Mosin moment and lever action satisfaction...

[Finn45]

Alright, I was hunting moose today again with my five year old son. No moose anywhere. So after we finished trying we went and shoot some just for fun. I mentioned earlier that my Redfield 2X EER gave up the ghost and started to throw bullets all around the target. Reticle was misaligned as well, so I sent it to one scope smithy nearby. He took almost 50 Euros from me and supposedly put the scope back in service again. After the hunt we went to check that... I had already BORE SIGHTED the Redfield with my own "this feels pretty much right" method and I was waiting for "on paper" condition from it. I had N120 1,5 grams loads with me, few of 311466 with CCI300 pistol primer (accidentally loaded with pistol version) and some 314299 with the same charge. I selected 311466 as a starters, just because I wanted to save proven 314299 loads for fine tuning... Whatta heck, 311466 produced this without any tuning or adjustment...:
http://pyssymiehet.com/shooting/311466_4s.jpg

Great, that's 19 millimeter c-c, .748" group and no adjustments needed after bore sighting, so after that I didn't have any particular need to do better, just checked that 314299 shot maybe three inches lower than that. I shot one fouler, so it's only four bullet group though. Pretty good for improvised back pack rest on the hood though. Bullet in the pic penetrated through 20+ inches of nearly fresh spruce, hit a rock couple of times and landed there for pick up.

After finishing with m39 I shot some with my moose load and Marlin. This is 1640fps with 425 grainer ww+1,5% tin using n135. Nothing impressive, but we were on the target with scope and also with Williams peep. Good. After sighting I shot two times through a decayed and wet (rotten or how it should be?) birch log and used old and wet, but still firm pine log as a stopper. Better looking boolit penetrated 12 inches rotten birch + 2.5 inches pine; uglier one penetrated 16 inches rotten birch + 1.5 inches pine. Uglier one was shot across the first ones hole, so it started spinning and loosed check and some weight as well. First one produced pretty convincing wound channel as well while going through the rotten birch. Good result for me, no need to spend a night casting better hunting boolit for tomorrow (btdt), hehe...:
http://pyssymiehet.com/shooting/425_impact.jpg

[Frank46]

Finn, what make is the 420gr 45/70 bullet.?. Definitely would do a job on any moose thereabouts. Frank

[Finn45]

My own make from my first MountainMolds mold. It's been shooting accurately with lino+ww bhn15 and up, not so good with this ww+tin mix, but way better than is needed for moose. I've killed two calves with harder bhn15 mix past two years and now it's turn for the softer mix. This is between bhn9-10. Would like to hit a bull with this, but those are not so numerous here right now. No sign of a moose for two weeks now. Let there be snow... hard to believe myself saying that.

[Buckshot]

..............Finn, those 45 cal slugs are sure some "Thumpworthy" looking projectiles. I'll bet they hurt when they hit :D! You took your 5 year old son along with you? That's great. Did he carry the canteen? What did he get to do to be part of the expedition? I'm sure we'd all like to see a picture of him.

...............Buckshot

[Finn45]

