should get some. That is odd since I have several sizes of nylon brushes to use with copper solvent.

In my own defense, this is not my rifle. I'm attempting to salvage it for someone. If they can only hang it on the wall. so be it.

[Larry Gibson]

FYI

I was raised and trained to use the loop tip for patches but have an assortment of the push through jags and a couple of the Parker Hale jags. I use them occasionally. I also use a patch on a caliber smaller brush most when JBs is used.

I most often use the loop tip simply because it is easy and just as effective as any of the others if a brush is also used separated in the bore cleaning process. However, to be as effective, the patch must be put in the loop jag correctly. I think almost all of use who were initially trained in the military, by others or left to our own to learn almost invariable put the patch in the loop jag the wrong way. Why? Simply because the wrong way is the easy and most logical way! I learned the right way by reading how in one of the old shooting books long ago. I also relearned it in the Army when the comic book manual on the M16A1 was published in the late '60s.

Below In the 1st picture we see a standard military 2 1/4" flannel issue 30 caliber patches. The left patch is unfolded.

The bottom right patch is "diaper" folded which is the way 99% of shooters fold the square patch because it is easy to insert in the typical loop jag. However it is the wrong way. When pulled into the center of the jag the patch bunches up unevenly where the folded corners meet. When the patch is push into the bore this way it most often wraps around the jag rod unevenly (as illustrated on the left in the 2nd photo) and many times leaves a portion of the jag to rub against the lands. That is not good for the lands and cleaning is not as good as it should be.

The top right patch in the 1st photo is folded the correct way; edge to edge. A corner of the folded patch is inserted through the loop and then pulled and worked until in a "squared" position as illustrated (middle) in the 2nd photo. When the rod is pushed into the bore with the patch square folded and properly positioned in the loop jag it wraps evenly around the jag body. The centers the jag in the bore keeping any portion from rubbing on the lands. Folded square it also provides complete wiping of the bore surface for more efficient and better cleaning. While a little more difficult to do this correct method is easily and quickly learned.

The right tip in the middle photo has a round patch which can be folded over and it will also wrap completely around and self center the rod/jag tip as does the correctly folded edge to edge patch.

The 3rd Photo shows two smaller rod/loop jags with patched in them. The bottom tip has a 22 caliber issue flannel patch that was square folded edge to edge. The top loop tip has a commercial 25 - 270 patch square folded edge to edge the correct way.

Using the loop tip jag is easy and efficient; just fold the patches the correct way for best results.

Larry Gibson

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[alamogunr]

Larry: I may be understanding the terminology wrong but I have been folding square patches like the bottom right in the 1st photo. I would call that a "diaper" fold. The middle tip in the middle photo looks like what you would get when adjusting the "diaper" fold as you described. Since the end result is what is important, maybe terminology is not important. I have not been adjusting the patch to look like the middle tip of the middle photo, but will from now on. The loop tip is much easier to wet the bore with.

Thanks

[Dryball]

Thanks Larry. I departed from the loop jag long ago due to poor performance. After this I will have to revisit their use.

[ryokox3]

Depending on your motivation, I'd recommend making a homemade electric bore cleaner. I made one from a steel rod, couple rubber corks,2 alligator clips ,and a flashlight that cost about a buck with the 2D cell batteries. Easy to make and it takes gunk out of even clean looking rifles. Just don't use it on chrome lined barrels or it will strip the chrome. Google should get you the info.

[country gent]

There are spear/push type jags, wrap jags, and the old eyelet style jags available for use. The push jags are just that they spear the patch with a point and the patch folds back over it to be pushed thru the bore.The wrap type jags the patch is wrapped around the jags and carries the patch thru the bore from side pressure. The eyelet the patch is insert thru a loop and pushed or pulled thru. The push jag can be hindered by pach size or thickness. To thick of material; and they get tight to thin and they are loose. To large a patch binds on sides build up. The wrap jag is patch size sensitive to big and its tight to small and its loose. But cutting some patches to get the perfect fit can be a plus at times. The eyelet is very forgiving as to thickness and size but really dosnt get tight in the bores to clean it acts more loke a mop removing loosened crud. I perfer wrap jags when available and to cut patches to fit. I do use push jags at times and have them on hand. Mechanical type cleaners ( JB Bore paste, Iosso pastes and such) really benifit from the wrap jag and a tight fitted patch. A bore brush with patch wrapped around it works well for a wrap jag also. On the military barrel the op is cleaning the use of a pathed wrapped brush and JBs may clean the barrel fairly quickly with some elbow grease thrown in. Those old barrels can be a pain to clean, shooters choice 50-50 with kroil as a carrier does a very good job. In these barrels your removing layers of diffrent foulings copper jacket and carbon.

