What to make 7.62x25 Tokarev brass from?

[DonMountain]

As the title goes, what brass can be converted to 7.62x25 Tokarev brass and how difficult is it? Any special dies or tools needed to make the conversion?

[rmatchell]

Try trimming 223 and running through a full length die then trim again. Might run a lil large but should get you close

[Outpost75]

If you value your time and labor as more than slave wages, why would you even bother to rework 5.56 brass, when you can buy new, high quality brass from Starline?

Even with FREE brass as feed stock, I value my time more highly than that.

[brstevns]

A long time ago I made some using .223 brass. I had a RCBS file trim die. Still needed to outside turn the necks are inside ream. They did work. I also made them from 38 spec. brass but you will need to turn the rim down.

[rmatchell]

Its easier to buy the brass but its always nice to know how to make it yourself.

[Zaneiel]

case forming from .223 isnt bad if you only do a coupel hundred at a time, otherwise you may drive yourself insaine, kind of like loading 1 round at a time on a single stage press ... uuuggghhh

[Dan Cash]

As the title goes, what brass can be converted to 7.62x25 Tokarev brass and how difficult is it? Any special dies or tools needed to make the conversion?
Coin of the realm works best. Buy proper brass or rebore/rebarrel to 9 mm Parabellum.

[GhostHawk]

I have some .223/5.56 Military issue Blanks that I have been slowly converting into 7.62x25. I believe the blanks are thinner brass, which makes the process a bit easier. But I recently just gave up and bought 5 boxes of Privi Partizan 7.62x25 simply so I don't have to mess with this to just to shoot my Cz-52.

Doable, yes, pain in the posterior, yes, hard to find a mold that will go into the chamber far enough to let the round enter fully and the slide go into battery, yes. In the end, dollars saved lost vs pains. Your mileage may vary or be different from mine.

[kencha]

I agree with the general consensus. It can be done cutting down 223. I only had 5.56 NATO brass when I tried, and it all required neck turning, and definitely benefited from annealing prior to necking down. It was more work than it is worth to me. It doesn't help that my only 7.62x25 really flings the brass, so I end up losing quite a few. All of that work for 1 use? No thanks.

I did one little batch of 100, and have another 100 cut and formed, waiting to neck turn. They'll probably end up being scrapped during my estate sale. Starline or PPU for me.

[brstevns]

Guess I am one of the few that enjoys this part of loading as much as shooting. :coffee: Try making 43 Spanish from 300 win mag sometime.

[bruce drake]

Yes. Part of the fun of reloading for me is the reforming brass while saving money for powder and primers. cast lead 100gr non-gaschecked bullet and reformed 5.56 commercial brass (Milspec does require neck turning) with alox lube and 4gr of powder and a small pistol primer and I'm good to go for less than the cost of a 22LR to plink with.

[bob208]

I made up a big batch years ago when you could not get brass for .30 mauser. I am down to about 100 now . but when I need more I will make it again. I am retired now and have more time then money.

[GRUMPA]

I've used both in the past, both 38spl and 223 cases. Although they both can be made to work the 38spl brass is much easier to work with providing you have access to a lathe.

223 case: trim to length, form, ream.

38spl: Form, trim, remove head and cut a new extractor groove..

[Cowboy_Dan]

There is also a 9x25 case that can be formed down, but they seem to be rarer than 7.62x25.

[Herb in Pa]

I've made it from 9mm win mag brass.........a lot less work than the 223 route.

[Charley]

The 9mm Win Magnum case is a LOT easier to reform to 7.62x25. .223/5.56 needs neck reaming, .38 Special needs rim turned and extractor groove recut. 9mm Mag needs running through the sizing die. I've tried them all when 7.62x25 wasn't available. Biggest problem with 9mm Mag is people who get mad at you for "ruining it" when they are looking for 9mm Mag! Now that brass is available again, easiest conversion is to convert cash to brass.

[skeettx]

Best is here

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/762x25-Tokarev-Brass/

but in the past I made MANY using 223 brass and 9mm Win Mag brass
Swage primer pocket, if needed.
Using extended shell holder, RCBS 7.62x25 trim die. Whack it off
Put in my electric RCBS trimmer with cutter modified to hold
a Forster inside neck reamer.
Chamfer, full length size and load
All done, what a pain, but necessary in the old days before Starline.

