New Ruger Precision rifle [Archive]

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Hardcast416taylor

07-18-2015, 08:56 AM

Bzcraig

07-18-2015, 09:58 AM

Nothing there to get excited about.

Artful

07-18-2015, 10:42 AM

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/7/17/ruger-precision-rifle/
http://d3vlrk5fm1gp81.cloudfront.net/media/2314792/ruger-msr.jpg?preset=article

As Townsend Whelen, former U.S. Army colonel and American Rifleman contributor, was once famously quoted as saying, “Only accurate rifles are interesting.” Employing that rubric alone, the Ruger Precision Rifle is a supremely interesting firearm. And, to the company’s credit, the introduction of additional evaluation criteria such as versatility, reliability and value only make its newest bolt-action repeater all the more intriguing. Featuring sub-minute-of-angle accuracy, the dependability of a bolt gun built on the gunmaker’s proven American action, all the modularity of the über-customizable AR-15 platform, the ability to accept a multitude of magazine types and a price tag that is a literal fraction of many of the guns it will compete against on the market, Ruger’s latest foray into the long-range precision shooting field should pique the interest of a broad range of gun aficionados.

Sturm, Ruger & Co. (http://www.ruger.com/) believes that within the gun world there exists a sizeable segment of shooters who are interested in long-range precision shooting—they just have never been able to justify taking the plunge due to the typically astronomical cost of purchasing a gun designed expressly for that purpose. With an MSRP of $1,399—and a likely eventual selling price closer to $1,100—the Precision Rifle represents Ruger’s invitation for these cost-conscious gun buyers to finally enter the world of long-range shooting (http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2013/10/4/going-long-distance/).

http://www.americanrifleman.org/media/2314794/ruger-msr-profile.jpg?width=1006px&height=271px(Above) The Precision Rifle’s factory buttstock, pistol grip, fore-end and safety selector switch can all be reconfigured using compatible AR-15-style components—opening the gun up to virtually unlimited customization options.

“Competitive pricing is a part of the Ruger brand. We could have built a semi-custom gun for $4,000, but it would have been a novelty—rarely found in the real world,” said Mark Gurney, Ruger’s director of product management. “We wanted to keep the price of the Precision Rifle reasonable so that it would be available to just about anyone.”

The Precision Rifle’s upper receiver and one-piece bolt body are CNC-machined from pre-hardened 4140 chrome/molybdenum alloy steel. The lower receiver is machined in two pieces, right and left halves, from 7075-T6 hard-coat anodized aluminum. That method simplifies manufacture, allows more precise control of machining in the magazine well and makes assembly of small components easier as they can be placed in position in one half before the other half is attached.

Offered at this time in three short-action chamberings, the rifle is available in .308. Win. with a 20" barrel, 6.5 mm Creedmoor with a 24" barrel and .243 Win. with a 26" barrel. The weights vary by chambering, but with the lightest model starting at 9.7 lbs. sans optic, the Precision Rifle is not a light firearm. The evaluation gun provided by Ruger was chambered in 6.5 mm Creedmoor and—after being furnished with a scope, bipod and stock-mounted monopod—tipped the scales at just over 15 lbs.

Development of the Precision Rifle started with the stated goal of sub-m.o.a. accuracy usingAmerican Rifleman’s protocol of averaging five consecutive, five-shot groups. The end product managed to exceed that goal by a fair margin, as internal testing conducted by Ruger has yielded an average of 0.83" at 100 yds using multiple guns. The sample sent toAmerican Rifleman for testing performed even better than that, achieving an average result of 0.76" at the same distance using three ammunition loads.

Forgoing a traditional rifle bedding system, which transfers recoil asymmetrically, the Precision Rifle instead utilizes a linear recoil path to provide the greatest accuracy potential. By directing unwanted movement and vibration straight back into the buttstock, the Ruger’s in-line recoil path minimizes their potential impact on the barrel of the gun as it fires.

“A good bedding system ensures the gun responds the same way during recoil every time, but this gun really isn’t bedded per se. Our gun has a much simpler system, with no friction interfaces between the receiver and stock which can move,” Gurney said. “There is only a buttstock, which is threaded on the back of the receiver, and is such a solid, in-line connection that it is essentially an integral part of the receiver.”

http://www.americanrifleman.org/media/2314797/ruger-msr-3.jpg

The rifle’s buttstock (above left) can be locked in the folded position, allowing the bolt to be removed from the receiver. The patented Multi-Magazine Interface (above middle) allows the gun to feed from both rear- and side-latching box magazines, and the barrels are given a recessed crown and are threaded at the muzzle (above right) to facilitate the use of compensators or suppressors.

The rifle’s barrel is cold hammer-forged 4140 chrome/moly steel with 5R Rifling. According to Gurney, 5R places a land opposite each of the barrel’s grooves, resulting in less aggressive upset and distortion of the bullet as it engages the rifling, thereby aiding in accuracy. The 5R design also features less sharp-edged lands than those present in conventional-style rifling, reducing powder fouling and jacket failures in quick-twist barrels. The company further optimized the Precision Rifle’s accuracy by utilizing the tightest possible chamber and groove tolerances—also taking extra care to ensure a centralized chamber and minimal headspace. Rigidly affixed to the rifle’s receiver via a barrel nut, the gun’s barrel can be easily replaced by a competent gunsmith using a barrel wrench and headspace gauges.

All Precision Rifle barrels are medium-contour (0.75" at the muzzle) and are free-floated within their fore-ends. Twist rates were selected by Ruger to ensure the rifles could stabilize the longer bullets within each chambering that are most popular with long-range shooters. The barrels are threaded at the muzzle (5/8x24 thread pattern) to facilitate the use of compensators or suppressors, and come with a thread protector. A 20-m.o.a. canted Picatinny rail is secured to the top of the receiver by four screws, allowing for increased long-range elevation adjustments with the gun.

Despite all that can go into accurizing a rifle design, it is often the trigger that either makes or breaks a precision firearm—after all, can the rest of a gun truly be considered accurate if a poor trigger makes taking good shots extremely difficult? Fortunately Ruger avoided this potential pitfall altogether by outfitting the Precision Rifle with its fine Marksman trigger. A lever-in-blade design with a user-adjustable pull between 2 lbs., 4 ozs. and 5 lbs., the Marksman trigger installed on our sample gun was superb—breaking crisply at 2 lbs., 7 ozs. Adjustments can be made externally with a wrench that comes integrated into the bolt’s shroud.

According to Ruger (http://www.ruger.com/), among the main reasons it selected the American (http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2014/3/14/rimfires-for-the-next-generation/) action as the heart of its new Precision Rifle is the 70-degree bolt throw and three-lug bolt design. The American design provided Ruger’s engineers with a platform that was easier to manipulate from the shoulder than most 60-degree bolt-action rifles, yet allowed better scope clearance than a 90-degree action. Ruger also incorporated dual cocking cams to help make operating the bolt easier, and those familiar with the American’s smooth-cycling action will recognize the same in the Precision Rifle. An oversize handle was selected for positive bolt manipulation; however, Ruger threaded the knob (5/16x24 thread) to allow for customization.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/media/2314795/ruger-msr-takedown.jpg?width=1083px&height=378px
When exploring its potential use in the Precision Rifle, the Ruger engineers likewise discovered that the bottom bolt lug of the American action, conveniently located at the 6 o’clock position, was able to traverse between the feed lips of many detachable-magazine designs—making it an ideal feeding aid, as the lug helps strip the top cartridge from the magazine and load it into the chamber. Clearances in the bolt body allow it to clear an inserted magazine’s feed lips when it is rotated, and an angled section facilitates its withdrawl to the rear by allowing it to gently depress and override the top cartridge.

While the project was originally intended to utilize only SR25 and Magpul PMAG (http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/3/29/editors-picks-new-for-2015-magpul-pmag-d-60/)s, along the way Ruger’s design team, led by Jonathan Mather, devised a method that allowed them to greatly increase the rifle’s magazine compatibility, the final result being what the company is calling its Multi-Magazine Interface. The MMI, for which Ruger has been awarded one of the gun’s seven patents, allows the Precision Rifle to operate using a plethora of both rear- and side-latching box magazines chambered for .308 Win. (.243 Win. and 6.5 mm Creedmoor cartridges will also feed through unmodified .308 Win. magazines). Examples of compatible magazines include: DPMS, M110, SR25, PMAG and AICS.

Externally the MMI appears to function much like a standard, rear-latching, M14-style magazine release, but inside the magazine well a little something extra is occurring. It essentially works in two stages—once the magazine release, which is located just forward of the trigger guard, has been pressed forward far enough, a side bar is set into motion that also actuates the side latch. Simple yet effective. The gun comes supplied with two 10-round Magpul PMAGs. It is possible that some AR-10 and M14 magazines may also function through the Precision Rifle, but Ruger warns that—due to those magazines’ wider tolerance ranges and varied production histories—most will not.

The rifle’s buttstock, a proprietary Ruger design that the company calls the Precision MSR, allows for up to 3½" of adjustment to the length of pull and 3/4" of comb height customization. Both can be accomplished quickly in the field by flipping two cam levers on the side of the stock to the unlocked position, adjusting the stock to the desired settings and then tightening the levers down again. Although the process is a little more complicated, the cant of the buttpad can also be adjusted up to 9 degrees in either direction.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/media/2314796/ruger-msr-diagram.jpg

Ruger’s factory buttstock has a left-folding hinge that allows it to be locked in the folded position; in fact, the stock must be moved out of the way in order to remove the bolt from the receiver. A bolt-release button is located on the upper left side of the receiver, and it is easily activated. The Ruger Precision MSR also comes with a soft rubber buttpad and a section of integral, bottom-mounted Picatinny rail for the installation of a stabilizing monopod.

The buttstock is attached via a standard mil-spec, carbine-length AR-style receiver extension, but without the internal buffer system, allowing the bolt to travel inside the extension during manipulation. As such, the rifle can accept any mil-spec AR-compatible stocks—similarly, the Precision Rifle’s pistol grip, fore-end and safety selector switch can all be reconfigured using AR-style components—which opens the gun up to the big world of AR customization. While end users are free to remove Ruger’s buttstock and swap it out with the replacement of their choice, most shooters who are primarily concerned with getting a gun they can use right out of the box will be more than happy with the Precision MSR.

The gun’s standard configuration also includes an extended-reach AR-style pistol grip, 15" free-floating Samson Keymod Evolution fore-end and a reversible, 45-degree safety selector. If any of the rifle’s default furniture is ripe for replacement, in my opinion it’s the fore-end which—when affixed to a substantially heavy rifle like the Ruger Precision—takes on an overly aggressive texture.

The gun media’s first opportunity to lay hands on the Precision Rifle came in mid-April at FTW Ranch in Barksdale, Texas, where about a dozen gun writers got the chance to put Ruger’s latest rifle through FTW’s Precision training course. When a colleague of mine learned that I would be among those invited to attend the event, he expressed how jealous he was, calling the ranch a “long-range shooter’s paradise”—which, of course, to my mind made it the ideal venue to wring out Ruger’s new long-range rifle. And after a week spent turning the ranch’s 12,000 acres and 14 ranges into my personal playground, I have no quibbles whatsoever with my coworker’s assessment of the place.

After a brief introduction to the gun by Ruger and a short classroom session by our FTW instructors to brush up on minutes and mils and hold-overs, it was off into the Hill Country of Central Texas to see what the rifles were really capable of. Our evaluation guns were chambered in 6.5 mm Creedmoor, and topped with Burris XTR II 4-20x 50 mm riflescopes outfitted with the G2B Mil-Dot reticle. I found this to be a solid union of gun, glass and reticle. And after putting several hundred rounds downfield, I also came to the opinion that the 6.5 mm Creedmoor might well be the perfect chambering for this particular rifle.

Like the Precision Rifle itself, the 6.5 mm Creedmoor cartridge and chamber were developed from the start with accuracy in mind. With a freebore diameter specified at 0.2645" and bullets measuring 0.2640", the projectiles are forced to enter the rifling with minimal in-bore yaw. The Creedmoor also produces plenty of energy (most loads hover right around 2,400 ft.-lbs. at the muzzle)—and thanks to a relatively high ballistic coefficient, will retain that energy at extended distances—yet recoils minimally enough through a gun with the Precision Rifle’s heft as to allow for all-day shooting sessions with absolutely no discomfort. During the course of the event, we exclusively used Hornady’s 140-gr. A-MAX offering, and the guns seemed to agree with that load quite well.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/media/2314793/ruger-msr-shooting.jpg?width=519px&height=271pxThe end result? There’s an oft-used phrase in gun circles that you have undoubtedly heard on an untold number of occasions, “This gun shoots better than I do.” Well, triteness be danged, this is nonetheless an apt expression in the context of the Ruger Precision Rifle in my hands. I’m not too proud to admit that any steel left unrung during my time at the ranch was far more often the consequence of operator error than it was of an unpredictable rifle. Prior to my sojourn to FTW, my experience with long-range precision shooting was regrettably quite limited. And yet the Ruger Precision Rifle made me look good.

