Interesting Situation with H110 and .454 Casull

[palabman]

I just purchased a Ruger Alaskan in .454 and have been working up some loads with H110. I loaded 6 with 300gr Cast Performance GC and the starting load of 24.7gr H110 (Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook) and Tula SRM primers. The first fired but felt like an extremely light load. The next one felt like a squib and stuck a boolit just into the rifling with clumped powder in the barrel behind the boolit and some still in the cylinder. After checking the revolver and removing the squib I tried a 3rd that did the same thing this time sending the boolit to the end of the barrel.

Here is what it looked like:

143365 143366143367

I'm going to pull the remaining 3.

The other 6 were loaded with the same H110 but with 27.8 gr of powder and 300gr Hornady XTP MAGs and Tula SRM primers. They worked fine.

Was the charge too light? Like I said, it was Lyman's starting load. This is old powder but it smells and looks okay. There is no clumping in the container and it looked fine when I measured it.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[44man]

I told you guys. The SR primer is not good. Worst thing ever. You need max with H110 or 296. NO starting loads.
Cut down .460 brass to use a LP mag and all goes away.
Now confirmation to what I said. Been bashed over it so what will be said?
You are new so did not see.
I am glad you caught it and did not shoot again with a stuck bullet. The primer is wrong and don't let anyone tell you different. The caliber NEEDS a LP magnum primer. Now you will get 50,000 posts to say I am wrong.

[Harter66]

I loaded some for a RBH 45 Colts . I used CCI LPP standard . Those results are very similar to mine, lots of unburned powder, speeds from 900 to 1150 and more than once a very elongated cylinder hiss of the very unnerving sort.

More recently I loaded some for a Rosschester 92' with a rediculusly heavy crimp and CCI mag LPP and at 19.0 H110 with a 257gr 454424 it all came together 20 fps from high to low, little groups and a clean gun .

I can't say for sure if it was the crimp or the primer that solved the burn problem. The books recommend both . I would be suspect of the primers if you have a crimp that is actually into the crimp groove at all .

As an alternate note there was little if any difference between a patched and lubed bullet.

[Tatume]

Here's the first one of the 50,000. It is not the primer. The charge is too light. This caliber needs more powder in order to build pressure and support combustion. The small rifle primer will work just fine if the charge is sufficient. I've seen it many times. Don't even try to shoot light charges. More H110 is better, same for Accurate No. 9.

That said, 44man may be correct that the LP magnum primer could produce better accuracy. I don't know, I've never tested it, and I won't say it's not true unless I've seen it with my own careful tests.

[runfiverun]

yes, the charge was too light with the cast boolit.

think about what did and what didn't work.
your only change was a bullet that takes [and creates] more pressure when it engraves or encounters resistance.
those worked..

[palabman]

yes, the charge was too light with the cast boolit.

Hmmm... I wonder how Lyman arrived at that starting load?

[runfiverun]

by using jacketed data.

[Larry Gibson]

Lyman used a 6" barrel in a Universal Reciever which is a receiver to measure the pressure with via C.U.P. That is not even a vented barrel let alone a revolver with a barrel/cylinder gap such as your revolver. The barrel/cylinder gap of your revolver vents the flame and psi before the H110 powders is burning sufficiently on it's own, hence the scorched but unburned powder and the bullet stopped in the barrel just ahead of the barrel/cylinder gap.

H110 can, even though some think not, not burn sufficiently in some circumstances causing the bullet to stick in the throat/leade of the barrel before the powder burns sufficiently. In rare cases an initial drop in psi before the powder then begins to burn properly is the result and if the bullet does not move or does not move fast enough a "pressure spike may be the result or an SEE. The real danger in the OP's situation is not understanding what happened and firing the next round. The results of that could be catastrophic to say the least.

Larry Gibson

[palabman]

by using jacketed data.

I'm not trying to argue here because the load is definitely too light but this was taken from the 4th Ed of the Lyman Cast Handbook for a Saeco #454 300 Gr. Start load: 24.7 Max load: 27.5.

