.380 ACP help

[howie]

Was working on some .380 brass earlier. Decapping and resizing has been done. I noticed with Federal and Blazer brass, when trying to bell the case mouth the cartridge is crushed slightly, causing a bulge just north of center. It's mixed brass, and no other manufacturers cases do that. Any suggestions?

Issue #2, when loading cast bullets, my seating die leaves a distinct ring around the crown of the bullet, peeling the coating. Would this be a sign of not belling the case mouth enough?

Also, I read somewhere about a "bulge buster" that straightens out loaded cases.....can't find one anywhere.


Thanks for the help.

[lobowolf761]

The ring may be caused by the seater plug not being correct for the bullet you are loading. Take it out of the die and check it out with one of the bullets you are loading to see if that is the cause. As for the bulge buster I bought a Lee kit from Midway Usa. It uses your sizing die without the decapping rod in it. You can also get it from Lee also directly. I have used the one I have for 380,9mm,40cal and 45acp. Will not work for rimmed cases.will work for empty or loaded cases.

[lobowolf761]

Just to let you know I'm using Lee dies for these calibers.

[EMC45]

Howie, I experienced the same thing with some Euro brass in .380. I would do a slight bell and on the Euro cases it got a ring all the way around the brass. I chucked them. I use RCBS dies.

[lobowolf761]

I use the Lee factory crimp die and have not seen any ring on any of the cases I have loaded. I used GFL brass and Double Tap nickle plate. I try to put just a slight taper crimp on the case to make sure the bell out is staightened out.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Also, I read somewhere about a "bulge buster" that straightens out loaded cases.....can't find one anywhere.
is this your brass or range pick up i heard of Glock bulge ?

[Hawks Feather]

I have used the one I have for 9mm.

I thought I read somewhere that you should not use the bulge buster on 9mm. I was going to get one and Lee doesn't show them any longer. Now if I could just find where I read that.

I have used them on .380, 40, and .45 and they work pretty neat.

[lobowolf761]

Lee says to use the 9mm Makarov sizing die. I have and it has worked for me.

[lobowolf761]

Also, I read somewhere about a "bulge buster" that straightens out loaded cases.....can't find one anywhere.
is this your brass or range pick up i heard of Glock bulge ?
I use the one I have on loaded cases without any problems.

[lobowolf761]

They say not to use it if loading for Glocks since the case heads are not supported.

[mjwcaster]

Hi Howie, nice to see you got a chance to drop in.

Make sure you check out the 'loading for the 9mm (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121607-Setting-up-for-boolits-in-a-new-9mm)' sticky, great info on getting lead running right.

What bullets are you using, did you cast them yourself or buy them?

Matt

[mold maker]

Too many variables to completely answer your question.
1st, the bulge buster is for empty cases only, not loaded ammo.
2nd, a better description of the deformity is needed.
3rd, are your boolits and brass correctly sized?
4th, 9 mm is a bad choice for a 1st reloading attempt. Much harder than say 45 ACP.
5th the ring caused by the Top Punch can be corrected by waxing a boolit an adding some epoxy in the TP. Use the boolit to mold the epoxy in the TP for a perfect fit. If you need to remove the epoxy a simple soak in acetone/lacquer thinner will remove it.
All the recommendations you've been given are correct, but still may not solve the problem we think your having. A picture would help.

[Walkingwolf]

I thought I read somewhere that you should not use the bulge buster on 9mm. I was going to get one and Lee doesn't show them any longer. Now if I could just find where I read that.

I have used them on .380, 40, and .45 and they work pretty neat.

Lee suggests using 9X18 FCD to remove bulges from 9mm.

[howie]

Thanks for the insights. I'm on the road....will post pics of the bulged cases when I get home. I'm using RCBS dies, and I've tried a couple different seater plugs. Using SNS bullets.