On the final day of our visit, the instructors took my fellow gun writers and me on what the ranch terms a “Drive Around,” which is essentially a Jeep tour of the premises, stopping at 10 locations along the way to take two shots at a steel target off in the distance. Target distances varied from 300 to 875 yds., with most resting in the 400 to 600 yd. range. Some were placed well above us on a ridge, others were positioned far below in a gorge and more still were so distant that several hills and valleys stood between us and our target. And due to the Hill Country’s rugged and sharply varied terrain, no two shots featured even remotely similar wind conditions.

Despite my inexperience, I managed to connect on 16 of 20 possible targets, including the 875 yd. shot situated two valleys over from my shooting position. Now, I can undoubtedly attribute much of that result to the tutoring and expert wind calls provided by FTW’s phenomenal instructors, Doug Prichard and Larry Summerfield, but a decent share of the credit must also be placed on the rifle. In addition to tack-driving accuracy, it cycled through approximately 500 rounds of ammunition without a single feeding, extraction or ejection issue.

Unfortunately, in many areas of the country it can be difficult to find adequate space to truly indulge in the sport of long-range precision shooting. The open spaces needed to really stretch a cartridge’s legs simply aren’t available to many shooters, so a lot of these folks resign themselves to the next-best alternative open to them—benchrest shooting at 100 yds. And while the Precision Rifle was made for long-distance use, it can still punch paper at closer ranges with the best of them. The first zeroed-in, five-shot, 100-yd. group I fired through the gun at FTW measured a tidy 0.51", and as you can see from the tabulated results, the rifle is capable of keeping groups under an inch all day long—though, as might be expected given the twist rate, it does seem to favor heavier bullets.

Reaching out and hitting a small target from a distance beyond what is clearly visible with the naked eye is an amazingly gratifying achievement. I had no idea how much I would enjoy it when I set out for the ranch. And having the confidence that you’re behind the trigger of a gun that will, if you also do your part, allow you to accomplish that feat consistently brings a level of satisfaction that defies description. The Ruger Precision Rifle is just such a gun.

I’ll never forget the sense of pride and accomplishment I felt the first time I fired off a group, walked downrange and realized that I’d placed all of my shots into the same jagged hole. The Ruger Precision Rifle—offering consistent accuracy and endless customization options at a price point that most riflemen should find palatable—stands poised to introduce a whole new wave of long-distance shooters to that same rush.

Mauser48

07-18-2015, 11:49 AM

It looks like they are just trying to copy an accuracy international. Knowing ruger they will want way too much for it.

M-Tecs

07-18-2015, 12:16 PM

"With an MSRP of $1,399—and a likely eventual selling price closer to $1,100—the Precision Rifle represents Ruger’s invitation for these cost-conscious gun buyers to finally enter the world of long-distance-shooting"

At that price point it will be a winner. The F-Class and Hi-Power shooters will love it if Ruger puts a quality barrel on it. Historically that has been Ruger’s Achilles heel every time they have tried to enter the precision rifle market.

Silverboolit

07-18-2015, 03:56 PM

This may do well in Cal. due to the bolt?

Larry Gibson

07-18-2015, 04:44 PM

That style with all those gadgets is the "state of the art" for tacticool rifles, F Class rifles and match rifle shooting these days. As mentioned if Ruger puts a barrel on them capable of 1/2 moa they won't keep them in stock at that price.

Larry Gibson

rking22

07-18-2015, 05:25 PM

I'm with Hardscast416taylor, not much there for me. I do see it has lots of "aftermarket option" possiability.

M-Tecs

07-18-2015, 06:47 PM

. I did not see barrel twists in blog?

Lower left hand corner.

Got-R-Did

07-18-2015, 09:05 PM

Agreed that if they can find a way to make accurate bbl's like they used to, this will appeal to a whole new group of shooters and likely convert a few more. I have lusted after the Barrett 99(?), but can not justify their asking price. The 5R rifling will likely help in the potential/sustained accuracy. I hope to start shooting F-Class in So. Indiana R&P Assoc's matches once they finish the new bridge north of Louisville, KY. Takes over 1 1/2 hrs to get there currently, when bridge is opened it will take 35 min. Of course, I will need some good glass on it as well. Maybe the new Bushnell or Vortex offerings.
Got-R-Did.

Dryball

07-19-2015, 01:40 AM

Looks like a good gun. Appears very similar to the Savage BA's with a lower price.

Mauser48

07-19-2015, 11:21 AM

Usually F class shooters will have totally custom guns and not bother with factory rifles. Te problem is going to be the aftermarket accesories for the ruger.

pietro

07-19-2015, 11:42 AM

This may do well in Cal. due to the bolt?

Also in NY & CT........

.

M-Tecs

07-19-2015, 12:35 PM

Usually F class shooters will have totally custom guns and not bother with factory rifles. Te problem is going to be the aftermarket accesories for the ruger.

The Savage 12 F Class is a very popular choice for the some F Class shooters as a factory rifle.

The Eliseo Tubegun is a very popular stock for F Class

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek0101/

http://www.gotxring.com/

I use a Barnard action http://www.barnard.co.nz/actions.htm in mine. With the stock and action and barrel are 2 1/2 to 3 times the cost of the Ruger.

What I am curious about is what aftermarket accesories would be needed for the Ruger? Other than possibly a trigger I am at a loss to come up with anything that is not currently available. http://www.guns.com/2015/07/18/its-official-meet-the-ruger-precision-rifle/

On as side note I am aware of three Rugers that have been placed on order by shooters that I build F-Class and long range rifles for.

Larry Gibson

07-19-2015, 12:52 PM

A 1 in 10" twist for the .308W.....shame. A 1 in 12" twist would have been much better for use cast bullet shooters.

Larry Gibson

Hardcast416taylor

07-19-2015, 12:59 PM

After reading the asking price and calibers offered printed here I went into my laughing fit as I was worried about. After about 5 minutes I had to go sit in my recliner chair with a large glass of cold water. Just like the "Black rifle", I don`t have any use for it.Robert

M-Tecs

07-19-2015, 02:06 PM

Different strokes for different folks. My favorite rifles are Trapdoor Springfield's, Winchester Hi-Wall, Winchester pre 64 Models 70's and M-14's. However, when I am shooting competition it's not about using my favorite rifles it about winning.

If Ruger can truly field an out of box competition rifle with these features for a street price of $1,100.00 that would be a 1/2 to 1/3 the price of anything currently available to the long range competitors.

Conventional stocks and bedding methods are the weakest link in conventional competition rifles. This type of rifle has none of the issues conventional stocks and bedding methods posse.

With my Models 70's I don't care if I get a 1/2" moa poi change due to a change in humidity but that is not acceptable with my competition rifles.

If you can find a Tubb 2000 rifle http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek016.html they start a $5,000.00.

http://www.mcmillanfirearms.com/firearms/alias-target/

http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=Tubb+2000

M-Tecs

07-19-2015, 03:01 PM

This is going sell very well.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/07/18/ruger-precision-rifle-high-end-almost-ar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4az5LsQaF0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9axtjT_tkg&feature=youtu.be

http://www.realguns.com/articles/726.htm

Nrut

07-19-2015, 03:15 PM

M-Tecs,

From what I have been reading the street price is going to be closer to $900.00 than a thousand..

The fellow who posted the post below, is a manager of a large gun store in Kentucky..
Not just any manager, as he has had I number of special buys for members of 24 hr. Campfire directly from the manufacturer's...
These special buy's have special features not normally found on production run rifles..

Re: Ruger's New Offering

shortactionsmokerhttp://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/images/moods/default/content.gif
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 4605
Loc: Western Kentucky
You'll see them on shelves around $900. The 243 has a 26" barrel and a 7.7" twist...

Lots of neat features. I like the versatility of barrel switching. 308, 6.5 Creedmoor, 243 - I'm sure some others will follow. Being able to switch mags is pretty cool too.

From this thread...
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/10158260/1

Interesting read in itself..

The demographic's for rifle buyers is changing at light speed..

If I was 10 years younger I would be buying this rifle myself even though there is no "F" class, PRS, or SRM matchs in my area..

There is a annual "1000 yard" match near by and a friend just bought a 1/4 section with enough room to shoot steel at 900 meters with a backstop..

Still trying to talk myself out buying one of these rifles..
LOL

HardcastTaylor, this is for you [smilie=s: because you make me laff!

>grin<

M-Tecs

07-19-2015, 03:39 PM

At a close to $900.00 price point it won't matter if the barrels are like the ones they put on the Palma rifles (junk). Shooters will change them.

When Beretta closed out the Tikka 595 Master Sporters http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2007/12/tikka-master-sporter-in-308/ for $699.99 I replaced about 35 barrels with ones of the proper twist and contour for High Power Shooters. http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/tikkamsspecs.pdf

M-Tecs

07-19-2015, 03:55 PM

From Ruger

http://ruger.com/micros/rpr/models.html

http://ruger.com/intro.html

http://ruger.com/micros/rpr/features.html

Larry Gibson

07-19-2015, 04:42 PM

Artful

07-19-2015, 06:24 PM

http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/story/1564384-the-ruger-precision-rifle-6-5-cm

Barrels can be easily replaced by a competent gunsmith using AR-style wrenches and headspace gauges

http://www.realguns.com/images/straightlineillusrpr.jpg

The Ruger Precision Rifle's 4140 Chrome Moly barrel is a cold hammer forged, 5R rifled optimized with minimum bore and groove dimensions, minimum headspaced and a centralized chamber. Minimum spec headspace and chambers are always good as they minimize pressure dampening as factory brass expands to fill the chamber and case stretch as the cartridge case stretches to fill the headspace gap. For handloaders, minimal stretch extends brass life by minimizing cold resizing.

The barrel is medium contour, 3/4" at the muzzle and 5/8"x24 threaded and capped which opens the door to hanging all sorts of things on the end of the barrel; brakes, flash hiders, suppressors. The 5R type rifling offers a number of benefits. Some stated result end up in food fights, so I will stick with those generally receiving concurrence. The sides of the lands are sloped rather than cut perpendicular to the grooves and lands are positioned across from grooves so there are never two opposing lands. The results are reduced bore wear, reduced bore fouling and greater accuracy resulting from reduced bullet and bullet jacket deformation.

http://www.realguns.com/images/barrelchangetpcyy.jpg
A handguard nut screws onto the barrel nut to provide a mounting point for the rifle's floating handguard. The handguard is a 6061 T6 aluminum, Type III anodized piece made by Samson Manufacturing as their Keymod Evolution Series 15. It attaches to the Precision Rifle's handguard nut with splined thermal bushings.

http://www.realguns.com/images/handguardbarrelfitdetail.gif

The position of the barrel nut, the handguard nut, the split thermal bushings and the handguard are all timed to one another affecting a very secure fit for the floating handguard.

http://www.turners.com/ruger/ruger-precision-rifle-308-win--432030
$999.98

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4az5LsQaF0

http://www.hhshootingsports.com/WireShots/archives/9917

M-Tecs

07-19-2015, 11:24 PM

With the barrel nut you will be able to order fully chambered barrels just like the Savage Rifles so anyone with a wrench and a headspace gauge can change barrels.

It won't be long before aftermarket two stage triggers will be available.

Artful

07-20-2015, 02:29 AM

Yeah, I'm thinking they should make up a package deal w/ 243, 6.5, and 308 as one or at least offer factory barrels as I'd use 243 and 308. Assuming it's going to be available at LGS in Phoenix fairly soon - I sure didn't see one at the gun show this last weekend.

Lloyd Smale

07-20-2015, 06:57 AM

my experience with rugers shows that to be a pretty big IF
That style with all those gadgets is the "state of the art" for tacticool rifles, F Class rifles and match rifle shooting these days. As mentioned if Ruger puts a barrel on them capable of 1/2 moa they won't keep them in stock at that price.

Larry Gibson

Silverboolit

07-20-2015, 01:46 PM

Looks like a barrel could be made up quite easily as the machining isn't too complex. Gotta go and find my kneepads and ask SWMBO if there is room in the budget for a new toy!

dragon813gt

07-20-2015, 01:54 PM

Three of the past four new Rugers I bought had to go back for final finishing. Their quality control as of late is horrible in my opinion. I'd be leery about the quality control on a rifle such as this.

Outpost75

07-20-2015, 01:56 PM

144985

This guy ^ will buy one! But not me......

144986
More my speed^

M-Tecs

07-20-2015, 03:03 PM

I have not decided if I am going to order one. Most likely I will but either way I will get some hands on with these. So far I am aware of five that have been ordered by shooters I do work for. Three are NRA High Power long range competitors and two are prairie dog hunters. Four are going with 243 and one in the 6.5 Creedmoor.

