Metric anyone?

[kentuckyshooter]

Hi all. I know all of our measurements are in standard inches but I was wondering if there were folks out there running the metric system for their reloading. Where I work everything is measured in mm so it would not be a big jump for me but all data would have to be converted to make it work. Just was my thoughts. Would love to hear outhers opinions.

[fishhawk]

Well remember what happened when some one didn't use the right numbers with the one mars probe. Switching back and forth to me sounds like a accident waiting to happen. I say stick with the published units. And they WERE rocket scientist's!

[GLL]

I use grams/kilograms when mixing up alloys since I have two very nice metric balances. It is much easier for me to calculate in units of ten to produce the percentages of Pb, Sn, and Sb in an alloy.
I stick with grains for powders though. As fishhawk implies it only takes one misconversion to produce undesirable results !

Jerry

[bangerjim]

I hate the metric system.

All the industrial process products I now sell are sourced from other countries these days (Germany, France, Sweden, Japan, etc) and I am constantly converting back to our good old English measurements!

Best converter I have found:

https://joshmadison.com/convert-for-windows/


banger

[TenTea]

I was ready in 1976...in the fourth grade!

[DonMountain]

I was ready in 1976...in the fourth grade!

I was ready in the 60's in high school! And I still feel comfortable using either set of measurements. But I think you have to go one system or the other and have all of your loading manuals, scales and measuring devices in one system or the other. And not to switch back and forth. The conversion process is where the errors take place. And I am getting too old now to buy all new scales and loading manuals. Does Lyman even print loading manuals using the metric system?

[runfiverun]

nope but LEE does only it's in CC's and nobody gets it.

[bedbugbilly]

I was in college in the very early 70s - at WMU. Western was supposed to be the new "metric learning center". I can remember having to put up listening to Dr. John Lindbeck "preach" on all of it . . . EVERYBODY was going to be using metric and the U.S. was "behind the times". After graduating, I worked in the engineering department of a local Kalamazoo industry . . . we had one product that was licensed through the German company we dealt with. Any drawing I ever did had to be "dual dimensioned" - what a PIA. I always found it interesting that the college was to be the "leader in metrics" . . . but in the machine shop, we were still learning on old WWII "lend/lease" equipment - LaBloind lathes, Bridgeport mills, etc. - ALL set up in English measurement. Now, I'm "old" and retired. Thank goodness I don't have to worry about measuring in metric . . . I hate it and personally . . . consider it "un-American". LOL But then, I sometimes have problems turning my computer on and off too . . . . so I have a lot o respect for those that can "interpret metric". And, oh . . . in those days, we had "slide rules" too . . . I don't know what ever happened to mine but if I still had it, I'd probably be using it for a "straight edge" or put it under the shortest leg of a table to level it out.

[Jack Stanley]

I'd rather not use metric in any method except cash .

Jack

[LuckyDog]

I prefer metric. I know a butt ton of imperial measurements. Oz lbs gal acres fathoms feet inch mile angstroms etc.
I HATE switching back and forth!

It switching / converting units that will get ya. Even switching between feet inches and yards can cause problems.

[Red River Rick]

Years ago, Canada switched over to the metric system to satisify it's European buddies.........

The Automotive industry was the driving force so everyone had to change, weather you liked it or not. And you didn't have much input, only more expenses.

The one incident which was a direct result of mis-calculations, converting imperial to metric, that sticks in my mind the most is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider :shock:

I work with metric dimensions all the time, makes no difference to me, imperial or metric. As long as you know how too converct correctly, you'll be fine. However, make one small error.........:cry:

RRR

[BattleRife]

I do. I started by checking cartridge overall lengths in mm, then extended to measuring group sizes the same way. I find that 0.1mm on COAL and whole millimeters for group size is just about the ideal level of precision for everyday use.

Then I managed to find a scale dealer that had a bunch of Ohaus 5-0-5 metric beam scales he was trying to get rid of, and I bought him out. I have done all my powder measurements in grams since. I also set my Shooting Chrony to measure velocities in m/s. It takes a while to get used to, I spend 20 years listening to and reading the numbers in obsolescent units, but now I am very much to the point that I know that the standard muzzle velocity of a .270 Winchester is 930m/s. I would have to think about it to know the equivalent in fps. I also find it very convenient that my velocity goals for .38 Special, .40 S&W and 9mm are 250, 300 and 350m/s, respectively.

