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View Full Version : "low ball" bids on "firm" prices.... my 2 cents



GoodOlBoy
08-07-2015, 07:14 PM
I've seen several folks complain that they posted a "firm" price and somebody tried to "low ball" bid them via pm. I've even dealt with a couple of ticked off people who were mad because I offered them a lower price for the item. So I think it's about time I kicked in my 2 cents.

If you offer an item, and it's up more than a week (in one case it was more than a month and I still got a nasty reply) and somebody offers you a "low ball" bid you don't really have the right to complain. Especially if you keep talking about "needing" the money, and keep bumping the item. At TWO weeks after listing if you are still bumping it you should be grateful anybody is even considering it! And at a month? give me a break. There is no REASON to be rude to a person who offers you a lower bid after a week or more. A simple thank you but no, or a not at this time but I will consider your offer works better. And BY THE WAY a bid isn't a "LOW BALL" if it's within 20% of the asking price. That's just the start of a negotiation, you should consider countering the offer. I know everybody didn't grow up horse trading like some of us did, but gimme a break. Nobody is FORCING you to accept a lower bid, but nobody is FORCING the rest of us to do business with you either. Keep that in mind. Acting like a rear now, probably will sour anything you want to negotiate in the future. I know of at least three people who are well respected here that I won't name who I also wouldn't take a gold brick from if they gave it to me, much less do business with ever again.

God Bless

Richard

starmac
08-07-2015, 07:35 PM
Lmao, how do you feel about firm prices.

There is a huge swap meet (or was) in prescott valley Az. I used to go to it every weekend or two, and a gut had a new ford part marked about a 1/2 of parts store cost for at least a couple of months.
Mine went out on a saturday evening so I went on sunday and made him an offer, he said the box is marked and that is what I will take, so I left and came back around and made him a higher offer. This went on for a couple of hours. Iirc his pricwe was 100 bucks, I offered him 99.50 and he wouldn't take it. lol
On top of the box laid a small alligator clip, maybe a buck at the store if you needed one, so I said, if the clip came with it I would go ahaed and take it. He told me if I wanted the clip too it would be an extra 50 cents. lol
He knew what his stuff was worth, and was set on his price, just no give at all. I needed it so still came out with a great deal, but man I hated not being able to beat him down at least 50 cents, at a swap meet.
Here I generally take it or don't respond.

dragon813gt
08-07-2015, 07:43 PM
I ignore lowball offers. And I respect firm prices. Just because you think the seller should drop the price because it's been listed for weeks doesn't make it so.

There is no reason to be rude on either end.

BrassMagnet
08-07-2015, 07:47 PM
When I see prices too high, I seldom even look again. I tend to not look at any item posted by that seller if I remember them posting at too high of a price.
Sometimes, I do get curious and I do look again, but not very often.

starmac
08-07-2015, 08:08 PM
When I see prices too high, I seldom even look again. I tend to not look at any item posted by that seller if I remember them posting at too high of a price.
Sometimes, I do get curious and I do look again, but not very often.

I'm pretty much the same way, if I consider it a fair price, but don't really need it (like I really need any of it) I may keep checking back hopeing someone takes it before I am forced to. lol

osteodoc08
08-07-2015, 08:13 PM
A seller can ask whatever price he wants. It's a free market. On the flip side, a buyer doesn't have to buy if they don't want to buy.

There is a difference between making an offer and making a "low-ball" offer.

Agreed that there is no need for rudeness on either end.

Newboy
08-07-2015, 08:26 PM
I agree that if you want to pm a low offer, no loss.
But I detest the people who agree, and then I drive an hour to meet them, and they offer less, take it or leave it.
They wasted my time.

jsizemore
08-07-2015, 08:36 PM
Some folks feel insulted by low-ball offers. They feel just like you do when they vent their anger toward you. So I guess the better question is, why do you feel insulted when you didn't get what you wanted? Seems they are right up front from the start and you are not showing them respect. I guess when they're nasty you finally get the message.

Personally, I don't take offense. When I buy pewter at the flea market, I ask the price and accept what I'm told. I either pay the price or put it back where I found it. Period. If I put multiple pieces to be priced and the seller makes an offer for less then tagged then the haggle is on. I've been invited to counter offer.

Blacksmith
08-07-2015, 08:37 PM
If I had a firm price listed and got a lowball PM I would just hit the delete on the PM no rudeness just no reply.

waarp8nt
08-07-2015, 08:47 PM
I have been "horse trading" for awhile now, long before Pawn Stars and American Pickers. If something has been for sale for a month then there is no such thing as a low ball offer, in my opinion it would have sold long ago if it was priced reasonable. If I do low ball someone, I usually give a reason...like your rifle is sporterized not original. Some folks end up with stuff and have no realistic idea of value...a price check is sometimes needed. If your going to sell stuff in a public forum you better have thick skin.

floydboy
08-07-2015, 09:05 PM
I like what goodolboy said about horse trading. Negotiating is part of the fun of buying. A lot of people hate it but some of us enjoy it. I for one kinda like shopping for a vehicle. My wife hates it but she doesn't have any patience. It will make her sick stressing out over a deal. LOL. I personally appreciate any offer I get whether I take it or not when I'm selling something. At least you know somebody is interested. I always worry about gracefully saying no because at least they took the time to offer. I see nothing wrong with making a low offer on something that is obviously over priced or has a very low demand. I do agree with everybody that nobody should take offense and be courteous regardless of how you feel.

Floyd

Akheloce
08-07-2015, 09:18 PM
I agree with Floyd.

I'm one of those "hate to negotiate" people. I don't know why, but I just want to buy (or sell) something for a known price without the hassle.

I spent quite a bit if time in both Southwest and East Asia over the years, and to them, it's a sport. If you don't argue the price, they don't respect you. There is a local used car dealership which has a set price system. I've only bought from them in 18 years.

I'm of the opinion that if someone has something to sell for $100 obo, I'll either offer $100, or ignore the offer.
I don't think it's appropriate to get irritated at the other guy offering less than I ask unless he is persistent and annoying- easier to ignore.

Uncle R.
08-07-2015, 09:19 PM
When I haggle in person at a gun show or other venue I try not to insult the seller. It's hard enough to do when you're standing there next to them, it can be even more difficult using internet messages. It just strikes me as foolish to anger a person you're trying to strike a deal with.

Everyone has their own dickering technique it seems, and none of them will work every time. My proudest haggling accomplishment was the day my new wife dragged me by the arm to a seller's table, pointed out the item that had caught her eye, and said (right in front of the seller) "I want that and I'm going to buy it and I don't care WHAT you say." Even after that tough beginning I managed to wrangle the price down a bit. My wife had apparently been raised in a haggle-free environment. It took some explaining on the ride home as to why her statement was a bad way to open negotiations.

:bigsmyl2:

Uncle R.

Skunk1
08-07-2015, 09:30 PM
I don't let it bother me. It's a simple answer of yes or no. Doesn't anger me and if it does them, it's no skin off my back. Learned horse trading from my grandfather and bothe my kids will learn it from me.

SeabeeMan
08-07-2015, 09:34 PM
I see a lowball offer as an appropriate first offer. If y are intending to haggle and the seller will entertain offers, why would you start with anything other than a optimistically low offer. Mind you, I don't mean a cents on the dollar, ridiculously low initial offer, but I assume yell counter with something and I want room to work.

When end I used to do sales involving pricing that would be negotiated, I'd have been fired on the spot for accepting a customers initial bid no matter how good it was for us.

On the flip side of this discussion, there is something with sales I hate even more: sellers who place "or best offer" or something to that effect and then will not entertain offers. I was looking at a Marlin 357 lever and the add said all reasonable offers entertained. I offered $350 to start things off and he went nuts and said he'd only take $650.

SeabeeMan
08-07-2015, 09:35 PM
I agree with Floyd.

I'm one of those "hate to negotiate" people. I don't know why, but I just want to buy (or sell) something for a known price without the hassle.

I spent quite a bit if time in both Southwest and East Asia over the years, and to them, it's a sport. If you don't argue the price, they don't respect you. There is a local used car dealership which has a set price system. I've only bought from them in 18 years.

I'm of the opinion that if someone has something to sell for $100 obo, I'll either offer $100, or ignore the offer.
I don't think it's appropriate to get irritated at the other guy offering less than I ask unless he is persistent and annoying- easier to ignore.

sicilian markets are the same way. You're a joke if you just pay what they ask.

dragon813gt
08-07-2015, 09:46 PM
I was looking at a Marlin 357 lever and the add said all reasonable offers entertained. I offered $350 to start things off and he went nuts and said he'd only take $650.
If this was recent your first offer was not reasonable. It's less than half the current market value. You can make whatever offer you want but don't be surprised when you are turned down.

As a seller, list the price you want to sell it for. Don't leave it open ended. I hate haggling so I hate when a price isn't listed. It's best to start high if you want to make the most money.

