Mouse Fart 9mm in HiPoint carbine

[jonnnyboy]

I found myself with a few minutes to spare this evening and have been listening to the distant and not so distant booms of the holiday firecrackers. I got to thinking, yes dangerous, about a relatively quiet plinking 9mm round out of the only 9mm rifle I have; the Hi-Point Carbine.

Parameters:
Airgun quiet
Doesn't have to cycle gun but bullet MUST exit barrel
Accuracy at 25 yards approx. 2 inch groups if possible

Available powders: Bullseye, CFE Pistol, Trail Boss, RedDot, 700X and BE-86.
Available Bullets: 124gr lead round nose

1st experiment was 2gr of Bullseye, cycled action but still pretty loud. 1.5gr of Bullseye began to get more audibly comfortable but still a little crack in the sound and the action became sporadic (which was okay). Charge almost disappeared in the case which was a bother to see.

2nd experiment was 1.5gr Trail Boss which had the same sound as 2gr Bullseye and still cycled the action. 1gr Trail Boss began to be quiet and more enjoyable. Action would need to be hand-cycled. Will need to load up 15 or 20 to see how accuracy holds up.

I'm wondering if going to a 147gr bullet might mute the sound a little better?

Has anyone ever chased a rabbit down this particular hole? What did you find?

thanks

[runfiverun]

I'd have to go look at mine to remember but I think these are blow back actions.

the 147gr boolit should be somewhat workable, the inertia of the heavier boolit might just help ejection.
I think your load will be back in the 2 gr area.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Hmm, I have the same gun, 995TS and thinking about the same thing! I have Berry's 100gr RNHB and Rainier 115gr RN. I also have some Lee 70gr .360 powdercoated round balls I plink in my .380's for giggles.

Powders I have for experimentation that might fit the bill: VV N310, VV N320, 700X, Titegroup, Tightwad, 231/HP-38, WSF, WST and a handful of other shotgun/pistol powders used for normal-full loads but don't think those are the powders for bunny fart loads. I wish I had some Trail Boss, thats been a hard one to find round here. I do have access to most of the Vectan/Nobelsport powders here recently but none on hand.

[jonnnyboy]

Yes, the Hi-Point is a blowback design. I've always heard that the heavier the bullit and faster powders were the secret to quieter shots in longer barrels. That's why I was wondering on the heavier 147gr.

I liked the Trail Boss as it shows up better in the cases than Bullseye given the small charges.

[Litl Red 3991]

I would absolutely stay away from the flake powders. Recent experience with Red Dot and 700X while working DOWN some 32 target loads proved once again how badly they meter when you're after light loads. When you're trying for charges that are less than Start Loads listed by reputable mfg's, flat flake powders are bad news. It's not worth the risk, even if you've got what you think is a fool proof procedure.

A fast double base spherical powder charges reliably and safely in those amounts.

[Litl Red 3991]

If you really are chasing rabbits.....

Once upon a time, our house was being ruined by squirrels whose range was being compressed into our neighborhood by new developments. Our house was wood shingles and our neighbors were brick. My first thought was similar to yours. Then I remembered how quiet 22 shorts could be. While looking for them, I stumbled on CCI CB longs. They are quieter out of my Rem514 than my pellet rifle was. And the pellet rifle, in spite of being advertised as a hunting rifle, wasn't up to the task.

[jonp]

I can attest to the metering of red dot with light loads. I ran down into the 2.2-2.4gr area for my 38sp and resorted to hand weighing every load. The thrown loads at that level varied wildly

[BSJI]

I used .3cc (Lee dipper) of Trail Boss to firelapp my 9mm Sub-2000.

I only shot them into my bullet trap at point blank range, but they did easily exit the bore. Barely a pop. Bolt also barely moved.

[jonnnyboy]

I don't foresee loading very many of these lite loads, maybe fifty at a time and expect that each charge will need to be individually weighed. The extremely small amount of powder in each case would need to be examined during the loading process to insure there's not a "primer only" case to get through. That would definitely stick a bullet.

Right now, I am leaning toward ordering some more 147gr and seeing how that does with some of the faster powders.

[jcren]

Haven't shot them in a rifle, but WST in my wife's 380 with Lee's 105 swc, loaded to barely work the action is quieter than a 22. Don't have data in front of me, but meters well in lee pro-disc. I have never gotten good accuracy with trail boss. I would certainly look at the heavy cast to keep pressure up and carry more energy with less velocity.