The only application where I haven't wrapped my head around metric is bullet weights. Those .270 bullets I mentioned earlier are still 130 grains in my head.

I will agree you do have to dedicate your operation to either metric or imperial, you don't want to be routinely converting back and forth. When I am starting a new load, I use my manuals to look up what starting load I want in grains, then immediately convert that to grams and write it down. From that point forward all notes and measurements are in grams.


I can remember having to put up listening to Dr. John Lindbeck "preach" on all of it . . . EVERYBODY was going to be using metric and the U.S. was "behind the times".

Everybody is going to be using metric. Even in the US, a big chunk of industry is operating in metric and has been for years. Virtually all research work has been done exclusively in metric for decades. I don't see how anyone could argue that is not the case.

[William Yanda]

"The Automotive industry was the driving force so everyone had to change, weather you liked it or not."

So now I have 2 sets of sockets, fractional and metric, all in 1/4, 3/8, or 1/2 INCH drive.

[kentuckyshooter]

Thanks for the input. I admit i have been reloading in standard measurements except my lee powder measure witch is in cc's. The reason i was curious was all the measuring I do at work is metric. I work for an automotive dicast facility. Shure would be nice not to have to think in 2 difrent systems between home and work

[McFred]

I'm "old" and retired. Thank goodness I don't have to worry about measuring in metric . . . I hate it and personally . . . consider it "un-American".

Better pray your heathcare practitioners don't have the same attitude... Look up "death by decimal" and how it relates to mathematical illiteracy.

[olafhardt]

I retired after years in the chemical manufacturing business. We used many measurment systems. There are gillions of tables of conversion factors. We in shooting have some strange ones like dram equivalents in shotshells,shotgun gauges, 38-40 ammunition, etc. Metric sorta rules labs but it is hard to count cattle in metric. We had a method called dementional analysis which we used to keep this stuff straight. In my career I never ran into a chemist that used it. Most had not heard of it. Lots of engineers don't seem to use it. It is too difficult for me to explain it here. In fact I have no Idea how to use it on a key board. I have to put it on paper. It has helped me for decades.

[robg]

in the uk we use both .I think in imperial. temp we use both, hot in degrees f, when cold degrees c .don't ask ive no idea why.

[JeffinNZ]

I can work in both. Given that most shooting literature is imperial that's what I use for handloading. The rest of time I am metric. It's not unusual for me to mix them. Put 60 litres of petrol in the car that does 35mpg.

[Mal Paso]

"The Automotive industry was the driving force so everyone had to change, weather you liked it or not."

So now I have 2 sets of sockets, fractional and metric, all in 1/4, 3/8, or 1/2 INCH drive.

My last 2 trucks were Metric And Standard depending on which part you were working on.

The METRIC ENGINEERS being True Communists are constantly inventing NEW SIZES. Where the hell did 18mm come from, we already had 17mm and 19mm. Now they are inventing Half Sizes. WHY have a 4.5mm Hex wrench? We should have nipped this in the bud and outlawed metrics.

Metric is a communist plot and should be Systematically Eliminated.

[44man]

Metric is easier but conversion sucks. One or the other, not both. But I am happy with standard. I can live with feet, yards and miles. I do not want KM's on my speedometer. FPS is better them meters per second.
The worst ever is to work on an American car or truck to find metric bolts alongside standard.
I can live with 6.5 or 7mm because I know standard for them and bullets are sold standard.

[dondiego]

You use the metric system every day in your money. How would you like to be making change in farthings, shillings, or pence? The metric system is easier to use and convert accurately. How many miles are in 14376 yards? You would need a calculator. With the metric system you just move the decimal. Easy. It is based on water. One cubic centimeter of water weighs one gram and is equal to one millimeter. Length, weight, and volume. The US made a huge mistake by not converting when the rest of the world did. Even Great Britain, who invented the Imperial system based on certain characteristics of whomever was king at the time converted to the metric system.

