PDA

View Full Version : Primers



Blackwater
07-25-2015, 05:04 PM
I don't recall this being discussed much in recent memory, though my CRS disease MAY cause error in that. But I want to talk about primers. Have any of you found loads where the primer made a noticable difference in a load's performance, when you change nothing but the primer? A buddy found CCI LP primers really turned a mild load of Red Dot in his .45 LC into a real tack driver, where his usual WLP's did just average as to accuracy. It turned his gun into a sub 1" shooter for 6 shots at 25 yds., where the best he could do with WLP's were about 1.5". He was shooting literal clover leafs for the 1st. 3, and fatigue got to him for the rest of a string. We're both getting older, and that's just part of the regimen these days.

I've long tended, from early experience, to use WLR's in '06 length cases and CCI 200's in .308 length cases, and it's worked out pretty well. I haven't done any primer experiments in quite a while now, and am curious what you guys have found with currently mfg'd primers, and whether and how many of you have done simple primer experiments in the past 3-5 years or so, and what your results were with what powders, calibers and bullets.

I once read that priming compounds are proprietary and secret, and that some have micro dust metallics in them to shoot red hot coals of burning hot metal into the powder, thus ensuring better ignition under some conditions, and others rely exclusively on gas and whatever ash can't be eliminated to do the job, but even that article didn't say which was which. Does anyone know more about priming mixes any of the mfg's use? It hasn't been very common, but back when I was doing a LOT of shooting, I'd experiment with primers, and frequently found small differences in accuracy with a simple primer change while keeping all else the same, but it wasn't usually a great difference, but on odd occasions it was enough to make me prefer one brand over another. What have you guys done, with what calibers, bullets and powders, and what have you found?

Outpost75
07-25-2015, 06:41 PM
In serious competitive shooting it might make a difference.

Tenbender
07-25-2015, 06:41 PM
I'm not a CCI fan. To many misfires. I switched from Remington primers to Federal and all my rifles shot better groups. In a handgun it didn't seem to matter much. Federal or Winchester primer's has never misfired on me. CCI and Remington do it all the time.

Scharfschuetze
07-25-2015, 06:59 PM
I have noted the phenomenon more than a few times when testing match loads for long range shooting as well as mild cast boolit loads. Standard deviations, extreme spreads in velocity and accuracy have all been impacted by changes in primers.

For that reason, once I settle on a good load, it always gets the same brand primer whenever I reload it again.

Best primers? Hard to say, but I'll put my money on Federal 210 Match primers for National Match and long range shooting over any other primer in the 308 and 30/06. For black powder rifle shooting out of my Trapdoors my records show that the Federal 215 Magnum primer is preferred. CCIs have always done well for me for most of my hand gun and general rifle loads, although for match shooting with the 38 Special in PPC competition the best primer in my revolvers was always the Remington 1 1/2 small pistol primer. For ball powder in high velocity loads it's often hard to beat Winchester primers in either rifles or magnum revolvers.

Some of the last corrosive (might have been mercuric) primers used in US military ammo was for Lake City 7.62 NATO long range ammo for the M14 National Match rifle and similarly chambered bolt rifles. The reason? Better accuracy at long range than the non-corrosive primer used by Lake City Army Ammunition Plant at the time.

What's most amazing to me though is that in shooting and reloading from the mid 60s to now is the small number of misfires traced to US made primers. Only a couple in issue ammo from the military or the police department and only a few from reloading over 45 years. I think that I can count the number on one hand.

Age and storage will eventually take its toll on primers. Old surplus ammo is notorious for hang fires and miss-fires, but for this thread I consider that outside of the discussion. I think that shelf life might be a bit longer on corrosively primed ammo and thus the Warsaw Pact's hesitancy to switch to non-corrosive priming.

shooter93
07-25-2015, 07:46 PM
It can at times make a difference but that being said I like to use one brand of primer.....possibly two.....and I have always been able to find a good shooting load using them by changing powders or charge weight etc.

JWT
07-25-2015, 07:53 PM
I'm with shooter93. I have used CCI for everything except my 30-06 match witch gets Federal Match primers. I vary the powder and charge to tune in results.

wistlepig1
07-25-2015, 08:25 PM
I am not sure if this what you want but in 22 Hornet I have been using Sp primer rather than Sr for years with good results with LiLGun. I have noted with those changes my case life is much longer, I think that is more to powder than primers. When comparing Standard Dev. of the old load [2400 & Sr] and [Lil & Sp], the new load is better for the cases and accuracy is better to.

