Anderton bullet 429215 (renamed 429478) (S&F, Vol 30 1901) [Archive]

ohland

06-28-2015, 12:29 PM

Shooting and Fishing, vol 30, No 3, page 50 2 May 1901

https://books.google.com/books?id=b5cwAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA50&dq=ideal+mfg+285228&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CheQVbOSFIHWoASfyLCICg&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=ideal%20mfg%20285228&f=false

The Anderton bullet is rather a composite affair as a matter of design, and in view of the fine work done with it the story of its conception may be of interest. About a year ago Louis Bell inquired of me as to whether a bullet existed of about 200 grains weight, of .429 diameter, and I could find nothing between the 175 and 256 grain Ideal bullets. He and others had reached the conclusion that the regular bullet was unnecessarily heavy, but that one of about 200 grains was the proper weight. While talking it over one day Tom Anderton took a Russian model bullet cast in a Winchester mould, and cutting down the point held it up, saying, "A bullet made like that would shoot.” I sent this to Mr. Barlow for a price, specifying also that the width of the front band be increased to equal that of the others. The price was satisfactory and five molds were ordered for various shooters. A sample bullet was sent by Mr. Barlow, but was unsatisfactory, as it had square grooves, and for several reasons we preferred round ones, so it was made up as originally intended, and has proved the best Russian model bullet in use. The front band was widened in order that the shell, if crimped, might be turned into the band instead of before it, but it has been found unnecessary to crimp at all when using Peters shells.

Shooting and Fishing, vol 30, No, 2, 25 April 1901 page 31

143078
A New Revolver Bullet
It may interest riflemen to know what bullet Mr. Anderton shot in making his record of 915 points in 100 shots at 50 yards with his Colt New Service revolver and 8 grain charges of Laflin & Rand .45 caliber smokeless powder. The bullet is one designed by him and worked out by J. H. Barlow, of the Ideal Manufacturing Co., of New Haven, Conn., and will be known as the Anderton bullet, numbered 429215. Molds for the bullet will be made by the Ideal company.

Floodgate wrote:
"Incidentally, bullets #358156, #431-/429215 and 431-/429244 are among the few examples I know of where the "cherry number" seems to have deliberately been chosen to reflect the design bullet weight, rather than the usual more-or-less sequential number which was by then running in the high -400s (as in the case of the Thompson .45 caliber design #452490). Cherry numbers -156 and -244 had become available from previously-dropped older designs, but the -215 displaced the existing "Anderton" hemispherical-nosed target bullet #429215, which was then re-numbered as #429478, in the current cherry number sequence of that time! Maybe Thompson insisted on this when he passed the designs on to Lyman."

ohland

06-28-2015, 12:49 PM

Arms & the Man, Vol 65, no. 10, Page 197-198 30 Nov 1918

NOTE: You will note "HFg" mentioned, "HF; Dupont Black powder", I don't know if that would be "FFg", "Fg" would probably be to coarse, "FFFg" way too fine. I have no way to determine the proper grade of "HFg".

https://books.google.com/books?id=DI4wAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA197&dq=ideal+anderton+bullet&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hyGQVY7MKcauogTJ8YeABA&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=ideal%20anderton%20bullet&f=false

Revolvers for Hunting

G.E Cook in the U.S.A. Bulletin

THE proper side arm to carry when in quest of dangerous game, has given me considerable food for thought and inspired many experiments with both Revolvers and Automatic Pistols.

While it is not my province to depreciate the Automatic Pistol, an arm which possesses undoubted merit as a purely military weapon and which the future will undoubtedly bring to a very high state of perfection; nevertheless, my present choice for every day use is the Revolver, either Colt or Smith & Wesson chambered for the 44 S & W Special cartridge, and preferably with a 4" bbl.

Possessing an arm of this type with 6 1/2" bbl. and target sights, and also the same with 4" bbl. and plain sights, a series of experiments were started with various loadings to see if the killing power could be increased over the Standard factory load, etc.

Fortunately some white pine boards 7/8" thick were procured from an old building, these were placed in an appropriate rack, and the regular factory load containing 5 and 1/10th gr. of “Bulls-eye" and 246 gr. conical bullet was tested thereon, and showed a penetration of 7 boards; but was not apparently upset the least particle.

The next load fired was 33 gr. of HF; Dupont Black powder behind 246 grs. regular bullet, this penetrated 9 boards (No. 7 U. M. C. Primers being used in all experiments). In this case the bullet did not upset; but gave a fair criterion of the relative power of the two powders in safe loads.

Being determined to have a bullet that would upset the limit, a sharp shoulder Ideal bullet weighing 240 grs. with 31 grs. of HFg Black behind it was tested and showed 5% boards penetration, giving a most marked upsetage and displacing a great deal of wood in last three boards, leading to the conclusion that it would prove a fearful killer provided the animal was not of uncommon thickness.

The next bullet tested was known as the “Anderton” bullet and weighs 206 grs. back of this was placed two loads, the first being 31 grs. HFg Black which gave 6 1/2 boards pen, the second 35 1/2 gr. HFg Black, giving 8 1/2 boards penetration and also showing considerable shortening of the projectile. It did not recoil uncomfortably and would compare favorably with the 44-40-200. (All of this loading was done with the 44 S & W Special shell and considerable compression of powder was necessary to get above 31 grs. in the shell.)