[44man]

You use the metric system every day in your money. How would you like to be making change in farthings, shillings, or pence? The metric system is easier to use and convert accurately. How many miles are in 14376 yards? You would need a calculator. With the metric system you just move the decimal. Easy. It is based on water. One cubic centimeter of water weighs one gram and is equal to one millimeter. Length, weight, and volume. The US made a huge mistake by not converting when the rest of the world did. Even Great Britain, who invented the Imperial system based on certain characteristics of whomever was king at the time converted to the metric system.
That is true. it was the conversion that killed it here.

[frnkeore]

My last 2 trucks were Metric And Standard depending on which part you were working on.

The METRIC ENGINEERS being True Communists are constantly inventing NEW SIZES. Where the hell did 18mm come from, we already had 17mm and 19mm. Now they are inventing Half Sizes. WHY have a 4.5mm Hex wrench? We should have nipped this in the bud and outlawed metrics.

Metric is a communist plot and should be Systematically Eliminated.

Metric have sparked your car, almost since there have been cars. From the 1930's to before 1955 almost all cars had 14mm spark plugs and to answer the question "Where the hell did 18mm come from", Ford started using 18mm spark plugs in 1955.

That said, I'm NOT a "metric guy", I think in inches, gallons and grains. I'm a retired machinist and to some extent, I've dealt with metric's all my working life, most ball and roller bearing are metric and I've probably machined thousands of holes for them to fit into. BUT, I do not think metric and will not ever!!! That's the key to using the Metric System, you really need to think it.

Early on, I learned 25.4 (25.4mm = 1") and have never forgotten it. It's made my life so much easier. Grains are a lot more accurate than grams and so, it can make handloading safer.

Frank

[dondiego]

"Grains are a lot more accurate than grams and so, it can make handloading safer. "

......................so that should make milligrams even more safe??????

[frnkeore]

"Grains are a lot more accurate than grams and so, it can make handloading safer. "

......................so that should make milligrams even more safe??????

You have to get to milligrams to even come close to our .1 grain meaurement. I could not direct anyone to a affordable milligram scale, either a ballance or digital.

Regarding millimeters, it's NOT based on CC's or water weight, it's based on the approximate distance from the North Pole to the Equator along the Paris meridian. 1/10,000,000 of that distance. It's been refined since then and is now based on the speed of light.


You use the metric system every day in your money. Our monetary system is based on the Decimal System, not the Metric System. I've always been comfortable with the Decimal System. I can divide 1" by .001, .0001 and .00001 (10 millionths).

Frank

[GLL]

"Grains are a lot more accurate than grams and ................. "

Someone needs to explain this to me ! I may have to dump a few balances ! ;)

Jerry

[Ken in Iowa]

Boy this thread may be on the road to a padlock.

All I can say is that if the U.S. Had adopted the metric system in its infancy, we would all be better off today.

[country gent]

For many years the US was the dominating force in manufacturing and other areas in the world. I have seen the ISO standards in the manufacturering and other really neat sopunding ideas including metric. The ISO is supposedly so that what I measure as 1/2" is the same 1/2" anywhere else in the world. When we were the dominating force in manufacturering why would we want to switgh to another system. WHat we were doing worked for us and was effective. SOme say metrics are more accurate but most dont go beyond 1/32" let alone 1/64" or 1/128". Why confuse everything changing or converting. Metric drawings in shops with standard machines cost alot of time and money as the first thing is the tradesman has to sit down and convert the print to standard so he can make it. Same with reloading sitting to convert data to metric is time consuming.

[frnkeore]

"Grains are a lot more accurate than grams and ................. "

Someone needs to explain this to me ! I may have to dump a few balances ! ;)

Jerry


Jerry,
The premise for that statement, is that 1 grain is 1/15.43 of a gram. No matter how many times that you divide both, equally, the grain will always be a smaller unit, thus more accurate by a ratio of 15.43 to 1.


All I can say is that if the U.S. Had adopted the metric system in its infancy, we would all be better off today.

Ken,
I agree but, it's to late for me. My mind will never be able to distort distance from inch, feet and mile. I can not tell you how many K it is to the store (with out dividing miles X .621) but, I can definity tell you that it's 5 miles.

Some of our shooting would be skewed, too as 200 meters (approx 220 yd) couldn't be directly compared to 200 yds for accuracy.