Mike

[Tackleberry41]

I have done it, it is way more work than its worth. The trimming and sizing is easy, its the reaming. And not all brands of brass seems to work as well. I converted some, just a mix of stuff laying around, some worked fine some wouldnt extract very well. Certain brands did it consistently. And being what it is, alot of work for brass your liable to only get one use out of. Now if you could use a heavier spring in a tokarev, I have 24lbs spring in a 1911 conversion, they dribble out the side with full power loads.

I just went and bought a 500rd bag from Starline, should last a while.

[bruce drake]

This is how I see 223 Rem (5.56x45) Commercial cases:
1st to 3rd loads - Highpower Match use. Used for high velocity jacketed loads
4th-5th loads - cut down to 300BLK (7.62x35) use or converted to cast boolit 223 Rem usage
6th-10th loads - cut down to 7.62x25 use with Lee's 93gr Roundnose boolit mold. By that time, if I lose it in the high grass at the range, I'm not too worried about losing new brass...

[Twmaster]

I've made Tok brass form both 38 SPL and 223/5.56. As others have pointed out ease depends on tooling at your disposal.

If you have access to a small metal lathe the 38 SPL brass is 'easiest'. If you don't then 223 is your option.

Half of my bag of brass for the Tokarev these days is reformed. The rest range pick-ups. But I'm lucky in that I still have about 1000 rounds of COMBLOC surplus ammo too.

[GhostHawk]

I recently gave up and bought 250 rounds of Privi Partizan so I could just quit messing with this stuff.

Much more satisfying to me to make and load .300BO brass.

[bbqncigars]

I did the 9mm mag conversion back when. Now I've got the real thing from Starline, and I still have an unopened box of that mag brass.

[MI2600]

I don't mind the rather long process of converting the .223. It tends to fill those long winter nights and beats watching reality TV. The .223 brass is cheap and plentiful, and I use it for the Tokarevs, .30 Mauser, .221 Fireball, and .222 Remington.

[vonzep]

There are a surprising number of people making 22tcm and 7.62x25 from 5.56/223 brass. We just ran another batch of cut down jigs for it.

[9.3X62AL]

In times "B.S.E" (Before the Starline Era) I first tried using 223 Rem brass reformed and cut off. They worked fine, but some element of my being did not like that .012" or thereabouts diametric clearance. Picky, I know. The obvious solution at the time (c. 1991) was to grab 500 of the Winchester 9mm Magnum pieces and commence reforming. Yes, I did all 500 of them over a half-dozen sessions. I still have about 150 of them running around, but have gone the route of Starline. Their necks are a lot more user friendly.

Not a thing in the world wrong with reformed/cut-off 223 in this application, though.

[Kilroy08]

With regards to the neck reamer, I made the mistake of getting the Forester .308 reamer from Midway. I think that's for fired brass that hasn't been resized yet.

The end result was that the necks on the newly formed cases were oversize on the inside diameter. Bullets would push in with the touch of a finger and proper neck tension was impossible.

I had some newer commercial ammo available and once I made some once fired cases, I resized and measured the neck wall thickness and neck inside diameter. It looks like you want a .300 reamer to do the job on converted .223/5.56 brass.

Forster offers custom reamers for their case trimmer for around $40. Since I already have the one reamer, I'm just going to have at it with a reamer sharpener and reduce it to the size I need.

[skeettx]

I run the 223 brass through the RCBS 30 Mauser trim die using an extended #10 shell holder
and lop them of with a jewelers hack saw.

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/537268/rcbs-trim-die-30-mauser

Then I have modified the cutter of the motorized RCBS trimmer tool to hold the Forster 308 inside neck
reamer and final trim and inside neck ream. Then I chamfer, THEN I final full length size and all is well.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/481398/rcbs-trim-pro-power-case-trimmer-kit-110-volt

Mike

[rbuck351]

My dad brought a Tok back from WWII and when I started loading the only thing you could do was try to find already hard to get 30 Mau. or modify the 38spl. Starline didn't exist and neither did the 223.

[9.3X62AL]

With regards to the neck reamer, I made the mistake of getting the Forester .308 reamer from Midway. I think that's for fired brass that hasn't been resized yet.

