H-4198 - what color should it be?

[BrentD]

I was reloading some .38-55s tonight, and I was looking at the bottom of my can of H-4198 and thinking about dumping it into the next can of the same stuff. But when I look in that can it is a different color. The old stuff (from 2013 I think) is gun-metal grey in color. The new stuff (from 2014 I think) is distinctly greenish. Does it matter? Is it something that happens over time? Are different batches of this powder likely to shoot to different points of aim or require new load work ups?

I was under the impression that smokeless was generally very consistent. Is this not so?

For reference, I'm a long-time blackpowder reloader and have come to expect substantial variation between batches of even the best powder. But I thought smokeless was supposed to be much more consistent.

[tinhorn97062]

I have some newish stock of H4198 and it is a gunmetal gray color.

[Whiterabbit]

Cellphone pic, so take it with a grain of salt. Also, your monitor may not be adjusted like a studio monitor will be.

http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/fss/c8d290d52952fc90f27d21cae5035a05

Added goex since you said you were a BP shooter. should be a good reference.

FYI I shoot, reload, then shoot some more. Then buy more powder. So all my stuff should be pretty doggone up-to-date with respect to manufacture date. Including that goex. I don't buy it to sit on it. Anyways, I cannot comment on what older H4198 looks like because I burnt all my old H4198 a LONG time ago.

[Cmm_3940]

I've bought IMR 4198 and H4198 both within the last couple months. The H4198 looks green next to the IMR4198, just like in Whiterabbit's photo. I read somewhere or other (probably here) that the green is the 'raw' color, and that ADI has been putting a grey colorant in their products as a marketing ploy at their US resellers request, because they were afraid US reloaders would find the green color unnatural. Could be a BS anecdotal account, but that's what I heard.

[Stephen Cohen]

The Hodgdon H4198 is in fact made In Australia and is sold here as AR2207. Yes my canister of this powder is also a green colour. I seem to remember ADI telling us that some of its powders had colour changes for some reason, I also remember they said it did not alter the burning rate.

[McFred]

This might be somewhat helpful depending on how picky you're investigations are. Has macro shots for comparison

http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/search.php

[chuckbuster]

I wonder if your older can was actually older than 2013 (Never know how long it was on the shelf at distributor/dealer) and was not of Hodgson's new "Extreme" formula which they market. Same speed/data etc but supposed to be less sensitive to temperature and such.

[BrentD]

thanks guys I was just wondering if the color was indicative of anything important. The dates come from the batch labels, at least as I interpret them. I don't really care if its green orbit grey. I just wanted to shoot in the same.

[ubetcha]

Just passing thought, is IMR 4198 and H4198 the same powder like h110/296?

[Cmm_3940]

Just passing thought, is IMR 4198 and H4198 the same powder like h110/296?

Depends on who you ask. :rolleyes:

[Whiterabbit]

not the same. H has smaller kernels. In my BFR, with my boolits, and my loading practices, with my loads, The powders shoot the same.

But the physical difference alone (color and kernel dimension) is enough to demonstrate that they are very different powders. After trying both, you may discover that within your shooting range that you can load them the same too. Maybe not. "Your Mileage May Vary"

[BrentD]

Are you talking about h110 or the h4198 that I started this conversation with? I'm still interested in why there is a color difference and if these two cans of powder can be mixed in a batch of match ammunition.

[dale2242]

I am going to say the color difference will be the coatings on the powders.
If I read the OP correctly, both cans are H4198. If they are , I would not be afraid to mix them....dale

[SniderBoomer]

Hey this thread reminds me, I pulled some boolits from 32-40 WCF cartridges that were loaded with H4198 and sat unused for about 5 months.

They colour change was huge, the powder went reddish gold - in some, not all.

Re-used, the powder shot just fine and was bang-on for the velocity it should be. I no longer worry.

[JeffinNZ]

Depends on who you ask. :rolleyes:

The MSDS is on the Hodgsob site and tells you who makes the powder and other names it is known by.

[243winxb]

By volume,IMR4198, (not H) there can be as much as 1.1 gr difference in weight. 18.5 gr vs 19.6 gr. with the measure at the same setting. This was older Canada vs Australia. Mix if the same lot number. Other wise, work up a new loading.

[BrentD]

243, I decided not to risk mixing. I got my loads for Raton loaded on the one can and I'll just deal with the end of that can later and not mix with the next can. I still can't get over how different they look and one would think it matters, but perhaps, as SniderB suggests it doesn't. Just not worth the risk right now.

[unique]

Black = tumbled in graphite
Green = not tumbled in graphite
Graphite helps with reducing charge build up and flow.

[Mal Paso]

Are you talking about h110 or the h4198 that I started this conversation with? I'm still interested in why there is a color difference and if these two cans of powder can be mixed in a batch of match ammunition.

I would not expect two different batches of the same powder to perform exactly the same even if the color was the same.

If you are looking for Match Quality treat it as a New Powder or side by side tests against the old.

[Whiterabbit]

I agree, I think the thread direction changed (or should have) when the word match was used. we all have plinker loads where the holes often touch. But to me, match means something else. Where improved performance is expected and the norm, and the scrutiny given to every step of the loading process is enhanced to the point of nauseum or absurdity. No reason to mix powders there.

If I had a load that reliably resulted in holes touching at 100 yards but still, not using match loading practices, and only using the loads for paper punching, steel shooting, and hunting, I'd have no qualms mixing. But that's still not match ammo.

[dale2242]

BTW, The last 2 cans of H4198 were the greenish color....dale

[243winxb]

Colour change of AR2205

10 May 2007
The colour of AR2205 has been made darker to align its appearance with other ADI sporting propellants sold in the US market. The change in colour has not changed the powder's ballistic performance therefore reloading data using AR2205 does not need to be altered. Some get colored just for us in the USA. http://adi-powders.com.au/handloaders/news.asp Look towards bottom of page.

[unique]

A graphite glaze used to coat the powder to improve flow and packing density as well as to reduce static sensitivity and increase conductivity

Reference: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/forensic-science-communications/fsc/april2002/mccord.htm

If you take the black 4198 and 'wash' with a solvent you will end up with green 4198. The graphite will retard ignition but not burn rate on grain basis.

[unique]

OP asked "Are different batches of this powder likely to shoot to different points of aim or require new load work ups?"

I would say maybe as opposed to likely.

I wouldn't mix those two powders together.

[Cmm_3940]

Probably no different than mixing two different lots of any other powder together. Same caveats apply.