Most of the drawing that I've machined parts from in these last 20 years are dimensioned in inches, even though many of the numbers would be mm if multipied by 25.4.

Frank

[smokeywolf]

Although I can switch mm & cm with inch measurements and visa-versa, in my head, in seconds. I do have trouble with volumetric measurements. When it comes to distance or spatial measurements, I've no problem thinking in metric.
Worked in the Motion Picture Industry for 35 years. Not too many people have heard of 1.377 film, but everybody has heard of 35 mm film.

[44man]

Jerry,
The premise for that statement, is that 1 grain is 1/15.43 of a gram. No matter how many times that you divide both, equally, the grain will always be a smaller unit, thus more accurate by a ratio of 15.43 to 1.




Ken,
I agree but, it's to late for me. My mind will never be able to distort distance from inch, feet and mile. I can not tell you how many K it is to the store (with out dividing miles X .621) but, I can definity tell you that it's 5 miles.

Some of our shooting would be skewed, too as 200 meters (approx 220 yd) couldn't be directly compared to 200 yds for accuracy.

Most of the drawing that I've machined parts from in these last 20 years are dimensioned in inches, even though many of the numbers would be mm if divided by 25.4.

Frank
There lies the problem. You need to grow up with metric and we did not.
I measure with a rule and it is so easy to see 1-1/16 or anything for the whole length but what are those thousands of metric marks on the other side?

[gwpercle]

I don't like metric.
My engine is 396 cubic inch v-8 , that sounds a whole lot better than 6.4892 litre.

I'm not going to change, they tried in high school but it didn't work then.

[dondiego]

"Regarding millimeters, it's NOT based on CC's or water "

I misspoke - I meant to say that one cubic centimeter of water will equal one milliliter ​in volume, not one millimeter in length.

[Elkins45]

I would be perfectly happy to scrap the English system, except perhaps for my 1936 South Bend lathe that is graduated in inches...although I rarely make things to the degree of precision where it would matter. And I always use a caliper or micrometer to measure anyway.

As a science teacher one of the best things I ever did was split all of my rulers lengthwise and throw away the half graduated in inches. No more measurement errors after that. I also sanded off the inches from the back of my wooden meter sticks.

[dancingbear41]

For all of my schooling and for all of my professional life I have used the metric system. But left to my own devices I can use either metric or imperial, whichever is most convenient, or both together. My reloading is imperial though.

Simon.

[BattleRife]

Shure would be nice not to have to think in 2 difrent systems between home and work

There is one way to make that a reality, and it is as obvious as it is can be. If the USA switched to metric, avoirduppois units would disappear from the planet. They are the one and only holdout that matters.

I can pretty much guarantee the other 210 or so countries are not going to go the other way.

[prs]

A rose is a rose is a rose. My standard and metric wrenches fit the same bolts as long as I select the correct one of either system. 9/16 and 14mm are the same, 12mm and 1/2", 7/16 and 10mm and most others. My impact sockets are marked both ways, same socket with both sizes printed onto them. Half sizes? Well, we have sockets and wrenches in "standard" system in 32nds, 64ths and even finer demarks. Why? Sell more tools. A grain is a grain is a grain in all current weight systems. There is NO SUCH THING as volumetric grains and I do not care what your stupid black powder measure says. ;-)

prs

[kentuckyshooter]

A lot of debate on which system is better but it appears to me that is all aw matter of personal prefrence. I grew up with standard measurements but am gravitating to the metric due to ease of use from work. The one thing that i gave gathered though is pick on and stick with it. Measurment is the piviot point of safety in our hobby and acrite repeatability is esential

[dragon813gt]

A system based on tens is easier to comprehend and perform the math in your head. You do it every day w/ money. The one aspect I don't agree w/ is temperature in Celsius. I know we'd get used to it eventually. But there is marked difference in the Fahrenheit graduations that we can really feel. 26-37C just doesn't seem as hot as 80-100F.

[JeffinNZ]

A system based on tens is easier to comprehend and perform the math in your head.

You know, I used to think the same then one day a US friend pointed out to me that 12 is more evenly divisible than 10. 1,2,3,4 and 6 go evenly into 12. 1,2 and 5 go evenly into 10. Tricky old business isn't it.