The end result was that the necks on the newly formed cases were oversize on the inside diameter. Bullets would push in with the touch of a finger and proper neck tension was impossible.

I had some newer commercial ammo available and once I made some once fired cases, I resized and measured the neck wall thickness and neck inside diameter. It looks like you want a .300 reamer to do the job on converted .223/5.56 brass.

Forster offers custom reamers for their case trimmer for around $40. Since I already have the one reamer, I'm just going to have at it with a reamer sharpener and reduce it to the size I need.

Right you are, Kilroy. And I used this trait of the "stock" .308" Forster reamer to my advantage in the ChiCom Type 54 Tokarev-pattern pistol I have. Its chamber neck area is undersized, and bullets that fit its grooves (.311") seated into my reformed but unreamed Win 9Mag cases were an absolute no-go. Knowing the rationale of Forster's reamer regimen, I set aside 100 of the cases for an experiment. These I filled with .308" Hornady 86 grain softpoints and 7.5 grains of AA-7 powder after passage through the RCBS sizing die. No surprises, and the rounds fed and fired through the Tok nicely and yielded fired brass that was reamer-ready. I ran these over the reamer, and neck material was removed.

DRAT that balky %$&# Tokarev......the chamber was still too snug with these reamed-neck cases in combo with .311 bullets. Plotplotplot.....OK, so I'll full-length size 10 of these fired cases, THEN ream them. This WORKED--I ran a similar load (7.5 grains of AA-7) under Lyman #313249 in 92/6/2 alloy @ .311". These fed well and showed sufficient clearance after firing to be safe (about .001" radially). From that day forth, I set aside a lot of brass to ONLY run in the Tokarev with its poetic chamber specs. The CZ-52 is "normal", having a .309" groove diameter and an accomodating chamber that eats everything.

Over time, ammo and brass began to appear in numbers for 7.62 x 25. I haven't tried the PPU ammo or brass; I do have a good amount of Starline brass (first-rate material!) and it runs in the CZ-52 and the C-96/reduced load very well. I also found 200 of the Winchester White Box ammo, and it ran well in both the Tokarev and the CZ-52. I have yet to reload any of this, though it is Boxer-primed. For the present, I have "double-reamed" all of my remaining reformed 9Mag brass to fit the Tokarev's Personality Disorder (fat bullet/narrow chamber neck) and run the Starline in the more compliant pistols. In effect, three lots of ammo......though the CZ will fire the Broomhandle chow deftly. FWIW.

[rbuck351]

My Russian Tok has a 312 barrel but 310 bullets are as big as I can load without neck turning. On a side note, I have a Swag-o-matic that I'm using to make .310 85gr half jacketed SWC bullets using spent 50BMG primer cups for jackets that are shooting pretty good from the Tok and my CZ52.

[Mauser 98K]

one thing that might work best is to full length size the brass without the expander ball so that the outside diameter is exactly what it needs to be and then ream the inside of the brass to the correct size. this should get rid of the problem of the things being too snug for the chamber.. i have done this many of times with cut down 30-06 brass converted to 7.62x51mm. doing it that way there was only one pass through the die and one reaming process..

but im curious being im in the process of doing this for my CZ-52.. did anyone who resized the .223 brass to 7.62x25 brass have to reduce the loads any due to the inside volume of the case being slightly smaller than the factory 7.62x25mm brass?

and b4 i get the "you can buy brass and your wasting your time" i know you can buy starline brass. that is not the point. the point is that i got a ice cream bucket of free .223 brass and i am not set up to buy brass off line as i do not do credit cards.

[Outpost75]

Gosh this near 3-year-old thread is still going?

You guys are gluttons for punishment and frustration.

With good quality Starline brass being readily available, you must not figure your own time being worth more than slave wages to make them out of free 5.56 brass and to undergo the mental masturbation required. Geeeeeesssssch!

[Twmaster]

Gosh this near 3-year-old thread is still going?

You guys are gluttons for punishment and frustration.

With good quality Starline brass being readily available, you must not figure your own time being worth more than slave wages to make them out of free 5.56 brass and to undergo the mental masturbation required. Geeeeeesssssch!

