Curious if you would give up little accuracy for no leading?

[unique]

I have ruger flattop 44 special which seems to be most accurate with 7.5gr unique but always leaves enough leading that it takes more than couple pass to clean out barrel. That bothers me because to me leading is a sign that something is wrong somewhere and of course there is. The reason for the leading is slight thread choke which I plan to live with for now. Anyway, Boolit fit is otherwise where it should be. I played around with BHN of alloy and no real surprise as the harder alloy left more leading than softer alloy.

The other load is 14gr 2400 and this leaves no lead and will actually clean out the lead left by the unique load but of course just not quite as accurate...not bad but not the best.

I am not capable of properly fire lapping since I never know when to stop and would certainly end up with a smooth bore. I am the kind that after 47 years still overfills the lawnmower gas tank each and every week of the summer.

Thoughts???

Oh, one more thing...I have been resisting the call of the 44 special for a long time but now a true convert...but probably better saved for another thread.

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

I know this isn't exactly what you asked for but I suggest you try a powder that is between the 2 in burn speed. You may get the best of both loads, or you may get leading and less accuracy. But I suspect you will get some great results with blue dot or maybe even accurate #7

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

Also, what lube are you using? You might want to consider trying good old 50/50 with the unique load to see what happens. I guess what I am saying is try to fix the unique load before you accept leading or less accuracy from the 2400. Either of the powders in that cartridge in that gun can be made to give you a practically perfect load.

[Cowboy_Dan]

If the 2400 load can clean up after the Unique load, why not just load a few 2400's for the end of your sessions? You could even do this simultaneously with the above suggestions.

[leftiye]

Why would anyone ask that question??? Best accuracy will be with no (zero, nada, jilch) leading. And a good lube.

[leftiye]

Also, what lube are you using? You might want to consider trying good old 50/50 with the unique load to see what happens. I guess what I am saying is try to fix the unique load before you accept leading or less accuracy from the 2400. Either of the powders in that cartridge in that gun can be made to give you a practically perfect load.

Plus 1. There are a number of factors to manipulate other than (and before) powder to reduce leading.

[bobthenailer]

I also came across a leading issue using Unique powder in several handguns , switched to Bullseye powder, loaded to the same velocity as the Unique load , accuracy was just as good if not better and no more leading ! Haven't bought any unique powder in at least 25 years.

[Green Frog]

My bottom line is accuracy, BUT leading will degrade accuracy over time, so this is not an"either-or" question. I agree with previous posters who say you need to look at lubes, powder and sizing of the bullets to maximize accuracy while you simultaneously minimize leading. It probably goes without saying, but change (and test) only one factor at a time so you know what actually makes a difference. For instance, are the bullets (and size and lube) identical in the two loads you are comparing now?

Froggie

[unique]

Thanks everyone for the replies. The lube I am using is good old 50/50 javelin lube with all other variables being the same as well. I tried bluedot previously and had remarkable velocity consistency but really didn't like the sharper recoil and accuracy was so-so but probably me reacting to the sharper recoil. I just loaded some bluedot up and will try again. Thanks for the suggestion.

As I stated in my first post, I know what is causing the leading. I have a slight bit of thread choke where the barrel threads into the frame. This spot swages the bullet down and then I get gas bypass beyond that. A lower BHN typically helps and in this case it does but only to a point. So I don't really know what other variables I can play with given that my boolit diameter is .430, cylinder throats are .431, and thread choke point is .4285 (or so) and barrel groove is .429 after thread choke point. I suppose I can use gas check boolit but I don't want to. Concerning accuracy degrading overtime, I haven't really notice that, at least after 50 round volleys. It takes 5 or so boolits to lead up and then sort of stays at that level.

As far as "Best accuracy will be with no leading" I wish my revolver would follow that rule.

Unique

[sigep1764]

I've used Johnson Paste Wax on a patch riding a tight fitting jag to finely smooth out a bore with tool marks before. About 10-15 passes with a new patch and wax when I felt I was almost there. The barrel was noticeably smoother and easier to brush. And I get zero leading in it. I've now done this to every handgun I have.

[44man]

The makers of lubes here understand that some lubes only work best in some applications and all lubes do not work equally well in all applications. That's why many make more than one kind of lube; for different applications. If you want to know an easy way to whip up some beeswax/olive oil lube I can post it.
This! I was going to mention it but Larry usually has the answer.
I agree about the powder too, even in the 30-30 I have had to point the gun up between shots. I found it with more then one powder too.
I have made thousands of lube tests and one will shine in a rifle but fail very bad in a revolver.
All in all a softer lube will bridge the gap. The revolver needs some "sticky." Lanolin fills the bill very well. Any lube will benefit from some and it might be the most important ingredient.

[w5pv]

Use Bens Red lube,I have thousands rounds of ammo with no leading with all types of powder.