GoodOlBoy
08-07-2015, 10:14 PM
So I guess the better question is, why do you feel insulted when you didn't get what you wanted? Seems they are right up front from the start and you are not showing them respect. I guess when they're nasty you finally get the message.

I don't feel insulted if I don't get it for the price I want. I feel insulted when I ask politely and the seller calls me a dirty sob, or otherwise cusses at me via pm for even asking. I think if somebody is saying they need the money badly, and I am offering even CLOSE to what they are asking I AM offering respect. The only message I get when they are nasty is that they are not a person I would do business with AT ANY price. It isn't like I am hounding them over and over if I ask with a single pm about a deal, a barter, etc.

I don't have alot of spare money, or even any at the moment to be honest. So if I ask the seller if they would be willing to toss in the shipping on an item, and they are rude yeah i am offended. They coulda just said no, no thanks, etc. I had a person on this very board who was selling four items I was interested in. The only question I asked was if they would mind combining the shipping as they listed shipping extra on each item with the price as "FIRM", and all four items would have fit in a MFR box instead of four SFR boxes. I was informed that I could kiss a portion of their posterior if I didn't like their prices, they had already said "FIRM", and then they questioned both my intelligence and the status of my birth. Only they used short, rude words for each portion of the message.

Let me make this perfectly clear. I'm NOT offended if they don't take my offer. That's fine, it's their item so they are free to do what they want. I AM offended when I get cursed at, AND I do get offended when my question "just gets deleted". If you are offering an item for sale, and you can't have the common courtesy to answer even with two letters NO, then I just won't do business with you.

I grew up horse trading, going to flea and farmers markets, buying livestock, and going to yard sales. You don't even ask about the "best" price on an item and people take you for at best a fool and at worst a rich snob, and word gets around small towns. I try to never be rude to anybody, either with an offer, or just in conversation, and I won't tolerate people being rude to me.

God Bless

Richard

M-Tecs
08-07-2015, 10:24 PM
I don't feel insulted if I don't get it for the price I want. I feel insulted when I ask politely and the seller calls me a dirty sob, or otherwise cusses at me via pm for even asking. I think if somebody is saying they need the money badly, and I am offering even CLOSE to what they are asking I AM offering respect. The only message I get when they are nasty is that they are not a person I would do business with AT ANY price. It isn't like I am hounding them over and over if I ask with a single pm about a deal, a barter, etc.

I don't have alot of spare money, or even any at the moment to be honest. So if I ask the seller if they would be willing to toss in the shipping on an item, and they are rude yeah i am offended. They coulda just said no, no thanks, etc. I had a person on this very board who was selling four items I was interested in. The only question I asked was if they would mind combining the shipping as they listed shipping extra on each item with the price as "FIRM", and all four items would have fit in a MFR box instead of four SFR boxes. I was informed that I could kiss a portion of their posterior if I didn't like their prices, they had already said "FIRM", and then they questioned both my intelligence and the status of my birth. Only they used short, rude words for each portion of the message.

Let me make this perfectly clear. I'm NOT offended if they don't take my offer. That's fine, it's their item so they are free to do what they want. I AM offended when I get cursed at, AND I do get offended when my question "just gets deleted". If you are offering an item for sale, and you can't have the common courtesy to answer even with two letters NO, then I just won't do business with you.

I grew up horse trading, going to flea and farmers markets, buying livestock, and going to yard sales. You don't even ask about the "best" price on an item and people take you for at best a fool and at worst a rich snob, and word gets around small towns. I try to never be rude to anybody, either with an offer, or just in conversation, and I won't tolerate people being rude to me.

God Bless

Richard

Very well stated. I agree 100%

starmac
08-07-2015, 10:39 PM
I had a guy wanting to sell a shotgun yesterday evening. I ask what he thought it was worth, and told him I wasn't interested in it at that price, so he ask if I had any interest at all, as he might could come off a little. I told him straight up, I will buy it, but I don't need it or even particularly want it, so the only way I am interested is if it is low enough I can make a buck without a lot of hassle, so give me a price I can't say no to and we'll deal. He did and we both left happy.
Every deal is different, there are very few things I really need any more, infact I got lots that I don't need. lol

butch2570
08-07-2015, 10:59 PM
I don't feel insulted if I don't get it for the price I want. I feel insulted when I ask politely and the seller calls me a dirty sob, or otherwise cusses at me via pm for even asking. I think if somebody is saying they need the money badly, and I am offering even CLOSE to what they are asking I AM offering respect. The only message I get when they are nasty is that they are not a person I would do business with AT ANY price. It isn't like I am hounding them over and over if I ask with a single pm about a deal, a barter, etc.

I don't have alot of spare money, or even any at the moment to be honest. So if I ask the seller if they would be willing to toss in the shipping on an item, and they are rude yeah i am offended. They coulda just said no, no thanks, etc. I had a person on this very board who was selling four items I was interested in. The only question I asked was if they would mind combining the shipping as they listed shipping extra on each item with the price as "FIRM", and all four items would have fit in a MFR box instead of four SFR boxes. I was informed that I could kiss a portion of their posterior if I didn't like their prices, they had already said "FIRM", and then they questioned both my intelligence and the status of my birth. Only they used short, rude words for each portion of the message.

Let me make this perfectly clear. I'm NOT offended if they don't take my offer. That's fine, it's their item so they are free to do what they want. I AM offended when I get cursed at, AND I do get offended when my question "just gets deleted". If you are offering an item for sale, and you can't have the common courtesy to answer even with two letters NO, then I just won't do business with you.

I grew up horse trading, going to flea and farmers markets, buying livestock, and going to yard sales. You don't even ask about the "best" price on an item and people take you for at best a fool and at worst a rich snob, and word gets around small towns. I try to never be rude to anybody, either with an offer, or just in conversation, and I won't tolerate people being rude to me.

God Bless

Richard I would venture to say also , that the ones doing the cussing and being rude, has at some point in their life, made a Offer to someone else on items for sale... I don't get offended at offers. I'm not going to be rude about it though, we all come from all walks and Some may be offering all that they can. I put my pants on just like anyone else.. It can be accepted or declined,no big deal. Shoot, I have even heard of people giving things away to people whom someone may have felt was deserving..

Hawks Feather
08-07-2015, 11:24 PM
While I haven't sold anything here, I have sold some photography items online. I have also bought some items online. I have had some people offer me 50¢ on the dollar for items that were priced fairly and sold at the asking price. I ignored those replies. Then I have had some items that I have watched that have been posted for some time and have sent a PM asking if that is the best price that they have listed. Some have said it is the best price, and some have offered a lower price. I don't mind doing that or being sent those type of PMs. Life is too short for me to play the games of: you said no to 50¢ on the dollar, well what about 55¢? That to me is what I think of as low balling and I don't care for it.

starmac
08-07-2015, 11:53 PM
I stopped at a garage sale today, an elderlady was raising money for two grandaughters that are terminally ill. She didn't price anything, just told you to make her an offer. Everything I offered was agood deal to me, but I hate doing that. At the end I had 9 bucks change coming, and just told her to put it in the kitty. I do usually offer a lower price at flea markets, garage sales and gun shows, it is just natural seems like.

SeabeeMan
08-08-2015, 12:02 AM
If this was recent your first offer was not reasonable. It's less than half the current market value. You can make whatever offer you want but don't be surprised when you are turned down.



It was fairly beat up. It was a fair offer but definitely on the low end.

I think I missed making my point a bit, which pertains to the two halves of every sale. While buyers perhaps shouldn't make insultingly low offers, sellers shouldn't get offended. Likewise, sellers shouldn't be offended when receiving offers after asking for offers.

I've been amazed how many times I've walked away with things for a steal after making what I feared may have been a "low-ball offer." Keep in mind, this is always with a seller happy to have my cash and see the item go away.

snowwolfe
08-08-2015, 12:24 AM
If I advertise something usually will say the price is FIRM. If you send me a lower offer I will either ask you what part of FIRM do you not understand or not even respond to their PM. If you can't respect the price is firm then I am under no obligation to respect you or your offer.
If I want to entertain "best offer" I would of stated this in the ad

fatelk
08-08-2015, 01:00 AM
I'm one of those that doesn't particularly like haggling, but I have learned to do it to a degree. I'm not that good at it because I tend to be too polite, perhaps. The type of guys I don't care for are the hard nose wheeler-dealer types that verbally beat down a seller to get a steal. I don't respect those kind at all.

I learned something about this when I was young, selling a motorcycle through the want ads. It was just an old Yamaha enduro but it was a good running dirt bike.

A guy came out to look at it, seemed serious when he called. He was dressed well and driving a nice truck. He asked all the pertinent questions and knew what he was talking about. He then proceeded to beat me down, telling me my price was "way out of line", pointing out every little imperfection and offered me a third of what I wanted. I was shocked, just turned my back and walked away. The next day I came home from work and my mom handed me an envelope full of cash because someone else had come out that day and payed full price.