[palabman]

Lyman used a 6" barrel in a Universal Reciever which is a receiver to measure the pressure with via C.U.P. That is not even a vented barrel let alone a revolver with a barrel/cylinder gap such as your revolver. The barrel/cylinder gap of your revolver vents the flame and psi before the H110 powders is burning sufficiently on it's own, hence the scorched but unburned powder and the bullet stopped in the barrel just ahead of the barrel/cylinder gap.

H110 can, even though some think not, not burn sufficiently in some circumstances causing the bullet to stick in the throat/leade of the barrel before the powder burns sufficiently. In rare cases an initial drop in psi before the powder then begins to burn properly is the result and if the bullet does not move or does not move fast enough a "pressure spike may be the result or an SEE. The real danger in the OP's situation is not understanding what happened and firing the next round. The results of that could be catastrophic to say the least.

Larry Gibson

Ah, you snuck that one in there before I finished typing. :). That would explain it. Thanks

[243winxb]

Hows neck tension/bullet pull? The expander should be 3 to 4 thousands smaller than bullet diameter. Measure the brass before and after seating a bullet, has it expanded at least .003" http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/2015%20Reloading/th_45acp%20NeckTension%20A_zps2nhf4njc.jpg (http://s338.photobucket.com/user/joe1944usa/media/2015%20Reloading/45acp%20NeckTension%20A_zps2nhf4njc.jpg.html) http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/Firearms%20%20and%20%20Reloading/th_BulletPullNeckTension.jpg (http://s338.photobucket.com/user/joe1944usa/media/Firearms%20%20and%20%20Reloading/BulletPullNeckTension.jpg.html) Click for larger view.

[palabman]

Hows neck tension/bullet pull? The expander should be 3 to 4 thousands smaller than bullet diameter. Measure the brass before and after seating a bullet, has it expanded at least .003"

That seems fine. 0.4705 without, 0.4745 with. Pretty heavy roll crimp also.

[Harter66]

The cylinder gap wasn't even considered in my situation .that would be a major player in why it works in the 16" carbine and not the revolvers . The mag pistol primers are mandated in the Hogdon data.

[runfiverun]

right.
they showed it with a cast boolit but the data was worked up with a jacketed bullet first. [somewhere else]
then they run the cast boolit load through their equipment to give you data to work from.
it's a whole lot easier to modify data than to make it up from scratch.

[palabman]

I'm just a little surprised Lyman publishes that load without a disclaimer that it is a Contender/Encore or rifle load only. I double checked the manual to make sure I wasn't in the Contender/Encore section in the cast book but they don't even have that section as with Lyman #49. It definitely states that it was tested in the universal receiver.

Oh well, live and learn. I guess I can count my self lucky on that one.

[runfiverun]

no problems it's all a learning situation for everybody.

see my sig line.

[DrCaveman]

You other guys may be right, but 44man wins the "reliabilty" award for proposing an idea that doesnt require such strict guidelines to even get a boolit out the barrel. Why limit myself to +/- .2 grains between (reliable) start load and max load when i can alter a few cases to get a bit wider range available to me for finding a more accurate load?

454 casull was developed with duplex and triplex loads, anything else is a new creation. use at your own risk. I would just load top end 45 colt loads, theyll get the job done and use less powder

[runfiverun]

when dealing with 110/296 you get what you get.
it operates in a narrow window and is full tilt only.
if you want flexibility you need a different powder, I generally use 2400 for the majority of my revolver shooting.
but on the rare occasion I do use H-110 I start right near maximum.
I have seen some loads that give you a 1 grain window to work in and I believe it.

[leftiye]

What he said.

What is H110 and 296 most famous for? Blowing up guns when reduced (reads insufficient) loads are used! Easy solution - don't do anything reduced for any given caliber. Then don't do it again. It ain't the 454, it's the H110. You're lucky all you got was a bunch of question marks.