[chboats]

I agree with Cowboy Dan. Why not keep shooting the unique loads and at the end of each session run some of the 2400 loads through it to clean it out. Over time the choke will go away with out fire lapping.

Carl

[1bluehorse]

If you are going to be shooting cast bullets with this gun, I would fire lapp the thread choke out and be done with it.....besides the "no leading" issue other benefits from doing this is generally better accuracy and a bit more velocity.....go to Bear Tooth bullet website and look in the tech notes for "firelapping a stainless Ruger in 36 rounds", this is pretty much the method I have used on several Rugers, a couple Cimmerons and three Puma model 92 rifles....getting ready to do a couple 22 rifles pretty soon.....I use Marshall's firelapping kit.....read the instructions that come with it, especially the final "polish" step....when doing the fire lapp I shoot at a target from about 20 feet (lets you know the bullet has actually left the barrel cause' you're shooting veeery light loads) and when the "groups" tighten up (you will see this happen) that's when I quit.....it's a bit time consuming and somewhat messy but the benefits are worth the effort.....by the way I only make up 18 lapping loads at a time and use brass that I don't mind throwing away cuz you don't want to use it again.....lots of info on this out there and different "kits" but the kit from BTB has very good instructions and has worked very well for me......

[unique]

I have been seriously considering Bens Red and sort of counting on thread choke wearing away as I shoot. The thread choke isn't alot ( maybe .5mils max) and I am scared to fire lapp cause like I said I do not know when to quit. I did try bluedot again and did not get leading and accuracy was pretty good. I think I am going to spend some time dialing the bluedot in and experimenting with a few different lubes. I would like to know more about the olive oil/beeswax lube. Thanks for all the good replies.

[runfiverun]

you need to up that unique load.
try 8.5 grs and work toward 9.5 grs.
I use 7.2 in my 44 special.

upping the unique load will start to duplicate the pressure of the 2400 load
[unless you are really using 14grs which should be filling the barrel with un-burnt powder]

[unique]

you need to up that unique load.
try 8.5 grs and work toward 9.5 grs.
I use 7.2 in my 44 special.
]


I am confused. I am loading for 44 special. 9.5 gr unique seems a bit much?

[cajun shooter]

They have postings which are spot on as far as my years of shooting and doing armorer work has shown me. The very first thing I would do is change the lube you are using, don't be alarmed but the old standby of 50/50 has been surpassed in the lube dept. for many years. I would suggest that you start with a trial of using White Label's BAC lube. It works very well and is my go to pistol lube.
The next thing is I would use an alloy of 20-1 with the BHN of 10, this was the standard for many years for lead bullet shooting from revolvers. I use it in my BP shooting with speeds of 1100 FPS from my rifle with a clean bore and never no leading. I shoot bullets that are .002 above my bore size in my 44wcf guns used in SASS as they have bores of .427 in both revolvers and rifle.
I've used Unique powder since my first reloading started in 1969 and it has always been my most accurate powder when loading 44 spec., 44 mag., 41 mag. 45 Colt, and other calibers. The load of 8 grains was my first go to loading and proved to be the best I could shoot.
You have to be willing to break away from what you have been doing as it has not worked out. If your leading is at the muzzle end of the bbl., that points to your lube not holding up. Sometimes a simple change of any component will make a large difference on the target downrange, try it. Later David

[runfiverun]

woah I was off the mark I thought you were using the 44 mag.

if you look at the pressure of that 7.5 gr load in the 44 special your problem is going the other direction the pressure is higher with the unique load and where it is peaking compared to the 2400 load is totally in a different place.
the stress on the boolit is occurring over a longer period of time but at a lesser amount with the 2400.
the unique is pushing harder for a shorter duration of time.
and Is possibly allowing the boolit to relax a bit after a tight spot, whereas the 2400 is still keeping things plugged up only just enough throughout it's entire trip or until the barrel evens out.

[xrider472]

How old is your flat top? Approximately how many rounds thru it? 50 to 100 rounds of stiff jacketed loads might smooth your bore just enough. Brian Pearce mentions this in Handloader. Has worked for me with new Rugers.

[Iowa Fox]

To determine leading we need to know your cyl throat diameter's, barrel bore diameter, what your sizing to, and what lube your using.

[unique]

How old is your flat top? Approximately how many rounds thru it? 50 to 100 rounds of stiff jacketed loads might smooth your bore just enough.I have been wondering about this approach. I have somewhere around 500 rounds cast thru it. Would you suggest light and fast or heavy and slow?I am thinking 200gr and fast?This Is new to me but one of the original lipsey but essentially unshot when I bought it.

[xrider472]

I think either way will help. I have done this on a GP100, New Vaquero 45 Colt, & a flat top just like yours with good results.