As for brands, I only have one gun that I have noted brand made much Diff

TXGunNut
07-25-2015, 09:27 PM
I like Federal Match primers for most my rifle loads but am running a bit low on them and haven't seen them on the shelf for awhile. They perform better for me than my longtime standard, RP. For some reason my 35 Whelen loads seem to prefer my old standby RP primers over the Federal Match but only by a small margin.

runfiverun
07-25-2015, 09:33 PM
I have noticed some trends over the years.
CCi lp primers seem to do their best in straight walled pistol cases with powders such as unique/herco and the faster flake types.
fed Lr primers and rem-91/2's seem to work best for me with the stick type powders in the medium slow burn range. [4064/rl-19/4831]
win lp,and lr do their best with ball type powders or in higher volume powder situations but not the case packed full type powders.
win LR in the 30-06/308/8 mauser with aa-1680 or 2400.[for example] or with 3031/4895 and a jacketed bullet.

rem SP primers are great in the smaller cases like 9mm and the 38 special.

Federal primers seem to be more accurate for me in the rifles/revolvers that can show the difference with the powders they do their best with.
H-110 in the 44 mag
Rl-19 in the 25-06
rl-19 in the 257 Roberts.

now to sr primers,,, these have been a conundrum to me.
sometimes a mag type primers works best. [and in tiny little cases like the 25-20 and 30 carbine]
WOLF brand has out shot BR primers in the target rifles.
cci's have stunk up the joint in one rifle but is the next ones favorite, [using the same load and batch of powder and primers] shrug

tazman
07-25-2015, 09:43 PM
The only time I have found this to matter so far is with a specific powder loaded in my 9mm.
I was using both/either CCI or Winchester primers and getting decent, identical results when using Winchester Super Handicap powder and a 135 grain boolit. During a primer shortage I got some Remington small pistol magnum primers when I ran out of the others. I used the same powder charge and boolit, changing only the primer and my groups suddenly tightened by 50%. This effect was immediate and reproducible over several trips to the range and continues to this day.

Frank46
07-26-2015, 12:04 AM
Normally I use winchester large rifle primers in most of my rifle cartridges. However for years in all of my '06 chambered hunting and target rifles I've used the CCI large rifle magnum primer with IMR 4350. Accuracy was all I could wish for. When I got a chronograph some years back I ran some of my loads through it. And found that compared to standard primers the standard deviation and velocity numbers were more consistent with the magnum primer. I have had 3 pre '64 match rifles over the years and I used the same load in all of them plus a pre '64 win 70 standard and my sako 75 hunter. When I sold the 'pre 64's I included the load data with them. I had one guy rave about the accuracy in the standard rifle. The sako will shoot this load into 1 1/4" easily and also loves the old M72 match ammunition as well. Funny thing is the sako will shoot the 4350 and the M72 almost to the same point of impact. Frank

Jackpine
07-26-2015, 12:20 AM
Back in the very late 70's and early 80's handgun metallic silhouette was new and I had little experience with rifle calibers in short barrels, I did a lot of load experimentation shooting for group and chronographing loads. I remember several instances where changing nothing but primers shrunk groups from 3 inches to one inch and had a surprising impact on velocities. I have never found the kind of variation with rifle barrel lengths, as I found with the 14 inch barrels on contenders and XPs back then.

Jackpine

Mauser48
07-26-2015, 12:30 AM
I have always used winchesters. Never a misfire. I did have to use cci's once because the winchesters were blowing out and the cci's worked fine. They are a little larger than winchesters. I will still stick with my winchesters. No numbers like 7-1/2 or cci 200 or anything just small and large magnum and non magnum.

sthwestvictoria
07-26-2015, 05:31 AM
I use CCI 200 LR for 30-30 and 35 whelen, never had a misfire.
I have also just started using large pistol primers in the 30-30 and 35 whelen for very light loads (ie 7.0 grains trail boss). This came about after reading a thread here about using LP primers for pistol pressure loads and being gifted some LP.

I don't swap between primer types mainly due to availability being limited here in Australia. I buy up the CCI when I see them!

Czech_too
07-26-2015, 06:20 AM
The only cartridge that I have tried switching primers in would be the .22 Hornet.
I developed a load using W-W primers, ran out of them so went with CCI, the only ones available at the time. Accuracy was not the same, so when I found some more of the W-W I went back to using them and the accuracy returned.