It will be interesting to see when the 223/300BO and the Magnum version will be introduced.

M-Tecs

07-20-2015, 03:06 PM

Outpost75 nice Mauser M77. Not so much on the top pic! You sure that is not a woman?

Mauser48

07-20-2015, 03:32 PM

I'd buy one if they put a 26" barrel in .308W with a 12 or preferably 13" twist. A 20" barrel is a tacticool waste in my opinion. Looks like the barrels may be of better quality; "hammer forged with 5R rifling".

Larry Gibson

In most cases a barrel over 20 inches in 308 isn't necessary. They have proven that all the powder burns in the 20 inches of barrel so there is no velocity gain. They also use the 10 twist because it is meant to shoot 168-208 grain match bullets.

M-Tecs

07-20-2015, 03:57 PM

To stay supersonic with a 20" barrel at a 1,000 yards you have to push the 308 fairly hard and you flat can't do it with some bullets. The 26" to 30" pipes don't have the same issues.

With the old 155 SMK (2155) and the current 155 Amax I need 2950 plus fps to stay supersonic at a 1,000 yards. The new 155 Scenar and 155 SMK (2156) only need only just above 2800 fps to stay supersconic at a 1,000 yards.

Good info about how the transonic region effect bullets. http://thearmsguide.com/5348/long-range-shooting-external-ballistics-transonic-region/

odis

07-20-2015, 04:11 PM

When Townsend Whelen made his famous quote about accurate rifles they only made handsome rifles.

oldred

07-20-2015, 05:41 PM

When Townsend Whelen made his famous quote about accurate rifles they only made handsome rifles.

As opposed to the ugly ones made today!

country gent

07-20-2015, 05:48 PM

I t is intersting concept and should sell if just as a budget beginners Accross the coarse rifle. or long range rifle. A full blown match AR, M14 or others are 2-5 times the cost making it hard for new shoopters to get started. For beginner getting his first taste of formal matches this rifle can grow with Him or her. All the basics are there. After first year a new trigger installed, then when ready a better barrel installed. The big extra cost starting is going to be sights and mounts for them getting started. I find this rifle interesting in that back when bolt actions were still popular for NRA Match rifles I contacted ruger to get information to build one on a 77 ruger I had. I was polietly told there wasnt enough buisness there for them to bother. Now they appear to be catering to it.

Ramjet-SS

07-20-2015, 05:54 PM

I wonder if for Police rifles of the sniper persuasion they may be a good fit for tight budgets?

Silverboolit

07-20-2015, 06:15 PM

Something I heard a long time ago, 'A young man will never buy an old man's car, but an old man will buy a young man's car'. The market is for black long guns and plastic auto handguns. Younger shooters seem to have a market share that Ruger is going after, hopefully successfully.

Moonie

07-22-2015, 02:08 PM

My middle son is interested in this rifle, he has had one in his hands to fondle. He liked it. His first handgun was a 1911 (my influence on him) but he did just buy a Glock 32 yesterday... Young Marines...

Electric88

07-22-2015, 02:14 PM

I didn't see that these would work with Magpul pmags when I looked previously. That's a nice little bonus. If this thing is as accurate as they claim, It's going to be very difficult to convince myself not to buy one!

Hannibal

07-22-2015, 02:20 PM

I'm waiting to see if the accuracy claims are true. Heard this sort of thing before, rarely observed it on the range.

Larry Gibson

07-22-2015, 02:59 PM

In most cases a barrel over 20 inches in 308 isn't necessary. They have proven that all the powder burns in the 20 inches of barrel so there is no velocity gain. They also use the 10 twist because it is meant to shoot 168-208 grain match bullets.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I have the pressure tests with the traces to prove it. The powder continues to burn and push the bullet faster well after 20". Otherwise how is it .308W Palma barrels push 3000 +/- fps with 155s in a 28 - 30" barrel? Show me where you get that from any 20" barrel in .308W?

BTW; as far as accuracy goes my .308W 26, 27.6 and 31" barrels are just as accurate as my 18 and 20" barrels but the longer barrels give much higher velocity which gives advantages down range. Also you might do some night shooting and watch the burning powder ball of flame come out of 18 and 20" barrels while not so much in 22, 24 and 26" barrels and hardly any muzzle flash from 28 - 31" barrels. The flash and ball of flame means something is still burning.

Larry Gibson

Clay M

07-22-2015, 03:51 PM

My next long range target rifle will be some type of 6.5,either the Lapua or the Creedmoor. It will have a Krieger barrel and be on a standard bolt action platform.
I am sure this Ruger will probably shoot OK, but this rifle is not the form that suits me.

Idaho Sharpshooter

07-22-2015, 05:40 PM

The following is a list of post-2000 rifles that are worth buying, as compared to a pre-64 Model 70.

1.

2.

3.

Note: Since Bill Sr died, everything Ruger has offered is under bean-counter control, not engineered to be a better product.

Note 2: Or, a fairly blatant copy of something else. Ref: mediocre copy of 1911, AR-15's and this copy of the DPMS.

Clay M

07-22-2015, 06:30 PM

If I am going to compete, I have to have the best.Unless it is a factory rifle only event.
I have some factory rifles that are amazing.
I have trained all my life with a standard bolt gun.I am not going to switch to something else at this point.I am too old.
I believe I could get that Ruger to shoot well, but I won't waste the time or money.
If it has a hammer forged barrel like Steyr puts on their rifles, then yes it will shoot.
Do I think it could hang with a standard bolt rifle acquitted with a Krieger barrel?? Maybe in the right hands, but not in my hands..
I am use to a Jewell trigger and a standard bolt gun.

M-Tecs

07-22-2015, 11:34 PM

and this copy of the DPMS.

DPMS doen't make a bolt gun nor a Modular Chassis System. What DPMS rifle did Ruger copy?

Four Fingers of Death

07-23-2015, 09:01 AM

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I have the pressure tests with the traces to prove it. The powder continues to burn and push the bullet faster well after 20". Otherwise how is it .308W Palma barrels push 3000 +/- fps with 155s in a 28 - 30" barrel? Show me where you get that from any 20" barrel in .308W?

BTW; as far as accuracy goes my .308W 26, 27.6 and 31" barrels are just as accurate as my 18 and 20" barrels but the longer barrels give much higher velocity which gives advantages down range. Also you might do some night shooting and watch the burning powder ball of flame come out of 18 and 20" barrels while not so much in 22, 24 and 26" barrels and hardly any muzzle flash from 28 - 31" barrels. The flash and ball of flame means something is still burning.

Larry Gibson

Possibly with factory ammo, the gains are not so great as with reloads developed specifically for the longer barrels. The F class type shooters generally reload, wheras Tactical shooters are more likely (although not exclusively of course) use factory ammo.

garym1a2

07-23-2015, 12:39 PM

All they need to do is put the bolt handle on the left side of the rifle and chamber it in 7x308.

Larry Gibson

07-23-2015, 01:12 PM

Test rifle in American Rifleman showed excellent accuracy with factory ammo in 6.5 Creedmore. Also looks to be very well thought out and is adaptable to a lot of AR products. Also has an excellent fully adjustable trigger. Supposedly will work with some M14 Mags. Waiting for 28 - 30+" Palma contour barrel in .308W with 13 or 14" twist.

ORRRRRRR

Have goodsteel re-barrel with a 30" Palma contour barrel with 14" twist in 30 XCB.......:bigsmyl2:

Larry Gibson

garym1a2

07-24-2015, 12:55 PM

Here is a decent reference on the subject. If you are a distance shooter you want every fps you can get. Under 300 yards you will be hard to tell the difference. http://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308-winchester-7-62x51mm-nato-barrel-length-versus-velocity-28-to-16-5/

In most cases a barrel over 20 inches in 308 isn't necessary. They have proven that all the powder burns in the 20 inches of barrel so there is no velocity gain. They also use the 10 twist because it is meant to shoot 168-208 grain match bullets.

W.R.Buchanan

07-24-2015, 01:23 PM

Usually F class shooters will have totally custom guns and not bother with factory rifles. Te problem is going to be the aftermarket accesories for the ruger.

Most guys entering F Class are buying Savage Rifles which are around the same price as this gun and excellent conventionally styled guns. This gun offers some distinct advantages over those guns as far as adaptability.

I am just reading the article in AR as we speak. But so far it looks to me like they did their homework. I know Mark Gurney and he is enthusiastic and pretty sharp when it comes to giving the public what they want.

As far as accessories are concerned the gun will take many AR add ons as well as common Muzzle Brakes, Suppressors, Bipods, and any kind of Optic you could possibly want. What more could you want?

What impressed me the most was the fact that this gun is essentially their "American Rifle" action coupled to a pistol grip lower unit that has a mag well. The receiver is machined out of a piece of pre-hardened 4140 not cast as most Ruger Receivers are.

For all of you non machinists out there, using pre-hardened CroMoly insures that the machined dimensions don't change. Cro Moly moves when heat treated, so you get that out of the way and then machine it and you are done, and are holding perfect tolerances on every dimension instead of having to guess which way the thing will move after heat treat. When you are talking about a receiver which will have numerous cutouts it is nearly impossible to predict which dimensions will be affected by heat treat.

We have been doing this since about the mid 80's and the fact that it requires a little more sophisticated tools is a non issue. The end result justifies the extra cost of the tools as it eliminates the cost of heat treat after the fact. The cost of the stock is virtually the same as soft 4140 and the hard stuff machines much better. Most who have machined Cromoly know that it machines like Ship. The hard stuff yields excellent finishes you just have to use Poly Crystalline Diamond cutting tools to get there.

Today this is normal.

Randy

Larry Gibson

07-24-2015, 04:10 PM

Possibly with factory ammo, the gains are not so great as with reloads developed specifically for the longer barrels. The F class type shooters generally reload, wheras Tactical shooters are more likely (although not exclusively of course) use factory ammo.

Sorry but the .308W longer Palma barrels were developed with factory ammo as the requirement; 7.62 NATO Spec issue M80 equivalent. The longer barrels had enough velocity gain for the bullets to stay sonic to 1000 yards and the slower twists improved accuracy.

With M80 7.63 I lose right at 100 fps going from 22 to 20" barrels and close to 150 fps with an 18" barrel. I gain 50 - 75 fps going from 22" to 26" barrels and 100+ fps with the 27.6" Palma barrel. The gain from 22" barrels to 30" barrels is close to 250 fps. The difference of 350 fps +/- might not make a difference at 300 yards but at 600 - 1000 yards it makes a substantial difference. Haven't seen any 1000 yard Match, Palma Match shooters or F Class shooters using 20" barrels in any caliber..........unless they were shooting just for S&Gs. Any guess why that Creedmore barrel isn't 20" long if that length barrel is "just as effective"?

Larry Gibson

BTW; only my AR Match rifle doesn't look like a "standard" match rifle of yesteryear. My M1A match rifle, my M1903 National Match Type II, my Savage Comp and my M70 Target still look like regular match rifles of yesteryear and I still compete with them. However, even though I thoroughly enjoy the older styles/types I am not adverse to using anything modern......if it works and a 20" barreled .308W just ain't gonna work for truly long range riflery.

MBTcustom

07-24-2015, 05:06 PM

Sorry but the .308W longer Palma barrels were developed with factory ammo as the requirement; 7.62 NATO Spec issue M80 equivalent. The longer barrels had enough velocity gain for the bullets to stay sonic to 1000 yards and the slower twists improved accuracy.

With M80 7.63 I lose right at 100 fps going from 22 to 20" barrels and close to 150 fps with an 18" barrel. I gain 50 - 75 fps going from 22" to 26" barrels and 100+ fps with the 27.6" Palma barrel. The gain from 22" barrels to 30" barrels is close to 250 fps. The difference of 350 fps +/- might not make a difference at 300 yards but at 600 - 1000 yards it makes a substantial difference. Haven't seen any 1000 yard Match, Palma Match shooters or F Class shooters using 20" barrels in any caliber..........unless they were shooting just for S&Gs. Any guess why that Creedmore barrel isn't 20" long if that length barrel is "just as effective"?

Larry Gibson

BTW; only my AR Match rifle doesn't look like a "standard" match rifle of yesteryear. My M1A match rifle, my M1903 National Match Type II, my Savage Comp and my M70 Target still look like regular match rifles of yesteryear and I still compete with them. However, even though I thoroughly enjoy the older styles/types I am not adverse to using anything modern......if it works and a 20" barreled .308W just ain't gonna work for truly long range riflery.

This is true. I build rifles that later come back for a setback. When I lop 1-6 inches off a barrel there is always a significant FPS loss from its former iteration. Barrel length greatly effects speed and muzzle pressure.