Next 6 1/2 of "Bulls-eye" behind “Anderton" bullet was tried, giving penetration of 8 boards; but report was so sharp that it was concluded an excessive dose, and on accuracy it also showed some peculiar idiosyncrasies, being capable of shooting in a 4" circle at 20 yards; but at 50 yds. it flew all over a two foot square. Upon reducing it to 5 1/2 grs. it was found accurate at 50 and 100 yds. with trajectory sufficiently flat to stay in the 8" bull with apparently identical sighting with the 4" S & W along the whole 100 yd. range. The conclusion was drawn that 6 1/2 grs. of “Bullseye" made the light “Anderton" bullet strip, although tempered about 16 to 1; that it was comparatively accurate at 20 yds. as even a smooth bore would be at that short range and tearing across the rifling it virtually was one. Dupont No. 2 6 1/2 grs. behind 240 gr. sq. shoulder gave 4 1/2 boards penetration being about what 31 gr. of coarse FG bulk powder gave.

Comparative penetration of the 4 and 6 1/2 inch bbls. came next and 22 grs. Bulk Ideal Powder measure of No. 80 Dupont behind 246 gr. Reg. Bul. gave 9 1/4 for the 6 1/2 and 9 for the 4 inch bbl. with severe kick; but accurate. This was interesting and might give food for thought as why tote such long guns. Experiments with Dupont No. 3 lead to similar conclusions as the 6 1/2 bbl. never had it on the 4 better than a half board with similar loading.

Accuracy test came next, and therein comes the human problem, but all shooting was done strictly off-hand.

First, 6 gr. weight No. 3 Dupont 206 Anderton in 4" shot fine, i.e., 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 8, 8, 8, 9, 10, total 93 at 50 yards. (Time to quit did not try it again except penetration, i.e., 5 1/4 boards); but it was a sweet load to shoot. Ideal Measure was set at 11gr. bulk to throw 6 gr. weight No. 3 Dupont.
Eight grains weight No. 3 Dupont or 15 1/4 bulk behind Anderton was powerful, but wild.

Wishing now to try the 240 gr. slug type versus the 246 conical we started at 50 yards firing one hundred shots on the Standard American Target using full factory black powder cartridges in the 44 S & W 6 1/2" and cleaning barrel every few shots with bristle brush and water, the score was 888. Next fired 100 shots 7 gr. Dupont No. 3 and 246 gr. Regular, score 884 (all shooting within the two hour limit). Next day 50 shots Dupont No. 3 6 1/2 gr. and 240 sharp shoulder, score 449. Twice there were runs of nineteen out of twenty shots in the 8" black; but an unfortunate high six came in each twenty shots. This seems like ample accuracy for a hunting cartridge; but as the long runs were made with a 6 1/2" barrel and target sights except the fluke score of 93 mentioned above, it was concluded to put a 4" Colt with 4 1/2 lbs. pull over the 100 shot course at 50 yards slow fire, which gave a score of 871 with 86 of the shots in the 8" black and three high sixes for the wildest shots the other eleven being sevens.

While the little gun did not tear the ten ring up nevertheless on one run of twenty shots, nine of them were tens, and one run of twenty shots showed nineteen of them in the black. So it was concluded absolutely, that a four inch barrel is practically accurate enough, that its shortness will add vastly to one's quickness if needed in a hurry, that it will be easier to tote and conceal than a long gun, and when properly loaded it would not be far short of many of the old-fashioned rifles that our forefathers were willing to stack up against even a Grizzly Bear with, not to mention that far back they were handicapped in the matter of repeating the dose very quickly.

Now the question comes up, why not load heavier? And it could be done; but you will find with excessive loads, even in the old Colt 45 D. A. and others of more modern vintage, that the shells are driven back out of the chamber against the face of frame and expanded sufficiently to cause difliculty in cocking, without you twist the cylinder by hand, and to render using the piece D. A. impossible after the first or second shot. This trouble was encountered frcquently when using 40 grs. of blk. in the old 45, whereas 35 grs. and 255 of lead worked fine.

Speaking of the old gun brings to mind that a 300 gr. bullet for the 45-90 win would be put throught the sizing die, then loaded on top of as much fine black powder as could be crammed in the shell (and being then an obstreperous boy) some unsuspecting Ethiopion on the farm would be asked to try a shot, welll ? ? ? you should have been there to see that “colt" kick, and hear the peals of laughter that rolled from the broad chests of those that had travelled that road before. The penetration at the front end of this load was never taken; but judged by what happened at the rear, it was very fair. Now bear with me a while longer and excuse the reminiscences of an old man; as somehow that old 45 reminds me that the “nemesi" is apt to watch naughty boys and return the joke unto the joker.

Well it happened thus, being a large kid about the time S. V. smokeless powder was placed on the market in England, and through much effort procuring a can, we proceeded to load the 45 Colt shell full of the pretty golden stuff, ramming a 295 gr, copper patched Winchester bullet down on same and crimping tighter 'n h- we proceed in great haste behind the barn to test her out.

Some canny impulse, or call it kindly if you will, passed through the so called cerebral cortex of that kid and he stuck the gun around a nice large gate post and let her rip, there was a sharp crack, and when the gun came into view, the top of frame had departed hence, the barrel was bent down at a considerable angle, and three chambers were opened wide, on the ground lay the bullet that had passed through the barrel, and the two unexploded cartridges, similarly loaded, were lying in the torn open chambers each side of the one that was fired, for like the fellow that walked between the naughtymobile lights for safety, he had fired the middle cartridge.

Now friends if you doubt the above history, all that can be advised in your case is “to go and do likewise” at least so “The Good Book" says. He who is wise will be admonished however, and heed what B. Franklin says, i. e., “that experience is a good school; but fools learn therein” or some such rot, and if you are still a “Doubting Thomas” and pride yourself on “Being from Missouri” and are determined to dabble in unknown quantities, taking no other man's word as a rule and measure, then go to it Old Sport, and console yourself with the words of Horatius that “To every man upon this Earth death cometh soon or late."