Tatume
07-26-2015, 06:59 AM
As a relative newcomer to this list, I'm not as experienced as some of the old-timers. But I will say, it usually takes a very good shooter using a very accurate rifle to see an actual difference in accuracy.

Blackwater
07-26-2015, 07:44 AM
The biggest trends I've noticed through the years, was that WLR's seemed to work best with ball powders and most slow burners in rifles, which really kind'a makes sense since Win. also mfg's ball powders, which often tend to do better with a slightly hotter primer. Thus, their use in '06 length cases seems to, overall at least, give better ignition and therefore better accuracy, but again, testing the rifle and loads is the only way to know for sure, and there ARE exceptions to ALL "general rules." Rifles are individuals, just like people are, and you never really know 'till you try them.

In pistols, I've shot an awful lot of .44 mags with 2400, and the CCI LP has almost uniformly given me the best accuracy. Why? I don't know. Just has, and that's in several guns across the board.

In .45 ACP I've found less variation with Unique and 231, and not enough to matter for any but the most exacting uses.

Trends are just that - trends - and NOT "laws," and the only way to know what'll do best is to just try it and check on target and chrono. I haven't done a lot of primer comparisons in a lot of years and I know mfg. changes through the years can make a difference, and thought it might be interesting to see if there's been a general trend, but apparently, there's not much of one, if I can detect any at all.

This is a subject that always generates varied answers, and it's always been interesting. If anyone here can figure it all out, they're smarter than I am for SURE! I have some sense, though, that particular powders shot at particular pressure levels in particular guns really DO often have preferences for specific primers, which can be important in say, loading .38 HBWC's, or any other precision loads. With all the variables involved, it's really no wonder that answers prove so variable, especially wiht each shooter aiming at different parameters for the loads we shoot. Still, though, it's always interested me, and current results are probably our best indicator for trends. The component shortages may make such issues rather moot, though, I'm afraid, and that's the X-factor we're all dealing with now.

44man
07-26-2015, 08:31 AM
Every single gun I have gets primers tested and I have tested for 36 years.
.44 mag and .45 Colt gets Fed 150's, both use 296 only. mag primers will triple groups.
Even the .475 and .500 JRH have been tested with standard but are more accurate with Fed 155.
The .45 ACP revolver is FAR more accurate with SP primers.
There is a case capacity problem with primers with too much force. They will move a boolit before ignition. All my IHMSA wins were shot with the .44, 296 powder and Fed 150's. The .454 sucks with ANY SR primer but is a dream with LP mag primers. Fed 155 works like a charm well past 50,000 PSI. Cut .460 brass and see what a .454 can do.
My 45-70 BFR uses a Fed 155 and some loads in my 30-30 Marlin benefit from that primer.
Case size in a rifle will need tested and most use a standard LR but as brass gets larger, a mag is needed.
I have found no correlation between powders and could never work a charge to make the wrong primer work.
From what I have seen it is case size that determines the primer.
.44 is too small for a mag. It is really true that if you bring your .44 to shoot, I can tell you what primer you use.

ga41
07-26-2015, 08:51 AM
Almost always use Fed 150 in all pistol cases from 44 mag through 45 Colt using all powder types and loads. Always accurate and goes bang every time. Rifle cases, as long as I am not using a difficult to ignite powder and even then sometimes, Federal primers again. I do tend to use Winchester with difficult to ignite powders. I have a supply of different brands for 5.56 and other SR uses

lightman
07-26-2015, 09:10 AM
I've always used CCI in most everything that I load. Everything shoots well and have never had a misfire. The exceptions are F210 Match for my long range match rifle and Remingtom BR in my 223 varmint rifle. Over the years I have bought and tried others, mostly because of being caught short during a democratic election year. I try to not let that happen! I've used Win, Federal and a few lesser known brands but have had fewer issues with seating and performance with CCI than any of the others. I have had a couple of misfires with other brands and I once caught a primer that had no compound or anvil, but I don't remember the brand, but was not CCI. Two misfires with all the primers that I have seated is a really good track record, regardless of the brand. Says a lot for the manufacturing process and QC!

44man
07-26-2015, 09:15 AM
I have subbed CCI when I had to with no problems. 300's for 150's.
When I first started loading I used all CCI, Darn good products.

bangerjim
07-26-2015, 09:52 AM
I use anything that is on sale locally.