Another thing that I can't take such a hard line on, but I have noticed, is that often it is harder to find an excellent load with a short barrel, than it is with a longer barrel.
I believe this has to do with harmonics, (but it could just as easily be explained by barrel weight alone, and the stability that comes to a rifle that is heavier) Like I always say: Weight is the poor mans accurizer.
Understand though, I'm not talking about the difference between 3" groups and .5" groups. It's more like the difference between .8" and .2" groups.

Clay M

07-24-2015, 07:32 PM

This is true. I build rifles that later come back for a setback. When I lop 1-6 inches off a barrel there is always a significant FPS loss from its former iteration. Barrel length greatly effects speed and muzzle pressure.

Another thing that I can't take such a hard line on, but I have noticed, is that often it is harder to find an excellent load with a short barrel, than it is with a longer barrel.
I believe this has to do with harmonics, (but it could just as easily be explained by barrel weight alone, and the stability that comes to a rifle that is heavier) Like I always say: Weight is the poor mans accurizer.
Understand though, I'm not talking about the difference between 3" groups and .5" groups. It's more like the difference between .8" and .2" groups.

You may be right on the loads with a short barrels.
My Steyr Tactical .308 has a 20" barrel. It will shoot 1/2 MOA as long as I feed it Norma 202, otherwise
the groups are around an inch

Seems that most of my short barrel Mannlichers are finicky .They will shoot and shoot well, but it took a lot of load development. Probably why people sold them to me. I have a Heym that is a beautiful hunting rifle , but it will only shoot flat base bullets well...But is shoots them very well.The guy I bought it from shot boat tails. It will not shoot boat tails at all.

All of my long range target rifles have at least a 26" barrel.
I like the 26" barrel, it is still fairly easy to carry.

My next target rifle will either be the 6BR or the 6.5X47 Lapua..
Either will do well at 1000 yds..

Artful

07-25-2015, 01:27 AM

Here is a decent reference on the subject. If you are a distance shooter you want every fps you can get. Under 300 yards you will be hard to tell the difference. http://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308-winchester-7-62x51mm-nato-barrel-length-versus-velocity-28-to-16-5/
Good link

http://rifleshooter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/308-optimum-barrel-length-chart.jpg
http://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308-winchester-7-62x51mm-nato-barrel-length-versus-velocity-28-to-16-5/

Hannibal

07-25-2015, 01:40 AM

Hannibal

07-25-2015, 01:50 AM

Understand though, I'm not talking about the difference between 3" groups and .5" groups. It's more like the difference between .8" and .2" groups.

.2" groups? Mother of Pearle. I'd about give up my left . . . . YEAH to see THAT on a regular basis in a .30 rifle.

Artful

07-25-2015, 05:41 AM

.2" groups? Mother of Pearle. I'd about give up my left . . . . YEAH to see THAT on a regular basis in a .30 rifle.
it's out there - somewhere
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/miketarg02x600op.jpg

Just not close to my shooting lane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bswlEbkvepc

Clay M

07-25-2015, 08:45 AM

My biggest beef with the .308 Winchester is that it is NOT easy to retain acceptable velocity for j-word bullet expansion at 300 yds. Which is my personal range limitation at this date. Not completely un-doable, but something to keep in mind.

Moot point if you hunt heavily timbered or hilly terrain.

As far as jacketed bullets for hunting. I use either a 165gr or 150 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. They seem to expand well at lower velocities..

Larry Gibson

07-25-2015, 10:51 AM

Clay M

07-25-2015, 11:24 AM

cainttype

07-25-2015, 07:34 PM

This may prove to be the most profitable, best thought-out, rifle from Ruger in recent history... and that's coming from a big fan of the M77 Hawkeye compact rifles.
There's a big market for the black rifles nowadays, and Ruger might just deliver a real bargain for the people that are interested in them... That's something Ruger's actually been pretty successful at for a long time.

MBTcustom

07-25-2015, 09:07 PM

.2" groups? Mother of Pearle. I'd about give up my left . . . . YEAH to see THAT on a regular basis in a .30 rifle.

Well why not? I can probably build you one for less than $2000. $3500 and I can guarantee it with example targets and load data. It really isn't that hard if you start with a good barrel and screw good parts on behind it.

Like the GSR, Ruger is giving a lot for the money with this rifle. Who cares if it shoots worth beens or not? Buy it and spend another $600 on a barrel and some gentle nudges in the right direction and you have a true precision rifle for less than $2000.
I say good on Ruger!

runfiverun

07-25-2015, 11:25 PM

Dang,, I actually agree with Larry about the Hornady Interlock bullets. :lol:

IF I use sensible muzzle velocity's and keep their striking velocity within a reasonable range they will expand and penetrate just like the pictures in the book. [at least that's what the wound channels tell me]

Tim is spot on with his assessment of the rifle too.
I'm really thinking about one in 6.5 creed more as a long range varmint rig.
if I shoot the barrel out [or it doesn't shoot that well] I have about 200 cartridge options and a solid platform to work with.
I'd still be about the price of a comparable rifle after a re-barrel.

Four Fingers of Death

07-26-2015, 05:06 AM

Two of my most accurate (non fancy target) rifles, a wood/blue M77Mk2 in 300WM and a Ruger American Compact in 223!

flounderman

07-26-2015, 07:41 AM

That has got to be the ugliest rifle ever made, is my opinion

Airman Basic

07-26-2015, 09:24 AM

That has got to be the ugliest rifle ever made, is my opinion
No, that would be this thing:
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?3619-2012-Mossberg-Zombie-Lever-Action

Artful

07-26-2015, 10:26 AM

M-Tecs

07-26-2015, 11:51 AM

The Swiss Vetterli series is also visually challenged. http://www.swissrifles.com/vetterli/

dragon813gt

07-26-2015, 12:09 PM

I guess some have never seen the boat paddle stocks Ruger used to use. And to think that now they're coveted by collectors.

M-Tecs

07-26-2015, 05:46 PM

One more that is hard on the eyes http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details.cfm?id=15453&category=15&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=

376Steyr

07-26-2015, 06:52 PM

You dang kids with your self-contained cartridges, percussion caps, and flintlocks! Everybody knows the only gonne worth having is a matchlock!

Artful

07-26-2015, 08:05 PM

I guess some have never seen the boat paddle stocks Ruger used to use. And to think that now they're coveted by collectors.

http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/3910142628/7217832/9246292a92e462b8ce5d9e7678ee2f65.jpg

that's not bad in my eyes
I mean Ruger's rifle
http://www.americanrifleman.org/media/2314794/ruger-msr-profile.jpg?width=1006px&height=271px
isn't that dissimilar to other's in the same class
Savage's offering
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/savage110ba01.png
Remington's
http://www.shwat.com/Portals/0/Images/BlogPics/S-Owen/Remington/Chassis%20Rifle/Remington-700-Tactical-Chassis-6.jpg
Colt's 2012 Tactical Rifle
http://www.colt.com/portals/0/productimages/2013/M2012_left_shortmag_twisted_700w.png
Desert Tactical
http://primalrights.com/images/reviews/dtasrs/IMG_6360.jpg
Accuracy International
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/aiax338.jpg

And like the HK G3 or FN FAL - The Beauty is in the function

runfiverun

07-26-2015, 09:48 PM

What's worse
number 1
http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww189/wjt1169/SHOT2012-Mossberg/Mossberg-leveraction-Zombie-1500-B3.jpg
Which is voluntary choice of parts
or
number 2
http://www.exilemachine.net/images/TYPE_II_NYS.JPG
Which is INVOLUNTARY parts forced by New York State law makers...

I like #2 cause it crams it down their throats.
no matter what it looks like it's still an EBR.
I don't know how I'd shoot it though as there ain't no way to reach the trigger.
but I'd buy a box load of them if I lived somewhere that mandated I have one like that.

Ramjet-SS

07-26-2015, 10:12 PM

In my own 18 - 20" barreled .308Ws over the years I've come to use the Hornady 150 SP or 150 SPBTs for deer and lighter skinned game. With a muzzle velocity of 2570 - 2650 they are very accurate and expand well to 350 - 400 yards yet hold together in deer at 25+ yards. I found the Nosler BTs didn't hold together very well on the closer range shots though they are an excellent choice if closer shots aren't expected.

Larry Gibson

I have found the Nosler 150 grain BT to very accurate from my Ruger GS but you are correct they destroy meat on Whitetail. I really like that Ruger is stepping outside the box some they are in business to be in business so whatever the motivation I like the fact they are thinking outside normal constraints of The old Ruger firearms. Heck they will keep thier identity and they will continue to sell and move thier core line of products. ai do wish they would put just a little more effort into the Number 1s though and continue with the limited production offerings once per year.

Clay M

07-27-2015, 08:09 PM

I use the Nosler BT mainly for shots 200+ yds. I have had great luck with them in a .270 win for dead right there kills.
My longest shot has been about 400 yds with that rifle.
Yeah they can mess up some meat, but not meat I was going to use .
I shot a big Boar Hog with that bullet .The Hog was only 100yds away .He ran about 65 yds and dropped. I found nothing but the base of the bullet on the far side of the hide. It blew on entrance. I wasn't really hog hunting or I would have taken a different rifle.
I shot an antelope with the same gun at about 250 yds. He went down so fast I thought I had missed. The locals I gave the meat to complained. They said you could fill the bullet hole with water and stock it with fish. It really did make a mess of that animal.

M-Tecs

07-27-2015, 11:08 PM

As I stated earlier I know five people that have ordered these. The first one came in. First the negatives. Even at 2 1/4 pounds the trigger has a little creep and the butt plate does not adjust up and down. After that it is all good. Actually for an under a $1,000 chassis rifle it is great. The magazine system is a stroke of genius. Accuracy testing should be later this week. If it shoots as claimed this gives the High Power, Long Range and F-Class shooters very inexpensive but fully competitive option.

Artful

07-28-2015, 12:36 AM

As I stated earlier I know five people that have ordered these. The first one came in. First the negatives. Even at 2 1/4 pounds the trigger has a little creep and the butt plate does not adjust up and down. After that it is all good.

So just need to find the right aftermarket adjustable butt plate
http://www.morganrecoilpad.com/14-premium-curved-recoil-pad#
http://l.yimg.com/kb/ys-141826158667177/dscn2045-3.jpeg
or
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/bisley-Adjustable-Recoil-Pad-Shotgun-Alloy-Rubber-extension-rifle/161630566397?_trksid=p2054897.c100204.m3164&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20140407115239%26meid%3D9fb0184fff274f3db95 3d185d565237f%26pid%3D100204%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D23%2 6mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D170570010943
http://ant-supplies.co.uk/siteimages/BISLEY-ADJUSTABLE-RUBBER-BUTTPLATE-PRO.jpg

And wait for either a smith to figure out the tweeks or Timney to come up with replacement trigger...

Hey, can you get him to measure the distance between the screws that hold on the recoil pad?

lawboy

07-29-2015, 04:43 PM

These will sell like hotcakes regardless of whether the barrels are good. At that price point, a replacement barrel is cheap enough. Frankly, many people will buy them fully intending to replace the barrel before even using it. Ruger was smart enough to make the barrels easily replaceable. This rifle is going to be a huge success for Ruger. That is my prediction.

Clay M

07-29-2015, 05:03 PM

I believe the barrels are good.
I have a Ruger #1 in .204 Ruger that will shoot 1/2 MOA somedays, but it is a quirky #1

I also have a newer Ruger Hawkeye International in .308 win.

It will shoot about 3/4 MOA for three fast shots .The barrel being hot.

If the test of the Ruger Precision Rifle for the American Rifleman in 6.5 Creedmoor will shoot around 1/2 MOA with factory ammo, then the barrels are good.

I wouldn't say they are like a Krieger barrel ,but for a production rifle ,they are very good barrels.

I would not hesitate to buy one if it were what I wanted.

jrap

07-30-2015, 09:44 AM

It's a nice rifle but I'd still take a 700 over it. With or without a chassis

Clay M

07-30-2015, 05:55 PM

I would like to have another Rem 40XB or Winchester 52D in .22LR.Those were the guns I trained on growing up.

I have a very nice Win Mod 70 target rifle in .308win. It will shoot as good as I can.

MBTcustom

07-31-2015, 07:51 AM

Price is right fellers. There's a LGS here running a sale this weekend. You can have your choice of the 308 or the 6.5 Cree for $999
I need another rifle like I need a speeding ticket, but that right there is tempting!

dragon813gt

07-31-2015, 09:32 AM

snowwolfe

07-31-2015, 11:09 AM

This rifle is going to create problems for the game wardens here. Semis are illegal for hunting use. I'd expect anyone using one of these in the field to be stopped and questioned by the wardens. There will be people using them because it's an easy transition if you shoot ARs all the time.

If a game warden can not tell the difference between a bolt and a semi they should stay in the office all day.