I came to realize that the first guy was just using a psychological sales technique on me. He saw who he thought was a dumb kid desperate for money. He figured he'd beat me down, get me good and discouraged, then get a steal that he could flip and make some money on. I've seen that technique many times since. I watched an acquaintance that I used to respect do it on several occasions. He was very good at it. Notice I said "used to respect"?

A good fair haggle is one thing, but beating down an unsuspecting, desperate victim is another. If someone makes a respectful offer, no matter how low, I'm not offended. I might say no though, since I'm one of those guys that tend to price anything I sell for what I'd like to get rather than a high starting price expecting to haggle.

quickdraw66
08-08-2015, 01:01 AM
I consider the people who are rude and disrespectful over something that could be answered with a simple "No thanks" to be scum and not worth my time. There is no reason to be rude like that and anyone who says that there is is lying.

If I am selling a product and list that item for say $100 (firm or not), if someone offers me $50 for it, I'm not going to be a horse's behind and rant at them or make some smart aleck remark. I'm going to be respectful and simply say no thank you.

I have asked reasonably lower (within 20%) offers before. Sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't, sometimes I pay the full price anyways. If those sellers are rude to me though, they won't get a sell from me no matter how much I was willing to pay. They can kiss the hairiest part of my behind.

waksupi
08-08-2015, 01:19 AM
I think some of it is generational. Lots of us older guys grew up haggling for the best price on most everything, even if it was a good deal to start with.

fatelk
08-08-2015, 01:26 AM
Here's a funny story about haggling. A few years ago I had an old canopy for my truck that I hadn't used in some time (topper for you Midwesterners). It wasn't real pretty and needed some tlc, so I put it on Craigslist for $10, a giveaway price just to get rid of it fast.

A guy came out to look at it, with his 5 or 6 year old son. Dad walked around it, looking at it with his head cocked, rubbing his chin and poking it with his foot. Son was right behind him, head cocked, rubbing his chin, poking with his foot.

"Would you take five dollars?"
I smiled and chuckled, No I'd like ten, sorry. He smiled and handed me ten. I almost gave it to him for five just because of his kid. :)

Avery Arms
08-08-2015, 02:13 AM
If the price is listed as firm that means the seller has it priced where he wants it and you should respect that and not waste his time sending offers. If a seller has done his research and priced his items accordingly he is usually wise to disgregard buyer offers anyway as they rarely have any connection to the actual value. The vast majority of people making offers either don't know what the item is worth (and almost never offer comparable comps) or don't care they just want to pay less that the asking price regardless. Even if something is worth $500 and it's marked $50 and a lot of people will offer $25-40 they don't care about the $450 savings nearly as much as the other $10-25. And thus the vast majority of offers are 50-90% of asking price with absolutely no regard for the actual value of the item. Also a lot of buyers won't honor their offers especially if the seller gives in "too easily".

Time on the market is often irrelevant, usually a common item (that everyone wants, knows the value, say for example a Glock or Colt AR) at a giveaway price will sell more or less instantly but other than that it's just a matter of finding the right buyer which can take days or years depending on what you are selling and your market exposure. Reducing the price may make something sell faster but that is not always the case unless you lower it so much that resellers and other "opportunistic" buyers will bite.

Personally I rarely consider offers as they are not usually based on anything other than how cheap that particular person is. Much better to price your stuff to sell from the start and wait for a serious buyer. When I sell items on gunbroker I used to get a LOT of offers from flaky cheapskate buyers now I simply say "no offers" and people who don't honor that get a lifetime block from my listings. Everyone is out there looking for the "deal of a lifetime" and I have no problem with that but keep looking and don't waste my time in the process.

waltherboy4040
08-08-2015, 03:24 AM
I don't understand why sellers place a firm price on something only to act desperate to sell, but offended when someone makes an offer. What something is worth and what the market will pay is easy to figure out. A low ball offer is still more money than throwing the item in the trash or waiting a year for it to sell. Oh well plenty of motivated sellers out there

hunter49
08-08-2015, 04:26 AM
Just my .02 cents worth and thats firm! Just kidding, I guess I'm old school and a offer on something that I'm selling does'nt bother me. I may not accept it or I may counter. I will give a polite response and I don't take the low ball offers personally. I guess the way I look at it is, as a buyer I'm trying to get the item for the best price I can and as a seller I want to try to get the best price I can.


A nasty response from a seller that's insulting because you have made an offer is not necessary. I would not ever do business with them no matter how bad I thought I needed the item.

winchester85
08-08-2015, 08:31 AM
i learned a long time ago on craigslist to list the price about 100% higher than i really wanted. then when they offer me 50 cents on the dollar they will feel like they beat me up on price.

but on forums, i usually list it for what i will take. usually that list price is fair market value or less. to me it is insulting and a waste of time when someone makes an offer for 50 cents on the dollar. i do not play that game. a fair price is just that, a fair price. on many items i have not listed a price and tell people who ask to make an offer. almost none ever do. you as the buyer know what you are willing to pay, why not offer up what it is worth to you?
almost nothing i put up for sale is about the money, i am never broke. it is about cleaning stuff out, but when something is worth $100, please do not offer me half or less. it is a waste of my time, and insulting.

historicfirearms
08-08-2015, 08:33 AM
The tactic I hate as a seller is when I put a price on something, then the buyer asks me what my bottom dollar is on that item. That's not the way it works. Make an offer on the item if you don't like the seller's price. It's not the sellers job to lower his price because the buyer is too afraid to make an offer.

The other thing that bugs me is when someone is selling an item and they don't bother to put a price on it. Often I will just leave without even asking the seller what his price is. If you are going to put something up for sale, do a little research and put a price on the item, otherwise sell it as an auction.

mold maker
08-08-2015, 09:10 AM
I will not even ask about un-priced items. If the seller has to size me up, to determine the price he thinks I'll pay, it's too high.
If I think the asked price is too high, I'll make a reasonable offer, and wont be hurt if the seller says no. It is his stuff.
If I'm selling, and someone makes a reasonable offer, I'll consider it, and if it's been for sale for a while, i'll accept it.
There is no point to getting bent out of shape on either side of a sale. Nobody wants to be cheated or taken advantage of.
I'd lots rather have friends, than a couple more dollars.

ol skool
08-08-2015, 09:14 AM
If a listing has been hanging around a while with a 'firm' price I usually email asking if the seller is willing to take an offer before I even shoot a price.

If the reply is no, or no response we're done. If the reply is yes then guess it wasn't as 'firm' as it they thought, eh?

RogerDat
08-08-2015, 09:37 AM
There is simply no reason to be rude in the exchange. Seller is saying they "firmly" that this is the price they will sell at. Buyer is simply saying they would be willing to purchase if the price were lower. Seller is free to decide if the offer is worth considering or decline. No one should be taking offense. It can be a bit rude to offer chump change as a response to a fairly priced item. Still no need to get rude in response. They are responsible for their behavior (rude low ball offer) but you are responsible for your response (rude or civil).

I may be selling some lead alloy soon, I'll price it at what I'm willing to let it go for. I feel no obligation to beat the best price offered on eBay in the last 6 months. Or even the best price offered here. If someone else is selling the same alloy for 10 cents less a lb. at the same time people will buy that alloy first, after it sells out then someone will buy mine. Or offer me a lower price based on the deal they missed ;-) Maybe I'll decide I would rather have their money (even if not what I was asking) or maybe not. If you send me a PM offering $5 a lb. for pewter I listed for $10 I won't be rude but I may counter with $11 since I just decided to raise the price rather than cast aspersions at the morals of your mother over the legitimacy of your birth. I'm sure she is a wonderful lady no matter how you turned out. I admit I only did that once but it was very satisfying. Classic motorcycle part, priced fair, ridiculous low offer, I commented I meant to price that $5 higher, sorry for the mistake. Crossed out the old price and raised it. Don't care that he didn't buy it worth twice the price for the look on his face.

I have sent a PM to a seller with links to the item being offered for significantly lower price elsewhere. Telling them I'm not in the market anymore but my recent shopping indicates their price may make it hard to sell. I make it clear I'm not trying to beat them up on price just offering a little market research. People seemed to appreciate it or were nice enough to thank me for the effort. I'm not going to get bent based on how they respond either way.

I have some stuff that I will put in the garage sale, some I'll sell because any cash is better than item that just takes up space. Willing to negotiate. Other stuff I'll sell it if buyer finds the price is agreeable but my bottom price is met or I'll just keep it. Yes I'll probably be annoyed if you offered me $50 for a 6 ft. drill press with 1/2 hp. motor I have a $150 price on in which case my answer would be "I'm firm on that price" I would be thinking however "I can get more than $50 as scrap metal butt munch, if I was going to give it away it would be to someone I know"

lightman
08-08-2015, 09:40 AM
I'll I try to be friendly, and a friend, to everyone that I buy from or sell to. If selling, I'll meet lower offers with a polite reply or a counter offer. If buying, I'll pay what they are asking, if fair, or make a polite counter offer. I always thank them for buying. I expect a fairly quick sale or I'll take a lower offer pretty quick.

