cast moulds for silhouettes?

[tomo]

Hello folks,
I saw a mould catalog. There are some moulds which are recommended for use on silhouettes.
And I found an NRA rifle silhouette rules and recognized it is a kind of category.
But what is the difference between silhouettes and other purpose mould?
Thanks.

[John Boy]

Tomo, some more details please:
* What catalog?
* Which molds are recommended for silhouettes?
NRA Silhouette matches comprise chickens - pigs - turkeys and rams placed from 200 to 500 meters. Most shooters use a lighter bullet for the chickens at 200m and heavier bullets for the other silhouettes.
As with brands of cars - BPCR shooters have a personal preference of the brand of and weight of the bullet they want to use ... depending on the rifle caliber they shoot
So to answer your post, need more information of the brand and bullet molds
Example: I shoot silhouettes using 38-72, 45-60 and 45-70 caliber bullets made by different mold makers.
Some folks use just two: The Lyman 457124 and 457125 old government round nose bullets that are 385 and 500gr bullets

[MBTcustom]

Don't get lost in space with nomenclature. A cast bullet is a cast bullet and almost any of them can be made to wear more than one hat.
The difference with a silhouette bullet is that it is meant to be shot at steel, and no thought was given to making it suitable for shooting game with, and nobody cares how clean a hole it makes in paper, so often you see very aerodynamic bullets with small meplats being referred to as "silhouette bullets". That doesn't mean this is always the case, and it doesn't mean they can't be used for shooting anything else that needs a hole in it. It's just the designers nod towards the purpose he had in mind when making it.

[tomo]

Hello John Boy,
I saw Lyman catalog (http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/catalogue-download/pdf/Lyman%20Catalog.pdf). Page 47 shows rifle moulds. I have a 311291, .30 cal 170 gr. which has no symbol keys.
But 160, 180, 190 gr. moulds have symbol which means silhouettes.
In Japan, no shooting range has silhouettes. For rifle shooting, only paper targets are permitted.

[country gent]

There a couple other aspects that get a cast bullet designated as shillouette also one due to rnges they are fired out to is Ballistic coefient. Shillouette bullets tend to have higher BCs. Second is they tend to be heavy for caliber to carry enough energy to knock over long range targets. This can become an issue with lighter bullets and calibers. Second is desighns that tend to tranfer energy to the targes better. On good days seeing the bullets impact on the target is enlightening. You see a cloud of dust that is the nose of the bullet disentigrating and a small portion of the remaining base drop or go into the berm. On some you dont see the base as the whole bullet is in the dust cloud. On standing targets a ring but no falls is a miss. On swingers seeing movement and or hearing the hits scores. On rams at 500 yds I have to really pay attention for my partners 38-55 ( 312 grn rcbs mould) hits as its just a tink and little wiggle on the heavy rams. My 45-90 with 550 grn bullets has no problems showing or hearing hits. LOL. W normally cast our bullets from 20-1 alloy and these seem to transfer energy to targets good.

[tomo]

Hello goodsteel,Thanks for solving my question. Wow. It was just only ad word.I thought NRA might have some regulations about bullets which are used for silhouette shooting.

[tomo]

Hello county gent,Thanks for details. Now I understand it will work well for long range shooting.I saw over one mile shot on youtube and read Bob Swagger books.But it is a pity that in Japan, even the longest range has only 300m (330 yards).Anyway, I am going to cast with white metal which contains 6% Sn, 10% Sb and 84% Pb.

[MBTcustom]

Hello county gent,Thanks for details. Now I understand it will work well for long range shooting.I saw over one mile shot on youtube and read Bob Swagger books.But it is a pity that in Japan, even the longest range has only 300m (330 yards).Anyway, I am going to cast with white metal which contains 6% Sn, 10% Sb and 84% Pb.

Is there any way you can cut that with pure lead? If you mix 1 part of your "white metal" with 2 parts pure lead, you'll have a very good alloy that can do anything straight white metal will do by itself.

[GabbyM]

With cast bullets some pointy looking bullets have lower ballistic coefficients than round or flat nose bullets. Sometimes due to lube grove shapes that act like a drag chute. Case in point. Lee #C309-150-F flat nose 150 grain 30 caliber bullet VS Lyman #311672 pointy 160 grain bullet with a B.C of .245 vs the Lee B.C. of .264. Go figure. I have the Lyman bullet and it shoots great and fast. It has two wide and deep lube groves so as far as I can figure that's the drag point. A direct replacement for the Lyman 311672 would be the 30 XCB bullet goodsteel and others have designed. B.C. advantage of .040 over the Lyman bullet plus a stronger body. 310 165Gr. FN 4 cavity GC (30XCB) at NOE molds.

Last week the grandson and I were shooting 200 grain Lyman 311299 with B.C. of .377 at 2,200 fps from a 30-06 Win M70. Something like 42.0 gr of AA 4064. Ringing a gong at 330 yards over tops of soy beans. Alongside standing corn which handily blocks some wind. It always helps to know how to cheat a bit where the novice spectator won't know it. That big 200 grain bullet does let you know you've been out shooting a real rifle however. I started getting a little flinch after around fifty rounds. Started thinking how much I enjoy shooting my 222 Rem with cast.

[tomo]

goodsteel, thanks for alloy information.
I can buy pure lead here and it is 20% cheaper than white metal.
I will try!

