ways to fuse a PID

[Walter Laich]

Was wandering aimlessly through HD and went down the electrical isle.
.
got to thinking, why couldn't I wire a 20 amp circuit breaker as my PID fuse. Now remember pretty much the only thing I know about electricity is if you stick a screwdriver in a wall socket you have a 50% chance of getting a shock.
.
would this work or am I missing something (which is usually the case)

[RegisG]

I think the only issues are how to mount it and it takes a lot more space. 20 amps is 20 amps (although there are slow-blow devices, that would not matter here)

Regis


Was wandering aimlessly through HD and went down the electrical isle.
.
got to thinking, why couldn't I wire a 20 amp circuit breaker as my PID fuse. Now remember pretty much the only thing I know about electricity is if you stick a screwdriver in a wall socket you have a 50% chance of getting a shock.
.
would this work or am I missing something (which is usually the case)

[Walter Laich]

I realize this will be overkill and the mounting is still an issue. Each time I build something try to add something new (at least to me).
.
It's all fun and games till someone gets fried!

[joesig]

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but there are circuit breaker (reset in the center) fuse replacements that look an awful lot like a medium base bulb.

I didn't look for a 20A
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cooper-Bussmann-15-Amp-Plug-Type-Circuit-Breaker-BP-MB-15/100348278

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-Porcelain-Keyless-Lamp-Holder-R50-09875-000/100356842

[Handloader109]

Why?


If you are worried about the PID, plug the thing into a 20 amp circuit..... Duuuh I'm guessing that it already is.

[jroc]

Thats what I've wondered all along. I see some guys have 2 fuses in there PID. Why? You plug your Lee, RCBS, Lyman or any other right directly into a socket why does PID need 1 or 2 fuses in it? I built mine without any fuses, maybe I did wrong should I rewire it?

[Beagle333]

I put a fuse in it 'cause the guy who helped me build it (okay, the guy who told me every step) is a EE and he said I needed one. I don't have a degree, so I'm not questioning his. I'm sure he somehow had my/its safety in mind. ;-)

[Walter Laich]

to answer the above questions: mostly because I think it would work and I haven't done this before; my wife calls it playing around.

[popper]

Beagle, tell him to find another occupation. Fuses are for fire protection, not your safety. They are to protect wiring UPSTEAM from overload. Properly ground your equipment and use a GFI receptacle for your safety. Most household breaker circuits are 15 amp, not 20, with magnetic/thermal trippers for 30 sec. overloads. Ie., don't bother with the fuse.

[Mal Paso]

Get a 10 amp panel mount breaker from an electronics supply and put it between the hot line in and the PID/SSR. Only requires a 1/2" hole and would be good for most of the 20 pound pots. Circuit breaker should have no more than 80% load so if you have a bigger heating element size accordingly. .

The reason for 2 fuses might be 1 for the pot and a smaller maybe 1 amp fuse for the PID.

[Beagle333]

I recently was blowing 10A fuses because I was trying to run my 1500W oven on my PID and I wonder what woulda happened if I had tried that without a fuse and had wired my PID with lamp cord inside? (mine is now solid copper 14ga, but what if it wasn't?)

(this thread:)
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?278913-PID-keeps-blowing-fuses

[jroc]

I built mine and used 14 ga stranded wire throughout. I run it on a circuit that is protected by a 15 amp breaker. I assume that is safe. 1500 watts on 120 volts is about 12.5 amps I believe that would blow a 10 amp fuse. As long as I have 14 ga throughout my PID if I were to put a fuse in it I could safely use a 15 amp fuse. That would be marginal for a 1500 watt load though. jroc

[popper]

14 ga. rated load (100%) is 20 amps (safe temperature rating). That will blow a fast blow 10A. (normal) fuse but the C.B. will never notice. I run either my pot or oven heating element only (1200W) with cheap extension cord (cut in half), no problem, from the GFI wall plate and have 80W flourescent light running from the same outlet. If you want a breaker, look for an aircraft C.B. of the correct value (surplus) - use a round hole, not the normal rectangular hole that electronic breakers use.. House wiring used to be 12 ga. but specs were changed to 14 ga. years ago. C.B. specs were left at 15 A. $$ talks.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I used a 10 amp din rail mount "finger safe" mini Circuit Breaker...looks like this.
http://www.alliedelec.com/1/products/110119-button-therm-mag-circuit-breaker-mfr-part-5531082.html
For fire safety and...because that's what I had laying around in my junk box. It isn't' mounted, just held in place by the connecting wires and those wires are tie wrapped to other wires in the box...and actually it was all a snug fit into the box, So nothing can move around anyway.