There's no point in being rude or getting mad. If we can't get together, I'll thank them for looking and wish them luck in their search. Just the way I roll!

bob208
08-08-2015, 10:10 AM
I have been doing auto flea market in Carlisle pa. for the past 25 years. used to be if the part was worth 200 you would say 220. they would say 180. you would come back with 210 they would counter with 190. some talking and looking and one or the other would say split the difference. now they walk up see 220 and offer 50. not even worth talking to them.


I find now the best way is to wait to late in the show. and then ask what would it take for you to move it out?

GoodOlBoy
08-08-2015, 10:34 AM
I think I need to mention something else as well. Well a couple of things actually. One is my own personal 20% rule. I think if you are offering half (or less) of what the seller is asking you are begging to be ignored. This IMHO IS disrespectful. 20% for me is a haggling price. I am expecting to be countered. Also it's only if I believe the price is 10-15% to high. If the price is just dead on on an item I will sometimes ask for combined or throw in shipping, but I'm not going to beat a guy up if he's already offering a heck of a deal.

Also for me there is a difference in a "FIRM" price and a "No offers" price. Firm isn't always firm. No offers means take it or leave it. No offers at this time means let it ride for a week or two, then ask.

There is a seller here who I was buying an item for my brother from. He had a FIRM and a No Offers on it, but my brother insisted I ask about a possible deal on the item. I knew what the answer on that one was going to be. I asked anyway. Eventually my brother got tired of hassling me (I wasn't about the hassle the seller after I asked once) and the item was bought at the asked for price. For me this is a different case. I hated asking in that case, and I've told my brother next time he just needs to create an account HIMSELF and make the deals. I ain't goin through that again.

But again, if I am not rude, I expect the other party not to be rude either.

Edited to Add: Also IMHO if it is last day of a market, show, whatever; and you offer an incredible low offer so somebody "Doesn't Have to load it", I don't think you are out of bounds. But again for me that would be a starting negotiation. Alot of times I just let them set the price by asking "What would you sell all of this for not to have to load it?" You'd be amazed how well that actually works.

God Bless

Richard

MBTcustom
08-08-2015, 10:50 AM
I agree with you 100% GoodOlBoy. I have seen some of the threads you mention, and they are obviously thinking that what they are selling is worth more than everybody else does. Offering 20% less is perfectly respectable and reasonable as a starting point IMHO, and should be countered with a true bottom dollar amount, or the item should be removed from sale. That's the respectable thing to do.

If nobody is buying what you're selling after a month of bumps, and you're not willing to bend on the price point, you're clogging up S&S trying to sell to the wrong crowd in the wrong place!

MT Gianni
08-08-2015, 11:18 AM
I am of the opinion that if the price is listed as firm then a lower offer is equal to taking a dump on their front lawn. My counter will generally be higher than the posted price. If listed as "or offer", "Offers considered" or something similar a 20%-25% is a good place to start.

snowwolfe
08-08-2015, 11:43 AM
Some people just can't resist and have to offer less. Often times they don't even have a use for what they are trying to buy. They just want that great deal then they come back and post "how did I do"? If the item is a gun. These are the same guys who have so much junk spread around their property they can't even navigate through it. It's all about the "deal"
Oh, and don't offer them less if they are selling because then the shoe flips and they'd get offended:)

Char-Gar
08-08-2015, 11:46 AM
If something is placed up for sale, that includes an offer to negotiate the final price. "Firm price" is often just a negotiating tactic and should be considered as such. If a person is going to get his nose out of joint about a lower offer, they they should stay out of the market place.

However some offers can be so low as to be insulting. I would never offer anybody less than 50% of the asking price. If the asking price is double or more what I think it is worth or am willing to pay, I will just walk on by. I have seen lots of stuff offered at ridiculous prices, I consider that "trolling for suckers" and won't waste my time with them. The insult factor on asking and offering cuts both ways.

Dframe
08-08-2015, 12:00 PM
When I see prices too high, I seldom even look again. I tend to not look at any item posted by that seller if I remember them posting at too high of a price.
Sometimes, I do get curious and I do look again, but not very often.

I do exactly the same!

GoodOlBoy
08-08-2015, 12:05 PM
Yeah I agree to that if you are a horse trader or dickerer as they call it up north then when you are selling you should be agreeable and courteous when somebody makes and offer as well. Half the time when I am selling something in S&S I don't know if my price is good or not, so that's why I usually say call me out on it, make an offer, etc. I know that's different that a no offers firm price statement, but it is what it is. And as was said I believe "FIRM" is just a negotiating tactic.

As for the "guys who want a deal for deals sake" I wish i could say that has never been the case with me, but back when I was able to work and had money there was a couple times that yeah, I just wanted to make a deal. These days, for me, it's all about saving every nickle I can.

God Bless

Richard

Der Gebirgsjager
08-08-2015, 12:10 PM
It seems to me that two diametrically opposed philosophies exist here, and probably throughout our economic society. The first would be the "priced as marked" philosophy, and the second the "haggle or offer" philosophy. One says, "I figured out what it was worth before I put the sticker on it", and the other says, "Nothing is really what it appears to be". I guess I would have to confess that I lean more toward the first than the second.

I've never been good at haggling, and rarely engage in it as either a buyer or seller. If the price tag says $100 and I don't want to pay that price I just walk on. I'll probably eventually see another one for less anyway, or if I don't and I still want it eventually I'll have the asking price. To me it's embarrassing to try to chisel someone down, and I don't much like them trying it on me. I know some folks are quite successful at the practice and it would appear that they save a lot of money. But you have to ask yourself, was the seller lying when he priced the item too high, or is the buyer lying when he tells him that it's worth less? Some, I realize, view haggling as a sport. I guess that's o.k. if both are players; but some, like myself, will give you a fair offer to begin with, which is on the price tag.

As has been said repeatedly, there is never any cause for rudeness---unless it is in response to rudeness, and then it is wise to think twice before responding in kind.

rockrat
08-08-2015, 12:34 PM
I learned the "sport" of haggling from my Grandfather. He was GOOD at it. If I see something at a decent price and I really want it, I will pay what is asked, but I really must want it. Otherwise, I will counteroffer. Too many times I have seen a "firm" price that is way overpriced and I will ignore the item. If it keeps getting bumped up, then after awhile, a few weeks, I might make an offer, but you can bet its going to be down quite a bit from what is asked.
If I am selling, I try and price it fairly, and if someone offers me a lowball offer, I just reply "thanks for the offer, but I don't think so". No need to get rude. Had someone "desperately" needing some brass and I had some extra. I had paid more than wholesale for it because of its scarcity, so asked for what I paid for it, plus shipping and $2 more (PO is 5 miles away, so gas money). They got pretty hot in their PM about how I was overcharging for the brass (they offered dealer price-shipped) as it was only going for $XXX. Replied that if they could find someone willing to sell them brass for that, more power to them, but I wasn't going to lose money so they could have brass and that they must not be quite as desperate for it.
Worst I have encountered on this board was someone offering something for sale and I was interested, so PM'd them. Didn't hear back for about a week, so PM'd again asking if they got my first PM. Got a reply back the effect "yeah, I did" and that was it. They have had bunch of stuff for sale I would have liked, but won't deal with them again.
But as this thread says, no need to get rude over an offer, just say "NO" and leave it at that.

retread
08-08-2015, 12:53 PM
I don't feel insulted if I don't get it for the price I want. I feel insulted when I ask politely and the seller calls me a dirty sob, or otherwise cusses at me via pm for even asking. I think if somebody is saying they need the money badly, and I am offering even CLOSE to what they are asking I AM offering respect. The only message I get when they are nasty is that they are not a person I would do business with AT ANY price. It isn't like I am hounding them over and over if I ask with a single pm about a deal, a barter, etc.

I don't have alot of spare money, or even any at the moment to be honest. So if I ask the seller if they would be willing to toss in the shipping on an item, and they are rude yeah i am offended. They coulda just said no, no thanks, etc. I had a person on this very board who was selling four items I was interested in. The only question I asked was if they would mind combining the shipping as they listed shipping extra on each item with the price as "FIRM", and all four items would have fit in a MFR box instead of four SFR boxes. I was informed that I could kiss a portion of their posterior if I didn't like their prices, they had already said "FIRM", and then they questioned both my intelligence and the status of my birth. Only they used short, rude words for each portion of the message.

Let me make this perfectly clear. I'm NOT offended if they don't take my offer. That's fine, it's their item so they are free to do what they want. I AM offended when I get cursed at, AND I do get offended when my question "just gets deleted". If you are offering an item for sale, and you can't have the common courtesy to answer even with two letters NO, then I just won't do business with you.