[bobthenailer]

In my 454 casull's one of my favorite loads is 28.0 grs of 296/H-110 behind a LBT 300 gr gc LFN @ 1,450 fps using a fed SR primer and all the accuracy you could need ,1" or better at 50 yards is normal for this load , fired from a rest and using a 7x power pistol scope

[four70nitro]

I've always had great results using Winchester LPP with H-110/W-296 in .44Mag, .45 Colt, and .475 Linebaugh - never a hiccup, though I am running them withing 3% of max load listed in various manuals. Also had good luck with H-110 in .22 Hornet, .300 Blackout, and hopefully (soon) in .458 SOCOM.

[44man]

The .454 must be shot near max with H110 or 296 for sure but once I cut pockets for LP, even standard LP primers worked with starting loads but mags were more accurate. Still with LP mags, the most accurate was at max and was better then with SR mags every time.
Cut down .460 brass and give the .454 life. Cutting pockets is a real pain.

[bbailey7821]

I've loaded 454 Casull for years using exclusively WW296/H110 and CCI450 primers. I have never experienced a misfire, but I don't reduce loads. My suggestion is to shoot 45 colts if you don't want to deal with the recoil. Or find a buddy with a 460 and shoot it a couple of times, then the 454 recoil won't bother you at all.

[palabman]

I've loaded 454 Casull for years using exclusively WW296/H110 and CCI450 primers. I have never experienced a misfire, but I don't reduce loads. My suggestion is to shoot 45 colts if you don't want to deal with the recoil. Or find a buddy with a 460 and shoot it a couple of times, then the 454 recoil won't bother you at all.

Not really a recoil issue. Just working up loads from the Lyman Cast Handbook. That was the starting load suggested for that boolit.

[44man]

Not really a recoil issue. Just working up loads from the Lyman Cast Handbook. That was the starting load suggested for that boolit.
Correct. The SR primer is the problem. Worst stinking idea ever.
Sure you will see some to defend but notice they load full bore or buy factory loads.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have to disagree that the charge was too small. It still should have fired. 24.7 gr of H110 is nearing max for the .44 Magnum, and everybody here has fired thousands of them with no problem. There is not that much difference in the case capacity between the .44 case and the .454 case maybe 10-15% at most. If his cases were more than 60% full then the charge size was not the problem.

Super cold weather could be a problem but it is kind of late in the year for that.

The only possible problems here were the Primer or the Powder.

It has been common knowledge since before I started using H110 in 1976 that it needs Magnum Primers to perform correctly. Especially in cold weather.

There are far too many people who get away with using regular Pistol Primers with H110 a few times and then say they are not needed. In hot weather they will ignite the charge OK but in cold weather they won't! And they are never consistent.

The only other variable here is the condition of the powder. I would suggest trying some new H110 with Mag primers with your starting load, and see what happens, but try Mag Primers alone with the existing primers first to eliminate that variable.

Then you will know exactly what the problem was.

Problems with low charges of H110 are created when the charge occupies less than 50% of the case volume after the boolit is seated. This allows the powder to level out when the gun is horizontal and present a larger surface area of powder to be ignited thus increasing the pressure dramatically. When the case is near full the surface area that the flash sees is the inside diameter of the case, instead of the length and width of the case.

All of this said,,, There is something fishy here because even with LP primers this powder charge should have burned more than enough to propel the boolit out of the barrel. Hell, just the primer alone should be enough to stick the boolit in the barrel.

The more I think about this, the more it smells like bad powder.

Randy

[Guesser]

I've had that H-110 experience in the 454. When L'il Gun came out I shifted over to it and all problems disappeared; pressures dropped, velocities and deviations standardized and temperatures dropped. Accuracy is superb and velocities are as good as with H-110 or 296. Try it!!

[palabman]

Super cold weather could be a problem but it is kind of late in the year for that.

The only possible problems here were the Primer or the Powder.