TXGunNut
07-26-2015, 10:25 AM
For pistol primers I decided on WW primers years ago. The SP's were sensitive and accurate enough for PPC shooting @ out to 50 yards and the LP's work plenty well in 45 acp and 45 Colt. Seem to work just fine w/ BP as well. Here lately I've even caught them on sale!

ukrifleman
07-26-2015, 02:10 PM
I worked up some loads for my recently acquired 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser

I used the same powder, brass and bullets, but I loaded test batches with either CCI 200 L/R or S&B L/R primers.

I chrono'd the loads and found that the CCI primers gave consistently higher velocities across the loads, while the S&B primed loads were the most accurate with the smallest extreme spread.

So it seems, that primers do make a difference.

ukrifleman.

Digital Dan
07-26-2015, 08:18 PM
As a relative newcomer to this list, I'm not as experienced as some of the old-timers. But I will say, it usually takes a very good shooter using a very accurate rifle to see an actual difference in accuracy.

Might depend on how you define "good" and "very accurate". I see a difference without too much trouble in nearly all loads with the same charge. Also shoot over a chronograph quite a bit and it usually is a harbinger of things to come, though sometimes the results are counter-intuitive. An example that comes to mind was a Shilen DGA-M .338 Win Mag. Same charge/case/powder/bullet, different primer. The Fed 215 was showing an ES of ~5 for 10 shots, printed a 2" group at 100 yards. With the Federal 210 it went sub MOA with an ES in the mid teens.

In the broad scope of affairs, I find that most guns and cartridges will tell you what to load with if you give them a chance to do so. Primers matter.

captaint
07-27-2015, 10:06 AM
I used to only keep a couple of brands/types of primers on hand. But, with all the availability madness a while back, I got to buying whatever I could get reasonable, cost wise. I bought some TULA LP primes and found them to be very good. On one particular load, I changed ONLY the brand of primer and happened to have the chrono set up that day. Was shooting just the 45ACP. With one specific load, both the SD and the ES were lower with the TULA's. I think the groups were better also. Go figger. I do like that they fit a little tighter in the pockets also. I like them tight....

Tenbender
07-27-2015, 09:37 PM
As a relative newcomer to this list, I'm not as experienced as some of the old-timers. But I will say, it usually takes a very good shooter using a very accurate rifle to see an actual difference in accuracy.
Not really. I think anyone can tell the difference even in a deer rifle. Years ago I bought whatever was on the shelf. Later on I got to shooting varmint rifles . I got to working on loads because some shots were 4 to 500 yards. That is where I found the Federal primers made the shots more consistent . A half inch at 100 yrd's is no big deal. That same half inch at 400 yrd's turns out to be 6 inches or more. Burned a lot of powder before I figured that out.

kfarm
07-27-2015, 10:08 PM
Just started working up a load for my Savage FP110 in 308. These 3 targets are loaded the same 41.5 IMR 4895, neck turned full sized once fired mil brass with Nosler 168 custom competition. The only difference is the primer. Tula, CCI and Winchester. As you see the tula was the best.

S.B.
07-27-2015, 10:50 PM
I'm not a CCI fan. To many misfires. I switched from Remington primers to Federal and all my rifles shot better groups. In a handgun it didn't seem to matter much. Federal or Winchester primer's has never misfired on me. CCI and Remington do it all the time.

I've never had a misfire in 40 years of handloading with CCI primers?
Steve

Spawn-Inc
07-28-2015, 12:58 AM
not sure how much this will add to the discussion but small test i did a while ago may shed some light on the "hotness" of primers mentioned here accept for winchester brand. they are small pistol primers.

setup/testing is as follows;

smith and wesson 586 6"
4 (same 4 cases) 38spl cases that have had the primer holes enlarged. i used the same 4 for each brand of primer
lighting was the same for every picture.

Dominion
http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo304/Spawn-Inc/Dominion_zps406d04cb.jpg

Federal
http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo304/Spawn-Inc/Fed_zps0b501500.jpg

S&B
http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo304/Spawn-Inc/SampB_zpsec8c8e7d.jpg

CCI
http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo304/Spawn-Inc/CCI_zpsc5b833f2.jpg

Mytmousemalibu
07-28-2015, 01:30 AM
I have a really interesting set of pages I read/saved on primers not too long ago in respect to accuracy for BR competition. With recent data plus historical data, it appears the best accuracy is often achieved using a primer of the softest brisance that will reliably ignite a given charge of powder. The above few comments state the likes of Wolf & S&B promoting better accuracy and both were known to be a softer firing primer. I would like to make some kind of handy dandy primer testing rig at some point to toy with all this and load ammo accordingly.