I grew up horse trading, going to flea and farmers markets, buying livestock, and going to yard sales. You don't even ask about the "best" price on an item and people take you for at best a fool and at worst a rich snob, and word gets around small towns. I try to never be rude to anybody, either with an offer, or just in conversation, and I won't tolerate people being rude to me.

God Bless

Richard


Very well stated. I agree 100%

I second that.

dragon813gt
08-08-2015, 01:27 PM
If something is placed up for sale, that includes an offer to negotiate the final price. "Firm price" is often just a negotiating tactic and should be considered as such. If a person is going to get his nose out of joint about a lower offer, they they should stay out of the market place.



Why does listing something for sale mean the price is open for negotiation? Why don't you accept the that firm price means firm price? And why should people stay out of the marketplace if they don't want to hear the low offers?

I'm asking because I have the opposite view as you. I don't haggle over price. My Uncle does it all the time and it drives me nuts. I guess I see what someone types as literal. Not as a negotiating tactic.

jsizemore
08-08-2015, 01:38 PM
Since we all speak the same language (well most of us anyway) and the seller is willing to take offers then they'll have "OBO" or "offers accepted" in their ad. I have to admit that I've probably missed out on some great deals since I didn't read minds or between the lines.

starmac
08-08-2015, 01:56 PM
I tend to be a buyer much more than a seller, but personally would never put OBO in a listing. Why would anybody pay the listed price when the seller starts out saying he will take less, no matter if the asking price is a great deal or not???

tnaz
08-08-2015, 02:18 PM
I don't feel insulted if I don't get it for the price I want. I feel insulted when I ask politely and the seller calls me a dirty sob, or otherwise cusses at me via pm for even asking. I think if somebody is saying they need the money badly, and I am offering even CLOSE to what they are asking I AM offering respect. The only message I get when they are nasty is that they are not a person I would do business with AT ANY price. It isn't like I am hounding them over and over if I ask with a single pm about a deal, a barter, etc.

I don't have alot of spare money, or even any at the moment to be honest. So if I ask the seller if they would be willing to toss in the shipping on an item, and they are rude yeah i am offended. They coulda just said no, no thanks, etc. I had a person on this very board who was selling four items I was interested in. The only question I asked was if they would mind combining the shipping as they listed shipping extra on each item with the price as "FIRM", and all four items would have fit in a MFR box instead of four SFR boxes. I was informed that I could kiss a portion of their posterior if I didn't like their prices, they had already said "FIRM", and then they questioned both my intelligence and the status of my birth. Only they used short, rude words for each portion of the message.

Let me make this perfectly clear. I'm NOT offended if they don't take my offer. That's fine, it's their item so they are free to do what they want. I AM offended when I get cursed at, AND I do get offended when my question "just gets deleted". If you are offering an item for sale, and you can't have the common courtesy to answer even with two letters NO, then I just won't do business with you.

I grew up horse trading, going to flea and farmers markets, buying livestock, and going to yard sales. You don't even ask about the "best" price on an item and people take you for at best a fool and at worst a rich snob, and word gets around small towns. I try to never be rude to anybody, either with an offer, or just in conversation, and I won't tolerate people being rude to me.

God Bless

Richard
Me three, and God Bless You Sir,

tnaz

Nueces
08-08-2015, 02:20 PM
Clearly, people come from all over the place on this issue. One thing is obvious, but seems to be sometimes overlooked in this discussion. Listing an item for sale does nothing to communicate your particular particulars. If you're a hair trigger sort of bloke, who won't entertain polite offers and intends to go able sugar on anyone who can't read your mind, then please add a short paragraph that specifies your personal limits to normal human interactions. Without such specificity, the rest of us, upon first approach, must treat you as a member of a very large class of unknown folks who sometimes don't communicate their meaning well. A rude reply to a polite offer is rude, that's all.

Perhaps we need a banner under our avatars that says something like "Howdy, neighbor" or "What the heck did you mean by that!?"

Much, much better interaction usually results from attributing a good motive to something I don't at first understand, until things are made clear.

snowwolfe
08-08-2015, 02:31 PM
A lot of people who are selling stuff do not need the money so they are able to price the item as firm. They just don't need the item anymore.
The people who really crack me up are the ones that say they can buy it cheaper somewhere else.
If this was true then why would they waste their time trying to haggle?

tnaz
08-08-2015, 02:48 PM
Read the WHOLE thread. I like to haggle, with that said, what I have learned from this is: List selling price with FIRM means don't ask for lower price. If price is listed, as, $100.00 ... then its ok to offer a price lower than listed for the item.

Main point learned: Treat everyone with respect; don't be rude. Using bad language anytime it rude!!!

Good read any how,

tnaz

brtelec
08-08-2015, 03:04 PM
If the price is listed as firm, and it is more than I am willing to pay, I am on to the next one. If their firm price is a negotiation tactic, it is a crappy one. I sell a few things here and there and most everything I sell on the forums usually sell in minutes. I have had a couple of items that did not, and had people make reasonable and ridiculous offers. I answer all offers with courtesy. It is possible that the guy making a ridiculous offer has that much disposable income and is hoping against hope that you will take it. It is certainly no reason to be rude. Being insulted by a low offer is beyond my comprehension. My biggest problem with online sales is how proud some people are of their used stuff. Why would I buy used to save 5% or $5.00,etc. I am stunned by the prices some people charge and other are willing to pay for used items. Amazing.

GOPHER SLAYER
08-08-2015, 03:24 PM
I just have to jump in here with my two bits worth. I have sold at swap meets, gun shows, yard sales and classified ads for many decades. I have learned a few things I would like to pass on. The first one is, don't start pointing out what is wrong with an item you want to buy. In doing so you have made two mistakes. The first one being, you have told the seller you really want the item. The second thing you have done is made the seller mad. The seller already knows the condition of the item and he resents you telling him about it. The second piece of advice is, if you are selling, don't put prices on anything. When I sell something I know what it was worth and when someone approached to look at the item, I sized them up and judged what I think they will pay. My wife and I were had a table at the big Pomona, Ca. gun show and on that occasion I was selling a lot of old spurs and bridle bits as well as reloading gear. Some of the horsey stuff was quite rusty and I had just dumped it on the table in a large pile. During a lull in the traffic my wife said, let me organize some of these pieces and put prices on them. I stopped her and said, let them do it. The very next man who came by started digging thru the rusty metal, stopped looked at us and said, isn't this fun. He was digging thru treasures. If I approach a table where everything is neatly displayed with little price tags on each item, I pass it by. It tells me that the seller knows full well what his stuff is worth and he doesn't want to be bothered talking about it. Another bit of advice, if you see an item you want, buy for the best price you can get the first time around. You don't want to come back later. I have bought and sold on this site as well and I am thankful that we have it to dispose of things we no longer want or need. Most of the things I have put up have sold in minutes. When I was new to the site I listed five Lyman #45 sizers with a choice of dies for $55 each. I was scrambling just to answer PMS. I won't do that again. I often see items listed here that I feel are over priced and I am shocked when they sell. Most of the time they don't. The seller just waits and lists the item again two months later, still over priced. When I see an item listed that is over priced I never inquire. About the only ting I buy anymore is brass and if it is listed for a dollar each, you can keep it. I will sell the gun first. Everyone has his own way of buying and I must admit, I am not good at dickering. I just don't do it well. If an item is not priced, I will ask the price. If it is too high I let it go. Sometimes that is enough to lower the price. If not, I can live without it. When I watch the TV show American Pickers I can't help but think, this is just not reality. There is no way those two guys can cruise the USA in an expensive Mercedes diesel van and buy the little pieces of rusty **** they load in the van and show a profit. I think they make their money from the network. Despite how I may come across in this little epistle, I am easy to deal with and have been very successful in my dealings with people. I like people and want to treat everyone fairly. I hope you take this advice in the manner it was written. Have a great day and God Bless.

Char-Gar
08-08-2015, 05:19 PM
Why does listing something for sale mean the price is open for negotiation? Why don't you accept the that firm price means firm price? And why should people stay out of the marketplace if they don't want to hear the low offers?

I'm asking because I have the opposite view as you. I don't haggle over price. My Uncle does it all the time and it drives me nuts. I guess I see what someone types as literal. Not as a negotiating tactic.

When living in Ecuador a fellow once asked me (translation from Spanish), "I have been told than in America there are "precios fijos" (fixed prices)." I told him yes and he was astounded at the concept. In the vast majority of the world, there is no such thing as a "firm price". I won't say that American's are unique in this regard, but they are very much in the minority. As far as I am concerned, fixed prices goes against human nature and is counter intuitive. You have to be culturally trained to think it is normal.

dragon813gt
08-08-2015, 05:50 PM
Well I'm born and bred here so it's normal. I don't care about how they do it in other countries. I honestly hate presenting a bill to someone from India or an Asian country. They try to haggle w/ you over the cost. We're flat rate and they agreed to the price before I did any work. It's led to quite a few people being sent to collections.

shooter93
08-08-2015, 05:59 PM
I don't sell much really and have had a few people offer less than what I asked. I'm always polite but I never change the price. Much of this comes from running a small construction business for decades. I give the person a price for the work they requested. If they ask me how much less I'd do the work for that strikes me as your automatic assumption that I padded an estimate and will over charge you if I get the chance. I doubt many people would be very happy is every week they came to work they were asked....will you work for a dollar less an hour this week or work without your benefits this week.