It has been common knowledge since before I started using H110 in 1976 that it needs Magnum Primers to perform correctly. Especially in cold weather.


The only other variable here is the condition of the powder. I would suggest trying some new H110 with Mag primers with your starting load, and see what happens, but try Mag Primers alone with the existing primers first to eliminate that variable.

Then you will know exactly what the problem was.

All of this said,,, There is something fishy here because even with LP primers this powder charge should have burned more than enough to propel the boolit out of the barrel. Hell, just the primer alone should be enough to stick the boolit in the barrel.

The more I think about this, the more it smells like bad powder.

Randy

A couple of points. I was using magnum primers. They were Tula KVB-5,56M Small Rifle Magnum primers. Temp was mid 70's so as you said that shouldn't enter into it. I agree that this may be a powder issue as this is old stuff. As I have said, it smells and looks fine and did work with good accuracy using 27.8gr and Hornady jacketed bullets.

[palabman]

I've had that H-110 experience in the 454. When L'il Gun came out I shifted over to it and all problems disappeared; pressures dropped, velocities and deviations standardized and temperatures dropped. Accuracy is superb and velocities are as good as with H-110 or 296. Try it!!

The only problem is I have ton's of H110 and Win 296 to go through. I'd hate to have to add another powder till I go through my current supply.

[Larry Gibson]

I suggest trying the CCI 450, Federal SRM or WSR primers if you can find them with the H110. Use a solid crimp and up the start load to 25.5 gr (still 2 gr below max in #4 CBH) and work up from there. You know what a "squib" load is/does now so be cognizant of it as you work up the load. If you settle on a load make sure it give 100% ignition.

I don't load H110 with cast bullets of 250 gr or less, even with the max listed 25 gr load over magnum primers, in my 44 Magnum revolvers simply because the ignition is not reliable. I have had to many of the same problem. Now with a heavier and longer bullet such as a 270 gr 429244 or 429640HP 23 gr of H110 over a CCI 350 primer gives 100% reliable ignition.

Larry Gibson

[tygar]

FWIW with H110 & comparables, I usually don't start much less than 1gr over minimum & use SRmag primers. Never have a problem. If I want a light load go with Unique or like powder.

Same with any mag & H110. Just loaded up a number of different bullets in the .500 S&W today & minimum H110 load was .6 over minimum. H110 is made so you can shoot big bullets fast & get your S&M on.

[dragon813gt]

I've had that H-110 experience in the 454. When L'il Gun came out I shifted over to it and all problems disappeared; pressures dropped, velocities and deviations standardized and temperatures dropped. Accuracy is superb and velocities are as good as with H-110 or 296. Try it!!

And you will eventually end up w/ erosion issues. You traded one issue for another. I know plenty of people like that powder but I stopped using it.

What strikes me is that the OP fired three rounds. One that didn't sound right, one that stuck a bullet w/ unburnt powder that was visible and finally a third that stuck a bullet. This is really asking for trouble. Please don't do this again. I've pulled down ammo for a lot less than this. H110 does some funny things and should be used w/ real caution.

[W.R.Buchanan]

My standard .44 magnum load is 22.0 gr of H110 with 260 gr 429244. I had in the past used Lee 429-240 GC with 23.0 gr of H110.

I always wondered what guys were talking about when they were talking Hang Fires and bad ignition with these components.

I am currently about to use up my last 100 CCI 350 LPM primers from the 5000 I bought in 1978.

I have never had even one misfire, squib or other malfunction. Which is why I wonder?

Everyone of these .44 Magnums were either loaded with 22.0 or 23.0 gr of H110. I have also loaded a considerable number of .44 Specials with the same boolits and 14.5 gr of H110, once again with the Mag Primers. I have always used Magnum Primers because that is what all of my Reloading Manuals from that time period said to use.

I even use H110 as my goto .410 Shotshell Powder.209 primers seem to be hot enough to burn all of that 16.0 gr charge. The pressure of the .410 is about 10,500psi which is no where close to what the brass cartridges run at but with the 209 primer all the powder seems to get burnt even at that low pressure.