Have any of you left handed shooters tried holding or shooting one of these rifles? I wonder how the adjustable stock fits for a lefty.

dragon813gt

07-31-2015, 11:48 AM

If a game warden can not tell the difference between a bolt and a semi they should stay in the office all day.

So at 100+ yards you'd be able to tell the difference between this rifle and a standard AR? Of course they can tell when inspecting the rifle. This is going to cause some issues here is all I was saying. W/ next to no bolt action ARs currently being used in the field a factory offering like this is going to open the door for them. Won't be an issue in most places but I already see the confrontations coming.

M-Tecs

07-31-2015, 11:56 AM

PA is the only state that I am aware of that doesn't allow semi-autos rifles for hunting. How much of a problem was it for the wardens with the Remington pumps verse the Remingtion autos?

dragon813gt

07-31-2015, 01:30 PM

Semis are allowed for shotguns. This is a problem that exists in PA but it will effect me personally.

Potsy

07-31-2015, 02:30 PM

I've thought for years about putting together a "heavier" LR rig. Usually thinking about a Manners T4A with the Minis Chassis some kind of 700 footprinted action in it.

Then this Ruger came along for a third or less of the price.

I'll own one eventually. Probably a .243, at least in the beginning. It'll take awhile for me to save the scratch for the rifle and scope (thinking Burris XTR), but that'll just give me time to see what the aftermarket does in terms of barrels and triggers.

Probably shouldn't say it here, but it'll prolly never see a cast boolit.

There's about a 17 page thread on these over on Snipershide with plenty of range testing. Looks like they hammer pretty well.

I'll agree it's not for everybody. It's not nearly as pretty as my two #1's. Though I don't think it's any uglier than some of the current production model #1's with pine (looking) stocks and a "parkerized" looking blue I've seen lately.
That's the great thing about guns. It's all pretty subjective. I can own pretty walnut and blue guns, and ugly adjustable plastic guns and like them both. Though I never did understand a big gawking sticker on the side of a walnut stock.

As far as a game warden not recognizing it for a bolt rifle, as I say more and more, 'thank God I live in Tennessee". No silly semi auto gun laws and most of our Game Wardens actually knew a semi auto from a bolt gun before they became a Game Warden. Lots of them will wind up owning one of the new Rugers, so recognition at distance shouldn't be an issue.

snowwolfe

07-31-2015, 02:43 PM

So at 100+ yards you'd be able to tell the difference between this rifle and a standard AR? Of course they can tell when inspecting the rifle. This is going to cause some issues here is all I was saying. W/ next to no bolt action ARs currently being used in the field a factory offering like this is going to open the door for them. Won't be an issue in most places but I already see the confrontations coming.

Who cares if they can't tell at 100 + yards? They can get out their spy scope or get off there *** and walk over to where you are and look at the rifle. Why would anyone be paranoid that a game warden wants to check out their rifle to see if it is a semi or bolt?

dragon813gt

07-31-2015, 02:55 PM

Who cares if they can't tell at 100 + yards? They can get out their spy scope or get off there *** and walk over to where you are and look at the rifle. Why would anyone be paranoid that a game warden wants to check out their rifle to see if it is a semi or bolt?

Come hunt here and then tell me the same thing. I love when people comment that are out of area. A good portion of the wardens here are pricks. We try to avoid an interaction at all costs. I have nothing to hide so it's not like I will be fined. But they have ruined a few hunts for myself as well as friends and family. They don't care about remaining silent when walking to where you're at.

I guess I shouldn't have brought it up because this doesn't effect most of you. But for people hunting in PA it poses a potential problem for at least a year or so. Not all wardens keep up on what's new in the firearms world. And as the laws are written here there is a good chance you will be stopped if you have an AR slung over your shoulder when hunting. Even though there have been manually operated upper receivers available for some time now.

snowwolfe

07-31-2015, 03:12 PM

Come hunt here and then tell me the same thing. I love when people comment that are out of area.

I was born and raised in PA so I hunted there for many years. Still have family there that hunts also.
So, I have hunted there and can tell you the same thing.

Artful

07-31-2015, 03:42 PM

PA is the only state that I am aware of that doesn't allow semi-autos rifles for hunting. How much of a problem was it for the wardens with the Remington pumps verse the Remingtion autos?

Semis are allowed for shotguns. This is a problem that exists in PA but it will effect me personally.

He didn't say shotguns...
http://www.remington.com/~/media/Images/Firearms/Centerfire/Model-750/Model-750-Woodmaster/750-prod.ashx?w=570&bc=ffffff
750 auto
http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2012/04/02/355057_02_remington_742_woodsmaster_30_0_640.jpg
742
http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/4894134305/9607692/740%20002.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg
740

Pumps
760
http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/1721082224/8996787/dscf0228.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg
7600
http://www.35cal.com/gunpics/my7600carbine_35whelen.jpg

http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/12240/12499689_3.jpg?v=8CEEB2BD107F7A0

Come hunt here and then tell me the same thing. I love when people comment that are out of area. A good portion of the wardens here are pricks. We try to avoid an interaction at all costs. I have nothing to hide so it's not like I will be fined. But they have ruined a few hunts for myself as well as friends and family. They don't care about remaining silent when walking to where you're at.

And whose fault is this? - get name's / badge numbers - call complain to those in personnel dept about the customer service you are receiving - they are your employee's - yes they enforce the laws but how they do so is up to their supervisors and the legislator - talk to them to correct bad behavior.

snowwolfe

07-31-2015, 06:27 PM

I need something new and never owned a 6.5 Creedmoor so contacted my dealer and he will put my name on one when he gets some more in a week or two (if I am lucky). Normally I do not buy right hand weapons as I am a lefty but with all the adjustments in the stock it might be a good fit.
Besides. shooting a rifle off the bench or on a monopod sometimes is easier using a bolt on the same side as the cheek weld.

Four Fingers of Death

08-01-2015, 04:49 AM

A 1 in 10" twist for the .308W.....shame. A 1 in 12" twist would have been much better for use cast bullet shooters.

Larry Gibson

Everyone seems to have a hard on for heavy jacketed bullets these days. Hard to get a 223 that doesn't have a 1 in 8" twist.

Clay M

08-01-2015, 09:09 PM

Everyone seems to have a hard on for heavy jacketed bullets these days. Hard to get a 223 that doesn't have a 1 in 8" twist.

The .223 will perform best at 1000 yds with about an 80 gr bullet.
The 1in 8" should be about right.
So I guess it depends on what someone wants to do with their .223.
If I had a serious target rifle built for the caliber it would probably have the 1in 8" twist.

I have notice a lot of people here test their cast bullet loads at 50yds.
I am not sure why they do that .Most bullets don't really stabilize well until you get to 100 + yds. After I sight in, I test all my cast bullet rifle loads at 100 and 200 yds.If they will not shoot well at 100yds then I work more on load.
development.
I test all my magnum handgun loads at 100 yds as well.

A good many rifles will shoot well at 100 yds. Check them at 200 or 300 then you will know you have.
My best .308 target rifle will hit golf balls consistently at 300yds.With match grade bullets of course.

rbt50

08-02-2015, 01:46 AM

I have more guns now then I need, but i guess i can make room for one more. i am thinking 6.5 or 243

liliysdad

08-02-2015, 11:29 PM

Everyone seems to have a hard on for heavy jacketed bullets these days. Hard to get a 223 that doesn't have a 1 in 8" twist.

Because it simply works better.

Larry Gibson

08-04-2015, 01:41 PM

Everyone seems to have a hard on for heavy jacketed bullets these days. Hard to get a 223 that doesn't have a 1 in 8" twist.

The stupidity is most of those are on short barreled M4 wannabes. 99.9999999% of the time elcheapo blasting M193 ammo with 55 gr bullets is used in them...... Sure makes a lot of sense. .......

I see several rifle makers have gone 12" twists for the .308W. The 175 gr match bullets are the bullets of choice these days for long range and the 12" twist 26 - 28" length barrels have proven best. The exception being Palma rifles in .308W with 145 - 155 gr bullets. The 13 & 14" twist barrelsof 27 -31" length excel there.

Larry Gibson

cainttype

08-19-2015, 10:53 AM

I'm curious to see how long it will take before aftermarket barrels in large bores arrive... I imagine a carbine length 458 SOCOM, 450 Bushmaster, 45 Raptor, or any thumper could be very tempting as an easy swap option for a multi-purpose rifle...
6.5, 308, and .458 capabilities would seem to leave very little uncovered, except game more suited to 22 long rifle.

TXGunNut

08-29-2015, 04:19 PM

I think the folks at Ruger have done their usual excellent job of making a good quality precision rifle for the masses. A beginning precision shooter won't benefit much from having the best rifle on the line; fewer dollars spent on the rifle means more dollars available for powder, primers and bullets.
Quite honestly I have no use for this rifle or any of it's type but I think they have a winner here. I hope it gets more young folks involved in the shooting sports, something we will all benefit from.

Love Life

08-29-2015, 04:47 PM

I believe Ruger as done a decent job, and it'll be nice to bring many more members into the fold of long range shooting. The hope is they'll practice and become proficient.

I'm not a fan of chassis systems, or anything that have metal hand guards or forends. Skin on metal contact in uber cold is no good.

MBTcustom

08-29-2015, 11:14 PM

JSH

08-31-2015, 01:55 PM

I have read most of the way through this thread. Those that think it is ugly, well that is hard to disagree with. It is a tool made for a specific purpose. It wasn't really marketed for a hunting rifle, though one could use it if they wanted.
My savage F/TR 308 could be used for hunting, but I have proper tools for specific jobs.
Jeff

rfd

09-23-2015, 08:37 AM

it's all good, one way or another as one man's ceiling is another man's floor.

this new ruger offering will sell to the masses because it has a new millennium tacticool look and a relatively cheap price point.

i have one lazy man's rifle, don't need another.

my firearm tastes are more on the holy black side, with bpcr and front loaders in mind, and this is my idea of a tacticool outfit, a musket no less, for vittles or battle, circa mid 18th century ... :cool:

http://i.imgur.com/GQrn4XM.jpg

Artful

10-27-2015, 06:23 AM

So people on internet reporting their experience with RPR are shooting some darn nice groups out of the box. I'm seriously thinking of putting in on the list of future wants.

Chris's 308 at 100
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5723/21504214363_f7e6d7a4c4_b.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5763/22125338945_8998bd270a_b.jpg

First rounds thru a 6.5 RPR
https://jggunsmith.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/wpid-20150727_174453.jpg
2930FPS and Hornady's listed velocity for this load is 2910FPS

nekshot

10-27-2015, 08:05 AM

shucks, that aint fair!!! We used to work long and hard to get those type of groubs and when you did you felt proud, like you accomplished something. Now Joe Shmoe can buy a counter gun and out shoot me!! Aint fair!

rfd

10-27-2015, 08:11 AM

yep, an over-the-counter "lazy man's rifle" that anyone can shoot down crows at 300 yards. :bigsmyl2:

dragon813gt

10-27-2015, 09:33 AM

And yet people complain about modern firearms and their manufacturing techniques. This rifle should be an impossibility because it's not steel and wood and made w/ modern inferior manufacturing processes :rolleyes:

Love Life

10-27-2015, 09:42 AM

I'm waiting the smiths who are burning the midnight oil to make these into an easy switch barrel. Not quite AI AT status, but several thousand dollars cheaper.

Artful

10-29-2015, 01:07 AM

I'm waiting the smiths who are burning the midnight oil to make these into an easy switch barrel. Not quite AI AT status, but several thousand dollars cheaper.

While Ruger is not currently offering accessory barrels, changing one would be easy for someone with AR barrel changing expertise;
a new barrel, headspace gauge, a smooth jawed bench vise and an AR standard barrel nut wrench would get the job done.

What you looking for - interupted threads on the barrel/receiver?

EDG

11-08-2015, 12:24 AM

It is not chambered in a true long range round nor is it chambered in the the 5.56....
The ninja shooters will want one or the other - not the sensible stuff that it is chambered for.

liliysdad

11-25-2015, 12:13 AM

It is not chambered in a true long range round nor is it chambered in the the 5.56....
The ninja shooters will want one or the other - not the sensible stuff that it is chambered for.

No true long range round? The 243 and the 6.5 both have the chops to do well over 1000yd...

Artful

11-25-2015, 12:24 PM

It is not chambered in a true long range round nor is it chambered in the the 5.56....
The ninja shooters will want one or the other - not the sensible stuff that it is chambered for.

Mike shoots 223 at 1000 yds and provided the wind is still hits real good.

my 243 gets to 1000, so does my 308
- what cartridge are you using to do long range? and how far are you shooting?

- I'll admit I have a 300 win mag being threaded for my swap barrel
as we type but I doubt it will shoot better than my 308 at 1000 yds

sparky45

12-09-2015, 06:26 PM

Any more reports? I sure would like it if Santa saw fit to gift wrap one in 6.5 .