[Mytmousemalibu]

I agree on the flake powders being a pain in the **** and frustrating for this kind of stuff. Aside from hand weighing every charge (which I have done but life is too short for that nonsense on plinker loads) dippers and most measures offer too much deviation with a lite charge of flake powder. I like my plinker .380 round ball loads, fun, fairly muted report, very .22LR'esqe. I wanted just enough oomph to cycle the action on my pistol. 2.5gr of Titegroup does pretty well but still loud but I loaded some more with 2.0gr of Titewad today and was quite pleased. I will keep tuning the load around till I find the sweet spot. I want to do the same thing for the 995TS and I will likely be getting an M&P 9C soon that I want the same from.

[minmax]

I had a Hi-Point that had a chrome receiver, I bought the ATI stock for it. It was a great little rifle. No matter what people say about Hi-Point. traded it for a used Sub-2000, which was less accurate. I shot a lot of 147gn bullets through the Hi-Point, it would be a lot easier to thread the barrel than the Sub-2000. I like the idea of the mouse fart loads. I just received a new N.O.E. heavy grain hallow point mould. I'll have to load some up and report back.

[Litl Red 3991]

I agree on the flake powders being a pain in the **** and frustrating for this kind of stuff. Aside from hand weighing every charge (which I have done but life is too short for that nonsense on plinker loads) .....

Life is too short if you use a beam balance, but using a digital takes almost too short a time to measure. And no real extra hand movements to speak of.

It's easy and fast. It really doesn't add time or motions worth worrying about.

The $25 pocket digitals fit directly under a powder measure like the RCBS rotaries. You bring the case to be charged over with one hand but sit it on the scale and touch the TARE or ZERO button. You've just removed the weight of the case from importance. The case is nothing more than a powder pan, so to speak. Measure your charge into the case and sit it back down on the scale. Look at the displayed weight of the powder. You'll see if it's dangerous if that's all you care about. Squib loads show weight that's not close to the amount you want. Double charges show double the weight you want. And if you think about the movements, you'll wonder how one crank of the handle delivered twice the charge. If the charge is close enough for you, put the bullet into the case and either seat it or put back where you got it.

It's simple, easy and takes about an additional second. Ok, verifying the charge weight might take some of us longer than others, but anyone who struggles verifying individual charges really should reconsider reloading.

Those who don't understand what "tare/zero" means haven't seen a digital in action and would benefit from the experience.

[jonnnyboy]

That's the way I hand weigh individual loadings. Hitting the tare button cancels out the weight of the case and then I just bring it up to my wanted weight by dribbling powder out of a small dipper. Works pretty good, though kind of tedious. I wouldn't want to do more than a box of fifty at a time this way! Need to order those 147's this week.

[Mytmousemalibu]

[QUOTE=Mytmousemalibu;3302807]I agree on the flake powders being a pain in the **** and frustrating for this kind of stuff. Aside from hand weighing every charge (which I have done but life is too short for that nonsense on plinker loads) ..... [QUOTE]

Life is too short if you use a beam balance, but using a digital takes almost too short a time to measure. And no real extra hand movements to speak of.

It's easy and fast. It really doesn't add time or motions worth worrying about.

The $25 pocket digitals fit directly under a powder measure like the RCBS rotaries. You bring the case to be charged over with one hand but sit it on the scale and touch the TARE or ZERO button. You've just removed the weight of the case from importance. The case is nothing more than a powder pan, so to speak. Measure your charge into the case and sit it back down on the scale. Look at the displayed weight of the powder. You'll see if it's dangerous if that's all you care about. Squib loads show weight that's not close to the amount you want. Double charges show double the weight you want. And if you think about the movements, you'll wonder how one crank of the handle delivered twice the charge. If the charge is close enough for you, put the bullet into the case and either seat it or put back where you got it.

It's simple, easy and takes about an additional second. Ok, verifying the charge weight might take some of us longer than others, but anyone who struggles verifying individual charges really should reconsider reloading.

Those who don't understand what "tare/zero" means haven't seen a digital in action and would benefit from the experience.

Ill have to give that a shot, I've not tried it that way, still just used the powder pan. Thanks for the tips!