My late father was an imperial stalwart. Wouldn't or couldn't try and use metric. Comes down to what you are comfortable with. I'm lucky. Because of dad and my shooting I can work in both imperial and metric. Both have advantages and there is something rather nice and traditional about imperial.

[olafhardt]

For approximating driving type distances I use .06.
5 miles ÷0.6=8.3 KM. 5KM×0.6=3 Miles. Not exactly right but close enough in most cases. Also 6mm×.04=.24 inches,7mm=.28in, 8mm= 0.32 in etc. Again not exact. People who have to make lots of conversions do alot of this in their heads. I have often been told that you just have to move decimal points in metric calculations. It ain't generally true. Something I will say without deriving it is that at standard conditions 29 grams of air occupies 22.4 liters while 29 pounds of air occupies 359 cubic feet. People who do combustion calculations frequently can do this sort of stuff.in their head they same way that people who practice all the time can hit targets.

[Bent Ramrod]

Metric is much easier for calculations, especially for those having to do with science. But the English system is much more amenable to human beings. You don't have to be a king to have knuckles about an inch long, a foot about a foot long, a stride about a yard long and a one drink beer capacity of a pint rather than a liter. And an athlete running a four-minute kilometer wouldn't be working very hard for his medals.

Certain, let us say, "critical" measurements are more comfortably dealt with in units which have had a longer usage than the latest improvement. The explosives industry is probably the most conservative of all of them, because new ideas, even good ones, involve a lot of hazard before they are assimilated and sorted out. Thus the continued use of grains when even the pharmaceutical industry (also necessarily conservative) finally switched over to milligrams. As long as you know your system, it doesn't really matter which one you use, although if you are "boldly going where nobody has gone before" in a research setting, the simplified calculations of metric are best.

There are other holdouts. The Stock Exchange was founded before the U.S. worked out its decimal currency. The unit of exchange was the colonial Spanish 8 Real coin, the legendary "piece of eight." Spain used the octal system rather than the decimal, and when Amalgamated goes up 1-1/8 while Consolidated goes down 2-1/4, all those Wall Street bulls and bears are using it too. Changing to decimal would probably make more sense, but with billions of dollars in play every day, who's going to stick their neck out?

[Lead Fred]

My truck has a 350 cubic inch motor in it, and my rifle is a 30-06
DOnt care, never will. When the UN invades, Ill be doping in yards

[olafhardt]

Bent Ramrod, the stock market changed to digital several years. The fact that people don't know this is illustrative of how important this IS NOT. People who trade stocks, currency, comodities etc. just go plowing ahead. If you want to buy one barrel of oil equivalent in natural gas it helps to know a 42 US gallon barrel of oil will contain 6.6 million BTU's of energy and one cubic foot of natural gas contains 1,000 BTU's so 6,600 cubic feet of gas is equivalent of one barrel of oil. Of course when I was in the oil bidness I never heard of oil exchanges of less than 10,000 barrels (420,000 US gallons ). There is a very large segement of society that just grinds tons of numbers every day. The calculations in litres, meters, joules and euros are just as complicated as those in barrels, feet, BTU's and dollars. How many grains in a bushel of wheat? Who cares, I don't.

[dromia]

Metric is an abomination.

It has crept in to the UK now and I believe it is all they teach the young uns at school nowadays.

I refuse to use it, no-one sent me a letter about going bloody metric no doubt something to do with a few of our corrupt politicians getting rich flogging stuff to europe.

If I need to buy something I always ask for it in the appropriate Imperial units and if I get a blank look I just walk away and go somewhere else.

I spend my time converting from metric back to Imperial so that it makes sense.

Changing currency, measurement systems and such like is just an excuse to hike up prices and rip us off even more.

You buy beer by the pint and potatoes by the stone, cwts have all but disappeared as it is now deemed too heavy to lift???!!!

Metric, bloody Napoleon must be laughing in eternity.

[alamogunr]

Kind of obvious, in reading this thread, why metric never took hold here. Too many not willing to try to change. One even equates it to patriotism to resist the change. I admit that I think in imperial units. In traveling in Europe, I never got used to Celsius. Even experiencing it, I never could tell how cold or hot I should be.