[lobowolf761]

Too many variables to completely answer your question.
1st, the bulge buster is for empty cases only, not loaded ammo.
2nd, a better description of the deformity is needed.
3rd, are your boolits and brass correctly sized?
4th, 9 mm is a bad choice for a 1st reloading attempt. Much harder than say 45 ACP.
5th the ring caused by the Top Punch can be corrected by waxing a boolit an adding some epoxy in the TP. Use the boolit to mold the epoxy in the TP for a perfect fit. If you need to remove the epoxy a simple soak in acetone/lacquer thinner will remove it.
All the recommendations you've been given are correct, but still may not solve the problem we think your having. A picture would help.
It's his seating die not top punch that's leaving the ring on his bullet. I have used the bulge buster on loaded 45acp after I found out that it was alright to do by Lee CS. I'm not saying that it is right or proper but it worked to solve the problem with a friends ammo. Using epoxy as a fix for proper fit on a top punch does work very well. I've had to do that on different calibers top punches till I was able to order the right ones for the different moulds.

[paul edward]

Lee says to use the 9mm Makarov sizing die. I have and it has worked for me.

The 9mm Makarov case is straight, but has the same head dimensions as the 9mm Luger which is tapered.
While the Makarov bulge buster will remove bulges on 9mm Luger cases, they still need to be sized.

[lobowolf761]

The 9mm Makarov case is straight, but has the same head dimensions as the 9mm Luger which is tapered.
While the Makarov bulge buster will remove bulges on 9mm Luger cases, they still need to be sized.
Yep, that they do.

[howie]

154400154405
Pic on the left is loaded rounds showing the "bulge". Pic on the right is brass that has been resized and the case mouth belled. The piece on the left is resized only to show the difference. Just ordered a Lee bulge buster. Hopefully it works.

[Eddie17]

Do your loaded rounds pass the plunk test?
I own and have used the Makarov die on problem 9mm loaded rounds.
After running through the die, rounds shot fine.
I know 380 is close but not the same.

[Outpost75]

Looking at the photos, it appears that your expander plug is too long and reaches down into the case past the point where the case body wall begins to thicken. The bulge is made worse when you use a bullet having a shank length which exceeds the seating depth of factory loads, in that the bullet base impinges against the internal taper of the case wall.

While the Lee Factory Crimp Die can "iron out" the bulge, it also reduces the bullet diameter by compression inside the case, which may impair accuracy due to bullet base deformation. It is better to use a bullet which is properly designed for the .380 ACP, with a seating stem which "fits" the bullet profile.

I use a Lee .38 Short Colt die set to load .380 ACP, substituting the Lee No.4 shell holder (.32 H&R Magnum) for the No.6 (.38 Special) which comes with the die set.

It is also important to inside deburr the case mouths on once-fired brass to remove the sharp inside corner on the case mouth to reduce risk of lead shaving. I then lightly expand case mouths only enough to hand-start the bevel base of Accurate 36-125T bullets into the case. I get no bulge. The drawing of the Accurate bullet shown depicts its original dimensions for the 9x18 Makarov, but when you order the mold you can specify a smaller diameter, as I did, ordering .357" driving bands and .355 forepart for the .380 ACP.

154410154411154412

[birddog]

Get the Lee bulge buster kit and a 380 Lee FCD crimp die is what is used with this set up, then get their powder through expander die in 380 cal. Should have no more problems after that.
Charlie

[howie]

Just ordered the Lee bulge buster, already have the Lee FCD. Taking a shot in the dark here....I have two different bullets for loading .380 plinker rounds. One is the SNS 95 gr. round nose. The other is a Magnus 100 gr. Both measure .356 according to the box. I have three different reloading manuals, plus the info from the Hodgdon website, none of which list lead bullets at all. Do any of you guys have a load for either of these two bullets?

[birddog]

I'll look at my RD sheet for the 100 gr RD boolit, can at least get you a starting point if you drop back and work up.
Charlie

[brassrat]

I get this bulging after using M die on .380 and 9mm. The 9 gun doesn't care but the .380 won't chamber unless I expand with the M die, which leaves a smaller bulge, than I flare with the Lee die. I figure the bulge fits the chamber tighter and centers the round

[mtgrs737]

FYI the Lee die that you can use to take the bulge out of cases is the "Lee Factory Carbide Crimp Die" You will also need to buy the bulge buster kit which has a pusher pin that snaps into place on your press ram and a adapter that screws into the Lee FCCD when the seater stem is removed. The round plastic case it come in doubles as a catch box for the cases once they push thu the die. I have De-bulged many thousands of 40 s&w cases using this set up, it works very well. The Lee FCCD was intended to size the case when seating the bullet to make sure that the round would fit the chamber but I would not use it for that purpose as it could size down the bullet in the case and affectively under size the bullet for the bore and cause leading. I don't know if that is really what Lee intended or if it was their way of getting around Reddings patent on their case de-bulger. It helps if you spray lube the cases before sizing them.