[tomo]

country gent, I am sorry that I misspelled your handle name.

[tomo]

GabbyM, I didn't know that lube grove acts as resistance. I will check their shape carefully and imagine.
Your grandson must be happy because he can go shooting with and learn a lot from you.

[Cowboy_Dan]

Another welcome from Stateside, Tomo. That white metal you have is very nearly linotype, very rich metal. Goodsteel's 2-1 pure to white metal recipe makes it into wheel weights with some extra tin. You could even mix the 2-1 alloy 50/50 with pure again for softer alloy if you get a chance to hunt or for low velocity plinking. Works well in hand guns too, but they may not be available to you. However, the softest alloy is not as versatile as Goodsteel's. Happy casting and be safe.

[country gent]

One thing to remeber is that here out to 600yds is considered mid range ( according to the NRA and some others). long range starts at 800 and goes thru 1000 yds. Shooting those distances takes alot of attention to details, especially with cast bullets. Our farthest local private range is 600 yds with Camp Perry and a couple other military bases going to 1000 yds. Civillians are only allowed on the military ranges during scheduled events though. And most of the private clubs only allow 300+ yds during scheduled events also for saftey reasons. It is a lot of fun and quite rewarding to shoot these distances, Seeing the target go down at 1000 yds and come up marked with 10 or X and that big white marking disc in the middle is a real feeling of accomplishment.

[John Boy]

Tomo - I saw the various icons that Lyman is now using for different type bullets. Honestly, I don't know who or why the specific 30 caliber bullets are recommended for silhouette.

But based on an initial 7" five shot group on a Ram swinger at 500 meters, here's the 'best' silhouette and target bullet in 30 caliber that I use in my '94 Winchester for lever matches... the 169gr Ideal 311413 gas check mold that is always being sold on eBay. When Lyman bought out Ideal Molds, sadly this bullet was discontinued and the cherries thrown out.
145943
In the old Ideal catalogs, it was advertised as "the most accurate target bullet to 600yds" and the reason I bought it and proved it to be true words!

[MT Chambers]

Back in the day of my pistol silhouette shooting, a recommended bullet for the .357 Mag and .357 Max., was the Saeco or RCBS 200gr. gas check bullet, a heavy and somewhat aerodynamic bullet that was able to knock the steel targets down at 200yards. This bullet is usually used now in the various .35 cal. rifles. It is a good example of "heavy for caliber" bullets used in the .357 to compete with the .44s and knock over the heavy rams.

[tomo]

Hello, Cowboy_Dan
Thanks for another recipe. Deer hunting in northern area does not permit using bullets which contain any lead.
I am going to use cast bullets just for target shooting so far. If I want to make it softer and cheaper, I will try yours.

[tomo]

country gent, I perfectly agree with that long range shooting is a great fun even though I can not try it here.
I saw a lot of people who made great shots like Bob Swagger.

[tomo]

John Boy, thanks for showing the legendary bullet. I saw many old moulds sold on eBay as you wrote.
trying many must be fun and then I might become a mould collector if I lived in the US. haha

[tomo]

MT Chambers, thanks for the story.

My cousin in WA took me to his local range and let me shoot his Beretta handgun a couple of decades ago.
I had never shotten any handguns and found it was difficult to shoot targets at 50 yards. Before that handgun shooting
was seen on just TV or movies, and I saw actors shoot far exactly. So I was cast down at that time.
But I understood it has a similarity between legendary Japanese sword.

You shot 200 yards with your pistol? Wow. It's amazing. I want to study and try it when I visit my cousin.

[.22-10-45]

Welcome to the forum tomo! What rifle caliber are you shooting cast in?

[tomo]

Thanks for welcoming me.
I am making 30-06 and 243win so far. Casting bullets are similar to cutting gemstones for me. It's fun!

[.22-10-45]

I too cast for the .30-06...I have a 1903 brl. date 1917 which I use the Ideal 311413. Don't cast for .243 but I use the Lyman 245498 @ 100grs. in a Winchester-Lee 1895 straight-pull sporting rifle. It is fun isn't it? I've been at it for 45 years..and I'm still learning.

[tomo]

I have only two moulds for 30 cal so far. 170 gr. Lyman and 130 gr. RCBS. I have been slug casting for a decade but am totally newbie for rifle bullets.
You're casting for 45 years and still learning? I am same as a baby.:razz: But I am happy with the life time long hobby.

[castalott]

There are several types of silhouette shooting. I like them all but this looks to be a lot of fun...

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=cowboy+silhouette+shooting&FORM=VIRE7#view=detail&mid=EDE7C8E5137C83D8D13BEDE7C8E5137C83D8D13B

[castalott]

Another short clip...

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=cowboy+silhouette+shooting&FORM=VIRE5#view=detail&mid=5B36224306D12B94169B5B36224306D12B94169B

[tomo]

Thanks for showing great shootings. It looks old style but is accurate. It must be fun.

[.22-10-45]

Just wondering where your getting lead in Japan? Are there any restrictions as far as health issues? Here in U.S. EPA has tried to make lead public enemy no.1 What rifles are you shooting?

[tomo]

I buy lead at local alloy shop or weighs at fishing gear shop since I have no connection with scrap yard so far.
Industries must have some restrictions with lead but I don't have any because of using small amount of lead as personal hobby.
I am shooting casting bullets with Browning X-bolt 30-06.