Does the .454 case have a Small Primer Pocket?

Randy

[palabman]

Does the .454 case have a Small Primer Pocket?Randy

Yes it does. It is my understanding that was done to strengthen the case head.

[murf205]

My particular lot of H-110 worked wonders on my wife's roses. Never again.

[cainttype]

Does the .454 case have a Small Primer Pocket?

Randy

They do now.
The original casings offered by Freedom Arms used large primer pockets. I have used both without issue, always upper end loads with both H110 and AA#9.

[tygar]

I bought my first FA 454 in early 80s & frequently talked to Dick & his son & had many boxes of both loaded ammo & brass & none of it was large primer. All small. Still using FA brass & still have their original 260 & 300gr bullets & I think one last box of original loaded ammo, again all small primer.

So, never saw them have a large primer.

[runfiverun]

something I thought I seen before but failed to discuss.
I know some of those Russian primers marked sr magnum are made with thicker cups but
DO-NOT have a higher brisance level.
they have the thicker cups to resist slam fires in semi-automatic rifles and are labeled magnum to differentiate the cup thickness.
[like the thicker cups hold the higher pressure of the 5.56 nato versus the 223 higher]

[Messy bear]

OP- yes that is too low. Use cci 450 s if you can find them. In fact I use 450 s when I reduce the charge a bit. Regular 400 s will ignite a full case with most loads. It's the airspace left in the case that's causing this. The primer is cushioned and can't get a good " wack" at the powder.
I don't think freedom would recommend loading this low. Find and use they're data.

[44man]

We had too much trouble with starting loads and up to near max with a boolit driven into the barrels on a Freedom and SRH. All the powder was behind the boolits and barely discolored at the rear. My shooting bag always has a brass rod and hammer in it. Made no difference what SR mag primer was used either.
Once max loads were reached it went away and all would fire. I was using max tension and a good crimp. 335 to 347 gr boolits.
I cut pockets and tried the Fed 150 and any load ignited but going to the 155 really increased accuracy but it was still reached near or at max anyway.
I then loaded some over max with the LP mags to see any pressure signs and there was none, primers not even flat. Easy extraction. I figure I was near 55,000 to 60,000 psi.
It is false the SR was used to strengthen the case, it was chosen because first loads tested were duplex and triplex powder charges, starting with some Bullseye.
We found the .460 has a large pocket and a Fed 155 is perfect so I cut a bunch down and it brought the .454 to the best we ever shot.
As far as the .44 I have used nothing but a Fed 150 since 1979 or 80. Mag primers triple groups and testing to -20° still showed the standard better. Maybe I shot a million rounds of .44's with never a problem. Been shooting the .44's since 1956 and used mag primers until I started IHMSA and testing why steel was hard to hit. I only use 296 since it came out. Before was 2400, still a great powder and sure does not need mag primers.
Cold might affect 296 and H110 but I am not at -40° either.
Even my .45 Colt with 296 uses a 150 but a WW primer does well.
You will have a hard time telling me I need mag primers in the .44 and others here have switched and are happy.

[cainttype]

K
I bought my first FA 454 in early 80s & frequently talked to Dick & his son & had many boxes of both loaded ammo & brass & none of it was large primer. All small. Still using FA brass & still have their original 260 & 300gr bullets & I think one last box of original loaded ammo, again all small primer.

So, never saw them have a large primer.

These were purchased years ago. The 357 case with small primer is included for comparison.
These 454s are large primer. Most of what I have on hand now are small primer pockets.

I can only guess this particular brass was run by North American Arms for the Casull (Freedom Arms) when they were apparently working closely together. I know that the mini-revolvers made by NAA were originally manufactured by FA, until the rights were purchased some years ago... Never really researched any of this, though.

[palabman]

It is false the SR was used to strengthen the case, it was chosen because first loads tested were duplex and triplex powder charges, starting with some Bullseye.