Edward
08-08-2015, 06:02 PM
In reply to( Good Old Boy) could not of stated it better ,so me too!

JonB_in_Glencoe
08-08-2015, 06:45 PM
My 2¢

Every venue for buy/sell/trade is different.
Since the OP was talkin about our S&S section, I'll stick with that as well.

It seems everything that is priced fairly here, will sell in 24 hours or less.
So, I make it a practice to never offer less in that first 24 hours. If I want it and I like the price listed, I'll post an "I'll Take it" and send a PM.

If something is still for sale 24+ hours later, and if I am interested, but not at the price listed, I'll then make an offer via PM, (even if the listing includes "price firm"). No one should be rude over "just an offer", even if they feel insulted.

OK, with that said, I can say, "yeah, I am pretty sure I have insulted more than one member here with offers". One time, that I recall, I got a rude response. I did what that member should have done, and just let it go.

fatelk
08-08-2015, 07:01 PM
This has been a very informative thread. I've enjoyed reading the vastly different perspectives. It almost seems to be a cultural divide of sorts.

I don't buy or sell much anymore (never did really) but the info and insight contained I this thread could be useful in the future.

Bored1
08-08-2015, 07:34 PM
I don't see a problem with "lowball offers". Personally, neither in offering them or receiving them. I've taking considerably less for some items than orginally planned and gotten much more for things than I thought they were worth. But thats all part of the swapping and selling in my opinion. I don't see any reason to be rude or ignore anyone for offering me less than I ask either, and would hope that anyone who sees any offer I make as "lowball" would at least send a "No" back.

Just my 2 cents worth.

jcwit
08-08-2015, 07:43 PM
I never low ball as I've been in my own retail business years ago. However I usually ask is the seller can or will do any better, this gives them the choice.

Years ago I attended a gun show and saw a pistol I though I would be interested in. I asked the dealer if they could do any better price wise, this was mid afternoon on Sunday. I was informed the price was on the tag, take it or leave it! I told the dealer a dime would have made the sale as I flashed $1,000 dollars in his face and walked off, with him yelling for me to reconsider. He was without a doubt a boar.

Jeff Michel
08-08-2015, 08:23 PM
Haggling is an art unto itself. It's also a dieing art. Most people don't appreciate the "fun" involved in haggling. They see the price and pay it without a murmur. Years ago many retailers enjoyed the opportunity to haggle as it lead to usually larger purchases by the prospective customer. Many years ago, I went into a small clothing store looking for a new jacket and lo and behold there was the spiffiest leather jacket you ever saw. It was also 45.00 dollars if I remember correctly and very close to being out of reach. An elderly gentleman turned out to be the owner, asked me if needed any help and I told him that I was interested in his jacket but it was more than I could afford. Later I found out his name was Jacob and he was from Israel and he was a haggling pro. Oy vey! he swore to me his kids would starve, his wife would leave him and he'd end up living on the street. Having been trained by some of the best horse traders that graced the southern US I wasn't about to let this mere haberdasher have his way with me. Long story shortened, I ended up with the jacket and good pair of trousers (that he fitted) and a tie. He threw in a cup of coffee and about an hour of conversation. I learned a lot from that man over the years, not the least that he really missed customers that in days past would dicker over the most mundane item. I bought a lot of clothes from him for over a decade and never once did I pay the ticketed price but I always left with a whole bunch more merchandise than I planned and looked forward to every visit. After that, a trip to Kohl's or Walmart is...well.

9.3X62AL
08-08-2015, 08:54 PM
Jeff, that is a rich, wonderful story.

I need to be in the mood for it if I get called upon to haggle. Like a lot of us, I am about through with a lot of elements of firearms hobbies, mostly due to the greed of the sales wonks and their over-priced tariffs on things that are truly absolute luxury items for me. $100 bricks of 50-year-old barn-stored rat-chewed Monkey Wards 22 LR ammo are a real disincentive to any form of negotiation, just like $3200 Colt Pythons and $1700 Colt SAAs. My S&W 686 x 4" is a far better service gun, my Uberti Cattleman is the equal of the Hartford product (if not the same darn thing), and both cost about 1/4 as much as their Colt counterparts. Yes, I was born at night.......but it wasn't LAST NIGHT.

Short version.......a lot of us have short fuses these days for the BS, hucksterism, and horse excreta that a lot of gun and accessory dealing can become. Don't go to that well too often, or you could come up dry at a time of great thirst.

GoodOlBoy
08-08-2015, 10:17 PM
Oh don't get me wrong. There's been folks on here who had such good deals I didn't dare wait to let pms go back and forth for haggling. When that happens a simple "I'll take it" and it's done. Mostly it just struck me how rude some folks get about something that's been listed awhile, that nobody else showed any real interest in, and you offer a deal and get a earful in return.

The world takes all kinds. But yeah if you ever leave the US you will find that haggling around the world is mostly expected. And in some countries it's a downright ART. Heck it's downright funny to just watch others do it in some countries.

I'm just an old country boy raised in river and creek bottoms by a much older generation of folks.

God Bless

Richard

Four-Sixty
08-08-2015, 11:03 PM
When I got quotes for roof repairs I knew I was being "sized up" to. Disgusting!

I know there are people who poor mouth to get a better price to. Shame!

tommag
08-08-2015, 11:40 PM
I seldom haggle. If the item is something I want, and the price asked is reasonable, I buy. When I see an ad that says firm, I usually don't look any further. Something about the firm word that turns me off. Same thing with restrictions on payment options. usps money order only make me move on.

fatelk
08-08-2015, 11:52 PM
I never low ball as I've been in my own retail business years ago. However I usually ask is the seller can or will do any better, this gives them the choice.

Years ago I attended a gun show and saw a pistol I though I would be interested in. I asked the dealer if they could do any better price wise, this was mid afternoon on Sunday. I was informed the price was on the tag, take it or leave it! I told the dealer a dime would have made the sale as I flashed $1,000 dollars in his face and walked off, with him yelling for me to reconsider. He was without a doubt a boar.

Yep, I was visiting with a friend years ago on a Sunday afternoon as he had a table at a show, and a guy came up to haggle him down on a nice hunting rifle he had. He politely replied that he couldn't take $100 off the $700 gun, as I recall, the best he could do was knock off $5. I expected the guy to be offended but instead he started peeling off cash!

After the guy left my friend said "sometimes all you have to do is throw them a bone."


Here's another funny one (stolen from the Readers Digest many years ago, IIRC):
An older gal was rummaging through items on a table at a garage sale (early bird hard core garage sale pro- you know the type).

She picks up an item and asks "Will you take fifty cents for this?"
The owner replies "Actually Ma'am, I think that's the quarter each table. Everything's 25 cents."

"Oh", she hesitates, momentarily thrown off her game, "Well, in that case, will you take ten cents?"
:)

Elkins45
08-09-2015, 12:17 AM
Human nature.

Two guys had tables at a gunshow within viewing distance of each other and happened to have virtually identical guns, except one had the box. The one with the box was $525 (firm) and the other was $550.

Guy comes up, looks at both, comes back to the firm guy and offers him $500.
Seller says "No thanks, price is firm."
Guy walks over to other table, offers $500.
Seller says "No, but I'll split the difference with you at $525."
Guy buys the gun without the box at $525 when he could have gotten the boxed one for the same price.

But he talked the guy down...

I once watched my dad haggle a $10 vacuum cleaner down to $8 at a yard sale. I was a grown man at the time and I vaguely knew the family selling it. I was halfway tempted to pull out $2 and give it to him so I could just load up the vacuum cleaner and be done with it. I asked him about it in the truck as we were driving away and he said (with a not inconsiderable amount of pride) "I knew he would let it go for $8."

About three years ago a gun shop in Crestwood, Ky (Open Range) offered me $150 on a S&W 686 (pre-lock) in trade on a used revolver priced at $850. I just turned around and left, and I've never been back. I think that's the one time I was truly insulted by a low ball offer. I ended up selling that gun for cash and I had guys tripping all over themselves to buy it at $550.

Char-Gar
08-09-2015, 11:21 AM
Human nature.

Two guys had tables at a gunshow within viewing distance of each other and happened to have virtually identical guns, except one had the box. The one with the box was $525 (firm) and the other was $550.