There's always that guy that doesn't get it. :mrgreen:

[Mauser 98K]

well it takes around 2-3 minutes to convert the .223 and i only got to do it once..

and if you want to get into what time is worth.. how much time do you spend casting bullets when you could just go out and buy them? how much time does most people spend on reloading to shoot a dang deer when they could just go out and buy loaded bullets? that is not the point, the point is that i want to and because i can and because it is cheaper than buying starline...

and most people spend more time twirling their thumbs watching things that do not matter on the tv than they would converting the brass..your not getting any returns on the time wasted with watching the TV so that is worse than slave wages.. so speaking of what your time is worth, is it not worth more than spending 8 hours in front of the tv watching a bunch of millionaires play with a ball? i think im using my time more wisely and more productively..

but as i stated on my other post. I am not set up for credit cards and online purchases... and i am not going to buy a bunch of overpriced brass when i got a bucket full of free brass just because someone else thinks im wasting my time.. but i find it funny that people try to discourage people from reforming and resizing brass in the Case Forming / Re-forming section of the forum. that is what this place is dedicated to. it is to help spread information about how to reform and resize brass for other purposes. it is not for discouragement and scolding others for wanting to do what the forum section is all about..

[map55b]

Years ago when you coudn't buy it, I made 30 Mauser (basically the same) out of 9mm Win Mag. Today I'd just buy it: https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/30-Mauser-Brass/

[fivefang]

Starline Brass? load it 2x to Russian factory Velocity & throw it away, & that IS EXPENSIVE, more so than the time to make it out of 5.56 mm, but then maybe Starline has improved the quality recently, a throated Tokarev loaded with lee 90 gr. s.w.c. P.C., over 12.5 gr. WC-820 my choice, Fivefang

[GhostHawk]

I played around with mine until I managed to load a box of 50 that would chamber.

And then I bought 4 boxes of PPU loaded hollow point ammo.

I have the cheap stuff for practice, and I have the good stuff for if I ever needed to shoot something with it.

And with that, for this caliber I am done. There is other stuff that is easier and more fun to work with.

I was using .223 blank ammo, loaded. Cut the folded tip off with a pipe cutter, dump charge, and went from there. Was still a pain, but it is doable. Hardly worth the effort. "If I needed to" I know I could, what I would need to do to make it work. That is what I was after.

[fivefang]

Mau. 98k :I have compared S&B 7.62x 25 volume to altered 5.56 I honestly could not find an difference, but I have not compared it to PPU brass, when reaming I try for .012" case-neck thickness, Fivefang

[Mauser 98K]

i took the old 1950s military stuff and took dimensions of the brass after i run it through the sizer and used that as the template. the neck thickness was about 0.010 and that is what i got on the resized brass. i use the lee 3 die set that does not have an expander ball so that i just run it through, ream the neck to 0.306, trim it with my power trimmer and then load.. takes about 2 minutes to change per piece using the power equipment i got.. pushing a 86gr FMJ with 6.4gr unique using the .7cc dipper. the .5cc dipper that came with the die set would not even function the CZ-52. im pre-cutting the brass to exactly 1inch with tubing cutter and that leaves just a smudge to trim off after resizing..

but i think they turned out pretty good. the old 1950s military cartridge is on the left and the one i just resized is on the right..

208964

[Twmaster]

i took the old 1950s military stuff and took dimensions of the brass after i run it through the sizer and used that as the template. the neck thickness was about 0.010 and that is what i got on the resized brass. i use the lee 3 die set that does not have an expander ball so that i just run it through, ream the neck to 0.306, trim it with my power trimmer and then load.. takes about 2 minutes to change per piece using the power equipment i got.. pushing a 86gr FMJ with 6.4gr unique using the .7cc dipper. the .5cc dipper that came with the die set would not even function the CZ-52. im pre-cutting the brass to exactly 1inch with tubing cutter and that leaves just a smudge to trim off after resizing..

but i think they turned out pretty good. the old 1950s military cartridge is on the left and the one i just resized is on the right..

208964


Looks good! There was a time when I was flat broke. 223 brass was the savior for shooting my CZ52. I've even made brass from 38 special per notes in the Donnelly book.

[MI2600]

The problem with new brass is Tokarevs and C96s often throw brass too far to find.

[GhostHawk]

My Cz-52 is guilty of the same thing. Inside pistol range not as bad, but they were still scattered over at least 6 lanes.

Outside, in grass, gravel, forget it. You find half your lucky.