[Larry Gibson]

Alamogunr

My bad, the picture didn't post right or more likely I just posted backwards from what I meant. Post has been corrected. Thanks for the catch.

Larry Gibson

[captaint]

Anymore, I only use the plastic loops. I don't like any naked metal cruising my bores. I do like the brass spear tip jags AND the wrap around Parker Hale tips too. The P/H tips are especially useful when using JB and the like.

[Blackwater]

As far as I've ever been able to determine, the only "rule" is to use a 1-pc. rod and not to let the rod or anything but the patch touch the rifling or the crown, push through and out, and be VERY careful withdrawing the rod. Other than that, I think it's all a matter of preference, really. With all the bore solvents and copper removers and lead removers out there today, there's no reason for anyone to have a fouled bore, but .... well, they're out there in droves, it seems. A friend builds blueprinted target/tactical/beanfield rifles, and he's had several who've spent the $$$ to get one of his guns bring them back for cleaning when accuracy went south due to their not having cleaned them! Some folks just have more money than sense, and try to "buy" everything, and seem averse to learning even the simplest of things! Ain't that sumthin'!

[country gent]

Another thing is which side of the patch do you use? the flannel patches and most have one smooth side and fuzzy ( Knap) side. the tight smooth side is better for scrubbing and the knap side seems more absorbant. Patches can vary in size, coarseness, and absorbancy from brand to brand, batch to batch.

[cajun shooter]

I shoot nothing but BP for the past 10 years in my Frontier Cartridge class of SASS. I also only shoot what is referred to as full case loads, no mouse Fart for me.
If you shoot BP then you know that several factors weigh in when it comes to the amount of bore fouling and I will not go into all of those at this time. I will however say that since using two powders, KiK and the new Olde Eynsford has made my bore cleaning very easy when done correctly.
I'm a veteran of over 50 years of shooting and have tried and used every type of cleaning piece made. My going to the FBI Sniper School changed a lot of my old style of cleaning.
I read an article from a Handloader IIRC that contained the proper way to use cotton balls rather than the old style patches with the slotted style patch holder which was in my first cleaning kit my Dad purchased for me from the Western Auto Store where my new single barrel 410 was also purchased.
I went to my wife's supply area and borrowed her large bag of these new wonderful cleaning bore products.
They are used with the pointed brass jags of PH design that is of your bore size. I could not believe how well my first pass worked as opposed to my patch use with Ben's triple twill patches of what had been my go to standard. Here at age 67, this old dog had learned a new trick. The cotton balls are very cheap when compared to the Butch patches. The Dollar Store sells a bag of 200 for about a $1 or so. Each ball is used only once and you still start out with the first ball soaked with your cleaner of choice. By my third ball, my bore was pre shooting clean, Unreal. I'm now a full cotton ball user and being that I live in the cotton growing state of Louisiana, I'll never run out of patches. I could be in the correct area of my state and leave my cleaning patches at home and just take a brief walk into the field of bunny tales that are growing there. Later David

[blackthorn]

David---You said you "borrowed" some cotton balls from your wife---what was her reaction when you returned the (now) used balls??? Inquiring minds want to know.

[cajun shooter]

David---You said you "borrowed" some cotton balls from your wife---what was her reaction when you returned the (now) used balls??? Inquiring minds want to know.

That is something that will remain between our front and rear doors. I do prefer the word borrowed rather than took or stole as those leave one with the feeling that I have no intention of replacing them and that is against my nature of being a fair person. Take Care David

[alamogunr]

Cajun Shooter, Can you point me a little closer to the Handloader article that "contained the proper way to use cotton balls"? Even the year would save me some time finding it.