Blackwater
07-28-2015, 10:07 AM
Spawn, that's some very impressive and graphic photos. Thanks. It's stuff like that that is really helpful.

destrux
07-29-2015, 01:02 AM
The only time I noticed a primer change doing anything was when I switched to Wolf small rifle magnum primers for .223 loads during 2012. They were very weak primers and wouldn't light ball powder very well if at all. I had a small batch of reloads using H335 that had an awful hangfire/misfire rate... something like half were bad. They worked great with all the extruded powder I used them with though, and they were very accurate loads I developed with them (3/4" average 100m groups using LC brass, Sierra 3190 bullets, and IMR 4320 powder in a factory stock Doublestar CAR-15 1-9 twist and a Japanese Tasco 4X scope).

Otherwise I've never paid much attention to the primer other than to be sure I'm using the correct one for the application. I only am selective about sticking with the primer I developed a load with if the load is on the hot side. I have never seen a midrange load develop excessive pressure just from changing primer brands, and I've skipped around on brands quite a bit through the past few years.

Tenbender
07-29-2015, 10:59 PM
I might of been a little hasty on the CCI's Could of just got a damaged or just a bad lot. That was years ago and I just didn't buy anymore. Started using Federal and never looked back. Now I stay stocked so a shortage won't hurt me. Probably have 25 - 30 thousand small and large pistol and rifle. I think I still have 500 or so Bench rest CCI large rifle. Might burn them up in my 30 30.

tygar
07-30-2015, 06:32 PM
I definately use certain primers for specific loads. Rem SR match for comp .223 stuff. CCI for AR/MIA/MI & CCI match where slam fire is a possibility. Fed 210M & 215M for all match, BR, F, Tac, & hunting rifles. FED Standard & Fed match in revolvers, CCI in autos (usually). Also, sometimes use Rem LR, SR, SR match in some rifles.

Mauser48
08-02-2015, 11:39 PM
Ok I had my first missfire the other day! It was in 38 special with a winchester small pistol primer. I tried striking it about 3 times and it never fired. In its drfense I might have dropped the primer and the anvil or somehing could have came out without me knowing it. It also could have been a plugged flash hole or something.

Zaneiel
08-03-2015, 12:40 AM
I never paid much attention to the type of primer i have used CCI and Winchester though I shall keep my eyes out for differences :)

FISH4BUGS
08-03-2015, 07:19 AM
My guns shoot better than I can so I really don't care what kind of primers I use. When it comes to shooting machine guns, as long as they go bang and they are the cheapest at the time, i really don't care. I DO use only Winchester Ball Powders however.
Typically I buy Winchester primers because Powder Valley sells them in 5000 lots. Last batch I bought was 10,000 SR and 10,000 SP. I have yet to find one that has not gone bang.
Someday when I start running low again i might try the Wolf brand.

Blackwater
08-03-2015, 11:03 AM
This has been an interesting thread to me. Lots of varied results, and some really haven't even really tried varying primers to see if it makes a difference. All my shooting life, I've sought accuracy above all else in my loads, and I've frequently tried varying only the primer after I worked up a good load, and sometimes it has made a difference that was noticable (1/8" or more at 100) and sometimes not, but you never really know until you try them and see. With availability getting better now, it's at least a bit easier to actually HAVE different primers to test, and that's a new factor these days that kind'a determines what we CAN try, of course.

In .44 mag. I learned long ago that with 2400, std. primers seemed to give the best results for me in my guns and loads, always with a good, firm crimp. In rifles, I've tended to have more significant differences with ball powders, as a class, than with extruded types, but have had significant differences with both types, too, so this has always been a bit of a thorn in my side in trying to find my "ultimate load" for any given gun.

In the field, there's really no substitute for knowing you can, if your hold is good, hit a deer in the eye at whatever range you're shooting. Sure eliminates the jitters that are often caused by wondering if you can actually HIT the deer! Once I get a load worked up, the last thing I do is try 5 shot groups with various primers. It takes 5 shots to KNOW for pretty sure if the difference is significant or not, across the board. Usually only takes about 20 rds. to test the differing primers, and sometimes it really DOES make a significant difference. The only way to know is to try 'em, and I usually have at least small amounts of all manner of primers to do this type of testing with, and whenever I get a chance to get even a 100 ct. box of something I don't have, I take it. One day I just know I'm going to pick up a 100 box and then find I can't GET those primers any more! Murphy's Law is always working, it seems.

Frank V
08-03-2015, 11:12 AM
Spawn thanks those are great pictures & give a good idea of how much difference there is between primers.