[35remington]

Since the LFCD considerably preceded the Redding die in time of introduction, I doubt it was a way of "getting around" Redding's patent. A lot of us were using it as a "de bulger" long before Lee offered a kit for it. Simply add the appropriate sized punch ( use the .40 for .45, for example) and go to it.

[rond]

I have a lot of 380 mixed headstamp brass and have found out that they are not all the same length. I sort the brass and set up my dies for each length that I am loading. Once sorted I try to keep them that way.

[Blackwater]

It sounds to me like it's likely (?) a matter of how you've adjusted your dies. The sizing appears to be good, and for that, simply screwing the sizer die down all the way to touch the shell holder when the ram is brought all the way up is good.

With the expander/decapper, run the ram all the way up with a case in the shell holder, and then screw the die down until it is in contact with the case mouth good. Then back off the ram and screw the die in another 1/4 to 1/8 turn, or even 1/16. This will begin to bell the cases. Take the case out and try a bullet in the case neck. You want the neck to be opened up just barely enough to let a bullet seat inside it and just barely below the case mouth. If it's not doing that, put the case back in the shell holder and screw the die down another tad, and retry. Keep doing this until the bullet seats in the case as described. When it does, you're done, and you can proceed to expand/decap all cases.

Then, with the seater die, and after you've primed and charged all cases, place a charged case in the shell holder and run it all the way up to the top. Then put your seater die in with the lock ring backed off, and the seater plug run down a bit (so you don't get any crimp in seating the first bullet to desired OAL), and run the die down until it contacts the bullet and pushes it into the case to the OAL you have selected.

Now the bullet is in the right place, but the case neck still has a bell in it.

Then, run the seater plug all the way up in the die so it can't contact the bullet's nose, and (again with the lock ring run up until you find the right spot to lock it down to), run the ram up fully, and screw the seater/crimp die down until it contacts the belled case mouth. Run the ram back down, and then screw the die down another tiny bit to get the taper crimp to take the bell out of the case with the already seated bullet in place. Keep turning the die in until it looks right, and the case mouth is crimped slightly into the bullet. Learning just how much the case mouth needs to be crimped into the bullet is a matter of trial and error for all of us at first, but with time, you will come to pretty well recognize it just by visual inspection. Most tend to overcrimp, which I suspect may well be the cause of your mid-case bulge. All the taper crimp needs to do is bite into the bullet lightly, and just enough to keep the bullet from being rammed or pushed back into the case during feeding toward the chamber. That could and would cause an increase in pressure due to bullet setback, which makes the powder chamber smaller, and thus ups pressures.

Getting the right crimp on rimless auto ctgs. is usually an inexperienced reloader's biggest challenges, but a little adjustment and experimentation will quickly sort it out, and it's very educational. Taking finished bullets and plunking them into the chamber of the gun with the barrel removed is a really good test for your reloaded rounds, as described above.

Reloading isn't for folks who don't like to tinker at least a little, but this is the best place I know to ask questions. I'd have loved to have had a resource like this when I first started. Back then, the ONLY way to learn was to just keep tinkering and reasoning it out. Hope this helps?

[Down South]

I've loaded thousands of 9mm and I don't have any problem with the brands of brass you are loading. With the expander die screwed all the way up, do you still get a bulge? Looks like a die adjustment problem. Also noticed you have more of a bell than I normally use.
Some boolits/bullets will leave a slight bulge in the case at the base of the boolit. That is normal.
A lee factory crimp die only corrects a problem that should never exist to begin with plus it will swage some loaded rounds boolit size smaller than it needs to be and cause leading.
The seating die just needs the correct top punch, one that fits the nose of the boolit correctly.

[lightload]

I wonder if your die set mistakenly has a 9mm expander in place of one for .380 acp. Length would be different. I've reloaded a sinful amount of .380--all with mixed brass--and never had this issue. Ordering a 380 expander and replacing yours might improve things. Even if the current one is marked 380, it still could be the wrong one.

Another possibility is that the size die diameter is too small--a situation that would cause this problem with crushed case