SteveR51

12-10-2015, 01:44 PM

After waiting for 4 months I finally received my Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor. BIG PROBLEM. The folding stock is very loose when open. I can insert a 0.020" shim in the hinge which gives well over 1/8" of play at the butt. The Canadian Ruger distributor says this is within specs! HAH! I have complained to Ruger, waiting for a response.

sparky45

12-10-2015, 07:00 PM

Thanks, that's helpful.

S. Galbraith

12-13-2015, 11:50 AM

The more reports I hear on the RPR the more I want one. It is just a matter of when to buy, and in what caliber.

Artful

12-19-2015, 02:49 AM

http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/story/1616372-sniper-s-hide-complete-ruger-upgrade-review

http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/story/1613039-ruger-precision-rifle-upgrade-project

Elkins45

12-25-2015, 08:40 PM

I like the premise, but as a lefty I find the execution lacking. The bolt is on the wrong side.

jonp

12-26-2015, 06:56 AM

Just got my January issue of Gun Tests and what do you know? They test out the Ruger Precision against a Howa 1500 and a Savage Model 12 LRP all in 6.5 Creedmore.

Price: Howa 1500 pkg with scope - $1,000
Savage: - $1252
Ruger: - $1399

All shot well and MOA with the Savage the best averaging about .5 MOA.

JSnover

12-28-2015, 10:11 AM

A good friend of mine bought one in 6.5 and loves it and he's not your typical gun shop commando. I handled it yesterday, might have a chance to fire it Wednesday. Seems like a pretty nice package so far.
About the 6.5 Creedmoor... Has anyone heard of barrels wearing out prematurely? I know if you hot-rod your load data you can expect that but I have heard rumors that even at factory specs it is a barrel burner, even though ballistically it's pretty near 6.5x55, which hasn't been accused of ruining rifles, as far as I know.

JSnover

12-28-2015, 10:17 AM

sparky45

12-28-2015, 11:24 AM

I like the premise, but as a lefty I find the execution lacking. The bolt is on the wrong side.
And remember, us Lefty's are the only ones in our Right mind.
BTW, RPR is my next shooter.

jonp

12-29-2015, 08:41 AM

I'm seriously thinking of the Savage in 243. I have not seen that the 6.5 Creedmore can do anything the 243 can't do with the right bullet

sparky45

12-29-2015, 10:39 AM

I'm seriously thinking of the Savage in 243. I have not seen that the 6.5 Creedmore can do anything the 243 can't do with the right bullet

Check the ballistics again jonp, 6.5 Creedmoor has 308 and 243 beat @ distance in both terminal velocity and energy.

Artful

12-30-2015, 12:19 AM

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r191/mdesign_album/CaliberData.png (http://s144.photobucket.com/user/mdesign_album/media/CaliberData.png.html)

jonp

12-30-2015, 07:27 AM

Check the ballistics again jonp, 6.5 Creedmoor has 308 and 243 beat @ distance in both terminal velocity and energy.

Here is the article that has swayed me beside my being able to buy 243 about everywhere and form the cases from 308 for reloading. http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html

MBTcustom

12-30-2015, 09:38 AM

Here is the article that has swayed me beside my being able to buy 243 about everywhere and form the cases from 308 for reloading. http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html

Here's the quote from Gardner which rings truer and more practical than the rest of the article:

.243 Win For Tactical Comps We askedGA Precision's (http://www.ga-precision.net/) George Gardner why he chose .243 Winchester for his Tactical Comp Gun. He replied, "Why would I run anything else? Think about it. I'm sending a .585 BC 115 at 3150 fps--that'll shoot inside the 6XC and .260 Rem with ease. I'm pretty sure I have found the Holy Grail of Comp Rifles. There are no brass issues like you can get forming .260 brass. I don't have to worry about doughnuts, reaming necks--none of that. And the choice in brass is great too--run Lapua if you want max reloads and great accuracy. Run Winchester if you're on a budget, and so you won't cry if you lose some cases in a match. I can get 10-round mags, and feeding is 100% reliable, since the case is identical to a .308 except for the neck. Accuracy-wise, I don't think I'm giving up anything to the .260 Rem or the 6XC." We then asked George if he'd considered using a .243 AI instead: "Yeah, the cases look cool with that 40° shoulder, but I think the standard .243 feeds a little better. And I don't think I really need the extra performance of an improved case. Run the ballistics for my load--115 moly DTAC at 3150 fps. You've got less windage than a 2950 fps 6.5-284, with cheaper brass, cheaper dies, cheaper bullets, and less recoil."

Everything he says is absolutely true, and spoken like a man who can swap barrels any time he wants.
Earlier in the article, the author mentions low barrel life and says it may be less than 1500 rounds. That's being generous. I built a 243 for a fellow who burned it out in 840 rounds, and when I say burned it out, I mean a 6" roast.
Saying that a cleaning regiment will prolong barrel life is like saying that waxing a 16 year old's car will help the tires last longer. Sorry. Doesn't work that way. The only way to get longer barrel life is to quit throwing slow powder through such a small hole at such high pressure.

All I'm saying is that you pay the piper one way or the other. I'm a gunsmith, and I build extremely precise rifles for people all over the country. if anybody insists on a rifle in 243, 6.5-284, 7mmRemMag, or 300Win, 300Weatherby, or 300RUM, I tell them to plan for the next barrel. Buy a brick of 1000 primers and every time you finish a box, throw $60 in a jar. By the time you finish 1000 rounds, your barrel will be toast, and you'll have money ready for a new blank, and installation.

Yes 6mm bullets are cheap, but they better be too. When you consider your cost per shot, figure in barrel life as well. Run the numbers for each caliber and see what you get then.

rbt50

12-30-2015, 12:31 PM

got mine after a four month wait. i have only had time to sight In the scope with factory load but after the new year will start working on reloads. the gun is tight with no safety problems.
one thing I like about this gun is any one can change out the barrel in about 20 min's.

sparky45

12-30-2015, 12:56 PM

Here's the quote from Gardner which rings truer and more practical than the rest of the article:

Everything he says is absolutely true, and spoken like a man who can swap barrels any time he wants.
Earlier in the article, the author mentions low barrel life and says it may be less than 1500 rounds. That's being generous. I built a 243 for a fellow who burned it out in 840 rounds, and when I say burned it out, I mean a 6" roast.
Saying that a cleaning regiment will prolong barrel life is like saying that waxing a 16 year old's car will help the tires last longer. Sorry. Doesn't work that way. The only way to get longer barrel life is to quit throwing slow powder through such a small hole at such high pressure.

All I'm saying is that you pay the piper one way or the other. I'm a gunsmith, and I build extremely precise rifles for people all over the country. if anybody insists on a rifle in 243, 6.5-284, 7mmRemMag, or 300Win, 300Weatherby, or 300RUM, I tell them to plan for the next barrel. Buy a brick of 1000 primers and every time you finish a box, throw $60 in a jar. By the time you finish 1000 rounds, your barrel will be toast, and you'll have money ready for a new blank, and installation.

Yes 6mm bullets are cheap, but they better be too. When you consider your cost per shot, figure in barrel life as well. Run the numbers for each caliber and see what you get then.

David Tubb, with his Tubb 2000 shoots 6XC and he is pretty competitive some would say.

Love Life

12-30-2015, 01:29 PM

David Tubb, with his Tubb 2000 shoots 6XC and he is pretty competitive some would say.

Yes he is.

Mr. Gardner's line of thought is that if you don't want to step up to the 6XC, then the lowly .243 Winchester is a competitive cartridge.

I like the .243. At the time it made more sense than the 6XC for me.

If anybody is considering the .243 for a long range or precision rifle, I say go for it and have a good time.

Artful

12-30-2015, 01:29 PM

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/facts-about-barrel-life/
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/bbltoast01a.jpg

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/overbore-cartridges-defined-by-formula/

OVERBORE INDEX Charthttp://accurateshooter.net/Blog/overboreindex2011.png

Like in Automobiles there's a price for performance.
I've seen more .223 barrels shot out than .243 - why, because
of user abuse. Every barrel has a finite number of shots in it, you know that it's consumable, just like a tire.

What causes excessive wear? Well in Tires - Burnout's, Overloaded, Under Inflation, Out of Balance, Off Camber. What do we know about shooting abuse. Fast shooting, Seating the bullet so flame cutting occurs, Under size bullets might promote that as well, Using the wrong powders, incorrect cleaning technique. But usually the thing you see is Throat Erosion
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2012/07/09/practical-tips-to-extend-barrel-life/
Severe wear to the lands and grooves
(likely only a few thousandths to a hundredth of an inch)

Most barrels can be set back that 0.100" and
rechambered and work on.

Look at the list of overbore cartridges - notice the 270 winchester is first one listed - but notice hardly any one says the 270 is a barrel burner? Why, because most 270 shooters don't rapid fire them and seldom shoot huge numbers of shots in a single day. We have all seen surplus military guns 50-100-150 years old and rifling still looking pretty good. Some of those had a pretty fair number of rounds fired but it was seldom on competitive courses, so only when targets presented themselves.

As for the 243 - I like mine - shoot it at 1,000 yd steel but don't over shoot it - let it cool down - seldom more than 5 in a row before resting it (and me). Still on the original Remington barrel - does it still clover leaf the 5 at 100 like it did at one time
- No. but that may be wear or just maybe age on me. :violin:

So what is a worn out a barrel supposed to be shooting like?
If the rifle originally shot 0.200" groups and now is shooting 0.500" is it worn out?

It would be to a benchrest shooter - would I like his old barrel - you bet as that barrel will hold 6" group at 1000 (like I wish I could).

You have to think of it as in terms of what you want the gun to do.
Shooting at Deer is different than shooting for groups.

Love Life

12-30-2015, 02:27 PM

Very good write up Artful. When my barrel went up in flames, it was like somebody flipped a switch. Went from shooting 10 shot 1/2 MOA groups to barely being able to keep them in an inch for 10 shots.

The .243 can be hard on barrels if shot hard and fast, which is what I did. I have never regretted the caliber choice.

jonp

12-30-2015, 04:14 PM

David Tubb, with his Tubb 2000 shoots 6XC and he is pretty competitive some would say.

From the article I linked to:

With enough powder capacity to drive the 0.585 BC 115gr DTACs at 3150+ fps, the .243 Win is an outstanding long-range cartridge. George Gardner of GA Precision (http://www.ga-precision.net) recently won the long-range Shumway Cup segment of the 2006 Snipers' Hide Cup shooting a straight .243 Win. In so doing, George bested Terry Cross (.260 Rem) and David Tubb (6XC), so you can see the .243 is a top performer at long distances. In fact, in terms of Wind Drift (http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html#drift), a .243 running 115s at 3150 fps beats both the .260 Rem (2850 fps) and the 6.5-284 (2950 fps) running 142 MatchKings.

Artful

12-30-2015, 06:51 PM

In fact, in terms of Wind Drift (http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html#drift), a .243 running 115s at 3150 fps beats both the .260 Rem (2850 fps) and the 6.5-284 (2950 fps) running 142 MatchKings.

Ah, you might want to look at post #129 again

MBTcustom

12-30-2015, 07:34 PM

For the record, I only brought up what I did to make sure people are thinking about barrel wear. It does happen with overbore cartridges and it usually sneaks up on your blind side and jerks the rug out from under you.
I was not counselling against 6mm cartridges, I was cautioning the membership to consider barre life as part of the shooting equation because any 6mm that's competitive at the ranges you are talking about is going to be a died in the wool barrel burner.
I'm the guy who's going to be putting new pipes on the guns when the barrels cease to impress, and I have a pretty good handle on how this really works regardless of how everybody hopes it will work.
All's I'm saying is if you buy a hummer, you're going to need to figure your gas into your monthly payment because you PAY for PERFORMANCE. That doesn't make it any less great for the purpose. It just means that there's a lot of added cost in the long run that should be considered, unless you plan to leave the Hummer in the garage, or the barrel burner in the safe.
I hope that's clear enough.
Personally, I think the 6.5X284 is about the best thing since sliced bread, but if I ever build one, I'm buying two barrels before I even start.
Right now, I'm working on a 300Win Mag that I built for myself that will shoot aspirins at 200 yards. I've got 150 rounds through the barrel, and that means it's 1/10th gone already. I'm saving for a new barrel, because I'm probably going to need it by this time next year. I don't have any illusions about it. I'm going to roast that sucker, and even if I get 1 or 2 hundred more shots after my projected 1500 round burn out is complete, why dig it out? I fill up my truck BEFORE it runs out of gas ya know? I'm not tor up about it. With high performance cartridges, barrels are expendables that must be replaced, and that's just the way it is.

vzerone

12-30-2015, 07:54 PM

Cryro's a barrel add a wee bit more life to it. Some the newer coating add a lot more life to them. I wouldn't see cryo'ing affecting accuracy, but the coating may be another story. Like mentioned though a barrel burner caliber is eventually going to eat that barrel up. BTW I've read some military tests of the coatings and it was amazing. I have a friend that's a competition shooter and praire dog hunter. He and his brother have two identical rifles in 243 and have shot the same ammo in addition to the exact same number of rounds. My friend had his barrel cryro'ed. His brother didn't. He said there was a pretty good difference between the bores when viewed with a bore scope meaning his barrel didn't wear as much as his brothers. That's made him a believer.