Why were SR chosen for duplex and triplex loads?

[palabman]

something I thought I seen before but failed to discuss.
I know some of those Russian primers marked sr magnum are made with thicker cups but
DO-NOT have a higher brisance level.
they have the thicker cups to resist slam fires in semi-automatic rifles and are labeled magnum to differentiate the cup thickness.
[like the thicker cups hold the higher pressure of the 5.56 nato versus the 223 higher]

This could be an issue. The Tula primers worked fine when the charge was up around 28 grains. As 44man stated, it may be the combination of the airspace at that low charge and the Tula primer being weaker ignition. I'll keep the powder charge above 26 gr for starting and use the Tula's for my AR's. I do have some Remington 7 1/2 Benchrest primers I will use for the Casull.

[44man]

Why were SR chosen for duplex and triplex loads?
Dick figured on the extreme pressures. He broke a lot of guns but we don't shoot that level.
What I believe happens is a bullet can get moved by a SR primer and it increases air space. Amazing how far a bullet can get pushed up the bore but the little primer runs out of flame. Cast moves out easier too.
One thing I would not like to see is the bullet and powder up the bore and then ignition! Best if the light goes out.

[Blackwater]

I've been watching this thread with interest, and all I can add is that I once tried 296 (sister of H-110) in a .357 with 125 gr. JHP's, and they all fired, but the muzzle blast seemed to wrap around and come back and hit me in the face. VERY unpleasant. I was using the max. listed load in one manual, but others recommended more. I abandoned 296 for light bullets in magnums. Just not worth it to me, even though accuracy was pretty fair. It was later said that I'd just used too LITTLE a charge, and I think that might be right, and what applies here, but I'm still awaiting a verdict on that. The situation seems at least a little similar to what I experienced, though the symptoms are different.

Also, there's no doubt that ignition is a bif factor in ANY load, and that H-110/296 CAN be rather hard to ignite. In my experience, it's just a very specialized powder for special loads, and as Hodgdon says in their Annual Manual, it just screams "No wimps please," and needs to be loaded within a very narrow range at or very near maximum pressure levels for handguns, or it burns on exit from the barrel, which is what I think I experienced with my old JHP load in .357, where that muzzle blast literally seemed to be like holding a grenade in the hand and pulling the pin. When that shock wave hits you in the face, it's kinda' discouraging, and takes your focus away from the shooting and target. Not good.

First thing I'd do, if it was me (which it ain't) is to increase the charge by at least 1 gr. if manuals say it's permissable, and try again. I suspect (but don't KNOW) that the problem will go away quickly. If that's not enough, I'd change to a hotter primer. In specialized loads like this, it's sometimes encountered that not only does it matter whether you use a std. or mag. primer, but occasionally a specific BRAND of primer. I'd buy up at least 100 of each mag. primer I could and give them a test to see if it matters. When you find a brand and type of primer that works the best, buy up a large lot so you can be sure you can duplicate your pet load.

Just my 2 cents' worth, but I'll be watching the followups. Those .454's have a LOT of case capacity, and that makes it different from the .44's substantially smaller powder space, and that's significant with H-110.

[runfiverun]

Dick broke off with north American arms after only one revolver. [and it wasn't the tiny sized ones]
if you ever talk to him, do not ask about that relationship, unless you wanna hear a cranky old man carry on for about an hour. [made that mistake once when I wanted him to build me a 45 colt cylinder for that revolver]
that revolver wasn't offered in the 454 casull it was offered in the 450 express [45 win mag/45colt] which is a slightly shorter rimless version of the 454.
the ammo for that was made by north American arms and commands about 5-6 bucks a pop for any factory ammo you can still find [I have a box of 50 I cut the plastic off so I could duplicate the brass]

[tygar]

If your shooting a FA .454, the 260 or 300 Casull bullet load that either Dick or his son told he, was "all" the H110 you can fit in the case & still crimp the bullet! He said you can't put enough powder in it to break it with H110 & that was the recommended powder. Now this was just shooter to shooter & I don't even know what the current max loads quoted now for FAs I gave my last one to one of my sons. I don't think I'd be doing it in my SRH but again havn't really tried to crank it up to max + as I have a good load that works fine & is decent to shoot.