[MBTcustom]

I pretty much agree with fnkeors posts. Metric is no better, it's just a different way of thinking, and anybody who uses the standard system of measurement fully, finds out that while you do need more than a 3rd grade education to understand it, it is much more versatile than the metric system.
I'm sure they will eventually succeed in dumbing down the general intelligence level of America to where metric seems like the only way to keep things straight in the average working man's mind, but fortunately, we still haven't gone there.
I like miles, inches (along with it's fractions, and decimals), pounds, FPS, ect ect ect.
You know something else that's hard to figure? Why in the heck is an hour divided into 60 segments? Why in the world does the marvelous metric system not allow for people who have difficulty telling time? Why not divide the year into 100 parts, and the month into 100 parts, and make a week ten days long? hmmmm?
Since this is something that everyone uses and measures all the time, if such idiocy was proposed, you'd find yourself making the same protests. The only people who would be on board with that would be people who do not care much about time, and the same goes for people who do not care much, nor understand measurement on a basic level.

[Handloader109]

The biggest problem is conversion. If you work with one or the other system things are grand. The problem is totally trying to use bit systems together. Really hard. US should have either mandated change 30 plus years ago when it was the rage, or kept it out. Having both just confuses the average person. I'm an engineer and I are get it wrong occasionally.

[blackthorn]

+1 Dromia!!! Give you less---charge you more! the price on the box don't change, they just put less in it. We got the metric system here courtesy of the idiot Liberals headed by the late (hooray) Trudeou (or however you spell that idiots name). All it did for the common man was cost, cost, cost!

[frnkeore]

+1 Dromia!!! Give you less---charge you more! the price on the box don't change, they just put less in it. We got the metric system here courtesy of the idiot Liberals headed by the late (hooray) Trudeou (or however you spell that idiots name). All it did for the common man was cost, cost, cost!

That's for sure. I'd much rather get a Imperial gallon than a liter of gas when I visit.

Frank

[Bent Ramrod]

I read once that when they rechecked the size of the earth in the 1840's they found that improved methods of measurement showed the earlier values were slightly off. This meant that the meter, which was a bar of platinum alloy in a vault in Paris, was also off, at least off from the absolute that those disciples of Science and Reason, the French Revolutionary Government, had decreed that it was. It had been based on the distance from the Pole to the Equator through Paris (the center of the Universe) as one of the posters here has stated.

Since by then the Revolutionaries had long since guillotined each other, the British engineer, Joseph Whitworth, asked the current French leaders whether they would be willing to grind a little off the end of that bar and make the meter 39 inches exactly. After all, they'd screwed up the measurement in the first place, and it would save a lot of conversion headaches throughout the rest of the world.

And of course, the answer was "Non, non, n'est ce pas!" Not out of contaminated motives like Patriotism or Jingoism or anything. Just that when you're right, you're right, even when you're wrong.

Goodsteel, I seem to recall that the Revolutionaries did have time units that were decimal. The months of the year were of different lengths and had names like Thermidor and such. If it happened, it obviously didn't work. That crazy guy on the TV show Taxi took to coming in on Tuesday and going home for the weekend Thursday. He called it "the new Metric Week." He was right in there with Dromia's observation that it's a great way to offer less at the same or higher cost.

[Walter Laich]

I hate it when you give them 2.56 cm and they take 1.60934 of a km.
.
(this is meant as a joke, humour (Eng spelling), a way to lighten the tension)
.
I can work in both but hate it when I have to use both at the same time.
.
and speaking of Eng measurements...
why are there 12 inches in a foot?
did someone with 12 fingers set the system up?

[frnkeore]

why are there 12 inches in a foot?

A good question but, what I can't figure out, is why the "Frogs" could not, at least round the meter up to 40", after we saved there butt's, twice in WW I & WWII. I'll never figure that one out!!!!!

Frank

[JeffinNZ]

A good question but, what I can't figure out, is why the "Frogs" could not, at least round the meter up to 40", after we saved there butt's, twice in WW I & WWII. I'll never figure that one out!!!!!

Frank

What?

[Bent Ramrod]

The use of base 12 goes back to the Babylonians. 24 hour days, 360 degree circles, the whole enchilada. Maybe one of their High Priests had 12 fingers or something.