Love Life

12-30-2015, 08:02 PM

I have read of barrels being given the melonite treatment to increase life. However, I really haven't seen anything that make me believe it is worth the cost, and it is hard on tools if you need a set back.

IIRC Krieger Cryo treats their barrels.

silverjay

12-31-2015, 01:51 AM

I have just under 1,000 rounds through a 6.5 creedmoor Lilja barrel. Running 142 SMK's at 2,866 fps with a 26" barrel. Throat has worn 0.004" from original.

1845greyhounds

12-31-2015, 02:21 AM

Everything he says is absolutely true, and spoken like a man who can swap barrels any time he wants.
Earlier in the article, the author mentions low barrel life and says it may be less than 1500 rounds. That's being generous. I built a 243 for a fellow who burned it out in 840 rounds, and when I say burned it out, I mean a 6" roast...

Yes 6mm bullets are cheap, but they better be too. When you consider your cost per shot, figure in barrel life as well. Run the numbers for each caliber and see what you get then.

Goodsteel has it right. 243's are barrel burners, especially if you shoot 115's at 3150. That's hot.

I understand the allure of shooting something with really low wind drift, but what does it matter if your gun won't hold a group after 800 rounds? You're better off shooting something with decent barrel life (ie 308 win, 260 rem, ect) and working on your wind reading ability.

jonp

12-31-2015, 07:59 AM

Ah, you might want to look at post #129 again

There might be a difference between the 105gr in the chart and the 115gr/loading the writer was talking about. He seemed pretty specific about what he was comparing.

The talk of 243 here about burning out barrels seems to assume I'm going to head towards 3,000 fps.

MBTcustom

12-31-2015, 10:04 AM

You have to consider everything that goes into a barrel and the cartridge you are using. The recipe for a fast burnout is:
1. fast twist rate
2. slow powders
3. heavy bullets

That's like the three things that roast tires are fast starts, fasts stops, and hard corners. The common theme: performance!

Now, you take your 243, and you put a 1-12 twist in there, and shoot 55-65 grain bullets in it, and intentionally keep your pressure low with 4895, or 4350, you'd be shocked at the barrel life you get, and how well it shoots even after it gets burned.
Change that twist rate to 1-8, change the bullets to 105-115 grain wind cheaters, and push for as much velocity as you can get with powder that burns like a wet rick of wood, and things get a little hairy.

Now, you consider that the Ruger precision rifle in 243 is twisted 1-7.7? Think about what I'm saying.............
I've been here, I've seen this before..........
You've already got a twist rate that is faster than fast, everybody's talking about pushing the heavies out to 1000 yards, what powder are you going to do that with exactly? Retumbo? H1000? IMR7828? If that barrel makes it past 1250 rounds before a dramatic change in accuracy due to throat erosion happens, then Ruger has figured out how to cheat physics. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it sure doesn't seem likely, and if we were taking bets, I'd lay money on a 1000 round burnout.

If you want to preserve barrel life, I'd highly recomend shooters stay with Varget, 4895, and 4350. Just my opinion.

Love Life

12-31-2015, 10:27 AM

Tim,

I can only assume you are talking about my .243. You also have to look at how I shot it, and why I shot it that way.

sparky45

12-31-2015, 11:11 AM

MBTcustom

12-31-2015, 11:51 AM

Tim,

I can only assume you are talking about my .243. You also have to look at how I shot it, and why I shot it that way.

Yours was one in particular (and the fastest, and most epic burnout I've personally witnessed to date I might add), but I rebarrel for people all the time, and one common reason is because of burnout. I always ask them to tell me how it happened and what were the circumstances surrounding the burnout. The stories are remarkably predictable, and the throats don't lie.
One interesting point that your rifle demonstrated was that even though you roasted it in short order, the performance you got out of it in the interim was nothing short of astounding. You didn't waste a barrel. We built a high performance rifle, and it performed very highly indeed. If you were wanting to kick tail in the LR game, I dare say you would be thinking "geez that was awesome! Lets go again!" eh?

I wish I could post pictures of what I see in my borescope, because my 300WM is already starting to show the signs of what is going to be it's demise after 150 shots. I figure it's par for the course. I built an overbore rifle, and I know whats coming, and I'm planning on it. Once it goes, I'm not going to spend a lot of components trying to get it back. I'll throw it in the rack and screw on a new one. No big deal. That's the cost of doing business with a barrel burner. (shrug)
At best, I'd say my 300WM is good for a brick and a half of primers at best.

This 243 RPR might last 2 bricks if you're lucky, but I seriously doubt youll get to 3 if you're looking at 1000 yard performance.

Personally, looking at the options on the table with the RPR, I think I'd be looking at the 6.5CM (or possibly the 308 if 99% of shots would be made this side of 800 yards) The 6.5 might get you 3 bricks of primers. Too bad they don't chamber this rifle in 30-06. If you're looking for long sustained accuracy at 1000 yards, the 30-06 is probably the most economical cartridge for the job from a barrel life point of view. I'd say 5 bricks or more.

waksupi

12-31-2015, 12:03 PM

Keep in mind that once the throat is burned out from jacketed bullets, it may well be a very good cast bullet rifle.

MBTcustom

12-31-2015, 12:07 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^truth^^^^^^^^^^^^
But I doubt they'll be shooting at 1000 yards anymore eh?

waksupi

12-31-2015, 12:26 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^truth^^^^^^^^^^^^
But I doubt they'll be shooting at 1000 yards anymore eh?

It would be interesting to try!

Smoke4320

12-31-2015, 12:56 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^truth^^^^^^^^^^^^
But I doubt they'll be shooting at 1000 yards anymore eh?

and then is born the Ruger artillery rifle :bigsmyl2:

Artful

01-02-2016, 01:07 AM

http://www.shootingtimes.com/files/2010/09/stcast_040306e.jpg

Mike’s cast-bullet handloads are capable of fine accuracy. The .30-06 2.00-inch group is at 100 yards while the .40-65 3.5-inch group is at 300yards.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_stcast_040306/

Accurate Shooting With Cast Bullets From 100 To 1000 Yards

by Mike Venturino | January 4th, 2011
Mike’s immersion in Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Silhouette and Long Range Black Powder Target shooting has helped him fine-tune his skills at bulletcasting for optimal handloads.

By Mike Venturino

Back in my college years I was poorer than the proverbial church mouse, so there was no big time partying or traipsing off to Florida during spring breaks for this young shooter and handloader. What I did with the small amounts of money I could scrape up was buy some quality guns and the powder and primers needed to shoot them. As for bullets, I made all those myself.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/files/2010/09/stcast_040306a.jpg

(From left to right) .30-40 Krag, .303 British, .30-06, .40-65, .45-70, .45-90, .45-100

For my rifle shooting I managed to find a Springfield Model 1903A3 .30-06 still in full battle dress. And for a few dollars I acquired a Lyman No. 311291 mold with which to cast 170-grain roundnose gas-checked bullets. I fired thousands of rounds through that rifle, and not even one of them was a factory load or jacketed bullet. It didn’t take me long to realize that with the peep sights it was equipped with, I could get my home-cast bullets grouping within a couple of inches at 100 yards. Great fun was had in experimenting with alloy hardness and different powder and primer types.

With that background it’s no wonder that even though I can now afford to buy bullets today I still have an extensive bullet mold collection. I can cast bullets for rifles as small as .22 caliber and as large as .58 caliber. It doesn’t seem to surprise anyone to hear of good cast bullet accuracy being delivered by big-bore rifles, but I’ve experienced some fine grouping with cast bullets even from .22 centerfire rifles such as the .222 Remington and .220 Swift.

Right now I am loading cast bullets for a wide variety of rifles and shooting them at targets as close as 100 yards and as distant as 1000 yards. The cartridges those rifles are chambered for range from modern bottleneck, smokeless powder rounds to large-bore, straight-sided black powder rounds. To achieve success in reloading all these different cartridges with lead-alloy bullets I poured myself requires vastly different techniques and components. But the actual effort expended to prepare good cast-bullet rifle ammunition is just a bit more than when loading good jacketed bullet ammo. And the satisfaction gained from doing all this yourself is immeasurable.

My most recent shooting interest has been in bolt-action military rifles, so in my rifle racks sit U.S. Krags, Model 1903 Springfields, Model 1917 Enfields, and a modest assortment of foreign-made types. The amount of jacketed bullets fired through these bolt actions has been modest because I’ve been working up cast-bullet loads for all.

Conversely, my shooting passion for almost two decades has been competing in the NRA’s Black Powder Cartridge Rifle (BPCR) Silhouette game. And more recently I have joined those fellows shooting the NRA’s Long Range Black Powder Target matches.

For BPCR Silhouette the metallic targets are placed at 200, 300, 385, and 500 meters. Those sound like faraway targets, but consider that the Long Range matches are fired at paper targets placed at 800, 900, and 1000 yards! The target’s black bullseye is 44 inches wide, and its 10-ring is only 20 inches in diameter. Only lead-alloy bullets are allowed for both of these NRA-sanctioned shooting games. My competition rifles for these sports are one or another replica version of the Sharps Model 1874 or Remington Rolling Block. I have them in calibers such as .40-65, .45-70, .45-90, and .45-100. (I’m just getting around to working seriously with that latter cartridge.)

Hard Bullets

So let’s look at how to prepare good cast-bullet loads for these two vastly different requirements. With the smokeless powder ammunition I think that the harder the bullet the better. Not only are those bullets going to be driven to fairly high velocities (I use 1600 to 1800 fps as velocity parameters for my military rifles), but they also must withstand the rigors of being cycled from a magazine, up a feedramp, and into a chamber.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/files/2010/09/stcast_040306c.jpgCast rifle bullets are not just used for competing in BPCR matches. The author fires them in his old M1902 battle rifle as well.

A softer alloy than linotype is apt to be “grabby” in such a journey and at the least will be scratched and nicked. Therefore, for my bottleneck, smokeless powder shooting only linotype alloy is used. According to Lyman’s No. 48 reloading handbook linotype will have a Brinell Hardness Number (BHN) of 22. That’s about the hardest lead alloy one will commonly encounter.

Also, since a cast bullet fired from a bottleneck, smokeless powder cartridge is subjected to higher pressures, I believe they should be of gas-check design. The little gilding metal cups protect the bullet’s base from being battered by gases or smokeless powder granules. For this very reason most of the cast bullet designs sold by the major bullet mold manufacturers intended for smokeless powder shooting are cut to carry gas-checks. I highly recommend the gas-check be seated with the aid of Lyman’s little gas-check seating tool to ensure it is square with the bullet’s base.

As for exact bullet shape, very pointed spitzer-type cast bullets seldom give good service at my desired velocity levels while semipointed and roundnose bullets shoot very well in most rifles. And here is one more item based on my experience. Whenever possible, I like my cast bullets for this sort of shooting to be a bit heavier than the jacketed bullet weight normal for that caliber. For instance, in .30-06 150- to 180-grain jacketed bullets might be considered standard. For my .30-06 cast bullets I now prefer those from 180 to 215 grains. Admittedly without having any science to back up my opinion, I think that the heavier bullets make the relatively small smokeless powder charges burn at higher pressures and deliver better accuracy.

Want a good example of what I consider a fine smokeless powder, bottleneck cartridge cast bullet? Since I’m spending so much time working with .30-caliber military rifles, let’s look at that bore size. Lyman has two versions of the same bullet; one is meant for American .30 calibers, and the other is for European-type .30 calibers.

The first is No. 311299, meant to be sized about .309/.310 inch, and the latter is No. 314299, meant to be sized .313/.314 inch. Both have nominal weights of 200 grains when cast of Lyman’s No. 2 alloy formula, but from linotype mine weigh 190 grains for the smaller diameter one and 195 grains for the larger. These are semipointed bullets with a long bore-riding nose and short body containing two grease grooves. Bullet No. 311299 is fine for .30-40 Krag and .30-06 while No. 314299 serves excellently in the .303 British cartridge.

BPCR & Long Range Bullets
Now let’s look at the vastly different bullets useful for BPCR Silhouette and Long Range.

First off, forget the linotype alloy. Experience has proven that very hard cast bullets fired over blackpowder charges delivering velocities only in the 1150 to 1400 fps range can be accurate, but they leave excessive leading. A very hard bullet doesn’t obturate to seal the bore at blackpowder pressures, and therefore gas cuts past its base and leaves melted lead plated inside the barrel.