[cainttype]

Wikipedia, whatever that's worth, says Casull joined up with FAs in 1978 with building mini-revolvers of different designs. Several patents later, production rights were purchased by NAA.
Of course, you can get away with almost anything on Wiki. :)

[cainttype]

The large-primer NAA head stamped 454 Casull brass has held up very well... I'd like to find more of it.

[tygar]

I was just in my loading room & checked my loads for FA made bullets. The 260 is 34-37, & the 300 is 28-31. These loads were direct from Casull & were very accurate in my 5, 6 & 10" FAs & they were all using FA small primer brass. By the way, I have also used Rem SR in them without malfunction, but use the Mags almost exclusively.

[44man]

Very important to limit air space with H110 and 296. It is a little harder to light so you don't want to push it away from flame.
Another thing to watch is recoil boolit pull so you need retention. A boolit that has pulled is like short loading.
Crimp alone will not do it. Had some .454 factory cast loads here once with a full profile crimp, very severe on brass. Never got more then 2 or 3 shots before the guns locked up. Had to tap boolits back in. Every one could have acted like a reduced load.
I loaded a bunch and used a normal roll crimp without any boolit moving.
Make sure you have case tension. You want to keep powder right on the flash hole.
If you do that, there is nothing wrong with the SR primer, it has just made it harder to work book loads. Fill the case more. That little primer has a heck of an amount of "push."
I have always found it is better to reduce push and add fire.

[Tar Heel]

Use copious amounts of H110 and spark it off with a MAGNUM primer. Your bullet will REQUIRE a hard crimp. So: LOTS of H110 + MAGNUM Primer + HEAVY Crimp = BANG. Anything else = SQUIB. But then all the previous posts have said as much too.

[Tar Heel]

K

These were purchased years ago. The 357 case with small primer is included for comparison.
These 454s are large primer. Most of what I have on hand now are small primer pockets.

I can only guess this particular brass was run by North American Arms for the Casull (Freedom Arms) when they were apparently working closely together. I know that the mini-revolvers made by NAA were originally manufactured by FA, until the rights were purchased some years ago... Never really researched any of this, though.

All the original brass had large primer pockets. At changeover time, the large pockets were sleeved, then the small pockets were the norm. I have, and use, all three. The three at top of photo are sleeved. Notice head-stamp variation and positioning.

143621

I could give you the whole story but I would rather go shooting. Just know the brass used to have LR pockets, then sleeved pockets, and now SR pockets.

[palabman]

Very important to limit air space with H110 and 296. It is a little harder to light so you don't want to push it away from flame.
Another thing to watch is recoil boolit pull so you need retention. A boolit that has pulled is like short loading.
Crimp alone will not do it. Had some .454 factory cast loads here once with a full profile crimp, very severe on brass. Never got more then 2 or 3 shots before the guns locked up. Had to tap boolits back in. Every one could have acted like a reduced load.
I loaded a bunch and used a normal roll crimp without any boolit moving.
Make sure you have case tension. You want to keep powder right on the flash hole.
If you do that, there is nothing wrong with the SR primer, it has just made it harder to work book loads. Fill the case more. That little primer has a heck of an amount of "push."
I have always found it is better to reduce push and add fire.

I have read somewhere (could have been on this forum) that adding a taper crimp after the roll crimp will help with this.

[cainttype]

All the original brass had large primer pockets. At changeover time, the large pockets were sleeved, then the small pockets were the norm. I have, and use, all three. The three at top of photo are sleeved. Notice head-stamp variation and positioning.

143621

I could give you the whole story but I would rather go shooting. Just know the brass used to have LR pockets, then sleeved pockets, and now SR pockets.