[Litl Red 3991]

That's the way I hand weigh individual loadings. Hitting the tare button cancels out the weight of the case and then I just bring it up to my wanted weight by dribbling powder out of a small dipper. Works pretty good, though kind of tedious. I wouldn't want to do more than a box of fifty at a time this way! Need to order those 147's this week.

Most of the powders I use are fairly consistent from both my RCBS and Lyman measures. I set the measure to throw the charge weight I want and only a few out of 50 would simply get dumped back into the measure and charged again.

I've also done some accuracy testing to see how much accuracy is affected by out-of-range charges and have basically quit worrying about accuracy.

The process is faster than anything I've ever done to insure safe charges, so I "weigh charges" now as a safety step. You also learn a lot about the consistency of the different powders that way.

[Lonegun1894]

Y'all are making me want a 9mm carbine...

[Mytmousemalibu]

Most of the powders I use are fairly consistent from both my RCBS and Lyman measures. I set the measure to throw the charge weight I want and only a few out of 50 would simply get dumped back into the measure and charged again.

I've also done some accuracy testing to see how much accuracy is affected by out-of-range charges and have basically quit worrying about accuracy.

The process is faster than anything I've ever done to insure safe charges, so I "weigh charges" now as a safety step. You also learn a lot about the consistency of the different powders that way.

I'm itching to finally get a nice electronic measure to add to the reloading bench and am leaning towards the new Lyman Gen5 machine. Which Lyman do you have?

[Mytmousemalibu]

Y'all are making me want a 9mm carbine... The cheapie Hi Point 995 is a blast to shoot! For as cheap as it is, its fantastic and really is a good shooter.

[jonnnyboy]

Y'all are making me want a 9mm carbine...

One of the greatest overlooked firearms, "in my humble opinion," has to be a pistol cartridge-based carbine. If you're a reloader there is not many things that are more fun than loading up a bunch of your own plinking ammo just for the sake of stroking the trigger. I think one of the greatest mistakes our single-shot rifle manufacturers are making is not releasing a break action rifle in 9mm. Cheap plinking ammo plus all the components for reloading make up an effective replacement for when the 22lr ammo goes bye-bye.

I love my Hi-Point 9mm carbine. It's like a good pair of work boots. You wouldn't want to take it to the show but you would carry it in the truck!!!

[Lonegun1894]

One of the greatest overlooked firearms, "in my humble opinion," has to be a pistol cartridge-based carbine. If you're a reloader there is not many things that are more fun than loading up a bunch of your own plinking ammo just for the sake of stroking the trigger. I think one of the greatest mistakes our single-shot rifle manufacturers are making is not releasing a break action rifle in 9mm. Cheap plinking ammo plus all the components for reloading make up an effective replacement for when the 22lr ammo goes bye-bye.

I love my Hi-Point 9mm carbine. It's like a good pair of work boots. You wouldn't want to take it to the show but you would carry it in the truck!!!


I agree with you about this class of rifle being unjustly overlooked and under-estimated. I have a few rifles in ..357 Mag, .44 Mag, and .45 Colt, in addition to the standard .22LR, but have nothing of any kind in 9mm. Now part of me says that there's nothing the 9mm can do that my .357 can't do better, but the 9mm uses a bit less lead, a bit less powder, and brass that is free for the picking at just about any shooting range. So the 9mm has a bit of a draw to it.

[jonnnyboy]

Now part of me says that there's nothing the 9mm can do that my .357 can't do better, but the 9mm uses a bit less lead, a bit less powder, and brass that is free for the picking at just about any shooting range. So the 9mm has a bit of a draw to it.

Exactly! A few years ago, when I could pick up 38sp cases for almost free, I felt the same way about my H&R 357mag single-shot. Now, with 9mm and 40 so prevalent, it's almost a no-brainer for me to use them as my favorite plinking ammo. Also, there's something to be said about having a sidearm that shoots the same ammo as your long-arm.

If more manufacturers could/would hit Hi-Point's price point with long guns in 9mm, I would probably be broke but happy!

[Litl Red 3991]

I'm itching to finally get a nice electronic measure to add to the reloading bench and am leaning towards the new Lyman Gen5 machine. Which Lyman do you have?

Lyman 55

It's setup to use at the range but hasn't been in years. I'm not in that much of a hurry nowadays, and haven't shot benchrest in decades. Of course it works in the shop.