I've always been a "well we need some" kind of fellow. I do have preferences, I really like the Rem 2-1/2 large pistol primer, & the Fed large pistol primers. I also like the Rem 6-1/2 small rifle primer, & WLR primers, but have used Fed & CCI, & Remington pretty regularly too.
I have a good friend who works up his most accurate load then switches primers to see if there is any improvement.
I wouldn't do this with loads near Max. though!

higgins
08-03-2015, 08:38 PM
Some lots of Winchester WLR primers have been exhibiting pinhole leaks at the edge of the primer where the primer cup curves into the primer pocket. It happened to me a few weeks ago, and a Google search of "defective Winchester primer" turned up many occurrences. After standardizing loads with WLRs for about 25 years, I've switched to CCI 200 primers. Winchester is buying back 500 primers from lot DDL670G; I had fired about 500 out of the same carton before this happened to me.

I bought the defective primers at retail in May 2011. Surely Winchester has fixed this by now. If you use Winchester WLRs, it might be a good idea to buy current production from a reputable retailer, and avoid the secondary market if possible. This doesn't sound like a big deal, but it may leave a small hole burned in the bolt face. If the leak is bad enough you may get some gas in the face.

Frank V
08-04-2015, 08:52 PM
I hate to hear that higgins, but thanks for sharing. I use a lot of WLRPs & so far have had great results with them.

44man
08-05-2015, 08:36 AM
Long ago Fed had the pin hole problem too. It was traced to a cleaner that corroded the cup at the bend.

michiganmike
08-07-2015, 09:54 PM
I'm not a CCI fan. To many misfires. I switched from Remington primers to Federal and all my rifles shot better groups. In a handgun it didn't seem to matter much. Federal or Winchester primer's has never misfired on me. CCI and Remington do it all the time.

I had misfire problems with the last box of 1,000 CCI primers I purchased. This with both small pistol and Large Rifle. When I used those up I switched to Federal. Not one misfire. It may have been just a bad batch of CCI. But I am content with the Federal primers.

Beef15
08-07-2015, 10:21 PM
In my precision rifle I've seen primer only changes of around 1/4-3/8 MOA. It is the last thing I test, in hopes of finding a good alternate.

David2011
08-08-2015, 12:06 AM
I'm not a CCI fan. To many misfires. I switched from Remington primers to Federal and all my rifles shot better groups. In a handgun it didn't seem to matter much. Federal or Winchester primer's has never misfired on me. CCI and Remington do it all the time.

The only misfires I've ever had on centerfire ammunition was when I had an excessively light main (hammer) spring in my Colt Trooper Mk III. IF I didn't use Federal primers ignition was unreliable. I replaced the spring with a slightly heavier one from Wolff and haven't had another misfire. It was 100% my doing that caused the misfires. CCI primers do have a reputation for being less sensitive than others so everything has to be up to snuff for them to work 100%.

IMO marginal loads- either by powder selection (harder to ignite) or by creating light loads seem to be more sensitive to primer selection.

David

303Guy
08-08-2015, 04:31 AM
I use Federal in my hornet because of its light firing pin strike. I've only once come across one defective Federal primer (which I didn't fire). The anvil is sitting sideways. I've kept it - perhaps one day it will have some collectors value. 8-) It's a curiosity to me.

Hardcast416taylor
08-08-2015, 10:12 AM
Back when I was developing loads for my brothers and mine 7mm Rem. Mag. rifles I did the sorting process of the variables. When the topic was primers I finally found that there was a `day & night` difference when I tried Federal LR mag. primers, for the better. The groups shot went from very nice to WOW when I didn`t use other brands with the same other componets in the case.Robert

tygar
08-08-2015, 10:37 AM
Back when I was developing loads for my brothers and mine 7mm Rem. Mag. rifles I did the sorting process of the variables. When the topic was primers I finally found that there was a `day & night` difference when I tried Federal LR mag. primers, for the better. The groups shot went from very nice to WOW when I didn`t use other brands with the same other componets in the case.Robert

I agree F210M & F215M are the best, most consistent primers out there & I use them in all when ultimate accuracy is the goal. With a couple exceptions. Fed is really soft & in autos with floating firing pins you are risking a slam fire (which I have had & totaled a match M14). So as I stated before I do use CCI in autos & even though when single loading the F210M is more accurate, the safety factor in the CCI is more important to me.

I do find Rem SRM works better in my guns than Fed SRM.