I don't think I've ever encountered the sleeved type, but I used large primered casings (like your's, NAA headstamps) for quite some time before I received my first shipment of small primered brass. Never had issues with either when following the advice already given here.

[TXGunNut]

Don't have a 454 but I know that 296 in a 45 Colt is a max or near-max proposition only, heavy boolit and heavy roll crimp necessary as well. If I want to plink I'll use Universal (for now) or BP.
I think Lyman's listing of a starting load may have been an error or at least in need of clarification. That's just another reason why a new load is always a research project for me. Multiple manuals and reading or asking about pet loads is always part of that research. Glad you didn't get hurt or damage the gun, OP. My theory is that most revolvers that suffer catastrophic failure do so as a result of an obstructed bore, even tho the shooter either won't admit it or didn't notice. I'm glad you were paying attention and avoided a serious situation.

[44man]

I have read somewhere (could have been on this forum) that adding a taper crimp after the roll crimp will help with this.
That might squeeze down a boolit but the brass could spring back. Even too tight a roll crimp can bulge brass under the crimp and loosen hold.
I use a very moderate roll crimp even in the .475 and .500, just folding to the bottom of the crimp groove. Best to depend on the right expander and make boolits tough enough to withstand seating.

[Tar Heel]

I don't think I've ever encountered the sleeved type, but I used large primered casings (like your's, NAA headstamps) for quite some time before I received my first shipment of small primered brass. Never had issues with either when following the advice already given here.

Sleeved primer pockets were very brief on the market. I don't know for certain how long but me thinketh only to use existing supplies of LR brass for commercial ammo.

[palabman]

I sent the Alaskan back to Ruger to correct a cylinder gap problem. I got it back yesterday and it looks good so I took it to the range today.

I bumped up the charge of H110 to 9 rounds with 27.0 gr and 9 rounds with 27.5 gr.

3 different brands of SRM primers were used with each load:

CCI
R-P
Tula

There were no ignition problems and recoil was very tolerable. The loads with R-P primers chronographed the fastest with CCI 2nd and Tula the slowest. The Tula's will be relegated to AR plinking loads.

[jaydub in wi]

Thanks for the update. I was going to avoid H110 and use IMR4227 or maybe alliant's powder pro 300 mp in my 454. Now I may need to reconsider it

[palabman]

Thanks for the update. I was going to avoid H110 and use IMR4227 or maybe alliant's powder pro 300 mp in my 454. Now I may need to reconsider it

Not a problem. The R-P #7 1/2 Bench Rest primers gave me about 80 fps more than the CCI #450's and a whopping 180 fps over the Tulas.

[leftiye]

31 grs. of Alliant 1680 is very accurate in my gun. 32.0 is a good maximum (and it gives your hand a little bruising). 1600fps as I recall. Jacketed 300 gr bullet. Should be faster, lower pressure with lead. Right out of the old accurate manual.

[Misskimo]

Great info indeed.
Been reloading mine this spring. I chose to stay away from h110 and 296
my bullets ( 250 g ) wasnt built to go past 1500
I been loading 2400 and lite plinking loads with unique
yeh. I cut down 460 brass. 50 rounds. 1500 fps. They will last
also have 100 with small pockets
I do see why the use of the small pistol primer
full loads in the 460 brass with H110. The primer pockets wont last
Smaller pockets can handle that

[David2011]

when dealing with 110/296 you get what you get.
it operates in a narrow window and is full tilt only.
if you want flexibility you need a different powder, I generally use 2400 for the majority of my revolver shooting.
but on the rare occasion I do use H-110 I start right near maximum.
I have seen some loads that give you a 1 grain window to work in and I believe it.

Since this was a 100 discussion I was biting my tongue until I saw your post. I have to agree. 2400 is my go-to for stiff loads in my RBH in .45 Colt. Ignition has never been an issue. The load range is pretty generous as well.

David