In my field of work, sometimes I rebuild control panels, sometimes reusing the major components, BUT small parts like these are always replaced with new ones, especially mechanical components, and the old ones are thrown away(many times into my car).

[10x]

If your house wiring is up to code then the PID does not need a fuse.

[gsdelong]

Depends if you want to reset breaker in PID or make the journey to wherever the main panel is if you have a problem. Those of us that like experimenting sometimes blow a breaker.

[bangerjim]

I was digging thru my "collection" of stuff on one of the shelf systems in the garage yesterday looking for a type K tc and found some of those screw-in breakers that might be just what you need. Check out your local stores. They are/were in 5, 10, 15, 20, and 30 amp versions. Pop a breaker....just push the button! They screw into a standard lamp socket.

banger

[popper]

Been a long time ago but IIRC, 2 breakers on the same circuit is illegal for hard wired. Fuse or CB on your equipment ONLY protects the wiring between your device and the upstream CB. May or may not save a trip to the main panel but I see your point. As a side note, most of our elec. casting stuff is NOT double insulated or grounded - probably a good idea to provide one.

[bangerjim]

Having one of those screw-in breakers in a socket in line with your power cord is no different than the internal breakers in power strips or in some higher end equipment.

Simple way to get a "fuse" in there.

[Handloader109]

Guys, you have a breaker in the box on the wall, if you use the right gauge wire,then you don't need another fuse! Where is the fuse on the pot now? Oh, and EE is not an electrician, same as I am not a chemist (CHE). Iet him go design a circuit board.

[bangerjim]

Guys, you have a breaker in the box on the wall, if you use the right gauge wire,then you don't need another fuse! Where is the fuse on the pot now? Oh, and EE is not an electrician, same as I am not a chemist (CHE). Iet him go design a circuit board.

Whatever creates "warm fuzzies". One does not really want a 30 amp in-line breaker on a housse circuit with 20 amp box breaker. Waste of $$ fo the 30!

[Yodogsandman]

A 20A rated circuit breaker in your house electrical entry panel does not protect wiring in your PID rated for 15A.

A panel mounted, barrel fuse holder is easily installed by drilling a 1/2" hole in your PID enclosure wall, pushing it into the hole and snugging it to the enclosure wall with the supplied mounting nut.

If you use stranded 14ga wire in your PID a 15A barrel fuse is more than needed, 10A is probably plenty where the pot will only draw about 6A to 7A.

The fuse shown in most sketches going into the PID protects the PID from an overload going into it and frying it. The second fuse, connected to the output side (pot side), protects your PID from a possible short from your pot/oven/luber or whatever.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?181319-Pid-Controller-Schematic

[Handloader109]

A 20A rated circuit breaker in your house electrical entry panel does not protect wiring in your PID rated for 15A.

A panel mounted, barrel fuse holder is easily installed by drilling a 1/2" hole in your PID enclosure wall, pushing it into the hole and snugging it to the enclosure wall with the supplied mounting nut.

If you use stranded 14ga wire in your PID a 15A barrel fuse is more than needed, 10A is probably plenty where the pot will only draw about 6A to 7A.

The fuse shown in most sketches going into the PID protects the PID from an overload going into it and frying it. The second fuse, connected to the output side (pot side), protects your PID from a possible short from your pot/oven/luber or whatever.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?181319-Pid-Controller-Schematic
REALLY? YOU NOW NEED 2 FUSES? how about none? My power is clean coming into my home. My other electronics haven't crapped out yet, and very few have ANY fuses or breakers.... Get real!

[Walter Laich]

always enjoy the civility shown on this site

[Mal Paso]

always enjoy the civility shown on this site

just blew a fuse is all ;)

There are a lot of really bad Circuit Breakers installed in residential load centers, maybe not yours but I wouldn't be critical of anyone adding protection.

You don't see fuses anymore because they are inside soldered to the board next to the voltage spike protection. No longer "user serviceable" but there.