[smokeywolf]

I hate it when you give them 2.56 cm and they take 1.60934 of a km.
.
(this is meant as a joke, humour (Eng spelling), a way to lighten the tension)
.
I can work in both but hate it when I have to use both at the same time.
.
and speaking of Eng measurements...
why are there 12 inches in a foot?
did someone with 12 fingers set the system up?

Better make that 2.54 cm.

[BAGTIC]

Metric is not 'communist'. It has been around since the 1700's long before communism existed. Neither metric or imperial is more accurate. A lot of us use metric measures and just don't know it. Resistance was partly due to cost of conversion but in many machine tools it merely requires changing a couple of gear ration. Our US weather data is all collected in metric and is then converted to imperial.

I suspect one reason we have resisted metric is to favor local manufacturing. It make it more expensive for foreign producers to manufacture solely for the US market. OTOH it makes it more expensive for us to compete abroad. Nowadays the potential foreign markets are much larger than the US market so we may be losing more than we are gaining.

[alamogunr]

Metric is not 'communist'. It has been around since the 1700's long before communism existed. Neither metric or imperial is more accurate. A lot of us use metric measures and just don't know it. Resistance was partly due to cost of conversion but in many machine tools it merely requires changing a couple of gear ration. Our US weather data is all collected in metric and is then converted to imperial.

I suspect one reason we have resisted metric is to favor local manufacturing. It make it more expensive for foreign producers to manufacture solely for the US market. OTOH it makes it more expensive for us to compete abroad. Nowadays the potential foreign markets are much larger than the US market so we may be losing more than we are gaining.

Finally! Some reason.

[paul edward]

The US military went metric a long time ago. I grew up on airfields all over the world, where you need to learn how to adapt.

I keep all of my reloading records in grains, inches, feet per second and temperatures in Farenheit.

Thank goodness there are not other widely used measurement systems. Anybody remember the old Russian 3 line and 4 line rifles?

[paul edward]

Dromia mentioned currency. Reminded me that on my first visit to the UK the Pound was divided into 20 shillings each worth 12 pence each. They had goofy names for their coins like farthing, groat, crown, half crown, thrupence and hapenny. Then there was Guinea, worth a pound and a shilling; used to make expensive things sound less expensive. Can you imagine accounting with such a system? No wonder Scrooge & Marley were such grumps.

[smokeywolf]

Dromia mentioned currency. Reminded me that on my first visit to the UK the Pound was divided into 20 shillings each worth 12 pence each. They had goofy names for their coins like farthing, groat, crown, half crown, thrupence and hapenny. Then there was Guinea, worth a pound and a shilling; used to make expensive things sound less expensive. Can you imagine accounting with such a system? No wonder Scrooge & Marley were such grumps.

Don't forget "quid", or is that "squid"

Also, in England, you use a "rubber" to erase a mistake. In the U.S. you use one of those to prevent a mistake.

You know what they say, "two Countries separated by a common language."

[303Guy]

Where the hell did 18mm come from, we already had 17mm and 19mm.That comes from DIN and ISO standards. DIN is German. So much for unity. The Japs use JIS which is where 12mm comes from. Din uses 17mm and 19mm while ISO uses 16mm and 18mm. A total pain!

The metric system was a mistake and has been changed to SI units so now we have three systems. Metric (mgl) is not all that easy to use but SI is very easy and coherent. The litre is an odd one. It's metric while SI uses the cubic meter but we all talk in litres. You just can't buy a cubic meter of milk. Heck one can't hardly even say it! And why is the kilogram a base unit? :groner: The kilogram should have been called the gram but that was already taken. Too late now. Napoleon's boys got it wrong. Actually, there is talk of redefining the kilogram.

I used to use only SI units (essentially metric) for loading but since going online I quickly learned to speak American. Now I use grains. My old Ohaus metric scale doesn't get used other than to check my digital scales (I just change the units on the digital).

The reason for 12 months in a year is to do with the lunar months. There are 12 moons in a year (almost). The 12 hour day and (12 hour night) comes from twelve lunar months in a year (duodecimal system used by the Egyptians) and has been around since around 1500 BC. The 60 minute hour comes from the Mesopotamians who used a base 60 numerical system. The Egyptians took that and used it to divide a circle into 360 degrees.