Almost universally, BPCR competitors are using blends of pure lead and pure tin in proportions of 1:20 to 1:30. The 1:30 alloy has a BHN of 9 while 1:20 alloy has a BHN of 10. I favor the 1:20 blend.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/files/2010/09/stcast_040306d.jpgMike’s current favorite cast rifle bullets for shooting from 100 to 1000 yards
include .30-, .40-, and .45-caliber bullets. (Left to Right) Lyman No. 311299 .30 Cal. 190-Gr. Semipointed, Lyman No. 314299 .30 Cal. 195-Gr. Semipointed, Brooks .40 Cal. 425-Gr. Semipointed, Brooks .45 Cal. 513-Gr. Creedmoor, Brooks .45 Cal. 530-Gr. Creedmoor, Brooks .45 Cal. 544-Gr. Creedmoor

The rules for these long-range BPCR matches do not allow gas-check-type bullets, so shooters protect the bullet’s bases in another way. We cut or buy wads that are placed between the powder charge and the bullet’s base. These come in many types, such as cardboard punched from ordinary tablet backing to commercial vegetable fiber and even plastic wads. In the old days I used to cut .030-inch cardboard wads myself, but since John Walters began selling his vegetable fiber wads I’ll never take wad punch in hand again. Walters’s wads come in all the correct sizes for blackpowder cartridge rifles and either in .030- or .060-inch thickness. I’ve settled on the latter for my shooting.

Most competitors shoot roundnose bullets of one form or another in the BPCR games, but at these low velocities sometimes a pointed bullet also will shoot well. Regardless, we like them heavy. In BPCR Silhouette the two most popular bore sizes are .40 and .45 caliber. For .40 caliber most shooters use bullets from 400 to 425 grains, and .45-caliber shooters like 500- to 550-grain bullets. In the NRA’s Long Range matches shooters almost universally use .45-caliber rifles and prefer bullets in the 520- to 570-grain weight range.

I mentioned that my favorite .30-caliber bullets had only two grease grooves. That is opposite of what we want with our BPCR bullets. There the bullet lubricant not only serves to keep the bullet from leaving lead fouling in the bore, but it helps keep the blackpowder fouling soft. Therefore, most of the BPCR bullets seen in competition have long bodies with four and five grease grooves.

And lastly, long-range target shooters want our bullets to be consistent. Conversely from the relatively short-range shooting I do with modern bolt actions where I like to use multiple-cavity molds to increase bullet production, I will only use single-cavity molds for long-range target competition. Most high-scoring competitors report that they weigh each and every bullet. My personal limits are that I keep my bullets within a plus/minus .3-grain spread, or a total spread of .6 grain. My 100-yard bullets for the various military rifles are not weighed at all.

As with the .30-caliber bullets, I’ll detail what I think are good designs for long-range target shooting with the BPCR. Most competitors in these two games use custom lathe-bored bullet molds, with the two most popular makers being Paul Jones and Steve Brooks. I should mention that I recently discovered a new maker by the name of Dave Mos.

My favorite .40-caliber BPCR Silhouette bullet is a Brooks “Turkey Killer” design of 425 grains (1:20 alloy) with pointed nose and four grease grooves. When shooting .45-caliber rifles in BPCR Silhouette I have been using Creedmoor-style roundnose bullets. These are a 513-grain bullet by Brooks or a similarly shaped 530-grain one from Mos. Both bullets have three very wide and deep grease grooves.

For the 800-, 900-, and 1000-yard matches I use another Creedmoor-style bullet that weighs 544 grains from a mold made by Steve Brooks. It is a little different than normal in that the diameter of the bullet for the top two grease grooves is the same diameter as the nose. That way it can be seated far out of the cartridge case, making more room for powder. I went this route because I wanted to make a .45-70 powerful enough for the Long Range matches and by seating the bullet so far out was able to increase the blackpowder charge almost 10 grains.

Instead of sizing those bullets used for long-range competition the molds are ordered to drop the bullets at the rifle’s barrel groove diameter. For instance, that is .408 inch for .40-65 and .458 inch for all .45 calibers. Then the bullets are run into lube/sizing dies slightly larger–.410 inch for the .40 caliber and .459 inch for .45 caliber. The lube is applied speedily, but the bullets are not touched by the die during the operation.

Artful

01-02-2016, 01:18 AM

Continued

Preparing The Case

When it comes to preparing the cartridge cases for reloading, the steps are the same for 100-yard and 1000-yard ammunition. I full-length size the brass, mainly because I have more than one rifle in each caliber and want to ensure easy chambering in all of them.

Next, the primer pockets are uniformed with a Sinclair Primer Pocket Uniformer. Last, the case mouths are expanded and belled with a Lyman M-Die. The M-Dies have a stepped stem.

The smaller part expands the inside of the cartridge case to a proper dimension to accept cast bullets, and the larger part bells the case mouth so that the bullet’s base can be started without damage. Lyman sells M-Dies for virtually all bore sizes from .22 to .50, and I consider them indispensable for all cast-bullet shooting.

CAST BULLET HANDLOADS FOR 100 YARDS

BULLET
POWDER
MUZZLE VELOCITY (fps)
VELOCITY VARIATION (fps)
300-yd. ACCURACY

(Type)
(Grs.)

.30-40 Krag, U.S. M1896 Springfield, 30-inch Barrel

Lyman No. 311299 190-gr. Semipointed
XMP-5744
22.0
1789
10
2.25

.303 British, SMLE No. 4 Mark 1 25-inch Barrel

Lyman No. 314299 195-gr. Semipointed
XMP-5744
22.0
1728
24
3.13

.30-06, U.S. M1903A3 Springfield, 24-inch barrel

Lyman No. 311299 190-gr. Semipointed
XMP-5744
25.0
1785
31
2.08

NOTES: Accuracy is the average of three five-shot groups fired froma sandbag benchrest at 100 yards. Velocity is the average of five rounds measured six feet from the guns muzzle

LONG RANGE CAST BULLET HANDLOADS

BULLET
POWDER
MUZZLE VELOCITY (fps)
VELOCITY VARIATION (fps)
300-yd. ACCURACY

(Type)
(Grs.)

.40-65 Lone Star Rolling Block, 32-inch Barrel

Brooks 425-gr. Semipointed
Swiss 1 1/2 Fg
57.0
1204
9
3.42

.45-70 C. Sharps Arms Model 1874, 32-inch Barrel

Brooks 513-gr. Creedmoor
Swiss 1/2 Fg
70.0
1212
13
4.33

Mos 530-gr. Creedmoor
Swiss 1 1/2 Fg
67.0
1167
15
4.08

Brooks 544-gr. Creedmor
Swiss FFFg
68.0
1254
10
4.21

.45-90 Shiloh Model 1874, 30-inch Barrel

Mos 530-gr. Creedmor
Swiss 1 1/2 Fg
78.0
1246
18
4.50

Brooks 544-gr. Creedmoor
Swiss 1 1/2 Fg
75.0
1208
13
3.88

NOTES: Accuracy is the average of three five-shot groups fired from a sandbag rest at 300 yards. Velocity is the average of 10 rounds measured six feet from the guns’ muzzles

When it comes time to put powder charges into the cases, I again use two very different methods. For the modern, bottleneck .30-caliber cartridges I simply drop the desired charge from a Redding Competition BR-30 powder measure. It holds the smokeless powder charges within a couple tenths of a grain, which is fine for 100-yard shooting.
For the blackpowder loads meant for long-range shooting I hand weigh each one to plus/minus .1 grain. Then I drop each of those hand-weighed powder charges down a 24-inch drop tube, taking about five seconds to trickle each one in. I don’t know why, but drop-tubed blackpowder charges burn more cleanly and consistently. And I should mention that this is not a new trick; the original Sharps Rifle Co. also marketed drop tubes among its other reloading tools.

Powders
I will include only a few words about powders for all this shooting because the range of choices is just so great. There are well over 100 different smokeless powders now, and blackpowders are available from here, Germany, and Switzerland. My choice for modern, bottleneck smokeless powder cartridges is Accurate Arms XMP-5744. It burns very consistently without needing any sort of case filler and has a small enough granule size that it powder measures well. For blackpowder shooting I have settled on Swiss 11/2 Fg for the NRA BPCR Silhouette game. For NRA Long Range Target shooting with the .45-70 I use Swiss FFFg because it gives the cartridge extra oomph. When firing the .45-90 cartridge in that game I return to Swiss 11/2 Fg.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/files/2010/09/stcast_040306f.jpgAccording to the author, case neck expanding and belling dies are required for constructing good-quality cast-bullet handloads.

Bullet seating
Now we get to the bullet seating step. For my modern bottleneck cartridges the bullet is seated in the normal manner in a standard seating die with all grease grooves covered, and then I apply a rather heavy crimp. That is to ensure the bullet stays in place during the sometimes rough travel from military rifle magazine into chamber. For my long-range blackpowder match ammunition each bullet is seated with the aid of a Redding micrometer adjustable Competition Seating Die. The spring-loaded inner sleeve of that die helps ensure the alignment of bullet to cartridge case. Before using these rounds in competition, I further check them with a Sinclair concentricity gauge. I find that my rounds seldom have more than .001 inch of run out.

Unlike with the modern bottleneck smokeless powder cartridges where I let the bullet’s crimping groove dictate the seating depth of the bullet, with the blackpowder match rounds I have invested considerable experimentation to determine seating depth. For instance, my Lone Star Rolling Block and Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 .40-65s give best groups with the 425-grain Brooks Turkey Killer bullet to be seated with one grease groove exposed.

My custom Remington Rolling Block and C. Sharps Arms Model 1874 .45-70s and my Shiloh Model 1874 Sharps .45-90 like the Brooks and Mos Postell bullets to be seated with all grease grooves covered. That C. Sharps Arms Model 1874 .45-70 is one I have won some awards with (but nary a first place yet!) in the 800-, 900-, and 1000-yard events. And I did the shooting with the Brooks 544-grain Creedmoor seated with two full grease grooves exposed.

After all is said and done, just how well does my 100- to 1000-yard ammunition shoot? I’ve enclosed some of my favorite loads as samples in the accompanying chart, but I’ll give these details. No major problem has been encountered in getting my 1903 Springfield .30-06s or the U.S. Krag .30-40 to give groups from 11/2 to 2 MOA at 100 yards. The British SMLE No. 4 Mark 1 .303 and the Model 1917 Enfields are more like 2 to 3 MOA shooters.

I won’t compete with one of my BPCR Long Range rifles unless it will deliver groups of about 11/2 MOA at 300 yards. (The longest range I can test loads at on my own property.) And I’ve managed to shoot myself into the Master Class in both of those very difficult shooting sports.

Perhaps I was lucky in my early years in that I was forced to go the cast-bullet route in my reloading endeavors. It made me appreciate that species of projectile and has caused me to get the very most enjoyment out of handloading.

Four Fingers of Death

01-07-2016, 02:25 AM

Well the rifle is fonally going to be available in Australia, due next month, advertised at $AU 1929.00.

Now, I'm tempted to get a 308, but as the barrel is only 20" long, I'm not so sure, not that I do much long range stuff at the moment, but I'd like to.

Tazman1602

02-09-2017, 09:24 AM

Just looked at an E-Mail from Ruger toting their new rifle. Kinda looks like somebody out there had a flashback to their childhood when they had an erector set! There may be a handfull of shooters that will get all giddy over this piece of metal work, but not this old boy that still shoots Mausers and Springfields and of course pre-64 Model 70`s. I almost don`t want to know what they are going to price this thing at, I might laugh myself into another heart attack! Go ahead now people and make sport of this old man`s thoughts.Robert

Bob --

long time no see! Life you know, takes over sometimes. Now maybe when this post started the price might have been high, but brother, I just got one in 308 (243 is no longer made..) for $1200 and all I can say is "WOW".

This is literally the first rifle ive bought in a few years and last weekend it shot anything we put down the tube to 1" groups. That was with 168gr factory fodder, can't wait to work up a load for it. Trigger is supreme, maybe 2-3lbs and breaks like glass. VERY happy with this rifle and it's out of the box performance. The 6.5CM gets all the good press, but I'll keep my 308...

Art

Four Fingers of Death

02-09-2017, 05:56 PM

I have since found out that the Ruger Precision Rifle is not legal in my State. We only have one Police Force in each State and as such. the Commissioner of these has a fair bit of influence. Our Police have always had a fit about guns that can be fired with the stock folded and this is the only reason I can think of for the rifle not being available (lots of similar rifles are available and there is a special version of a similar spec Tikka (I think it is a Tikka) with a fixed stock for the couple of States that have the same silly rule). I think that is the problem and no one seems to be able to tell me and the Police will only respond to a written request for info. UNfortunately, all of the similar spec rifles are a thousand dollars or more dearer. I like the Ruger brand and I like spending a thousand dollars less on a rifle.