Guy comes up, looks at both, comes back to the firm guy and offers him $500.
Seller says "No thanks, price is firm."
Guy walks over to other table, offers $500.
Seller says "No, but I'll split the difference with you at $525."
Guy buys the gun without the box at $525 when he could have gotten the boxed one for the same price.

But he talked the guy down...

I once watched my dad haggle a $10 vacuum cleaner down to $8 at a yard sale. I was a grown man at the time and I vaguely knew the family selling it. I was halfway tempted to pull out $2 and give it to him so I could just load up the vacuum cleaner and be done with it. I asked him about it in the truck as we were driving away and he said (with a not inconsiderable amount of pride) "I knew he would let it go for $8."

About three years ago a gun shop in Crestwood, Ky (Open Range) offered me $150 on a S&W 686 (pre-lock) in trade on a used revolver priced at $850. I just turned around and left, and I've never been back. I think that's the one time I was truly insulted by a low ball offer. I ended up selling that gun for cash and I had guys tripping all over themselves to buy it at $550.

It is unreasonable to expect gun shops to offer you an amount for your gun anywhere near what they will sell it for. There is no profit in doing business that way. Now some gunshops are looking for more profit that is reasonable and I just walk away from the deal. I consider 75% of retail to be a fair offer, anything less than that, I won't take. In these days of Gunbroker and other types of internet sales, taking trade in price does not make sense, unless you are just burning to have the new gun and that is the only way you can get it...right now!

Getting your (generic you) emotions involved in either buying or selling is always a mistake. This is how folks get bent over.

blackthorn
08-09-2015, 02:15 PM
Years ago I had a truck I wanted to sell. I advertised it in the paper for $1850.00, which I considered a fair price. Every call I got on that truck tried to get it for less. My (EX) said wait a week and relist it at a higher price and see what happens. So I did. I listed it at $2700.00, and the first guy who looked offered me $2250.00. He bought a truck!

Went to a flea market, and I was looking at an oval, braided area rug. Asked the seller what he wanted and he said $20.00. As I was thinking it over, a Chinese gentleman came along and asked the seller how much for the rug? The seller looked at me and I said "go ahead". $45.00 he said and the Chinese gent said "that is too much I give 35.00." After he left the guy said "I price things as to what I think they are worth and when I know from experience certain people are going to offer less, I jack up the price".

If someone has "firm" on an item I consider the to be the price, but if there is just a dollar figure, I may well make an offer for less. I know what I am willing to pay and I try to be fair.

dtknowles
08-09-2015, 02:46 PM
This has all been very interesting. I don't enjoy buying or selling anything. I have too much stuff but can't be bothered to sell any of it, it is just a bunch of hassle, as noted from many of the posts in this thread and the packages lost in the mail threads. Since I have too much stuff I hesitate to buy more stuff, except consumables.

I have and do haggle when the marked price is clearly set expecting some negotiation.

I prefer firm prices set at the market price. When I want something I don't mind paying full fair price.

When I sell stuff I usually price it under market (or sell at auction)because I am just trying to move it out and don't want the hassle of haggling, usually get a full price offer right away and often get asked if I have anything else for sale.

Tim

RogerDat
08-09-2015, 03:15 PM
You are free to charge all the customer will tolerate. But that also means not more than they will tolerate. One way you find out that price point is counter offers.

Seller only knows what it is worth to them or has sold for in recent sales (if they bother to check). Buyer only knows what they want or are willing to pay for the item.

I will also repeat what a couple of others have said. Sometimes the low offer is what the buyer can afford. Been there a time or two where the price I offered was what I had so I was putting it out there in hope of getting what I needed not hope of scoring a great deal.

MrWolf
08-09-2015, 04:09 PM
I have purchased here for the price stated and never thought of negotiating. I have kinda a weird code in that when I know folks could use the cash I pay the asking price. I have been lucky so far in that my livelihood did not depend on this hobby to provide, that may change after the divorce but I hope not :shock:

brtelec
08-09-2015, 04:45 PM
On the lines of gun shops and purchase prices, selling your firearm to a dealer is like taking your used car to a dealer to sell outright. Terrible idea. I was in the gun business for a number of years and the rule of thumb on a straight purchase is 40% of retail. If that was unreasonable we also offered consignment at 20% of the selling price. As easy as it is to sell a firearm I have no idea why anyone ever took the 40%, but the bulk of them did. We told them up front what we pay, we offered them an alternative and if they took the money up front, that was on them.

GoodOlBoy
08-09-2015, 06:01 PM
I have kinda a weird code in that when I know folks could use the cash I pay the asking price.

that's true, I have done that as well. And if it's a benefit sell for somebody I don't try to haggle the price.

God Bless

Richard

starmac
08-09-2015, 06:56 PM
The one thing I have concluded from this thread, is there is no way to buy or sell that everyone approves of, so just continue on with what you have always done if it has been working for you. lol
Either that or just quit buying and or selling comepletly. lol

snowwolfe
08-09-2015, 08:25 PM
I have to laugh at the way people operate. Sold or listed a lot of stuff on craigslist and I am absolutely amazed at the people who call or email and offer me less for an item I am selling that they never seen in person.
My reply is always the same, "are you actually offering to buy this from me sight unseen for your offer". Then they always start mumbling or stuttering and never even end up coming over to look at the item. Losers and people wasting other peoples time.

kungfustyle
08-09-2015, 09:12 PM
one thing I've learned from the SS section. If its priced right it will move in 5 minutes. If its up for two days and you don't want to drop your price take it to E-bay or Gunbroker. Most people here are very savvy and there is a difference in a great price and what price you think you should get.

dragon813gt
08-09-2015, 09:24 PM
one thing I've learned from the SS section. If its priced right it will move in 5 minutes. If its up for two days and you don't want to drop your price take it to E-bay or Gunbroker. Most people here are very savvy and there is a difference in a great price and what price you think you should get.

By your logic I shouldn't have sold anything here then. Common items sold at ridiculously low prices sell in minutes. Oddball items take longer to sell because the number of people looking for one is a lot smaller. To say you should list elsewhere after two days is a ridiculous notion.

Teddy (punchie)
08-09-2015, 10:15 PM
I have walk away from a sale of guns over $20.00 . My buddies just look like what. I say the next gun at a 1200 plus table show is at the next table.

Also find if I ask to look at a gun and ask price and start to walk away they say make an offer. 99% of time I'm just looking. But thanks them and say have a good one. Got a double barrel once for 33% off tagged price, which was fair to start with.

Last things we got for the group, was a RCBS, scale and luber both for $85.00 both in great shape.

There is an art to know when and where to haggle.

starmac
08-09-2015, 11:05 PM
I have to laugh at the way people operate. Sold or listed a lot of stuff on craigslist and I am absolutely amazed at the people who call or email and offer me less for an item I am selling that they never seen in person.
My reply is always the same, "are you actually offering to buy this from me sight unseen for your offer". Then they always start mumbling or stuttering and never even end up coming over to look at the item. Losers and people wasting other peoples time.

Two ways to look at it. I have been known to offer less for an item on craiglist a time or two. Not gaurantee to buy, but I am interested at that price, that way it doesn't waste their time or mine.

TXGunNut
08-09-2015, 11:22 PM
Interesting thread. I don't come here to buy or sell, probably haven't been to S&S over a dozen times. If I offer something for sale it's because I have no use for it and hope to find someone who can use it. If my price is out of line please tell me. If my price is reasonable I'll entertain a lowball offer but I'll give it all the respect it's due, if that offends someone so be it. If you're making a lowball offer just for the fun of it I'll thank you for your interest and move on. I'd rather give something away than take a lowball offer.

RogerDat
08-10-2015, 06:45 AM
.......... If you're making a lowball offer just for the fun of it I'll thank you for your interest and move on. I'd rather give something away than take a lowball offer.

Yeah if the price offered is about like giving it away it would be hard to not respond that I only give stuff away to friends, family and charity. Which are you claiming to be?

Sometimes an item while it has some value it is not really worth selling, the profit won't be significant. Then giving it away to someone that can use it makes sense. Positive karma and bringing a bit more happiness into the world has more value than the little bit of money it would fetch. Same with deciding to sell something at a steal of a price that will make someone happy. Some of us have been around long enough to have been through financially tough times once or twice in our lives. Being in a position where one has a full belly, a roof over their head, and the ability to be generous is something to be enjoyed.