All of which has absolutely nothing to do with guns and shooting.:wink:

[Bent Ramrod]

Actually, 303Guy, it does. Would it even be worth bragging about a one-MOA group (~one inch at 100 yards) in whatever convoluted, though "rational" and no doubt, very trendy, value system that metric would impose? I would submit that it would be so tedious to enunciate and to listen to that few people would find themselves impressed by the accuracy. (What would that be anyway? Five shots into one cm at 100 meters could be said to group in 1/1000 of a new metric angular measurement for the progressive, up-to-the-minute shooters among us.)

I guess the above figure of value for grouping could be simplified by calling it the Bent, in honor of its "conceptualizer," a fellow who might have to sleep in a box sometimes, but who never thinks inside one:veryconfu. A lot of the apparent facility of the metric system results from the practice of calling a value something else as soon as it gets too unwieldy, i.e., newtons for kg-m/sec/sec and so forth. If you are doing advanced calculations, the base of ten for everything does simplify things somewhat, especially if some of those units cancel out, but ordinary human lives generally are more enhanced with normal human dimensions about them.

i can relate to horsepower, even if it is easier to calculate in joules/sec. There are lots of horses around here, but I've never seen Joule. He'd have to look like The Rock to even get close.

[four70nitro]

I work at a national lab. We (of course) use the metric system/international system of units almost exclusively. A friend of mine spent years running an instrument called the ICP (ion coupled plasma spectroscopy). One of the scientists/engineers that regularly sent him samples never specified how he wanted the results reported. Don would regularly call him and ask "How do you want this reported?" and the reply was alway "I don't care, put it in whatever units you want." Nearly without exception Don would report the results and the scientist would call back later asking for the results in some other variation of units. If Don reported ppm they fellow would want grams/liter or vice-versa. One day Don had had enough! Once again he was told "I don't care, put it in whatever units you want." Don grabbed the CRC handbook off the shelf and went "unit" shopping. After some trial and error and a couple of false starts he ultimately decided to report the results in slugs/ firkin. A couple of days later we were busily working away on the the front face of the hot-cells when the gallery phone rang. Don answered the phone and from clear across the gallery I could hear the scientist on the other end cackling his head off and when he finally regained his self control he said "Alright smart-***, what's the conversion?" I'm completely at home in either system, but I have to admit I do prefer the base-ten simplicity of the metric system.....

[dudel]

You use the metric system every day in your money.

Really? How metric is a quarter? :kidding:

[Freeandcold]

Unit conversions, there's an app for that...

Seriously, in my work I have to deal with both... Sometimes mixed together (awesome!). Just PLEASE specify the units...

[dondiego]

Really? How metric is a quarter? :kidding:

It is 25% of the 100 cent dollar.

[dudel]

It is 25% of the 100 cent dollar.

So much for the power of 10 conversion factors.

[Ken in Iowa]

So much for the power of 10 conversion factors.

I don't get it. :cry:

[olafhardt]

Really? How metric is a quarter? :kidding:
Two bits

[Mal Paso]

That comes from DIN and ISO standards. DIN is German. So much for unity. The Japs use JIS which is where 12mm comes from. Din uses 17mm and 19mm while ISO uses 16mm and 18mm.

Now it all makes sense ............ Not!

Excellent post though!

[dondiego]

So much for the power of 10 conversion factors.

It's easier to determine than 25% of a shilling.........or 25% of a yard.

[BattleRife]

...Would it even be worth bragging about a one-MOA group (~one inch at 100 yards) in whatever convoluted, though "rational" and no doubt, very trendy, value system that metric would impose? ... (What would that be anyway? Five shots into one cm at 100 meters could be said to group in 1/1000 of a new metric angular measurement for the progressive, up-to-the-minute shooters among us.)

i can relate to horsepower, even if it is easier to calculate in joules/sec. There are lots of horses around here, but I've never seen Joule.

Since MOA is neither a metric nor imperial concept but a geometrical one, it's just as easy (and just as valid) expressed in either system:

A 1-MOA group is 1.047" at 100 yards.
A 1-MOA group is 29.1mm at 100m.

See how easy that is?

As to your horsepower, that's even easier. No need to look for Joule every second, just find good old Watts.