Here we go. Today it happened, killed cow moose after two empty weekends of trying. Saturday went more or less to waste, it was raining and we took only one draw and quit. Sunday started nicely, no rain and there was some hope that at least one loner was around. We need to take at least one cow, so everybody agreed that lonely cow is on the list along with bull and two calves. After the first heat we received a message that single cow without calves was on the move with our dogs and that she was acting like it would not walk in the freezer spontaneously. We changed our watch spots two times and we were pretty much bored in this spot as well, damn it's not coming... but then it happened; young lonely cow appeared. She came so quiet that I noticed her when she was coming only twenty yards away, dogs were few minutes behind, no barking. Some branches and brushwood was on the way so I just whispered to my son to quit babbling; "there's moose coming so be quiet"... Cow was right then maybe six...eight yards away going to step on the small road where we were watching. Even only 2X scout scope was not perfect for this, irons would have been way better this time, but after one lift I pulled the trigger and was confident of the good hit. Cow took back steps and jogged maybe twenty yards and started to take a breath. I aimed again but didn't shoot, she's finishing right there... but no, cow took long few leaps and disappeared to the brushes. I ran after her and shot once aiming low behind the front leg., cow fell down blowing deep but keeping her head still up. One finisher to the back of the head and that was it, thirty yards from the first shot. Second shot was totally unnecessary, but couldn't help it after fresh looking leaps. Fortunately it hit low and there was no additional meat loss. First shot was pretty good one behind the shoulder busting only lungs and ribs. Good looking wound through the lungs, lots of lung tissue was flowing from the chest cavity while gutting the critter. I found only one small piece of the bullet from the outgoing wound, rest of it kept going to the bushes. Boolit was MM.459-425gc from WW+1.5%tin and air cooled, bhn9...10, MV 1600+fps. Cow was a young one having surprisingly almost no tallow at all meaning good eating for a cow. Rest of our bunch was pretty happy and everybody hoped that this means better luck for us in the near future. Well, afternoon another loner fooled us perfectly and we went home thinking of next weekend and planning more brilliant wiles for the rest of them... My son was pretty much excited, he was shouting "way to go dad" when cow was still on the run, hehe. Son was only arm length away on the back left when I shot first time, so he got pretty good picture of the whole event.

http://pyssymiehet.com/smthngls/cow_boy.jpg

[Maineboy]

Finn, nice story and nice picture of your son. He looks like he'll be a hunter for sure! How old will he have to be before he can go after his own moose?

[Blackwater]

Finn, thanks for the story and pics. Mighty good lookin' young fella, there, and it's GOOD to see him hunting. Way to go TWO times from here!

[Jumptrap]

What you all don't know is I'm going over with my 5 year old to hunt with Reijo next year...ain't I Reijo...........Reijo..... you there? Where'd he go?

HAR!

That is one fine looking boy, he must have a beautiful mother..hehehe!

Great job all around, congrats!

[Buckshot]

..............Finn, I enjoyed reading the story very much, and I'm sure glad you included your son in the photo! I liked this part, as I could see it in my mind:

"Some branches and brushwood was on the way so I just whispered to my son to quit babbling; "there's moose coming so be quiet"... "

First time I took my daughter deer hunting (she was 13) it was impossible for her to sit still. At that age you can't just sit and enjoy the breeze through he pine needles and let your mind wander. She had the impression deer hunting was some kind of marathon, and whoever covered the most square miles was the winner.

A fine active looking young man you have there.

...............Buckshot

[Finn45]

Thanks :) . There's no age limit for hunting in general. Everybody who hunts with a firearm needs to pass hunting exam (once in the beginning), read stuff and complete a test where's pics, questions and such. Passing the test provides hunting card with annual payment to the government. Payment includes insurance for personal damages caused by firearms. This hunting examination system has been obligatory since 1964. I did mine at 13, but there's many kids way less than 10 who has passed. It's possible to get firearms license at age of 15 with permission from parents, so basically one can go hunting all by him/herself at 15. It's also possible to hunt and use firearms under adult guidance (firearm license holder), so only hunting test and paid card is really necessary. There's stories about something like 10-11 years old succeeded moose hunters every year not to mention small game hunting.

Yeah, the babbling part, cross-cutting sticks and such are trying my patience, but that's how it should be. Quality time.

Mark, I thought you were coming this year. It's getting cold and snowy soon, so bring your Nikes and that thing what you were wearing on the top of them ;) .

[Rick4570]

Finn, congratulations, nice moose and good looking youngster! Seeing your photo with the elkhound in the background brought back some pleasant memories for me. My wife and I aquired an elkhound a few months before we were married, some 25 years ago. He was one fine dog, had him for about five years, then he mysteriously disappeared. We were living in the sticks at that time, and I believe that someone either took him(unlikely) or shot him. T
Regards, Rick

[rvpilot76]

Finn, what's the specs on that bullet? I have a Marlin 1895 Cowboy and I like the looks of that bullet. I have designed a bore-rider with a .150 first band to contact the rifling, but I would rather not have any bands outside the case. What size meplat is on that monster?