May not see that alot in the world but have seen it around here. Send me the money to cover the shipping and it's yours, or PM me your address and just pay it forward. So you see the offer isn't a low ball offer, it is someone giving you a chance to generate some good karma. ;-)

popper
08-10-2015, 10:18 AM
Never bought a car? It's called horse trading in this country. Pretty much expected outside the USA.

salpal48
08-10-2015, 10:54 AM
I never get offended with a low ball bid. I go to a lot Of Gun shows here on the East Cost. It's Called The Art of Dickering.. If you Don't Dicker and Dance Your Not Having Fun. Your not Buying and Your Not selling. If your the hard nose @ the show You do home with it
On line is a Little different
I enjoy dickering back and Forth. The only thing I'm firm on Is shipping. I don't charge shipping , I collect it. if you find an Item online with free shipping , You have paid too much.. I'm not The best but starting To hold my own. you get better as you go.
some Guys are better dickers than other but You learn fast when your raked over the coals. . it keeps you sharp. and Every guy has a unique style
next time Thake a deep breath and enjoy the fum
Sal

snowwolfe
08-10-2015, 11:42 AM
Two ways to look at it. I have been known to offer less for an item on craiglist a time or two. Not gaurantee to buy, but I am interested at that price, that way it doesn't waste their time or mine.

Then your offer to buy the item at that price was not really sincere was it?

white eagle
08-10-2015, 12:20 PM
I always research the prices on what I sell on s/s
and have been time where something didn't sell not because it was priced to high
but there was just no interest at the time in my listed item reposed it at a later date and sold
been offered low ball (in my opinion) offers but always declined its not that people want to offend you
but everyone wants to get a deal that how I tend to look at it

snowwolfe
08-10-2015, 12:31 PM
Remember, this thread started out about receiving low ball offers on items that were priced firm. No one is debating that dickering is not useful in other cases

salpal48
08-10-2015, 01:10 PM
There is No such thing a Firm prices. Money talks _ BS walks

Alvarez Kelly
08-10-2015, 01:32 PM
There is No such thing a Firm prices. Money talks _ BS walks

That not a true statement. I often price items at what I believe is a reasonable price. That is the price I'm willing to sell at. No. I won't take less. I have given members here first choice on many items over the years. Some sold here. Some didn't. But all sold.

Now... If I am not sure of the value, or just want an item off my bench, I may ask for offers or will auction the item. I've gotten a lot of nice barter deals that way. :-)

starmac
08-10-2015, 02:00 PM
Then your offer to buy the item at that price was not really sincere was it?

Extremely sincere. I often tell them I will take it at that price IF it is as they describe. Nothing is set in stone, but if I burn time and gas to go look at something I am at least planning on buying it.
I have driven several hundred miles several times to look at a truck, just to turn around and drive back, because it was not even remotely as described. Excellant, great and good shape apparently has many different definitions.

salpal48
08-10-2015, 02:12 PM
I found @ the shows when someOne Is faced with That decision there alway interested in Compromise. You already Know That You can't That this Junk with You . This stuff Is always @ Garage sales and It become a Buyer market. The kids don't Want it , The wife Don't want. I know If I don't sell Its in The junk Pile
Speaking Of Offers. I found never make Offers. That the wrong start. If you have to start @ 25 %.
you know what you want for it get it on the table. Both of You are scamming each other.
I have been doing Gun shows for 40 Years. The saying @ the show " I would Not Trust my Dear Mother If she was selling @ the shows. "

Sal

opos
08-10-2015, 02:12 PM
Living right near Tijuana and going there for years (not these days) and seeing all the Mexicans that hit the San Diego garage sales on weekends...there ain't no rules on anything...you want to price it firm and it's too much for me? I'm gone...I want to pay a low price and you don't want to take that price? I'm gone..but no rudeness and no whining because it's "not fair"..it is what it is....Like people that constantly whine about using snipe bids on Ebay..they say it's not fair and should be like any open auction...makes no sense when the snipe bidding is open to anyone that wants to use it....just got to have something to complain about.

ol skool
08-10-2015, 02:44 PM
....Like people that constantly whine about using snipe bids on Ebay..they say it's not fair and should be like any open auction...makes no sense when the snipe bidding is open to anyone that wants to use it....just got to have something to complain about.

GB's 15 minutes is better, more like a live auction and more fun. Get to get up, walk around rant and ponder for a few minutes.

Don't mind the ebay sniping, but loose items as out of town DSL is more like old dial up anymore. Just can't compete with cable, cell speeds. C'est la vie...

starmac
08-10-2015, 02:51 PM
To my way of thinking ebay sniping is a non problem. When I bid on something on ebay, I bid the most I want to pay on any given item, I don't see what difference it makes, if someone has already out bid mine, or it happens in the last 1/10 of a second. To my way of thinking it is about as fair of a system as you can get, and sniping is a non issue.

ol skool
08-10-2015, 05:45 PM
To my way of thinking ebay sniping is a non problem. When I bid on something on ebay, I bid the most I want to pay on any given item, I don't see what difference it makes, if someone has already out bid mine, or it happens in the last 1/10 of a second. To my way of thinking it is about as fair of a system as you can get, and sniping is a non issue.

Yea but, your not sniping. That's how ya get the adrenalin rush! LOL

dragon813gt
08-10-2015, 06:00 PM
Sniping is w/in the rules so it's fair game. You can't get mad if you're not using every tool to your advantage. I think I hate the 15 minute rule more.

ol skool
08-10-2015, 07:06 PM
Sniping is w/in the rules so it's fair game. You can't get mad if you're not using every tool to your advantage. I think I hate the 15 minute rule more.

Post #99:

"Don't mind the ebay sniping..." and "C'est la vie" which means such is life. Don't see any 'mad' there, do you? Just stating a fact, 45 seconds to snipe vs 7 seconds, I'll lose some. Such is life, eh?

I choose to live where there's no cell service and high speed internet. Wouldn't live in town for any money, especially just to win an ebay auction, LOL! Ahhh, no.

smokeywolf
08-10-2015, 07:27 PM
If someone lists a price and says that that price is FIRM, out of respect, I take them at their word. It is not my place to question their word. If they are not happy with their item not selling, they will adjust the price.

If you wish to buy what they are selling, but don't wish to pay their FIRM price, you can always say, "I'd like to buy your ______, but it's just too rich for my blood." You give them an opportunity to reconsider their price without insinuating that you don't believe them when they say, their price is "FIRM".

Duckiller
08-11-2015, 01:43 AM
If the seller says the price is Firm , he/she presumably means it. If you make a low ball offer then don't get upset if the seller says unkind thing to you. Firm means FIRM for 24 hours or 5 years. If you object to being called a cheapskate don't make lowball offers and don't spend a bunch of electrons trying to justify.

jcwit
08-11-2015, 11:02 AM
Then again, Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Nothing wrong with politely trying, worse that can happen is being turned down, but then if the seller wishes to make an *** of themselves, so be it.

Jtarm
08-12-2015, 12:37 AM
It's never happened here, but what irritates me the most are those magic words: "What's the best you can do?" when I'm selling.

Uh, the most I can get?

starmac
08-12-2015, 02:40 AM
It's never happened here, but what irritates me the most are those magic words: "What's the best you can do?" when I'm selling.

Uh, the most I can get?

Sorry, but I use that all the time, along with is that the best you can do, and what is your best price today with out backing down. lol

Jtarm
08-12-2015, 10:14 AM
Sorry, but I use that all the time, along with is that the best you can do, and what is your best price today with out backing down. lol

Hey, if it works, use it.

All you'll get from me is pointing to the price tag;-)

JonB_in_Glencoe
08-12-2015, 10:35 AM
Sorry, but I use that all the time, along with is that the best you can do, and what is your best price today with out backing down. lol
When it comes to, "what's the best you can do?", it's all about the presentation.

I had a married couple look at my 1998 Buick last summer, listed for $1350.

They asked for my bottom dollar.

I told them to make me an offer...I'm anxious to sell, I'll probably take your offer, so be sure you have the funds handy,

They continued to ask for my bottom dollar.

I continued to tell them to make me an offer.

After a couple rounds of this, it became a game and decided I wasn't gonna give them a lower price, I wanted to see if I could make them give me an offer, honestly I hadn't had that much fun in a long time.

They never made an offer and after about 45 minutes of this back and forth, they eventually left and I could see the wife was NOT happy. I never heard back from them.

I sold the car a week later for $900...and would have gladly sold it to them that day for $900.

Char-Gar
08-12-2015, 10:58 AM
Anybody who has even taken a business law class knows something about contracts to guy and sell. Such a contract requires an offer to sell for a certain price, to which comes either acceptance of the offer or a counter-offer, which can result in either acceptance, or a counter-offer from the seller. When there is no "meeting of the minds" , there is no contract and everybody goes along their way.

There are many negotiating positions and strategies among which is saying the initial offering price is "firm". Folks who are skilled in the marketplace read this as "I am going to be tough to deal with and you are going to have a hard time moving me off of my initial price". They do not read this as "If you make a counter offer I will be deeply offended".

This is the way things are done. There is no reason folks should make a moral or personal issue out of any of it. If a person is not a grown up, they should stay out of the market place.

bubba.50
08-12-2015, 03:30 PM
can we all agree that the three or four opinions possible on this thread have been beaten to death about 100 times over & just move on?

GoodOlBoy
08-12-2015, 03:49 PM
lol yeah I can Bubba!

GoodOlBoy