Kevin

[Finn45]

Thanks again. Wolves are eating dogs around here, EU is making this corner of the Scandinavia to be one big wolf and bear zoo I think. Bullet is 3+ years old design and based on my thoughts of short barrel, longer than standard coal and maximized powder space. It has tapering front band in order to avoid too aggressive rifling contact and ogival nose starts from .452" dia. Nose is .5" long, lube grooves quite small and meplat is 80% making it to be around .366". Since my short experience with killing moose with this bullet have taught me that 1900fps (I'm shooting from 16.5" barrel) using nearly nonexpanding alloy is not so very necessary (could be actually otherwise), I'm leaning towards the fact that maximizing powder space is not necessary at all. Thinking of ignition and powder consumption in .45-70 it would be better with deeper seating. If I decide to get new mold in this weight range, I would make it with .45" nose length, bigger lube grooves, standard ogival nose to 75% meplat without separate front band. That is if I could make certain that ogival nose with 75% meplat won't interfere with rifling. On a different day I might choose .15" front band and ogival nose starting from .452". This shoots very well with harder alloy and I think about 400 grains and little above might be just about ideal for Marlin. Of course it's invented already; RCBS405, but then again... Purely for hunting I might take heavier one although it might not be necessary. About the rifling contact I can only say that it might cause surprise when you actually try them, btdt. Calibration affects this also, bigger dia - earlier contact. No big deal with target mold, but for field use there should be some clearance to make chambering completely reliable imo.

[Bass Ackward]

Thinking of ignition and powder consumption in .45-70 it would be better with deeper seating.


Reijo,

Isn't it interesting how your thought process changes as you go along?

[shooter2]

Finn. Great story. Thanks for sharing with us. Good lookiing young boy too. You're raising him right.

If that mould has a number or you can share the specs I'd appreciate it. I think it would do well in my marlin. Everything else does.

[Finn45]

That's the way it is John. Reading all about hardcasts with big meplats and maximum velocity put me in to thinking that it's the only way. After two calves running even past 200 yards with perfect lung shots and nearly baseball sized wound caused by 1860fps hardcast, I've decided otherwise. Nothing wrong with those kills, very dead critters, but it's obvious that impact is not very strong although it makes big wound. Somebody might use the term zip through. And when loading for lower speed it's obvious that long coal is disadvantage. OK, making decisions according to few kills and critter behavior after those hits might be meaningless, but I still think it's better to follow these experiences than just read it form the books trying to duplicate something which is probably strongly colored by marketing something special to the people who'll buy it all without thinking at all by themselves.

Shooter2, I checked the spec sheet and front band tapers to.450", not .452" as I wrote earlier. Other specs are; 0.459, 420 gr ww, 4 bands 0.0551" long, 0.988" oal, 0.100" check shank, 0.500" nose, 0.459x0.450"x0.150" front band, 80% metplat. This won't cycle through standard Marlin.

[waksupi]

Finn, if you had baseball size wounds, I can see nothing wrong with the bullet performance. It just takes something as hardy as a moose a bit of time for things to shut down. We've seen the same thing here. People using the biggest newest whammerjammer magnums, shooting a buffalo to ribbons. They just weren't allowing it the time for the bullet to do it's job.

[Finn45]

Yeah, and I exaggerate that wound size only tiny bit, it really was large. Dog guide of my bunch (very experienced young fellow) said he has never seen that long escape run with such big wound and clear blood loss. Me thinks that less impact power means less weakening effect and longer run. Instant blood loss does not kill a critter instantaneously, but surely although a bit slowly. No problem with that, but no problem with somewhat expanding bullet, especially when these seem to penetrate still very well. Whammerjammer magnums? Do you mean that some folks think that animal should fall instantaneously almost no matter of the shot placement without thinking that it really takes time to actually die? Well, most people here seem to think that way. Perfect lung-heart shot is not perfect for them if critter goes past maybe twenty yards! They want .338 LapuaMagnum because 9.3x62 is not doing it right and so on...

[rvpilot76]

Me thinks that less impact power means less weakening effect and longer run. Whammerjammer magnums? Do you mean that some folks think that animal should fall instantaneously almost no matter of the shot placement without thinking that it really takes time to actually die? Well, most people here seem to think that way. Perfect lung-heart shot is not perfect for them if critter goes past maybe twenty yards! They want .338 LapuaMagnum because 9.3x62 is not doing it right and so on...

I agree with you about it taking animals a little while to die. I shot my 5x5 muley last year at 300 yards with a 250 grain boattail from a .375H&H and he ran over 100 yards before expiring from a double lung shot. Tough little buggers. About the only animal that doesn't get up and run away is a prarie dog hit with a fast-moving varmint bullet within 200 yards. Complete vaporization!

Kevin

[waksupi]

A lot of other boards, the youngsters figure if an animal doesn't fall in it's tracks, there is something wrong with the rifle, or bullet. Nope, it's just a critter trying to shut down.

[The Nyack Kid]

I have always been under the imprestion that wide nose hard cast was for deep penetration . namely reliable proformance when hitting the shoulder or with other shots .

[Finn45]

Yep. Additionally I like hitting behind the shoulder without breaking the shoulder and big bones. Much cleaner meat and easier to cut up in the freezer, but I think it adds up the time needed for finishing. Good and clean meat has never been a problem with these bullets; hole is big and wide but it's just a hole, no bubbling blood scum all over. Besides, I noticed with my first cb kill, that there is no need for blood hound, anybody can follow that path of clear blood.

[Pioneer2]

I made the mistake of letting my 14 +16 year old sons use my Rem700 classic in .250 Sav for deer hunting this fall and can't get it back! Two mulie does and a WT doe were bang flops.................Harold * waiting on my new /used Husqvarna FN 98 9.3x62 to arrive

[Frank46]

Is the dog a norwegian elk hound??. Had one like that when I was considerably younger,way way younger. That dog should have been on America's Funniest Video's. When he farted it whistled and the smell would have made a funeral turn a corner. Frank

[Fish_N_Russ]

dog farts are the worst

[Ricochet]

I used to have a white German Shepherd that was a major source of natural gas. Once my father in law was visiting, stretched out in my recliner watching TV. The dog was stretched out on the floor beside him. A loud whoosh came from the posterior of the dog. It woke him up, and he jerked his head up, looking around to see where the noise came from! My father in law instantly got up out of the recliner and said "I'm going to bed."
:lol:

[mag_01]

Interesting post Finn45 --- Well done



Tom

[Dan Cash]

Yeah, and I exaggerate that wound size only tiny bit, it really was large. Dog guide of my bunch (very experienced young fellow) said he has never seen that long escape run with such big wound and clear blood loss. Me thinks that less impact power means less weakening effect and longer run. Instant blood loss does not kill a critter instantaneously, but surely although a bit slowly. No problem with that, but no problem with somewhat expanding bullet, especially when these seem to penetrate still very well. Whammerjammer magnums? Do you mean that some folks think that animal should fall instantaneously almost no matter of the shot placement without thinking that it really takes time to actually die? Well, most people here seem to think that way. Perfect lung-heart shot is not perfect for them if critter goes past maybe twenty yards! They want .338 LapuaMagnum because 9.3x62 is not doing it right and so on...

About the only way to have the animal drop in its tracks is to break the sppine of pop the brain. I have never shot a moose but classic shots to the heart and/or lungs on white tail deer and elk result in some very long escape runs. A neck shot that damages the spine on elk makes them droop like a rock.